Microsoft messed up in not making the Hard Drive standard.

Seriously, it was a big mistake, simply because of the fact that because it's not standard, developers can't make games that utilize it to it's full potential.  I mean, yea, you'd have to be an idiot to purchase a 360 without a hard drive, but since the option is there, developers can't take advantage of it.

 Take GTA, they said two of the things that are slowing down development are A. disk space ( I won't get into that), and B. They can't take advantage of the hard drive as much as they'd like on the 360 version.

 But that's just me.  I just thought it was a mistake from day one to not have the hard drive standard.  I won't get into the disk space thing.  I can't believe Blue Dragon is 3 disk long.  That's crap.  Knowing it's a *** rpg, it's probably filled with about 25 hours of CG cutscenes, when these days consoles are fully capable of comparable graphics with the game's engine.

But that's a whole nother subject. 

[QUOTE="mother_farter"]why wouldnt they be able to use the full potential of the 360 just because 20% of the people who own 360's dont have a HDD

I own the core system with a 64mb card is that so bad!!!!!!

[QUOTE="mother_farter"]why wouldnt they be able to use the full potential of the 360 just because 20% of the people who own 360's dont have a HDD

I own the core system with a 64mb card is that so bad!!!!!!

Pest-619

yes im afraid it is..

....because 20% of gamers don't have it.  How bad would that look if there was a game that, even a small fraction of 360 owners couldn't play, because of the package they bought.  Pretty bad.  They wouldn't do that, and apparently, they aren't doing that, because that very problem is slowing down development apparently for GTA IV.   BlueTimber

yeah i just understand how it could be slowing down production for a game just because some people dont have HDD that dosent make sense.

[QUOTE="BlueTimber"]....because 20% of gamers don't have it. How bad would that look if there was a game that, even a small fraction of 360 owners couldn't play, because of the package they bought. Pretty bad. They wouldn't do that, and apparently, they aren't doing that, because that very problem is slowing down development apparently for GTA IV. mother_farter

yeah i just understand how it could be slowing down production for a game just because some people dont have HDD that dosent make sense.

It sorta does. Extremely large games liek that, that are open ended take a lot of loading. To make it actually playable, many times parts of the game are storede onto the hard drive either temporarily or permenantly, so that it will run smooth, and will not hitch up like a bad skirt.

So they now have to find a way to make it run well without using a hard drive. ITs going to take some mroe time. 

Well it seems that GTA is a pretty advanced game right?  And so my guess is they want to make the ps3 and 360 versions as good as possible right?  But when one platform lacks the capabilities of another platform, they can't just ignore it and keep working on the other.  So It seems while the ps3 version is waiting for more, they have to slow down and work a way around the problems on the 360 version due to hardware limitations.BlueTimber

i think it would be smart just to design the game as if everyone had a HDD you know? so this problem wouldnt happen then. because more than half of the people who purchase a 360 get a premium and have xbox live. if the other people want to get the full experience then they should pay the extra 100 bucks..there no point of buying a core and wasting your money getting memory cards. you know how fast a 64 mb mem. card can fill up?

heres the answer, who the hell who just wants to play the game and not be botherd about spacePest-619

well who the hell isnt going to be able to play that game when he runs out of space because they only have 64 mb? you going to go out and spend another 30 on a memory card? might aswell just buy an HDD

[QUOTE="Pest-619"]heres the answer, who the hell who just wants to play the game and not be botherd about spacemother_farter

well who the hell isnt going to be able to play that game when he runs out of space because they only have 64 mb? you going to go out and spend another 30 on a memory card? might aswell just buy an HDD

you on live?

[QUOTE="mother_farter"]

[QUOTE="Pest-619"]heres the answer, who the hell who just wants to play the game and not be botherd about spacePest-619

well who the hell isnt going to be able to play that game when he runs out of space because they only have 64 mb? you going to go out and spend another 30 on a memory card? might aswell just buy an HDD

you on live?

yes sir i am..but thats not the only reason why you should purchase a HDD

well i got a girlfriend who is 6 months pregnant, and dont make much income, well wha i thought without bein on xbox live just to play a game now and then was okay in my booksPest-619

It seems he has enough issues.... 

