what microsoft is doing is illegal

First off I am not a software pirate. I bought my system legally and own all my games. Somehow i got flagged for banning. I owned a 360 for 2 years without a problem. I traded mine in 4 monoths back because i wanted a ps3. I decided i didnt like the ps3 so returned it and got another 360.

Anyways I work in internet security and know about internet law. What amazes me is MS is actually going out and tampering with hardware disabling features such as being able to install games to the harddrive. Nevermind being banned from xbox live and not being able to install updates to my games that i purchased. I can't install games to the harddrive. They actually disabled this feature on my hardware that i purchased and own. I have a dvd player that skips sometimes and doesnt read discs too well because of ms's junky hardware as it is, so its crucial for me to be able to install games to the harddrive. This is absurd. What if my system was past warrenty and a part breaks? I'm not a computer idiot and its perfectly legal to install a 3rd party harddrive in a piece of hardware i own vs having to buy it from microsoft and spend whatever ridiculous price they charge. This is anticompetitive on their part and completely absurd. What's even worse is they broke into my network and tampered with hardware i own.

I called them today and explained my situation and spoke to a manager. I'm a completely honest hardworking person here. He told me they are weeding through a lot of cases right now and there are a lot of people they banned that shouldnt have been. But its going to take time before they unban me. His excuse and i quote himi was that this is for the greater good and so that microsoft can make their service better. What gave microsoft the right to decide what the greater good is to do with my money? I'm out $300 here because they broke into my home and disabled certain features of hardware i own. If this was a car, what they did is the equivalent of breaking into my car and disabling the breaking system because they think i was doing something i wasn't. This is the problem with microsoft. They are too powerful and think they are doing some greater good when they are actually messing with innocent people and i'm out $300 because they are criminals. I never agreed to allowing them to tamper with my hardware. Please explain to me how what they are doing isn't completely messed up? So I have hope they unban me when I did nothign wrong.

That sucks dude, but i thought i saw a article a while back saying M$ was going to start banning people with 3rd party hard drives, which is ridculous. There just like every company though, all they care about is money and dont give a rat ass about the customer. Hopefully it ends up working out for you.

i dont have a 3rd party harddrive though. I was just using that as an example. Because what ms is doing isnt abotu piracy. It's about stopping 3rd party use so they have complete control. i swapped this 360 out at a store and have a receipt. I bought it new and havent touched it. Maybe there was something wrong with it when i bought it. I have no idea. This is just scary to me. Who made Microsoft the law? They have way too much control to be able to do what they did here.

i dont have a 3rd party harddrive though. I was just using that as an example. Because what ms is doing isnt abotu piracy. It's about stopping 3rd party use so they have complete control. i swapped this 360 out at a store and have a receipt. I bought it new and havent touched it. Maybe there was something wrong with it when i bought it. I have no idea. This is just scary to me. Who made Microsoft the law? They have way too much control to be able to do what they did here.

Walker34

Let me put it this way. I have a console that ms has basically rendered completely useless because htey think i was doing something i wasn't. I have a crappy dvd drive. The disabled my harddrive with this update and banned me from live. It's now a banned console so i cant repair the dvd drive through them. Say I think I see you doing something that i dont agree with. It's my word against yours. Hypothetically speaking of course, I go over to your house and break your legs and disable you. You would think i was a psycho and was breaking the law right? Because that's how i feel. That's basicalyl what they did. The thing is MS knows it's not worth it to me. I could go get a lawyer and go after them but it's not worth the time and effort so they win and they know this. MS wins... It's just scary because what kind of precendence does this set? They are cutting out all 3rd parties and who's to say what they will do next? They control the pc market with their OS, and make the rules there as well. The government really needs to step in or something but MS has connections in high places. But MS basically has their police force on the net and makes their own rules. this is a console i purchased and own and they basically tampered with it . Thing is you call them they don't do anything about it. The internet doesn't follow the same rules as actual law and companies like microsoft can get away with it because noone else is up to speed.

That sucks dude, but i thought i saw a article a while back saying M$ was going to start banning people with 3rd party hard drives,

RAGINGxPONY

No, that was just to stop the utilization of problematic/unlisenced memory units.I think you can use a a third party HDD if you partioned it correctly.

