@texasgoldrush: On a side not, how many of Bioware's original developers (from games like Baldur's Gate, KotOR, Jade Empire, DA:Origins) are left at the current bioware team? :D
DrInfected's forum posts
@texasgoldrush said:
@DrInfected said:
@texasgoldrush said:
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@Krelian-co said:
@texasgoldrush said:
@Krelian-co said:
@texasgoldrush said:
@PcGamingRig said:
If DA:I is like DA:O you can consider me excited, but we don't know a lot about it yet.
Witcher 3 all the way atm.
Its not...it looks like Dragon's Dogma with party control. This is what it needs to be.
however, the Witcher 3 will be better. Why?
Because CD Projeckt is making the game they want to make, not pander to the forums like Bioware is now doing. Bioware is now held captive by a narrow minded dense fanbase who only wants and understands clichéd hero storylines and choices with consequences they want. So after the steps taken forward (or the stumble forward) with DA2 and ME3's ending, they revert back to their same conservative self. And DA:I's plot is basically ME3 in Thedas.
Hopefully Bioware's A team, there new IP, will get away from their fanbase and be the game they want it to be.
ah here it is, texasbiowaredickriderextraordinaire, if only "cliched" stories and consequences worked games like the witcher 2 wouldn't have succeded, bioware has received bad feedback about their stories and consequences because their last games have bad ones, including dragon age 2 and mass effect 3, different does not mean better, they were just bad, period.
Now feel free to bring the tears and spam this thread with 20 replies/page thinking that because i will ignore you after this you "won" this argument xD.
No, the fanbase is really too stupid to see that the choices, especially the last one in ME3, were foreshadowed and touched upon all series long. the truth is, unlike Witcher fans, Bioware fans hate no win choices, where none of the consequences are ideal while The Witcher actually attacks "choice", "choice" is a bad thing. Bioware fans want complete ownership of the story and Bioware simply won't and shouldn't do it, and when they don't get the choice and consequence they want, they whine and cry over BSN.
And really, ME3's final choice fit the themes of the entire series, the fanbase they have is too dumb to see it, this is a fact.
And you still think I am a Biodrone, wow, don't have children, you will lower the IQ of the world.
ah another dumb texas post excusing the joke "choices" and terrible ending from mass effect.
Refer to witcher 2 on how to make real meaningful choices that affect the world more than a different line of dialogue and that are actually in line with geralt and the world. Keep the tears flowing and the bad excuses, texasclown.
So can Triss, Zoltan, and Dandelion die from the choices Geralt makes, or do they have plot armor? Hell, Roche, Iorveth, and Ves are plot armor too. Not so in Mass Effect 3, where any character can die. So while TW2 has more plot altering choices, ME3 has more choices that affect the characters.
And praising TW2 for meaningful choices while bashing ME3's ending makes you a huge hypocrite because really, the original TW2 ending, none of your choices matter. The ending was the same, Witcher and pals walk out of Loc Muinne in three different combos (similar to RGB in ME3), no matter your choices all throughout the game. So basically CDProjeckt and Bioware committed the very same errors when it comes to the ending of their game, and both had to flesh their endings out in a free download to add more context and show the consequences of your actions (and really, I would not be surprised if Bioware looked at how TW2 fixed their ending when developing ME3's Extended Cut). Just like Bioware, CDP overpromised and under delivered on the ending to TW2, the only difference is Witcher fans are mature enough to not go insane on the boards.
And please explain to me how ME3's choices are "jokes"? Sorry, they are not, they are consistent with the universe of ME3 and the character of Shepard. Your hate dumb is showing again.
oh dear, your statement is wrong on some many levels that I dunno where to start honestly,
I hope you're joking but if not:
1. Geralt is not goddamned center of the universe like Sherpard. He's story is about one mutant who cannot stop changes that occurs around him, only watch them and try to survive/save his loved ones and friends. Other characters are not dumb, they don't have to be saved by Geralt all the time, sometimes they have to save him. It's much more realistic,
2. Also, friendly reminder: there is no total war with Genocidal Living Robots Build To Protect Everyone By Killing Them Off ® (driven by shitty logic "MUH Solution"), so I see no reason for every character to be killed. By the way - how many characters do you considered "plot armored" in, for example, DA:O, where there are no robots either? :)
3. On the other hand - suggestion that you measure quality of writing by number of killable main characters is REALLY dumb. I'm still hoping you were joking :)
4. Choices =/= ending. That's what's wrong with bioware last games. Almost none of your choices matters throughout the game. You killed Rachni Queen in ME1? Doesn't matter, we'll resurrect another zombie-Rachni Queen for ME3. You decide to destroy Collectors Base? Only difference is that you see heart instead of brain in Cerberus Base. And last example is specially for you since you seem to adore killing off characters as plot device: someone from your crew died in ME2? Doesn't matter - you'll get some generic replacement for his side-quest. On the other hand The Witcher choices affect story, but not immidately. Sometimes small choice like letting some random elves steal few crates of something which seems to be meaningless could turn out to be crucial few hours later. After this time it's impossible to just load the game like in many bioware titles (by the way - I played them all, I was big fan of ME trilogy) you have to live with consequences.
