jusjon17, is it REALLY so hard for you to put a warning BEFORE you go spoiling major details of the series?!?! I suppose my use of a general statement on the subject of inconsiderate people intentionally disregarding the feelings of other forum members and posting spoilers was not clear enough. I was talking to you!!! So PLEASE STOP IT!!! All you had to say was "other side of the gate" Your revelation of what was on the other side was not necessary, though if you insist on ruining future episodes for those of us who prefer to allow the story to develop on it's own, then AT LEAST put up a warning label. I assume the spoiler warning on this thread refers to THIS episode, but if I am mistaken, then I'll gladly move to the other "Rotted Heart" thread and post there. (*sighs* I figure I shouldn't take my battles to the forums. If it's worth fighting I'll do it in private, but man does this stuff piss me off )

I believe that the anime version leaves it open for personal interpretation. The only thing that really hints to them being "more than friends" is the way they react when people question their relationship. I choose to believe that they are questioning their feelings for each other. They have been friends since childhood and Winry even said that she considers them her family. Ed and Al are like little brothers to her and she's their big sister, but there is a possibility that as they grow older, Ed and Winry begin to wonder if their "love" for each other is changing into a different kind of love. Manga version is less subtle about their relationship and Winry realizes how much Ed has matured and admits to herself that perhaps, "I might have fallen for him a long time ago" It's a bit confusing what she means though...I won't give away spoilers but you can read new chapters at http://groups.msn.com/FullMetalAlchemist/fullmetalalchemistmanga.msnw Seems to me, Ed is focusing on his goal and hasn't given much thought to how he feels about Winry, but Winry has strong feelings for him that she can't quite place right now. Anime-wise, she's not sure if he's a bother to her or a potential boyfriend ( though it's obvious if the latter is true, she won't pursue a romantic relationship with him because she understands the importance of what he is trying to accomplish and to ask him to turn his attention from his brother and their goal to her would be selfish ) Manga-wise, she knows she's attracted to him but she's not sure what it is she is attracted to. It may not be "Him" she's in love with, but his determination and perseverance. She may be in love with the image of him becoming something great and I think she's a little bit intimidated by that because she is limited in terms of her usefulness to him and she feels like she is being left behind. Though when it comes to complicated matters like these, Edward is still an awkward teenager. No doubt at all that in both cases ( anime and manga ) he's got a crush on her. Where this will go....I can't help you there. I can only analyze and speculate.

I apologize in advance for the lengthy nature of this post but I feel it is important that I say what I have to say. So I was reading these "Supernatural" spoilers on http://board.supernaturalcentral.com/ and I came across the episode 13 - "Route 666" summary. I feel it is necessary to let the blissfully uninformed fans know what is in store for them. Here are some excerpts from the summary revolving around this week's female guest: "Sam and Dean walk to the counter and talk about Cassie. it soon becomes obvious Dean knew her previously- romantically! Apparently, he really loved her, but when he told her what he did career wise she dumped him!" Hmm....strange. I could have sworn Dean told that chick in the "Wendigo" episode that telling her what the brothers' true intentions were was the "most honest I've ever been with a woman....ever." Well...telling her they are searching for their Dad is one thing, but to tell a girl his current occupation...that's entirely different and a lot more "honest" than he was claiming to be on this little hiking trip. I'd like to think that Dean is a very sincere character when it concerns his family, and because he could relate to this girl in her search for her brother, I would again like to think that he wouldn't say something like this so freely. Introducing this new girl into the story will destroy this image of him. Go back and watch this episode again and tell me if you disagree with me when I say that despite the humor intended in this scene, ( it was cute and I did laugh ) the sensitivity shown by Dean is genuine! If this episode 13 is anything like the description I've read, it will take that moment and make it a total lie. Quite frankly, the emotional honesty of the two brothers in the series is one of the central factors and most appealing aspects of the show. I'm really hoping the writers rethink what