One of the dudes on the gamehounds podcast did that.

I think it was mainly a crack down on crappy asian unlisenced memory sticks.

It sucks dude. But Microsoft does not tolerate any modding of the system at all.

But that's the point. I didn't mod this console. I bought it from a store and have the receipt. I haven't modded it at all. I just understand what they are doing...... What i'm saying is this is the problem with them doing what they are. For one they have no right to tamper with hardware that i purchased. Secondly they messed up and are actually wrong in this instance. I did not mod my console. I was just using that as an example because that's the whole problem with wha tthey are doing and why they are doing it. So they can control what you use and charge whatever they want. MS is not the law and they actually tampered with a persons console here who was not doing anything wrong. I'm out $300 because they think they are the law and messed up.

Take the console back and tell them it was used.

that's my only recourse if they take it back. I bought it end of june. Who knows if they will believe me though. From what MS was saying when they scan it at the store it shows up as banned or not once it's been banned.

For one they have no right to tamper with hardware that i purchased. Secondly they messed up and are actually wrong in this instance.Walker34

I think you should try to see things from their point of view. With evey major update on all system there is a chance that something will go wrong.

There have been instances of that on all consoles this generation. Now right at the start of such issues MS is obviously swapmed with people who need to have something rectified, and that will be taken care of.

I don't think they take bans lightly though. I heard that there is a strenuous process that they usually have to go through.

They are waging a war on piracy right now. You were caught in the crossfire. They don't allow outside HD's anymore because people were using them to cheat.

I know i'm going to get stuff thrown at me for this, but maybe you should have kept the PS3 dude. You can swap that hard drive with any laptop hard drive you want and won't be punished. On a serious note I have to say this is a bunch of bull. People have sued for less and if you want something done about it get together with all the others (who haven't done anything wrong) and file a class action suit. I would be PISSED if that happened to me. So far I haven't had a speck of trouble with my 360, PS3 or Wii, but if I had something like that happen I would be raising holy hell. P.S. I really believe banning 3rd party softwareis really an @$$#0!% move.

The 360 has a 90% failure rate. Can you really be surprised that Microsoft's gaming division doesn't know what they're doing?istuffedsunny

aIt was more like 40-60%.

plus do some resarch before you make your self look like a idiot.

and the new jasper chip has a failure rate of around 2%

TC not to sound too harsh....BUT...just get over it and move on. Dump MS and the 360 and go pc,ps3,wii. MS has messed up more times this gen then what anyone can deal with. AND believe me, im one of the millions that have had problems.

I will not support them next gen and I hope they go under. Absolute junk all the way around any way you look at it. Good luck.

Downloading Games is Illegal (IF not Bought off of Xbox Live), IF that is in fact what you mean by "Downloading" them. IT takes money away from the Developers and makes publishers enforce absurd rules. Microsoft doesn't allow 3rd Party HArd Drives because they can be modded, not because they want to hurt the consumer.

interesting article...

The problem is there is probably some section of the bagillion page user agreement that you and the rest of us selected"i agree" on that says they are allowed to do what they are doing. So most likely there is nothing you can do. Microsoft isn't stupid and I'm sure they were prepared for hacking and 3rd party and all that stuff and put it in the documentation.

The thing is i don't know you so i can't trust that you didn't mod your 360 and you aren't just crying about it on the forums trying to make yourself look like the good guy to vent. What i can say though is that microsoft doesn't just randomly say "Hey that it's its over for you" for no reason. They detect a modded console and then they kick you off THEIR service. What they do with their servers is entirely up to them. You essentially bought a box with hardware inside of it and them banning you from using that hardware is wrong but isn't it the software inside the console which makes it able to do things? As far as i'm concerned if they want to tell you that you aren't allowed to use what they program to work with the hardware you bought then that is up to them but it is wrong if they tell you that for no reason.

You have my sympathy if you are telling the truth though but for some reason i just can't see a non modded console getting detected as one but i suppose it is possible.

F*** Microsoft...its there own damn fault....and they know...if they made better software this sh** would not be happening...