MS has stated that all games will be based on the Core system so that all owners can play them.  I too wish that hard drives were able to be a requirement for some games.  The easy solution is for MS to release a smaller hard-drive.  They now have a larger one available since the release of the Elite - so for the gamers on an extremely tight budget they should release a small option - say an 8 gig for $30 or $40.  While for most of us this option wouldn't make sense they could offer this cheap upgrade path to Core owners and then plainly label some games with a statement on the fron of the packaging making it clear that "This game requires a hard drive" - or something to that effect.

I do think developers should be able to base their games on the hard drive versions of the console - but MS should also offer an extremely affordable upgrade path for Core owners.  Then in future versions of the Core they could just add in that 8 gig HD under a new sku so that ALL 360's had some form of HD.

:)

MS has stated that all games will be based on the Core system so that all owners can play them.  I too wish that hard drives were able to be a requirement for some games.  The easy solution is for MS to release a smaller hard-drive.  They now have a larger one available since the release of the Elite - so for the gamers on an extremely tight budget they should release a small option - say an 8 gig for $30 or $40.  While for most of us this option wouldn't make sense they could offer this cheap upgrade path to Core owners and then plainly label some games with a statement on the fron of the packaging making it clear that "This game requires a hard drive" - or something to that effect.

I do think developers should be able to base their games on the hard drive versions of the console - but MS should also offer an extremely affordable upgrade path for Core owners.  Then in future versions of the Core they could just add in that 8 gig HD under a new sku so that ALL 360's had some form of HD.

:)

DataDream

great idea..if MS were smart then they would do that

MS has stated that all games will be based on the Core system so that all owners can play them. I too wish that hard drives were able to be a requirement for some games. The easy solution is for MS to release a smaller hard-drive. They now have a larger one available since the release of the Elite - so for the gamers on an extremely tight budget they should release a small option - say an 8 gig for $30 or $40. While for most of us this option wouldn't make sense they could offer this cheap upgrade path to Core owners and then plainly label some games with a statement on the fron of the packaging making it clear that "This game requires a hard drive" - or something to that effect.

I do think developers should be able to base their games on the hard drive versions of the console - but MS should also offer an extremely affordable upgrade path for Core owners. Then in future versions of the Core they could just add in that 8 gig HD under a new sku so that ALL 360's had some form of HD.

:)

DataDream

even then... MS could not guarantee that those lacking the 20GB HDD would buy a smaller HDD.  this mistake is just something that developers and gamers will have to live with.  it is impossible to fix, unless MS actually gives them away for free. 

to the TC... a standard HDD would not fix the fact that Blue Dragon is on 3 disks, unless they made it so that the majority of the game was on the HDD (which no console game ever does, they just add a small portion of the game's files in order to increase loading speeds).

the fact that Blue Dragon is on 3 DVDs is due to MS's choice to stick with the last gen disk format, DVD... instead of picking HDDVD or Blu Ray as a standard gaming disk format. 

[QUOTE="mother_farter"]why wouldnt they be able to use the full potential of the 360 just because 20% of the people who own 360's dont have a HDD

I own the core system with a 64mb card is that so bad!!!!!!

Pest-619

not really, but for 50 bucks more u coulda had a wireless controller and 20 gig hard drive. now thats bad...

I fail to see how more discs will affect how good the game is.....do I really need to bring up Final Fantasy 7 and 8...Supermanunbound

for RPGs like FF7 and BD, multiple disks is not a problem at all.  but for free roaming games, where all the content of the game (i.e. the city, planes, cars, etc) are available to the player at any given time... a multiple DVD game would not work at all. 

Does the lack of a hard drive genuinely impact any of the games? Performance-wise?tomarlyn

doesn't the HDD just act as a quick storage access area to speed up load times? 

[QUOTE="DataDream"]

MS has stated that all games will be based on the Core system so that all owners can play them. I too wish that hard drives were able to be a requirement for some games. The easy solution is for MS to release a smaller hard-drive. They now have a larger one available since the release of the Elite - so for the gamers on an extremely tight budget they should release a small option - say an 8 gig for $30 or $40. While for most of us this option wouldn't make sense they could offer this cheap upgrade path to Core owners and then plainly label some games with a statement on the fron of the packaging making it clear that "This game requires a hard drive" - or something to that effect.