they've scripted before this episode aires. Oh...but don't think I'd make this thread over JUST this. Here's another sample of this "Route 666" "Cassie is working on a computer when Dean enters. Its awkward between them....The pair begin to shout at each other, then break down into an intense kiss! Cassie takes Dean to her bedroom- thrashing, kissing, no clothes. Years of missing each other and now they're together again!" Okay...years of missing each other? When did Dean have the time to get so deeply involved with someone? Wasn't he always with Dad hunting? Up to this point, what has been the absolute most IMPORTANT thing to Dean? FAMILY!!!! That was evident enough in the "Bugs" episode ( believe me, it pains me to reference that episode but for the sake of argument it is the most effective ) He encouraged Sammy in the "Skin" episode to break ties with his friends and face the fact that he's a "Freak." Dean claims to have accepted this. Sammy calls him "anti-social" I would like give Dean more credit and believe that his complete dedication to his family has lead to his social awkwardness ( which he over-compensates for with his playboy attitude ) rather than some fling with a girl that didn't work out. Following my idea, even if he hooks up with girls, the relationship would remain superficial, despite any desire to deepen it. Meaning, it would be very hard for him to become intimate with someone. If this "passionate" scene plays out to the writers' idea, wouldn't Dean be placing someone else AHEAD of his family and his ambitions regarding his family? It doesn't seem like something Dean would do, even if it did mean scoring with a hot girl. Something else to consider is that Dean's trial and error flirting method maintains its entertainment value because ultimately, the result is failure every time. The fact that he is constantly chasing tail but never able to get some allows him to toy with his charming bad boy personality without being deemed a total sleaze. Personally, I feel that Dean intends for his overly assertive manner to alert woman to keep their distance because he has difficulty with closeness with non-family members. His attitude is a defense mechanism because he is the older brother and he feels that it his responsibility to act as the protector of his younger sibling and not burden Sammy with his own insecurities. Of course, this is open for interpretation. Lastly, the final moments of this dreadful episode to come....supposedly. I'm still hoping someone working on the series has enough brains to realise that this is a huge mistake in character development and stops this monstrosity from ever occurring! Any who, here you are: "Dean and Cassie say their good byes. Dean says 'Maybe this time it will be less permanant' Cassie says she doesn't see much hope for them, but Dean isn't convinced, saying 'I've found out a lot of things aren't as unreal as they seem.' Dean then jumps in the car and Sam pulls away. In the Impala, Sam asks Dean if putting life on hold to do what they do is worth it. Dean smiles, pulls down a baseball cap over his eyes and answers 'Wake me when it's my turn to drive.'" So...after all that she is just a one episode girl!?!?! WTH!?!?! Until the story develops more, we do NOT need these sort of characters appearing. It is far too convenient to take the years Sam and Dean were apart and say "okay...well this and this happened and bam! insert random person who supposedly has some sort of significance in the brothers' lives...for just one episode" Um...no. Whoever is coming up with this needs to be fired. That is so cheap! How is the audience suppose to connect with Dean and his feelings for this girl when we have NEVER seen her before and Dean NEVER hinted about her before. Then, to make it worse, she's only there for ONE episode JUST to have SEX with him and then he LEAVES!!!! Perhaps this is pleasing to fan girls who only watch the show in hopes of seeing Dean take off his shirt and have a scene such as this, but I would like the WB writers to try, TRY to make things a little less tacky and give the characters a LOT more respect. Here's to hoping someone feels the way I do and has the power to prevent this type of crap from DESTROYING "Supernatural" Give Dean time to resolve his feelings and meet the RIGHT girl who is willing to support him through his struggles rather than wait for him to finish the job and come back for another quick, one episode F***! I think introducing a Post-Cognitive love interest into the show would be pretty cool later on when Sammy's powers evolve a bit more. Visions of the past are always more frightening to me because they are events that no one can change. At least with Sammy's visions, one can have hope. Well, that concludes my rant on why Dean should NOT have SEX!!! Or maybe...I should have named this thread, "Will someone PLEASE fire these GOD AWFUL WRITERS!?!?!"

