[QUOTE="Bongardo"]

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]Atlus is doomed.CarnageHeart

Well didn't they buy the whole company? Was there many/any workers lost in the process? If Atlus still has the same manpower as before, then why exactly are they doomed?

Or do they not have the same manpower? I'm not sure.

Nobody's been cut yet, but Sega has its own localization people. Companies always seek to reduce their bottom line, so sooner or later someone at Sega is going to say 'Let's consolidate in order to save costs!'.

Also, Sega is notoriously conservative about what they bring over while Atlus is famously bold about what they bring over. Now the bold guys have to get permission from the conservative guys. That will undoubtedly make for less boldness.

You could be right. But maybe not. Atlus has always done well over in the west haven't they? Persona in particular is actually pretty popular. So if they can, I can hardly see them choosing not to localise them.

I wouldn't be surprised if they released games over here less though... which would be unfortanate. But I'm sure Persona, at the very least, would continue.

But don't worry! You'll still get plenty of Hatsune Miku games!

DJ-Lafleur

But seriously though, I do sympathise with Yakuza fans. I have never played the games, but as Tales fan, I know what it's like to have lots of games in my favorite series not localized. But thankfully Namco have been doing good lately though.

But I just found another series to love recently, Shin Megami Tensei. Many people fear that may happen to that series now, since Sega bought Atlus. I really hope they are wrong. But for now I am pretty optimistic about about it.

Atlus is doomed.CarnageHeart

Well didn't they buy the whole company? Was there many/any workers lost in the process? If Atlus still has the same manpower as before, then why exactly are they doomed?

Or do they not have the same manpower? I'm not sure.

Pretty much the games. Though the only console I have bought myself was the 360. Long after the release and during a special sale (I grabbed it for a little over 100 bucks) I live with my brother and he bought the rest of the consoles we play.

But yeah, if I have to buy it, the price will affect when, but I will try to find a way to get it sometime if it has good games.

I'm not a big fan of double jumps. Got nothing against them, I just think they're weird, and platformers are just generally better without them. But some games I love do have them, such as Devil May Cry (as an upgrade), which was already mentioned a few times. There is also Smash Bros. which uses the feature incredably well. As for other games that have it...

Glover

Ratchet and Clank

Yoshi's Story

That's odd. I figure I'd be able to come up with more. I feel like so many games I have played have it, but that's all I can come uo with right now.

Ape Escape and Sonic 3 & Knuckles immediately come to mind in terms of platformers.

Seabas989

True, Sonic 3 and Knuckles has one too. I usually don't don't think of that one though because it's only a temperary power up. But yeah, the double jump is present. And I love it in that game.

well, I think thats all. Good night. (dream of me :))Lulu_Lulu

lol, ok. I've said about all I can on the subject anyway. If we continue I'll just be repeating myself more.

All I ask though is to try to think about what I said before insulting more people who like games with cutscenes. We not "Juvenile" "Illogical" or "Indecisive." You are free to dislike them and think of them as reduntant. But not everybody does. And there is nothing wrong with that. Cutscenes will always have their place. Should they be used less frequently? Maybe. Because there are much more games with them then without them nowadays. But they should never dissapear completely.

Well I think that's all I can say on the subject.

[QUOTE="Bongardo"]

[QUOTE="Lulu_Lulu"] No its not. Adding gameplay to movies would produce the same result, if you disagree then you're just biased, there goes you're only games can do it theory right out the window, I said it before leaching from other mediums is just redundant, atleast Heavy Rain took cutcsenes and made them interactive, simply just adding cutscenes is just lazy and may work wonders for you but does nothing for gaming. Also I think you misinterpreted the point I was trying to make with Heavy Rain so yeah, whatever.

Also go ahead and write a novel about music, or paintings, or dancing, I'm not saying its impossible, I'm saying why try to force these concepts into words, whats the point, if theres medium that represents these things better then stop being such a pain, swallow your pride and use the better option. If a concept from the film medium doesn't transition well to games when you make them interactive then let it go, don't force it in, know matter how much people like it, I'm sure plenty of people would like more pictures and sounds and gameplay in their books but what would be the point in buying a book if you want things from other mediums. People apply this logic everywhere but for some reason when it comes to games they just abandon all common sense and are like "but it wouldnt work that way", well it would, just not for someone who wants passive things in an interactive medium. Also these aren't rules it logic, everything in its place to minimize redundancy. And art is not free, its not an excuse to be ignorant, I'm not saying don't do art, I'm saying once you're done rebelling against common sense to make said art, man up and take your critism like a f#cking man !

I'm not saying Kojima shouldnt make Metal Gear Solid I'm saying when he's done adding gameplay to his movies he doesn't get a free pass on critism by calling it art.

Lulu_Lulu

It's the same as adding gameplay to movies? I guess so yeah. But my point is that it can only be done with the mix. you need the cutscenes and gameplay to come together in the same thing. It's the mix between games and movies that make it what it is. Should it not called "Video games" if it's essentially just a blend between that and another media? No perhaps not. As I have said before, I think a new name would be more apropriate. But they are still called vbideo games, so whatever.

