How can microsoft push 360's hardware to new limits

Hi, I am writing this since their has been recent competition with PS3 which is said to be of limitless potential ( which I am yet to see), because of Blu ray and Cell, Although 360 has been better so far from the technical point of view. But Microsoft could add more to it better. The 2 ideas to get more of 360 hardware is to use the HD-DVD Player and using HDD for gaming support

1.) HD-DVD will help to:

a.) Increase the data transfer speed and also its data transfer speed is higher than that of Blu ray DVD. This will make processing fast, loading time to reduce and surely framerate will also be higher.

b.) Higher amount of data could be stored in the disc and multi layering may even make it store 100 GB of data and also it's easy to produce so this will defiantly give more ease to developers.

2.) HDD support

a.) Will help to speed up the loading time and increase the amount of data that interacts causing faster loading time with better texture , AI and Draw distance also frame rate will increase.

b.) Less strain to developers since game doesn't necessarily needs to be booted from Disc.

These factors will not only make the game look better, but also will reduce the difficulties in making a game. Thus reducing total cost of development and hence more developers for 360.

They can also make developer to optimize for, if the performance is sluggish.

The Hdd support said right now its for MMorpg only and not for other gernes of game. This will be looking like a costly affair in first look but it would be better for a 360 user to buy a HD-DVD and spare some HDD space, then to buy a whole PS3.

Yeah but its pi

the HD-DVD is a problem because noteveryonehas one, redering it impossible for them to play the game which MS knows is a bad idea. Tom1243

There is at least one game now that REQUIRES a HDD - so I'd expect to see that become a growing trend.

HD DVD - internal yeah I think you'll see that at the end of the 360's life cycle as a last hurrah - if it doesn't have a BluRay drive instead. And yes MS has already said they would release a BluRay drive for the 360 if that technology wins during the 360's life cycle.

So - we'll just have to see. Oh and here's a link to the game I know of for sure that requires a HDD already if you enlarge the image you will see right on the front of the packaging that a HDD is required:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Football-Manager-2006-Xbox-360/dp/B000CPZNPU

Seems sony's format war is causing problems all over the place, but having the HDdvd player external was the smartest move on MS behalf, since they can jsut make a BR addon if they need to.

Anyways, they can push the 360 graphics as far as they want, but it is limited to advanced DX9 capabilities, which is partly why PS3 is harder to program for, you have to make sets of instructions to make the effects, where as DX9 has premades sets that you can adjust. MS should have made it DX10 capable, so that games could look the best possible.

Lol I know one Stop making defective ones that over heat and the get three rings of death.

That should be Microsoft top prioty!!!!!!!!

I was considering buying a 360 but when i heard they had a 33% of dying.

and that's why you have a 3 year warranty williamjuly.EnigmaticBeauty

But the 33% three rings of death shouldn't of happen in the first. I give credit for Microsoft credit for doing three waranty but they shouldn't of had this problem because they just wanted a head start on sony!

which is partly why PS3 is harder to program for, you have to make sets of instructions to make the effects, where as DX9 has premades sets that you can adjust. Phazevariance

Hi, I am writing this since their has been recent competition with PS3 which is said to be of limitless potential ( which I am yet to see), because of Blu ray and Cell, Although 360 has been better so far from the technical point of view. But Microsoft could add more to it better. The 2 ideas to get more of 360 hardware is to use the HD-DVD Player and using HDD for gaming support

1.) HD-DVD will help to:

a.) Increase the data transfer speed and also its data transfer speed is higher than that of Blu ray DVD. This will make processing fast, loading time to reduce and surely framerate will also be higher.

b.) Higher amount of data could be stored in the disc and multi layering may even make it store 100 GB of data and also it's easy to produce so this will defiantly give more ease to developers.

2.) HDD support

a.) Will help to speed up the loading time and increase the amount of data that interacts causing faster loading time with better texture , AI and Draw distance also frame rate will increase.

b.) Less strain to developers since game doesn't necessarily needs to be booted from Disc.

These factors will not only make the game look better, but also will reduce the difficulties in making a game. Thus reducing total cost of development and hence more developers for 360.

They can also make developer to optimize for, if the performance is sluggish.

The Hdd support said right now its for MMorpg only and not for other gernes of game. This will be looking like a costly affair in first look but it would be better for a 360 user to buy a HD-DVD and spare some HDD space, then to buy a whole PS3.

Ravi_1900

[QUOTE="EnigmaticBeauty"]and that's why you have a 3 year warranty williamjuly.williamjuly2004

But the 33% three rings of death shouldn't of happen in the first. I give credit for Microsoft credit for doing three waranty but they shouldn't of had this problem because they just wanted a head start on sony!

and that early start paid off pretty well, 360 took the early lead, had a bigger install base and devs wanted to make games for it. Thus the huge library of quality games compared to games like resistence,lair and umm yeah... oh yeah, y0u can watch blu-ray......MS did the right thing. and what ever they messed up on, theyre fixing that with 3 years of warranty.