I do think developers should be able to base their games on the hard drive versions of the console - but MS should also offer an extremely affordable upgrade path for Core owners. Then in future versions of the Core they could just add in that 8 gig HD under a new sku so that ALL 360's had some form of HD.

:)

c0mplex

even then... MS could not guarantee that those lacking the 20GB HDD would buy a smaller HDD.  this mistake is just something that developers and gamers will have to live with.  it is impossible to fix, unless MS actually gives them away for free. 

:)

You're right and maybe that's exactly what they should do - if you take my 8 gb hard drive idea - they should change the sku on new Cores to include it as I said and offer existing Core owners who have registered their consoles, one for free.  They would actually make money in the long run by doing this I believe as it would allow developers the ability to produce some of these games quicker and easier bringing over all production costs of the games down.  And lets face it the cost of an 8 gb hard drive to MS in mass quantities is probably in the neiborhood of $15 to $20 - they should be able to eat that for the 20% of owners with Cores to make the vast majority of us happy who own Elites and Premiums.

i don't see how releasing free stuff would be profittable for MS.  MS made a few poor choices that might not go well in the future.  Itagaki has ranted about the limited space that DVDs offer, and R* has said that the lack of an HDD is causing them problems in making GTAIV...

but in the end, Itagaki is still making games for the X360 (DOA4, DOAXB2, and soon NG2), and GTAIV will come out on the X360 (which R* said that the quality between the PS3 and X360 will be similar)... so there is no need for MS to do something for free.  they are the lead marketshare holder right now, with the quickly rising Wii being a non-factor since developers will never choose the Wii as their lead SKU (they will just made exclusive games for it and keep next gen platforms like the X360, PS3, and PC in a totally different group).  seeing how MS has acted in the past with their DLC content, and just the general way they dominate the OS market... MS will just tell developers and gamers to live with it because they hold the majority right now. 

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]Does the lack of a hard drive genuinely impact any of the games? Performance-wise?c0mplex

doesn't the HDD just act as a quick storage access area to speed up load times? 

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]Does the lack of a hard drive genuinely impact any of the games? Performance-wise?c0mplex

doesn't the HDD just act as a quick storage access area to speed up load times?

[QUOTE="c0mplex"]

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]Does the lack of a hard drive genuinely impact any of the games? Performance-wise?munsoned

doesn't the HDD just act as a quick storage access area to speed up load times?

but X360 games optionally use the HDD to store some content into the CACHE for faster load times.

Blue Dragon is 3 disks?  I remember MS public relations telling everyone that the games would only be in one disc...

Microsoft didn't mess up, Sony messed up for making it standard. What happens when you run out of space? The problem is choice, but so is the solution. 

i don't see how releasing free stuff would be profittable for MS.  MS made a few poor choices that might not go well in the future.  Itagaki has ranted about the limited space that DVDs offer, and R* has said that the lack of an HDD is causing them problems in making GTAIV...

but in the end, Itagaki is still making games for the X360 (DOA4, DOAXB2, and soon NG2), and GTAIV will come out on the X360 (which R* said that the quality between the PS3 and X360 will be similar)... so there is no need for MS to do something for free.  they are the lead marketshare holder right now, with the quickly rising Wii being a non-factor since developers will never choose the Wii as their lead SKU (they will just made exclusive games for it and keep next gen platforms like the X360, PS3, and PC in a totally different group).  seeing how MS has acted in the past with their DLC content, and just the general way they dominate the OS market... MS will just tell developers and gamers to live with it because they hold the majority right now. 

c0mplex

It would be more profitable as I said - yes they would have to initially eat the $15 to $20 cost to them for giving them to Core owners - but by doing so it would lower the producction time on games like GTA IV - lowering production times would save ALLOT more money than what they would lose by giving away a $20 item.  $20 is approximately 15 minutes of one programmers paid time.  So yes - they would actually be more profitable in the long run by getting small hard drives to all the Core owners even if it were for free because the amount of time they would have to spend on development would be drastically reduced.  Even when dealing with independant developers such as RockStar - it would save time and time is money for MS, trust me there time is worth ALLOT more than the $20 per Core they would give up - especially when the Core has the least amount of market share between the three 360 iterations.