I mean think about it....the pc's suck...why? because there software...phones running on windows suck why?beacause of there software...

My point is thats what Microsoft gets for being so cheap...i mean look at Apple how often do you hear about a MAC crashing?????????

THANK YOU...

-NOXiK_AOPK-

Hi, I'm a Mac user and I do have to say this... You shame us all. Your argument would have been 100% more effective without the use of curse words.

Apart from that I believe everything you say. I do love my Xbox, it's my Baby, and I'm never going PS3. (Not if I can help it atleast). But Microsoft not letting us change hardware in our systems almost feels hypocritical. It's Windows. It's meant to be messed with, it's Microsoft for crying out loud, they don't even make Microsoft Hardware. (To my knowledge at least)It just feels as if they are stretching their own power over us.

I don't mind someone being banned because they mod their Xbox to play pirated games, I don't mind them banning someone for moding to have an aimbot (Do those excist anymore?), I don't mind them banning people who mod their Xbox for "X" reason so long as it's an illegal activity, but banning someone for changing internal pieces just seems wrong. I don't care if you void my warranty, just don't ban my system just because I put in a new harddrive, disk drive, etc...

The thing is i don't know you so i can't trust that you didn't mod your 360 and you aren't just crying about it on the forums trying to make yourself look like the good guy to vent. What i can say though is that microsoft doesn't just randomly say "Hey that it's its over for you" for no reason. They detect a modded console and then they kick you off THEIR service. What they do with their servers is entirely up to them. You essentially bought a box with hardware inside of it and them banning you from using that hardware is wrong but isn't it the software inside the console which makes it able to do things? As far as i'm concerned if they want to tell you that you aren't allowed to use what they program to work with the hardware you bought then that is up to them but it is wrong if they tell you that for no reason.

You have my sympathy if you are telling the truth though but for some reason i just can't see a non modded console getting detected as one but i suppose it is possible.

XileLord

You do pose a very good point, it is their service, their servers. The more I think about this problem, the more I feel on the fence.

But I bought that software, I feel no need to obey their rules and laws to have to use it their way. I'm not speaking of using it for illegal activity, but, per say, to change a disk drive or harddrive. I bought the software, I bought the right to use it, in legal ways that I see fit.

i understand where ms is coming from in regards to modded hdds or controllers. fact is that ppl who have modded have runied it for everyone. i hate having to shell out 150 bucks for a 120gb hdd when i can get a 160 hdd for alot cheaper. lets face it ms is like everyother company....out to make money. i hope things turn out well for you.

[QUOTE="XileLord"]

The thing is i don't know you so i can't trust that you didn't mod your 360 and you aren't just crying about it on the forums trying to make yourself look like the good guy to vent. What i can say though is that microsoft doesn't just randomly say "Hey that it's its over for you" for no reason. They detect a modded console and then they kick you off THEIR service. What they do with their servers is entirely up to them. You essentially bought a box with hardware inside of it and them banning you from using that hardware is wrong but isn't it the software inside the console which makes it able to do things? As far as i'm concerned if they want to tell you that you aren't allowed to use what they program to work with the hardware you bought then that is up to them but it is wrong if they tell you that for no reason.

You have my sympathy if you are telling the truth though but for some reason i just can't see a non modded console getting detected as one but i suppose it is possible.

DamianAlexander

You do pose a very good point, it is their service, their servers. The more I think about this problem, the more I feel on the fence.

But I bought that software, I feel no need to obey their rules and laws to have to use it their way. I'm not speaking of using it for illegal activity, but, per say, to change a disk drive or harddrive. I bought the software, I bought the right to use it, in legal ways that I see fit.

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

[QUOTE="XileLord"]

The thing is i don't know you so i can't trust that you didn't mod your 360 and you aren't just crying about it on the forums trying to make yourself look like the good guy to vent. What i can say though is that microsoft doesn't just randomly say "Hey that it's its over for you" for no reason. They detect a modded console and then they kick you off THEIR service. What they do with their servers is entirely up to them. You essentially bought a box with hardware inside of it and them banning you from using that hardware is wrong but isn't it the software inside the console which makes it able to do things? As far as i'm concerned if they want to tell you that you aren't allowed to use what they program to work with the hardware you bought then that is up to them but it is wrong if they tell you that for no reason.

