*THIS* is why we need competition

MS was just trying to move the industry forward. It wasn't Sony who did it, it was all the entitled nerds on the internet.percech

[QUOTE="percech"]MS was just trying to move the industry forward. It wasn't Sony who did it, it was all the entitled nerds on the internet.Djmaster214

Microshaft wasn't "trying to move the industry forward" they were trying to be massive douchebags and clamp down on every damn level of ownership possible. How in the hell would that have been a good thing for the people? 

I could give two shits about how microsoft feels about anything, but I was pretty damn concerned (or annoyed rather) when I saw the crap they were about to pull, and the worst part is so many of you were right behind those shitwads...that's disappointing.

To the morons who really thought this was "moving us into the future" angryjoe has 2 choice words for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcXdWRJ-xb4

[QUOTE="Djmaster214"][QUOTE="percech"]MS was just trying to move the industry forward. It wasn't Sony who did it, it was all the entitled nerds on the internet.Gatman32

1. Going all digital is suicide. First of all, Imagine having to download something like Final Fantasy on all digital, it would eat up at least 40-50 gigs. It would take me days to download that on my cable connection. 

2, while I have interent now at my parents house, I am getting married and moving out in 1 year, I don't know if I will have interent. It's too expensive to live directly in town for us, and out back a ways interent starts to really degrade into very poor dsl and dialup. I don't want it to become a paper weight because I wouldn't be able to get good internet. And besides, SP player games are my bread and butter, i'm not much into MP.

3. THE GAME PRICES WILL NOT DROP with all digital. It hasn't this gen, they will cost just as much as retail games at launch. And as for sales, amazon has tons of sales all the time on retail games.

I am very glad they were convinced to remove these DRM features, because now I might actually buy one and go the trifecta route again this gen. I was gonna miss Forza 5, but now I might not have too.

Also before ANYONE mentions The cloud. The cloud is still there and it will operate exactly how it can as a cloud, storing game saves and transfering small data. The whole extra power thing was BS, for one, if you needed the cloud to help render and calculate a game, why do you only have to connect online once every 24 hours? Always online 24/7 would have made much more sense to argue that, but if you can be offline for 24 hours a time, you aren't connected to the cloud to help the rendering, which the game would need in order to properly function. That was just PR trying to make it not seem like what it really was, DRM.

And as far as buying everything digital, you can, I personally will buy everything on Disc. And we all know the family share plan is not what most of SW seems to think it is. 10 friends/family members being able to play your games? I have a feeling that it has to be limited in one way or another, because they would loose out on more sales from that vs. blocking used games.

If Sony didn't exist, MS would have dictated how the next generation was run, and they would win. To be honest, we'd either have to shell out for the XBone or stay with 2005 technology. Only because of the PS4 did MS fear losing market share and changed their mostly-universally-hated policies. So while I'm not a Playstation fan, I definitely don't want it going away (until there's a good competitor in place). Just wanted to say that.scooter2407

Microshaft wasn't "trying to move the industry forward" they were trying to be massive douchebags and clamp down on every damn level of ownership possible. How in the hell would that have been a good thing for the people? 

I could give two shits about how microsoft feels about anything, but I was pretty damn concerned (or annoyed rather) when I saw the crap they were about to pull, and the worst part is so many of you were right behind those shitwads...that's disappointing.

 

To the morons who really thought this was "moving us into the future" angryjoe has 2 choice words for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcXdWRJ-xb4

jer_1

[QUOTE="jer_1"]

Microshaft wasn't "trying to move the industry forward" they were trying to be massive douchebags and clamp down on every damn level of ownership possible. How in the hell would that have been a good thing for the people? 

I could give two shits about how microsoft feels about anything, but I was pretty damn concerned (or annoyed rather) when I saw the crap they were about to pull, and the worst part is so many of you were right behind those shitwads...that's disappointing.