Yeah you are certainly right that the textures and level data are streamed from background thread, and that no drive is not fast enough to give data directly to the processor and GPU. The main thing they do (drive) is to reduce loading time. But still now in certain games you will see that the games are not divided in areas but the whole map or very large area is opened so when ever you travel the distant object and levels are detailed higher as you go closer to them. So these things are required to be frequently read form the disk and require small loading time, but with higher data transfer speed these could be decreased. Thus the game could get smoother framerate. This is not very common case but is now getting more and more popular. For ex. There where some hiccups in framerate (although very low) in oblivion when you move on horse freely in the jungles and fields.

[QUOTE="Phazevariance"]which is partly why PS3 is harder to program for, you have to make sets of instructions to make the effects, where as DX9 has premades sets that you can adjust. teebeenz

Wrong!!??... No way Phazevariance is right about PS3, yeah it doesn't uses direct x so the utilization of DXSDK (Direct X software development) is not possible, the use of DX is not mainly for better graphics but it is used since it is very easy to develop in DX, as it provides a lot of libraries and these are supported by VC++ and these library also gives a lot of functions that can be used to avoid additional programming. Like there are functions for Matrix operation, transformations, texturing .etc. This makes the process easier for DX than open GL which is platform of PS3. This one and also the newly designed architecture of PS3's cell which is supposed to used for both general purpose codes, graphics and physics also doesn't have much software support in open GL too.

Also 360 could be made to run DX 10 or maybe even higher , since there is single command in DX which checks the hardware for its support, but if the support is required for a unique hardware ( like a console) then the Support of newer DX is granted with some of the features optimized if not available by the hardware. But yeah the game would run on newer version of DX.

[QUOTE="Phazevariance"]which is partly why PS3 is harder to program for, you have to make sets of instructions to make the effects, where as DX9 has premades sets that you can adjust. teebeenz

Wrong!!??... No way Phazevariance is right about PS3, yeah it doesn't uses direct x so the utilization of DXSDK (Direct X software development) is not possible, the use of DX is not mainly for better graphics but it is used since it is very easy to develop in DX, as it provides a lot of libraries and these are supported by VC++ and these library also gives a lot of functions that can be used to avoid additional programming. Like there are functions for Matrix operation, transformations, texturing .etc. This makes the process easier for DX than open GL which is platform of PS3. This one and also the newly designed architecture of PS3's cell which is supposed to used for both general purpose codes, graphics and physics also doesn't have much software support in open GL too.

Also 360 could be made to run DX 10 or maybe even higher , since there is single command in DX which checks the hardware for its support, but if the support is required for a unique hardware ( like a console) then the Support of newer DX is granted with some of the features optimized if not available by the hardware. But yeah the game would run on newer version of DX.

[QUOTE="EnigmaticBeauty"]and that's why you have a 3 year warranty williamjuly.williamjuly2004

But the 33% three rings of death shouldn't of happen in the first. I give credit for Microsoft credit for doing three waranty but they shouldn't of had this problem because they just wanted a head start on sony!

Of course it shouldn't have happened, I'm fairly sure Microsoft didn't want that to happen, cause it's costing them a billion odd dollars to put right. I'm pretty sure Sony didn't want the PS2 to have a constant "Disk Read Error" although Sony did nothing to fix that problem.

These things happen, I can live with the fact I might get the rings of death, cause I'm covered and no matter what way you look at it, the 360 has THE FINEST selection of games this year. Who knows, maybe it will be Sony's turn next year, I'll be buying a PS3 then.

I will go out on a limb here and say that I believe the 360 has pretty much reached its limits. That is not to say that we will not see some great looking/bettergames visually. Here are my thoughts,

1) We will see some really good games coming that take more use of special effects. For example, partical effects, new ways to render lighting exc.

2) We have seen the bump mapping, we have seen the vertex shaders exc exc. One of the top things that makes games really stand out visually is the ability to render high resolution textures. You can't cheat this. It is a space issue with the ram. 360 has 512mb. It is what it is. A way to really get great visuals would be to make some native 1080p games with the 1080p textures. Iimagine with the really limited spacedevelopers would have to be extra talented and patient to get this worked out if even at all. This wouldn't be benefit developers much due to the lack of 1080p sets.

3) Aside from visuals, lets talk about sound and how it effects the games atmosphere. With the new 360's shipping with HDMI it would be nice to see some form of uncompressed PCM sound. Sadly Digital Optical can not carry this information and it has to be passed through HDMI. Obviously, space is an issue due to 360 using DVD. That is not to say they couldn't compress it, then store it in some form on the HD but we all know how this goes. HD are not mandatory so why waste the resources?