You have my sympathy if you are telling the truth though but for some reason i just can't see a non modded console getting detected as one but i suppose it is possible.

XileLord

You do pose a very good point, it is their service, their servers. The more I think about this problem, the more I feel on the fence.

But I bought that software, I feel no need to obey their rules and laws to have to use it their way. I'm not speaking of using it for illegal activity, but, per say, to change a disk drive or harddrive. I bought the software, I bought the right to use it, in legal ways that I see fit.

I don't mind being kicked off LIVE, but don't render my Gamertag/Xbox useless. Seriously, I just think that they are dishing out punishments that don't weigh out the crime. That's like sentencing someone to 5 years for stealing a candy bar, the means just don't meat the ends. (Did I swear up the expression? I'm so bad with American expressions...)

that's my only recourse if they take it back. I bought it end of june. Who knows if they will believe me though. From what MS was saying when they scan it at the store it shows up as banned or not once it's been banned.

Walker34

Ok...there are some valid points for Micrsofts's decision to pull this. You need to understand that one of the reasons they only allow their products to be used with the xbox is due to piracy. If you haven't read the young hacker who was *going* to pirate Modern Warefare 2, he was selling hard drives with games already on it for cheap on online auction sites. This is something that Microsoft is trying to combat. So when they see people with 3rd party hard drives, they have no way to see if you have pirated version of xbox games on it. So whats their solution, BAN. I am not saying its right what they are doing, but I can't say its stupid from their point of view.

We definitely don't want the government stepping in, they already do enough of that.

i understand microsoft trying to support developers and keeping xbox live gaming free from cheaters. the only problem I have is that they should have given you a clear warning on screen before you updated the console.

i have to agree man, it sucks that you got banned, but a few casualties is going to happen when they are trying to wage war one piracy (yeah i maybe taking the metaphor too far, so sue me...). however, i dont think that this can at all be compared to them walking into your house and breaking your legs to disable you, or knocking out your car brakes. reductio ad absurdum.... thats not a good arguement... i would think that possibly ou happened to buy a previously modded 360 from that place. thats just crappy luck, but if its not too late, they may take it back

First off I am not a software pirate. I bought my system legally and own all my games. Somehow i got flagged for banning. I owned a 360 for 2 years without a problem. I traded mine in 4 monoths back because i wanted a ps3. I decided i didnt like the ps3 so returned it and got another 360.

Anyways I work in internet security and know about internet law. What amazes me is MS is actually going out and tampering with hardware disabling features such as being able to install games to the harddrive. Nevermind being banned from xbox live and not being able to install updates to my games that i purchased. I can't install games to the harddrive. They actually disabled this feature on my hardware that i purchased and own. I have a dvd player that skips sometimes and doesnt read discs too well because of ms's junky hardware as it is, so its crucial for me to be able to install games to the harddrive. This is absurd. What if my system was past warrenty and a part breaks? I'm not a computer idiot and its perfectly legal to install a 3rd party harddrive in a piece of hardware i own vs having to buy it from microsoft and spend whatever ridiculous price they charge. This is anticompetitive on their part and completely absurd. What's even worse is they broke into my network and tampered with hardware i own.

I called them today and explained my situation and spoke to a manager. I'm a completely honest hardworking person here. He told me they are weeding through a lot of cases right now and there are a lot of people they banned that shouldnt have been. But its going to take time before they unban me. His excuse and i quote himi was that this is for the greater good and so that microsoft can make their service better. What gave microsoft the right to decide what the greater good is to do with my money? I'm out $300 here because they broke into my home and disabled certain features of hardware i own. If this was a car, what they did is the equivalent of breaking into my car and disabling the breaking system because they think i was doing something i wasn't. This is the problem with microsoft. They are too powerful and think they are doing some greater good when they are actually messing with innocent people and i'm out $300 because they are criminals. I never agreed to allowing them to tamper with my hardware. Please explain to me how what they are doing isn't completely messed up? So I have hope they unban me when I did nothign wrong.