 

To the morons who really thought this was "moving us into the future" angryjoe has 2 choice words for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcXdWRJ-xb4

firefox59

I can not believe what i have just read. you realise with out DRM restrictions you can still download games yh? or are you just an idiot that is so desperate to try justify the move you will say anything and ignore everything?

[QUOTE="firefox59"][QUOTE="jer_1"]

Microshaft wasn't "trying to move the industry forward" they were trying to be massive douchebags and clamp down on every damn level of ownership possible. How in the hell would that have been a good thing for the people? 

I could give two shits about how microsoft feels about anything, but I was pretty damn concerned (or annoyed rather) when I saw the crap they were about to pull, and the worst part is so many of you were right behind those shitwads...that's disappointing.

 

To the morons who really thought this was "moving us into the future" angryjoe has 2 choice words for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcXdWRJ-xb4

kingoflife9

Your in such denial lol.  Imagine never truly owning your games?  You buy the right to see them pan out on your screen, its literally like renting an interactive movie.  I want to OWN my games and do as I please with them.  I must have traded a hundred games this gen, and was able to play all of them without spending my life savings.  dummy.

[QUOTE="kingoflife9"]

[QUOTE="firefox59"] People like you who truly believe this can't think out of the box or look into the future. These consoles will last for a long time. You can't implement the policies MS was preaching after the console has been released so they were being up front with it. Now we have two consoles with better graphics and NOTHING else new for an entire generation.firefox59

Your in such denial lol.  Imagine never truly owning your games?  You buy the right to see them pan out on your screen, its literally like renting an interactive movie.  I want to OWN my games and do as I please with them.  I must have traded a hundred games this gen, and was able to play all of them without spending my life savings.  dummy.

people love steam because you get great games dirt cheap and there is no need for used games, microsoft would still price there games at rrp.

seriously . . . stop trying to justify such a stupid restriction

Do you really think "THE FUTURE" is being able to share your games . . . just on digital instead of disc? so you would rather wait for downloads and all other online cr*p rather than just give some one a disc with the game ready to play?

listen to yourself

Change the topic title to "this is why we need education". Some idiots will argue that going digital is the future... go figure. MS sollution was far from perfect, but it was a start, now it feels like we missed a full gen because of idiots with no internet, $#%& you and your poor ass for holding back my product. Whats next? Ms gimping the controller to cater to the gamers with one arm. Lets force everyone to play with one big button so the handicapped can bang their head against it, now everyone can play! MS biggest mistake, not going all in. They should have started with $20 cheaper digital copies and a second hand shop on LIVE. But MS used shit instead of honey, they screwed up to, but not as bad as the gamers. 

[QUOTE="Spartan_N7"]I was fine with the policies in place for X1. Yeah, it will attract a larger consumer base, but it really wasnt a bad start at all. Our phones are connected, why wouldnt our consoles? Too many people complaining. Microsoft shouldve stood by their word. kingoflife9

their original policy would have tanked the whole xbox brand.

Your spot on with the family game sharing, I bet that while someone plays a copy of your digital games it would kick them off as soon as you decided to play said game, it would be a series of people thinking the game simply errored out and disconnected you and people would be trying to reboot the game and kicking one another. You can kind of do that now by sharing accounts with others, my kid and nephew switch up once in a while as it is for eachothers arcade games.

[QUOTE="jer_1"]

Microshaft wasn't "trying to move the industry forward" they were trying to be massive douchebags and clamp down on every damn level of ownership possible. How in the hell would that have been a good thing for the people?

I could give two shits about how microsoft feels about anything, but I was pretty damn concerned (or annoyed rather) when I saw the crap they were about to pull, and the worst part is so many of you were right behind those shitwads...that's disappointing.

To the morons who really thought this was "moving us into the future" angryjoe has 2 choice words for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcXdWRJ-xb4

firefox59

Ah, another message board dweller who fancies himself to be one of the few enlightened among the ignorant masses.