5.. About endings and consequences - your choices are meaningless in BW games because you almost always can choose your ending in the end of the game. You played full anti-sintetic playthrough? No problem, you can still choose merge because why not (also "MUH happy Joker"). Endings in both W1 & W2 are combined from choices you did earlier.
6. I agree with you about that rage after ME3 ending was insanity. BW fans should let them make their own games instead of constantly demanding something
1. You are cherry picking. Many times, Shepard cannot stop whats happening around him and he cannot prevent certain events. he too, has to be saved by others. You are going nowhere with this argument. You claim that Geralt isn't the center of the universe, but Shepard is...sorry, but its more like the opposite because Mass Effect has an expanded universe. Geralt is definitely the center of TW3, and his personal story is more important this time around.
2. Only two in DAO, down to none of them in expansions, although Anders, Leliana and Morrigan will always "survive". In ME2 (except Joker) and ME3 anyone can die.
3. No, but I am saying that while choices in Witcher games have more plot impact, Mass Effect choices have more character impact.
4. Cherry picking once again. What about Ashley or Kaiden? That's a whole exclusive party member you don't see in ME3 if they die in ME1. Wrex's survival in ME1? It only determines the direction the Krogans are led and what their possible future is. Did you save the data in Mordin's quest in ME2? If you didn't, Eve will die. And you can only save Mordin if Wrex and Eve are dead. And that whole Rannoch arc? Many choices factor in to that outcome, both from ME2 and ME3. The Collector Base makes a huge impact in lower EMS games. And like the Witcher games, ME3 also has delayed consequences. Betray Wrex? He will come try and kill you much later in the game. Don't warn Miranda about Kai Leng early in the game? She gets killed later. Treat Ashley poorly on Mars? You may have to shoot her later. You are cherry picking. I can easily say that the save import from TW1 and TW2 is crap, because NONE of your choices mattered. Romance Shani in the first game? Too bad, you have Triss in TW2.
And wrong again, you do not get some generic replacement if a crew member does not make it through ME2, you get the polar opposite or mostly no replacement at all.....let see. Wrex gets Wreav, the complete opposite of a character. Mordin gets replaced by Padok Wiks, another opposite and Padok Wiks is a great character in his own right. Miranda, Jack, Thane, Jacob, and Samara do not get replacements, which affect those missions, especially Jack and Thane. Not having Kasumi and Zaeed shuts off the best outcome of those quests. Tali and Legion? Don't have them, no peace. The ONLY character that gets a generic stand in is Grunt. More cherry picking.
5. This was true until finally ME3's Extended Cut and also DAO, where the ending was the outcomes of your past choices mixed in with the final choice. Nevermind that EMS matters in the ending as well, so if you rush the game, you get cinderblock galaxy.
Stop cherry picking your argument.
1. I meant that Shepard is the center of his universe because everything is revolving around him/her. Also Shepard is way more too powerful. While Geralt is hell of a dangerous mutant that lost only one duel in his life (duel,. not fight :P) he's unable to change the world with only one sword. Shepard on the other hand with 2 damn companions at a time is able to wreck everyone in the galaxy including destroying the biggest ship in enemy fleet (ME3) from inside. Ship full of super-inteligent A.I. as I recall. Tell me about plot armor ;) Not to mention that in the end he/she "suprisingly" have to choose the future for the entire galaxy. But nah, he's not the center of the galaxy at all. While story of Geralt is a main focus of the game, the world do not revolve around him
Another thing you got wrong is size of universes. TW world is based on 8 official books, comics, even series (shitty but still...) countless more or less official side stories and even more fan stories that have been writen for last 28 years. On the other hand you got ME universe which has only 7 years, and besides few novels (Revelation was great, Deception is damn terrible so their quality varies :) ) and comics it has mostly really trash fanfiction made by fanbase. And trust me I know that fanbase cause I was part of it for a long time and I know what it's all about. Sex. It's funny how TW is sometimes smacked for some sexual themes etc. while most important thing to BW games fanbase is who will sleep with who. Damn they made clamsy bisexual (not his orientation is a problem but his character that has been changed drastically) out of Kaidan just to please fans hunger for another romance.
tl;dr - ME universe is too young to even stand a chance in competing with TWu and immature, fanatical fanbase is unable to fill this gap.
2. Honestly you got me there cause I didn't know that someone can die in DA:O (except for a Qunari who I left in cage thinking "When I'll be passing through this village next time I'll get him" in my 1st playthrough). But in ME - enyone can die but it is known fact. You are ready for it and you know that you just need to complete as many quests as posible to avoid it. Damn, they even added a frickin bar indicating whether you're going to save everyone or not :) While in ME2 their deaths are connected with their side quests (stiff system but not bad) in 3rd installment it's purely matter of doing all the quests (or playing multiplayer).