:)

Seriously, it was a big mistake, simply because of the fact that because it's not standard, developers can't make games that utilize it to it's full potential. I mean, yea, you'd have to be an idiot to purchase a 360 without a hard drive, but since the option is there, developers can't take advantage of it.

Take GTA, they said two of the things that are slowing down development are A. disk space ( I won't get into that), and B. They can't take advantage of the hard drive as much as they'd like on the 360 version.

But that's just me. I just thought it was a mistake from day one to not have the hard drive standard. I won't get into the disk space thing. I can't believe Blue Dragon is 3 disk long. That's crap. Knowing it's a *** rpg, it's probably filled with about 25 hours of CG cutscenes, when these days consoles are fully capable of comparable graphics with the game's engine.

 

But that's a whole nother subject.

BlueTimber

MAn dont believe that crap its such BS.  First of all, not having a Hard drive would not slow down the production of the game, though it might hold back its potential.  Even so, what would they POSSIBLY need it for other than extra content, or being able to use your own soundtrack?  Oblivion was positively MASSIVE with great graphics (im sure better than what GTA IV will provide) and a completely rich gaming experience.  Did you hear them whining about not having the HDD be standard?  No.  

What can GTA IV have that Oblivion DID NOT have?  Untill you figure out an answer to that question, dont believe what rockstar is saying.  We all know that Rockstar's loyaty lies with Sony.  

The developers at times have to choose sides...and when they do they can say some pretty ridiculous stuff.  Why doesnt Rockstar go into specifics, and actually LAY OUT what we are missing because of the 360?  They went so far as to to point a finger...if you are gonna do that you HAVE to back it up.  They didnt.  

[QUOTE="BlueTimber"]

Seriously, it was a big mistake, simply because of the fact that because it's not standard, developers can't make games that utilize it to it's full potential. I mean, yea, you'd have to be an idiot to purchase a 360 without a hard drive, but since the option is there, developers can't take advantage of it.

Take GTA, they said two of the things that are slowing down development are A. disk space ( I won't get into that), and B. They can't take advantage of the hard drive as much as they'd like on the 360 version.

But that's just me. I just thought it was a mistake from day one to not have the hard drive standard. I won't get into the disk space thing. I can't believe Blue Dragon is 3 disk long. That's crap. Knowing it's a *** rpg, it's probably filled with about 25 hours of CG cutscenes, when these days consoles are fully capable of comparable graphics with the game's engine.

 

But that's a whole nother subject.

menduco76

MAn dont believe that crap its such BS.  First of all, not having a Hard drive would not slow down the production of the game, though it might hold back its potential.  Even so, what would they POSSIBLY need it for other than extra content, or being able to use your own soundtrack?  Oblivion was positively MASSIVE with great graphics (im sure better than what GTA IV will provide) and a completely rich gaming experience.  Did you hear them whining about not having the HDD be standard?  No.  

What can GTA IV have that Oblivion DID NOT have?  Untill you figure out an answer to that question, dont believe what rockstar is saying.  We all know that Rockstar's loyaty lies with Sony.  

The developers at times have to choose sides...and when they do they can say some pretty ridiculous stuff.  Why doesnt Rockstar go into specifics, and actually LAY OUT what we are missing because of the 360?  They went so far as to to point a finger...if you are gonna do that you HAVE to back it up.  They didnt.  

Actually not having a hard drive is exactly what has slowed down production on GTA IV - if you read ANY of the recent interviews with the developer that's what is causing the difficulty for them is trying to get the game to work well with no hard drive and without using multiple discs.  So yes no hard drive does slow down production - that is at least according to the developers it does.

[QUOTE="menduco76"][QUOTE="BlueTimber"]

Seriously, it was a big mistake, simply because of the fact that because it's not standard, developers can't make games that utilize it to it's full potential. I mean, yea, you'd have to be an idiot to purchase a 360 without a hard drive, but since the option is there, developers can't take advantage of it.