I must disagree, I hate seeing everyone say that its going to happen eventually anyway with their tails between their legs, Money talks and let me tell you "PC GAMING" has all but died in comparison to console so lets adopt the PC GAMING MODEL. seriously PC has some great games and ideas but developers have been using DRM on just about everything for well over 10 years, first it was just cd keys which could be used to install the game an infinite amount of times to as many pc's as one wants. Now CD Keys can be activated a limited amount of times and then your calling customer service to have them increase your cd key usages.

The only Reason so many have been adopting consoles and the gamer pool is as large as it is today is because PC gamers hate DRM too, Diablo 3 lost alot of players only recently because its a game that can be should be allowed offline but they make you connect to their servers to play it single player anyways, servers go down, you cannot play..

Granted people still buy PC games because they really are far nicer looking with alot more shaders and power behind them, some simply cannot fathom playing games with gamepads all the time and prefer the keyboard and mouse, However Gamers tend to leave games behind when DRM hinders them at every turn..

I shiver when I realise that someday all my MMO games that I hold dear will someday just not be there and all that time put in will no longer mean anything. servers shut down and its like it never happened, I have no game, my data was all stored on a server..its not good in any form..what ever happened to hosting a room of instanced play where people connect to your IP address as an option.

MMO even though you have a disc are basically like all digital, you dont need the disc once your account is created and game is registered to you. However the online requirement for any games is just bad, as this generation will end and servers may not stay up as long as you would think.People put 3,000 hours into monster hunter games and the online for those is down now//Nobody wants that.

The way things have been with consoles up until now you could hand the system down to a little one when they are old enough to play it, all that money doesnt go to waste and now someone else can appreciate it for their first time.

I must disagree, I hate seeing everyone say that its going to happen eventually anyway with their tails between their legs, Money talks and let me tell you "PC GAMING" has all but died in comparison to console so lets adopt the PC GAMING MODEL. seriously PC has some great games and ideas but developers have been using DRM on just about everything for well over 10 years, first it was just cd keys which could be used to install the game an infinite amount of times to as many pc's as one wants. Now CD Keys can be activated a limited amount of times and then your calling customer service to have them increase your cd key usages.

The only Reason so many have been adopting consoles and the gamer pool is as large as it is today is because PC gamers hate DRM too, Diablo 3 lost alot of players only recently because its a game that can be should be allowed offline but they make you connect to their servers to play it single player anyways, servers go down, you cannot play..

Granted people still buy PC games because they really are far nicer looking with alot more shaders and power behind them, some simply cannot fathom playing games with gamepads all the time and prefer the keyboard and mouse, However Gamers tend to leave games behind when DRM hinders them at every turn..

I shiver when I realise that someday all my MMO games that I hold dear will someday just not be there and all that time put in will no longer mean anything. servers shut down and its like it never happened, I have no game, my data was all stored on a server..its not good in any form..what ever happened to hosting a room of instanced play where people connect to your IP address as an option.

MMO even though you have a disc are basically like all digital, you dont need the disc once your account is created and game is registered to you. However the online requirement for any games is just bad, as this generation will end and servers may not stay up as long as you would think.People put 3,000 hours into monster hunter games and the online for those is down now//Nobody wants that.

The way things have been with consoles up until now you could hand the system down to a little one when they are old enough to play it, all that money doesnt go to waste and now someone else can appreciate it for their first time.

xeidog69

Great post, Plus having no DRM restrictions does not mean they can not keep the sharing online features at all, I don't know why that is so hard to understand for some people.

[QUOTE="firefox59"][QUOTE="jer_1"]

Microshaft wasn't "trying to move the industry forward" they were trying to be massive douchebags and clamp down on every damn level of ownership possible. How in the hell would that have been a good thing for the people?

I could give two shits about how microsoft feels about anything, but I was pretty damn concerned (or annoyed rather) when I saw the crap they were about to pull, and the worst part is so many of you were right behind those shitwads...that's disappointing.