snow4186 wrote: I think that one thing that Dean is hiding that he hates being alone. The instant that Dean knew that John wasn't coming back, he came and got Sammy and the boys haven't been separated since. I think that it really showed in Skin that Dean felt abandoned when Sam went to college. His mother left him, his brother left him, and then John disappeared. The only thing Dean has for sure is the Impala. But the day the Impala breaks down will be a reallly bad day for Dean. I agree. You want to know what Dean is hiding? I'm thinking it's bottled up insecurities. I mean, his character is that of a "cocky smart-ass" and as the story goes, those characters are usually overcompensating for something. Considering the two leads are hot guys, which more than suggests that a good portion of show is geared towards a female audience, I can see the trend of bad-boy-with-a-good-heart seeping up through the cracks of the storyline. Here's what I've got so far on Dean; I'm thinking a major part of his insecurities, which we've established he must have many of given the circumstances, stem from the fact that he was forced to see the brutality of reality at such a young age and was raised to remain in what I consider a constant state of paranoia. Of course, a brilliant author once said "Paranoia is the clearest sign of mental health in this new millennium." Well Dean's just fine then, right? Heh. I'm wondering if Dean feels he has a responsibility to keep his family together. Maybe his hate for being alone is deeper than that, like a fear that his family will fall apart. I mean, Mom's dead, Sammy leaves on a sour note with Dad, and then Dad disappears! Now Dean must feel like he's failed them. Poor kid.... I also think that because Dean was pressured into growing up in such a stressful environment and had to adjust so quickly to this abnormal lifestyle that he wasn't allowed to be a regular kid. That's why he has this air of perpetual immaturity about him. As charming as that quality is, it means that he only grew up superficially and that he never had a chance to experience his childhood fully so inside, he's still just a little boy. I hope I'm not making him seem too pitiful and angst-ridden. If I continue any further it'll only get worse. So what do we know about Sam and Dean's high-school years? I mean, adolescence is akward enough as it is without being trained to battle the supernatural. My friend suggested that they may have been homes-chooled, but I have different ideas. Let me know what you guys think.

Hey, I'm new to this whole forum concept but I couldn't resist it anymore. I've got some theories since episode 9 "Home." So when the boys encounter their mother's ghost she just glances at Dean and then goes up to Sammy and tells him "I'm sorry." At first I thought she was apologizing for the pain her death had caused them, but she specifically told Sam she was sorry. So I'm thinking that their Mom had some secrets and that perhaps she knew who or what the figure hovering over Sammy's crib 22 years ago was. Maybe she was involved with some paranormal stuff that John wasn't aware of and that is why Sammy is displaying some less-than-normal abilities. So why is John Winchester avoiding his children? I'm thinking he discovered something about Mary that directly involves his sons (specifically Sam for now) and as far as he is concerned, there is not much he can do to help them. You know, when Missouri mentioned her surprise at the fact that Sam didn't sense his father's presence, John didn't seem too shocked to hear his son had psychic skills. Did anyone else think there was something odd with the way John asked "Mary's spirit, do you really think she saved the boys?" He sounded almost skeptical to me, so I'm definitely feeling something more sinister going on. Also, back to the scene between Mary's ghost and Sam, I think she knows that some really bad stuff is ahead for the both of them. She must have been apologizing for Jess's death and the inevitable tragedies they are going to face because of something she did. Sammy's powers are going to get stronger and the thing that killed Mary isn't finished with the Winchesters by a long shot. Oh hey, this is going to start to seem like I'm rambling, but reading over this I thought of something else. Why is Sam showing signs of supernatural abilities and not Dean? Why was the mysterious figure in Sam's room that night rather than Dean and why did it target Sam years later when it killed Jess ( assuming what killed Jess was that same thing )? We don't know much about the 4 years Dean and Sam were apart so maybe Dean has some strange stuff going on with him that he's not sharing but if not, what's so special about Sammy? This may seem far-fetched but what if their mom had an affair and Sam is not John's son? The figure that stood over his crib seemed masculine to me so maybe it's his real father or something. So let's see, John wants to know the "truth" which I think is more about Mary than the thing that killed her. Maybe he is starting to suspect she was involved with not just the paranormal, but with someone paranormal. The way he was looking at his wedding ring at the end of that episode....what do you think he was thinking about? The show has such strong themes when it comes to family foundation. Perhaps he was doubting the one thing he can still believe in. Family. If that's the case, how are Sam and Dean going to take this? Last thing. I'm sure others must be thinking that the date of their mother's death has some significance. It's November 2, 1983, correct? And Jess died on Nov. 2 as well....so I'm confused, why does this pilot preview say September 13 1985 as the date their mother died? I mean, I'm hoping the date provides more depth to the series and that it's not something so meaningless and coincidental that someone could make a mistake that this. I'm just saying.