Take GTA, they said two of the things that are slowing down development are A. disk space ( I won't get into that), and B. They can't take advantage of the hard drive as much as they'd like on the 360 version.

But that's just me. I just thought it was a mistake from day one to not have the hard drive standard. I won't get into the disk space thing. I can't believe Blue Dragon is 3 disk long. That's crap. Knowing it's a *** rpg, it's probably filled with about 25 hours of CG cutscenes, when these days consoles are fully capable of comparable graphics with the game's engine.

 

But that's a whole nother subject.

DataDream

MAn dont believe that crap its such BS.  First of all, not having a Hard drive would not slow down the production of the game, though it might hold back its potential.  Even so, what would they POSSIBLY need it for other than extra content, or being able to use your own soundtrack?  Oblivion was positively MASSIVE with great graphics (im sure better than what GTA IV will provide) and a completely rich gaming experience.  Did you hear them whining about not having the HDD be standard?  No.  

What can GTA IV have that Oblivion DID NOT have?  Untill you figure out an answer to that question, dont believe what rockstar is saying.  We all know that Rockstar's loyaty lies with Sony.  

The developers at times have to choose sides...and when they do they can say some pretty ridiculous stuff.  Why doesnt Rockstar go into specifics, and actually LAY OUT what we are missing because of the 360?  They went so far as to to point a finger...if you are gonna do that you HAVE to back it up.  They didnt.  

Actually not having a hard drive is exactly what has slowed down production on GTA IV - if you read ANY of the recent interviews with the developer that's what is causing the difficulty for them is trying to get the game to work well with no hard drive and without using multiple discs.  So yes no hard drive does slow down production - that is at least according to the developers it does.

Ok - man sorry - I jumped the gun, you make a very good point about Oblivion.  If they could do it for that game without a HD then they should be able to do it for GTA.  Good point - I guess Rockstar is just giving excuses for their delay of the game.

:)

Football manager 2006 and 2007 have both needed a hard drive to be able to play, so i hope that they do the same thing that these games have done and just mark on the box that a hard drive is required.

Football manager 2006 and 2007 have both needed a hard drive to be able to play, so i hope that they do the same thing that these games have done and just mark on the box that a hard drive is required.

 

willpd123

WOW - good catch.  I haven't even seen that game and it's the first time I've seen a HD required sign.  Cool - so I hope MS is reconsidering their requirements then.  :)

[QUOTE="willpd123"]

Football manager 2006 and 2007 have both needed a hard drive to be able to play, so i hope that they do the same thing that these games have done and just mark on the box that a hard drive is required.

DataDream

WOW - good catch. I haven't even seen that game and it's the first time I've seen a HD required sign. Cool - so I hope MS is reconsidering their requirements then. :)

lol... i would like to see the sales figures for that game. 

[QUOTE="DataDream"][QUOTE="willpd123"]

Football manager 2006 and 2007 have both needed a hard drive to be able to play, so i hope that they do the same thing that these games have done and just mark on the box that a hard drive is required.

c0mplex

WOW - good catch. I haven't even seen that game and it's the first time I've seen a HD required sign. Cool - so I hope MS is reconsidering their requirements then. :)

lol... i would like to see the sales figures for that game. 

:)

Yeah - it's obviously a UK released game as it's a "Football" game that is European football (soccer) - so I don't think it ever made here to the US.  Still cool though that it has the hard drive requirement right on the front of the box - that's all they need to do.  PS fo all you UK friends - I am a huge "Soccer" fan - so don't freak out on me.  :)

[QUOTE="c0mplex"][QUOTE="DataDream"][QUOTE="willpd123"]

Football manager 2006 and 2007 have both needed a hard drive to be able to play, so i hope that they do the same thing that these games have done and just mark on the box that a hard drive is required.

DataDream

WOW - good catch. I haven't even seen that game and it's the first time I've seen a HD required sign. Cool - so I hope MS is reconsidering their requirements then. :)

lol... i would like to see the sales figures for that game.