To the morons who really thought this was "moving us into the future" angryjoe has 2 choice words for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcXdWRJ-xb4

Bubble_Man

Ah, another message board dweller who fancies himself to be one of the few enlightened among the ignorant masses.

[QUOTE="Bubble_Man"]

[QUOTE="firefox59"] People like you who truly believe this can't think out of the box or look into the future. These consoles will last for a long time. You can't implement the policies MS was preaching after the console has been released so they were being up front with it. Now we have two consoles with better graphics and NOTHING else new for an entire generation.firefox59

Ah, another message board dweller who fancies himself to be one of the few enlightened among the ignorant masses.

And tell me how a console having DRM restrictions is an innovation, i would be delighted to hear what thoughts are running through your head.

Or are you just going to ignore the question for a second time? 

[QUOTE="firefox59"][QUOTE="Bubble_Man"]

 

Ah, another message board dweller who fancies himself to be one of the few enlightened among the ignorant masses.

pickettsticket

And tell me how a console having DRM restrictions is an innovation, i would be delighted to hear what thoughts are running through your head.

Or are you just going to ignore the question for a second time? 

[QUOTE="pickettsticket"]

[QUOTE="firefox59"] Well it's true. And there are more people who agree with me than you think. It's just the negative people are so much more vocal and put more effort into bashing MS's now defunct policies. Tell me honestly that you think almost zero innovation for another 7 years is a good thing.Childeater10

And tell me how a console having DRM restrictions is an innovation, i would be delighted to hear what thoughts are running through your head.

Or are you just going to ignore the question for a second time? 

[QUOTE="firefox59"]Well first off, you can't implement policies like that after people have purchased the consoles unless MS feels like getting sued. Secondly, the word innovate means to do something new or different. MS was trying to lessen the impact of used games and give devs more money while STILL saving people money cause they could share games among 10 other people. The biggest problem people have with eliminating used games is the money and with the sharing you could play all of your friends games. Also, MS would let you buy, sell and trade digital games with is a step forward. Idk how you can deny that. MS was innovating the way we play and manage games. However, people didn't understand what was happening went "OMG they are taking away my rights" and freaked out. Now we have improved versions of the Xbox 360 and the PS3 and that's about it. The Xbox One does have more room for improvement, but it'll be hard to implement new policies without people attacking them again.magicalclick

You assume there is no limitation in sharing with your 10 friends. The truth is, MS hasn't announced anything about the limitations of sharing. And just using commom sense, I am pretty sure they do not wish you to share games with your friends (they are not your family to begin with) and uncontroled sharing would lose more money, which is very unappealing for publishers. In the most basic setup, two players cannot play the same game on different console at same time. Don't expect buying one game and share with your 10 friends and expect to play all together online at same time. That will never happen, no matter how you have internet connect every single second or not.

Exactly this, Firefox You do not get unlimited sharing and all this you are making up because its something you are obviously trying to make your self believe.

Even if they did which they just would never allow, you take away sharing hard copy games, and give them digital copy sharing . . . there still going to be loosing money the same way.

A simple concept you obviously can not understand.

[QUOTE="firefox59"]Well first off, you can't implement policies like that after people have purchased the consoles unless MS feels like getting sued. Secondly, the word innovate means to do something new or different. MS was trying to lessen the impact of used games and give devs more money while STILL saving people money cause they could share games among 10 other people. The biggest problem people have with eliminating used games is the money and with the sharing you could play all of your friends games. Also, MS would let you buy, sell and trade digital games with is a step forward. Idk how you can deny that. MS was innovating the way we play and manage games. However, people didn't understand what was happening went "OMG they are taking away my rights" and freaked out. Now we have improved versions of the Xbox 360 and the PS3 and that's about it. The Xbox One does have more room for improvement, but it'll be hard to implement new policies without people attacking them again.magicalclick

You assume there is no limitation in sharing with your 10 friends. The truth is, MS hasn't announced anything about the limitations of sharing. And just using commom sense, I am pretty sure they do not wish you to share games with your friends (they are not your family to begin with) and uncontroled sharing would lose more money, which is very unappealing for publishers. In the most basic setup, two players cannot play the same game on different console at same time. Don't expect buying one game and share with your 10 friends and expect to play all together online at same time. That will never happen, no matter how you have internet connect every single second or not.