If anyone is "Biased" here it's you. You're the one who refuses to acknowledge the new forms of art that can be created with methods that you just say "Shouldn't be done." You just seem to have it set in your head that cutscenes shouldn't be in games and refuse to see any reason for them You say it's illogical? Why is it illogical if it creates something new and enjoyable?

I don't just like them that way simply because they are video games. Actually there are movies and TV shows that I feel can only be done properly in that media too. Such as many comedies and dramas. Smallville is one of my favorite TV shows, and that story won't work as a video game.

I do enjoy those as well. So no, I am not saying that.

I enjoy movies/TV shows, games, and the mix between the two. They are all capable of providing their own unique experiences.

[QUOTE="Bongardo"] No, it's doing nothing wrong. That mix of cutscenes and gameplay creates something great that can only be done THAT WAY. Video games are the right medium for the games I mentioned, and I explained why. You just refuse to accept it for some reason. It is the right medium because it is the ONLY way to do it. You could make a movie with the same concept, sure, but it wouldn't be the same. If you are going to continue this argument, please explain how at least one of the games I mentioned would work in any other medium. You at least seem familer with Heavy Rain, so how about that one? To be hoenst Tales of Vesperia isn't one of the best examples to use. It is by far the easiest to adapt into a TV series, of the ones I mentioned. Another game in the same series, Tales of the Abyss, had that done and it worked out pretty well actually. However, it is still noteworthy because the show is still missing things. You can't bring in everything. Many conversations and side quests are just very difficult to fit in properly in a show. So the game is still much better. The only thing the show has over it is better animation. The exact same thing would apply for Vesperia. Oh and as for your "writing a novel about music or paintings" comparison... Why? If the writor is able to come up with something good, why not? Why are you making up all these silly rules? Art is supposed to be free, do what you want with it as long it produces something good. Sure it may be difficult to produce something good with that, but if one can do it then that's great. And actually... there is an awesome movie I know of that is based on a song. And that song was based on a picture. It's called Black Rock Shooter. It's an animated Japanese movie. And yes I consider video games an art form. Some games I consider to be fantastic works of art. Such as Catherine. Lulu_Lulu

Also go ahead and write a novel about music, or paintings, or dancing, I'm not saying its impossible, I'm saying why try to force these concepts into words, whats the point, if theres medium that represents these things better then stop being such a pain, swallow your pride and use the better option. If a concept from the film medium doesn't transition well to games when you make them interactive then let it go, don't force it in, know matter how much people like it, I'm sure plenty of people would like more pictures and sounds and gameplay in their books but what would be the point in buying a book if you want things from other mediums. People apply this logic everywhere but for some reason when it comes to games they just abandon all common sense and are like "but it wouldnt work that way", well it would, just not for someone who wants passive things in an interactive medium. Also these aren't rules it logic, everything in its place to minimize redundancy. And art is not free, its not an excuse to be ignorant, I'm not saying don't do art, I'm saying once you're done rebelling against common sense to make said art, man up and take your critism like a f#cking man !

I'm not saying Kojima shouldnt make Metal Gear Solid I'm saying when he's done adding gameplay to his movies he doesn't get a free pass on critism by calling it art.

It's the same as adding gameplay to movies? I guess so yeah. But my point is that it can only be done with the mix. you need the cutscenes and gameplay to come together in the same thing. It's the mix between games and movies that make it what it is. Should it not called "Video games" if it's essentially just a blend between that and another media? No perhaps not. As I have said before, I think a new name would be more apropriate. But they are still called vbideo games, so whatever.

If anyone is "Biased" here it's you. You're the one who refuses to acknowledge the new forms of art that can be created with methods that you just say "Shouldn't be done." You just seem to have it set in your head that cutscenes shouldn't be in games and refuse to see any reason for them You say it's illogical? Why is it illogical if it creates something new and enjoyable?

I don't just like them that way simply because they are video games. Actually there are movies and TV shows that I feel can only be done properly in that media too. Such as many comedies and dramas. Smallville is one of my favorite TV shows, and that story won't work as a video game.

[QUOTE="Bongardo"]

[QUOTE="Lulu_Lulu"] You're still looking at it subjectively, games don't "Need" cutscenes, you do. Whatever the scenario it can be done intetactively, you may not like it, hell even I may not like it, But I won't question its relavence. Much in the same way people hate the QTE's in Heavy Rain, using more cutscenes may make it more enjoyable but it would be less of a game. We can't let sh!t like cutscenes slide because it suits us (you), you're welcome to hate it but you can't deny it, well you can deny it but you'd still be wrong, happy but wrong. Anyway, what games did you have in mind ? Lulu_Lulu

No, some games DO need cutscenes or they will be very different experiences. I talked about that. OK, it's a matter of opinion whether they would be better with or without them, sure. For the same reason it's a matter of opinion whether a movie based on a book is better then the original book. Or a TV series based on game vs the original game. Except some of the games I can think of would not even be CLOSE to the same without the cutscenes. And there are many people, like myself, who enjoy those games exactly as they are. Those scripted stories are a very important part to those experiences. And you just said that I, and even you, may not like it as much with them. If you admit that, why are you arguing? You just admited that cutscenes can improve the experience, didn't you?