Walker34

Technically speaking, you do not own your Xbox 360..... Furthermore, the analogy you made in comparing your car to your Xbox is, well, horrible.

Your situation sucks, granted, but Microsoft has the right to do this. I in no way condone what they've done and your situation sucks nonetheless. It's not, however, illegal in any way.

what they are doing is not illegal its perfectly legal, and second of all u signed a contract with microsoft so what u may think is illegal is not, next time review terms and conditions before accepting and not just clicking accept. Internet law really isn't a big issue here its more of a contract legal issue. And ima law studentso i do know a lot when it comes to the law, which is why i can say they are doing nothing illegal here.

The TC is a LIAR. They're always a reason when you get console banned...and they e-mail you with that reason.

He pretends to be innocent, but he's not.

well so far i haven't heard of anybody with unmodded 360s being banned and second MS can do whatever they want through the updates. Installing games to the HD wasn't even available until recently and if they want to take it away they can. Its not like they are breaking your 360 it can still play the games.

The TC is a LIAR. They're always a reason when you get console banned...and they e-mail you with that reason.

He pretends to be innocent, but he's not.

Paynee

I actually am telling the truth man. Why woudl i pretend? That in itself is lame assuming that i'm lying when i'm really telling the truth.

As far as the guy who say what microsoft isn't illegal. Trust me I understand this stuff. When you sign up for their service you agree to their terms of use so you are technically in their house and they make the rules. It's the equivalient of me posting a sign outside my house and if you enter i can do whatever i want to you. The problem is if you buy an xbox and want to update your games you really have no choice. Live is the only service available to do that. If there was another option or network i could join that would be great but there isn't. MS is anticompetitive and controls their stuff. I understand what youa re saying. I just think there are problems with that for the reasons i've stated. I also think it's sketchy and there is a fine like where they actually came into my network and started disabling features on my hardware. That close to tampering. Yeah i could just block them if i dont agree and not sign into their service if i dont want them tampering with my hardware but like i said MS has you cornered for the reasons i said.

My only option if i dont want MS making the rules is to just not buy an xbox or go out and make my own console. Which is ridiculous. The PC market is being phased out as far as games for this reason. MS has gotten into the console market because thats where they want things ultimately. your word processing, everything will be this way someday if we keep going at this rate. That's my only concern. MS becomes the law and its to protect their empire and how they see fit. When they aren't the law.

If you feel that MS invaded your privacy and took illegal actions why dont you file a law suit? since you are in internet security and know the law, you should know wethere or not you have a case

^^I'm saying you have a modded x-box or HD. You do, don't lie.

[QUOTE="Paynee"]

The TC is a LIAR. They're always a reason when you get console banned...and they e-mail you with that reason.

He pretends to be innocent, but he's not.

Walker34

I actually am telling the truth man. Why woudl i pretend? That in itself is lame assuming that i'm lying when i'm really telling the truth.

As far as the guy who say what microsoft isn't illegal. Trust me I understand this stuff. When you sign up for their service you agree to their terms of use so you are technically in their house and they make the rules. It's the equivalient of me posting a sign outside my house and if you enter i can do whatever i want to you. The problem is if you buy an xbox and want to update your games you really have no choice. Live is the only service available to do that. If there was another option or network i could join that would be great but there isn't. MS is anticompetitive and controls their stuff. I understand what youa re saying. I just think there are problems with that for the reasons i've stated. I also think it's sketchy and there is a fine like where they actually came into my network and started disabling features on my hardware. That close to tampering. Yeah i could just block them if i dont agree and not sign into their service if i dont want them tampering with my hardware but like i said MS has you cornered for the reasons i said.

My only option if i dont want MS making the rules is to just not buy an xbox or go out and make my own console. Which is ridiculous. The PC market is being phased out as far as games for this reason. MS has gotten into the console market because thats where they want things ultimately. your word processing, everything will be this way someday if we keep going at this rate. That's my only concern. MS becomes the law and its to protect their empire and how they see fit. When they aren't the law.

if you feel its so blantantly illegal and you have strong case, by all means take them to court, but you better have a damn good lawyer

lol at the suing part. Microsofts biggest department is their legal department.

MS baned a friend of mine like 2 days ago. sucks for him.