As for your response. I think you kind of answered your own conundrum. You said "sharing would lose more money" but then said "you can't play together with friends at the same time." Exactly, there are limits. Your friends would want to buy there own copy cause only you and one friend could play any game at the same time. Regardless, one person buying a game and sharing it is better than anyone buying a used game cause the devs get ZERO profit from that transaction. The whole point is eliminating used games cause the people who make the games get nothing from that. So you share your games, your friends like them, then they buy them. That's the idea. Even if not all of them buy it, 1 or 2 game sales is better than no profit from a used game sale.

Also, you can't really question the 10 people sharing system, at least right now. MS said you could share with anyone on your that's been on your list for 30 days. We can't just speculate and assume they are lying, and seeing as how that idea is gone for now, we may never know for sure.

MS was just trying to move the industry forward. It wasn't Sony who did it, it was all the entitled nerds on the internet.percech

[QUOTE="xeidog69"]

I must disagree, I hate seeing everyone say that its going to happen eventually anyway with their tails between their legs, Money talks and let me tell you "PC GAMING" has all but died in comparison to console so lets adopt the PC GAMING MODEL. seriously PC has some great games and ideas but developers have been using DRM on just about everything for well over 10 years, first it was just cd keys which could be used to install the game an infinite amount of times to as many pc's as one wants. Now CD Keys can be activated a limited amount of times and then your calling customer service to have them increase your cd key usages.

The only Reason so many have been adopting consoles and the gamer pool is as large as it is today is because PC gamers hate DRM too, Diablo 3 lost alot of players only recently because its a game that can be should be allowed offline but they make you connect to their servers to play it single player anyways, servers go down, you cannot play..

Granted people still buy PC games because they really are far nicer looking with alot more shaders and power behind them, some simply cannot fathom playing games with gamepads all the time and prefer the keyboard and mouse, However Gamers tend to leave games behind when DRM hinders them at every turn..

I shiver when I realise that someday all my MMO games that I hold dear will someday just not be there and all that time put in will no longer mean anything. servers shut down and its like it never happened, I have no game, my data was all stored on a server..its not good in any form..what ever happened to hosting a room of instanced play where people connect to your IP address as an option.

MMO even though you have a disc are basically like all digital, you dont need the disc once your account is created and game is registered to you. However the online requirement for any games is just bad, as this generation will end and servers may not stay up as long as you would think.People put 3,000 hours into monster hunter games and the online for those is down now//Nobody wants that.

The way things have been with consoles up until now you could hand the system down to a little one when they are old enough to play it, all that money doesnt go to waste and now someone else can appreciate it for their first time.

pickettsticket

Great post, Plus having no DRM restrictions does not mean they can not keep the sharing online features at all, I don't know why that is so hard to understand for some people.

[QUOTE="Bubble_Man"]

[QUOTE="firefox59"] People like you who truly believe this can't think out of the box or look into the future. These consoles will last for a long time. You can't implement the policies MS was preaching after the console has been released so they were being up front with it. Now we have two consoles with better graphics and NOTHING else new for an entire generation.firefox59

Ah, another message board dweller who fancies himself to be one of the few enlightened among the ignorant masses.