What games did I have mind? Well I already talked about Fire Emblem, Catherine and Tales of Vesperia. But heavy Rain is actually another good example. In that game your actions can greatly effect the story's outcome. You can't tell me that would be better off as a movie. It would not even be CLOSE to the same experience. Almost all of it's appeal would be gone.

No, it's doing nothing wrong. That mix of cutscenes and gameplay creates something great that can only be done THAT WAY. Video games are the right medium for the games I mentioned, and I explained why. You just refuse to accept it for some reason. It is the right medium because it is the ONLY way to do it. You could make a movie with the same concept, sure, but it wouldn't be the same. If you are going to continue this argument, please explain how at least one of the games I mentioned would work in any other medium. You at least seem familer with Heavy Rain, so how about that one? 

To be hoenst Tales of Vesperia isn't one of the best examples to use. It is by far the easiest to adapt into a TV series, of the ones I mentioned. Another game in the same series, Tales of the Abyss, had that done and it worked out pretty well actually. However, it is still noteworthy because the show is still missing things. You can't bring in everything. Many conversations and side quests are just very difficult to fit in properly in a show. So the game is still much better. The only thing the show has over it is better animation. The exact same thing would apply for Vesperia.

Oh and as for your "writing a novel about music or paintings" comparison... Why? If the writor is able to come up with something good, why not? Why are you making up all these silly rules? Art is supposed to be free, do what you want with it as long it produces something good. Sure it may be difficult to produce something good with that, but if one can do it then that's great. And actually... there is an awesome movie I know of that is based on a song. And that song was based on a picture. It's called Black Rock Shooter. It's an animated Japanese movie.

And yes I consider video games an art form. Some games I consider to be fantastic works of art. Such as Catherine.

[QUOTE="Bongardo"]

[QUOTE="Lulu_Lulu"] I do understand, what you're talking about is called Ludonarrative Resonance, it took many years for developers to get it right but the finaly did it. Now theres plenty of games where the story/cutscenes resonate well with the gameplay, but cutscenes are still speed bumps, no matter how seemless the transition they still interupt player agency and intetactivity whether you realise/enjoy it or not, they are still just mini movies only difference is now they make more sense and people like'em more, theres already mediums for these types of passive experiences, its redundant to reuse them in an interactive one. Plus you can't be passive and active at the same time, video games that alternate between the two are simply feeding on peoples indeciciveness or short attention span. Nowonder people think gaming is juvenile, because it is, people still think because 90% of of people like it it must be right, its not. But I'm not trying to take that away from anyone, I just want them to give it some proper, logical thought, see if they come up with the same conclusion I did. Lulu_Lulu

"feeding off people indecisiveness and short attention span?" No. I am not indedicive. there is a clear reason why I like games with cutscenes. It's not becasue I can't decide between movies and games. I feel stories are better with interactivity. It doesn't matter if they are not interactive at all times. I still feel more sucked into a story that I can interact with. Especially when my actions effect how the later cutscenes play out. Like when I screw up and a character dies in Fire Emblem, that has an effect on future cutscenes. Or who I manage to find or recruit, it has an effect. Depending on who the characters develop support relationships with, I will see different conversations. And the story needs to be mostly passive or it won't be the same story. And the Fire Emblem Radiant series is one of my favorite stories ever, and it CAN"T be emulated properly as a movie or TV series. It NEEDS to be a game. (Or 2 games in this case)

Or what about any game that has multiple endings or branching paths? How are you going to do that in a TV show or movie? And you can't always just do it without cutscenes. If there are certain stories you want told, you sometimes need cutscenes. There is nothing "juvenile" about it.

I am giving it logical thought. Clearly a lot more thought then you are. How many games with cutscenes did you even play? If you have played the same ones I have, I'm sure you will understand what I am talking about.

No, some games DO need cutscenes or they will be very different experiences. I talked about that. OK, it's a matter of opinion whether they would be better with or without them, sure. For the same reason it's a matter of opinion whether a movie based on a book is better then the original book. Or a TV series based on game vs the original game. Except some of the games I can think of would not even be CLOSE to the same without the cutscenes. And there are many people, like myself, who enjoy those games exactly as they are. Those scripted stories are a very important part to those experiences. And you just said that I, and even you, may not like it as much with them. If you admit that, why are you arguing? You just admited that cutscenes can improve the experience, didn't you?

What games did I have mind? Well I already talked about Fire Emblem, Catherine and Tales of Vesperia. But heavy Rain is actually another good example. In that game your actions can greatly effect the story's outcome. You can't tell me that would be better off as a movie. It would not even be CLOSE to the same experience. Almost all of it's appeal would be gone.