:)

Yeah - it's obviously a UK released game as it's a "Football" game that is European football (soccer) - so I don't think it ever made here to the US. Still cool though that it has the hard drive requirement right on the front of the box - that's all they need to do. PS fo all you UK friends - I am a huge "Soccer" fan - so don't freak out on me. :)

It isn't just Europe it is just called something different in North America link

edit:sorry i think my link may just send you to football manager 2007, but if you type in worldwide soccer manager 2007 on gamespot's search it will come up with what i meant to have linked 

[QUOTE="DataDream"][QUOTE="c0mplex"][QUOTE="DataDream"][QUOTE="willpd123"]

Football manager 2006 and 2007 have both needed a hard drive to be able to play, so i hope that they do the same thing that these games have done and just mark on the box that a hard drive is required.

willpd123

WOW - good catch. I haven't even seen that game and it's the first time I've seen a HD required sign. Cool - so I hope MS is reconsidering their requirements then. :)

lol... i would like to see the sales figures for that game.

:)

Yeah - it's obviously a UK released game as it's a "Football" game that is European football (soccer) - so I don't think it ever made here to the US. Still cool though that it has the hard drive requirement right on the front of the box - that's all they need to do. PS fo all you UK friends - I am a huge "Soccer" fan - so don't freak out on me. :)

It isn't just Europe it is just called something different in North America link

edit:sorry i think my link may just send you to football manager 2007, but if you type in worldwide soccer manager 2007 on gamespot's search it will come up with what i meant to have linked 

Interesting - you're right - it just hasn't been released yet in the U.S.

Looks like it will be called "Worldwide Soccer Manager 2007" and has a TBA release date.  Surprised there hasn't been any talk about it yet - looks like a good game and scored a 9.1 on GS.  Cool - I'll have to check it out.  :)

[QUOTE="DataDream"][QUOTE="willpd123"]

Football manager 2006 and 2007 have both needed a hard drive to be able to play, so i hope that they do the same thing that these games have done and just mark on the box that a hard drive is required.

c0mplex

WOW - good catch. I haven't even seen that game and it's the first time I've seen a HD required sign. Cool - so I hope MS is reconsidering their requirements then. :)

lol... i would like to see the sales figures for that game.

I actually think it sells quite well over here in the UK not sure about the rest of Europe, although the PC version will sell a lot more than the 360 version (i would have thought). 

[QUOTE="DataDream"][QUOTE="willpd123"]

Football manager 2006 and 2007 have both needed a hard drive to be able to play, so i hope that they do the same thing that these games have done and just mark on the box that a hard drive is required.

c0mplex

WOW - good catch. I haven't even seen that game and it's the first time I've seen a HD required sign. Cool - so I hope MS is reconsidering their requirements then. :)

lol... i would like to see the sales figures for that game.

[QUOTE="willpd123"][QUOTE="DataDream"][QUOTE="c0mplex"][QUOTE="DataDream"][QUOTE="willpd123"]

Football manager 2006 and 2007 have both needed a hard drive to be able to play, so i hope that they do the same thing that these games have done and just mark on the box that a hard drive is required.

DataDream

WOW - good catch. I haven't even seen that game and it's the first time I've seen a HD required sign. Cool - so I hope MS is reconsidering their requirements then. :)

lol... i would like to see the sales figures for that game.

:)

Yeah - it's obviously a UK released game as it's a "Football" game that is European football (soccer) - so I don't think it ever made here to the US. Still cool though that it has the hard drive requirement right on the front of the box - that's all they need to do. PS fo all you UK friends - I am a huge "Soccer" fan - so don't freak out on me. :)

It isn't just Europe it is just called something different in North America link

edit:sorry i think my link may just send you to football manager 2007, but if you type in worldwide soccer manager 2007 on gamespot's search it will come up with what i meant to have linked

Interesting - you're right - it just hasn't been released yet in the U.S.

Looks like it will be called "Worldwide Soccer Manager 2007" and has a TBA release date. Surprised there hasn't been any talk about it yet - looks like a good game and scored a 9.1 on GS. Cool - I'll have to check it out. :)