[QUOTE="magicalclick"]

[QUOTE="firefox59"]Well first off, you can't implement policies like that after people have purchased the consoles unless MS feels like getting sued. Secondly, the word innovate means to do something new or different. MS was trying to lessen the impact of used games and give devs more money while STILL saving people money cause they could share games among 10 other people. The biggest problem people have with eliminating used games is the money and with the sharing you could play all of your friends games. Also, MS would let you buy, sell and trade digital games with is a step forward. Idk how you can deny that. MS was innovating the way we play and manage games. However, people didn't understand what was happening went "OMG they are taking away my rights" and freaked out. Now we have improved versions of the Xbox 360 and the PS3 and that's about it. The Xbox One does have more room for improvement, but it'll be hard to implement new policies without people attacking them again.firefox59

You assume there is no limitation in sharing with your 10 friends. The truth is, MS hasn't announced anything about the limitations of sharing. And just using commom sense, I am pretty sure they do not wish you to share games with your friends (they are not your family to begin with) and uncontroled sharing would lose more money, which is very unappealing for publishers. In the most basic setup, two players cannot play the same game on different console at same time. Don't expect buying one game and share with your 10 friends and expect to play all together online at same time. That will never happen, no matter how you have internet connect every single second or not.

As for your response. I think you kind of answered your own conundrum. You said "sharing would lose more money" but then said "you can't play together with friends at the same time." Exactly, there are limits. Your friends would want to buy there own copy cause only you and one friend could play any game at the same time. Regardless, one person buying a game and sharing it is better than anyone buying a used game cause the devs get ZERO profit from that transaction. The whole point is eliminating used games cause the people who make the games get nothing from that. So you share your games, your friends like them, then they buy them. That's the idea. Even if not all of them buy it, 1 or 2 game sales is better than no profit from a used game sale.

Also, you can't really question the 10 people sharing system, at least right now. MS said you could share with anyone on your that's been on your list for 30 days. We can't just speculate and assume they are lying, and seeing as how that idea is gone for now, we may never know for sure.

Microsoft has Halo. Sony has nothing even remotely comparable to it.

Microsoft has Halo. Sony has nothing even remotely comparable to it.

P7R8

What about the highest rated exclusives such as uncharted 2, The last of us, God of war, Killzone 2, LBP and MGS4?

But you hang on to that Halo with your dear life.

Just dont bad mouth the higher rated games because you cant play them mate, its childish.

Edit: Oh god I bet I just fell for a troll . . . 

[QUOTE="firefox59"][QUOTE="Bubble_Man"]

Ah, another message board dweller who fancies himself to be one of the few enlightened among the ignorant masses.

El_Zo1212o

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"][QUOTE="firefox59"] Well it's true. And there are more people who agree with me than you think. It's just the negative people are so much more vocal and put more effort into bashing MS's now defunct policies. Tell me honestly that you think almost zero innovation for another 7 years is a good thing.firefox59

And you keep ignoring every single person who does listen and gives a responese that says why that is less important to them.

[QUOTE="firefox59"][QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"] I'd have been tickled pink to have the PS360 generation continue for another three years. Tell me, though- and I'm genuinely interested here- what advancements do you consider 'lost' due to this? Seems to me that new hardware brings innovation with it. PS2 and PS3 were incredibly iterative- only difference was what new video format they supported, how pretty the games could look and(ps360) a viable, comprehensive online service. The PS2 era brought about the birth of the open world action game, and the PS360 era brought about finer details like terrain deformity and structural destruction.El_Zo1212o

He is referring to me.

I asked him the excact same questions a few days ago and he did the excact same to me, avoided the question completely and didnt respond to any points i made.

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]^Seems a bit odd to be so vehement about having to give a 'solid answer' repeatedly when it seems like the 'solid answer' was never given in the first place... :/firefox59

No, i have just gave valid points against everything you have tried to bash sony for and praise xbox for by spinning the truth to what you wish it to be.

When you ask me questions I make sure ive got facts to prove it and an actual point

when i ask you, you reply with

1) Xbox one was the future before you

2) a derogatory comment

3) a completely false statement

Which to be quite honest is very annoying.

MS was just trying to move the industry forward. It wasn't Sony who did it, it was all the entitled nerds on the internet.percech

[QUOTE="percech"]MS was just trying to move the industry forward. It wasn't Sony who did it, it was all the entitled nerds on the internet.LevelInfinity