3. And I cannot disagree with that.
4. It's not cherry picking. Ashley-Kaidan. In ME1 this choice did matter (or should I say "didn't" since 90% of players choose Ashley :P) but in ME3? It would be more visible if their personalities weren't turn to shit. While Kaidan was and is a total bro (I discovered it in about 3rd playthrough when I finally left Ash on Virmire) Ashley, my favorite character from ME1 in case of personality turn into Nikki Minaj-tier plastic surgery mutant with super-effective move called "being annoying". Most of dead characters who are replace can alter universe in some way but you are not able to feel it in terms of gameplay. What's the difference in playthrough of Wrex or Grunt missions other than that you have to hear annoying Wreav instead of Wrex(except situation with Mordin which I'll adress later)? Collector Base have a huge impact on EMS? You mean you either get 100 or 110 points? Really? Getting those EMS would be easy enough even without those leftovers. While saving Mordin could be tempting (thou I think it was a good way to die) it doesn't change that much. Either way you can cure or do not cure genophage, only difference would be a different amount of WA in the end (funny thing is that when you kill Wrex afterwards you do not even loose most crogan support, only Wrex-centered core). I could that like that on and on but it's time to get to the point. They ruined sense of immersion and meaning of your choices that you can feel (slightly but you can) in previous ME games by adding this stupid WA system. "Hey! We were too busy writing terrible fanfiction tier romances so instead of changes in gameplay you'll get those tiny little points each time you decide something. In the end if you gather enough of those choices you can choose one of RGB endings, if not we'll choose ending for you. Have fun <3"
While on personal interaction level (like warning Miranda to prevent her death) there's no problem for me - I would definitely would like to see more impact in case of anything else. Rachni/Salarian/Terminus/everybody else except Human/Turian/Asari/Geth/Quarian combo (which all go their ships models created in previous games so BW is going full lazy right here). Decision in Legion ME2 Quest resulting in changes of whole Rannoch arc(other than number of points in the end)?
Also - Kasumi & Zaeed don't count unless you want to smack BW/EA for that you need to pay several times for the game you bought already because of stupid DLC policy (TW games always have free DLCs :P) It's obvious that their quests are not included if they are dead/not bought.
5. I wish what you say about ME3 EE was the truth but unfortunately it's still matter of final choice since EE lowered minimum requirement for happy ending so now it's so low that you can get it without much efford (even thou multiplayer is probably not as populated now as it was).
Fun fact: this tread is about TW3 vs DA:I and we use it to discuss TW vs ME :D
I want one thing to be clear. I loved ME. I have all the games, 3 books, all reasonable DLCs, I value Bioware for what they've done in the past (KotOR is probably still my favorite all-time RPG), I wasted many hours of my life wrecking shit up in BG. But as much as I wish it won't I'm sure, looking at their current record (DA2, ME3, SWTOR) that DA:I will be shit at best worth piratig(I'll probably get ME4 thou). Not only gameplay looks exactly the same as DA2 but I already see that they are going to use this "gather allies, destroy evil" shit again (it's their main theme since DA:O with little exception for ME2 which reminded me more of a KotORs "pursue evil, gather team on the way") and fill it with shallow dialoges with shallow characters(romanciable ofc!) and as much fanservice as possible (just friendly reminder: when ME3 script leaked, one of the most common reactions was "hurr durr where is my marriage with Tali ;/" so they changed plans about Quarians and made hot space chick out of them using some model face from google search). On they other hand I got TW3. I played TW1 after ME3 when I thought there can be no competetor to Bioware even thou they are lowering their standards. And I was shocked that some guys who I heard started from translating hacked games to their language created solid RPG where choices were something else than way to squize tears from fans (Mordin ;( ) and add +2 to blue line indicating you are idealist. Second one was even better so I'm sure third one will not dissapoint me. By thetime i wrote this post i realized that it's really a matter of company, not universe. I lost any kind of trust to BW while CDPR never dissapointed me. Therefore I choose Witcher :P
I think neither I can convince you nor you can convince me, so let's just drop it. Have fun playing DA, if you like other BW games I think you'll have a great time, peace :D
@texasgoldrush said:
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@Krelian-co said:
@texasgoldrush said:
@Krelian-co said:
@texasgoldrush said:
@PcGamingRig said:
If DA:I is like DA:O you can consider me excited, but we don't know a lot about it yet.
Witcher 3 all the way atm.
Its not...it looks like Dragon's Dogma with party control. This is what it needs to be.
however, the Witcher 3 will be better. Why?
Because CD Projeckt is making the game they want to make, not pander to the forums like Bioware is now doing. Bioware is now held captive by a narrow minded dense fanbase who only wants and understands clichéd hero storylines and choices with consequences they want. So after the steps taken forward (or the stumble forward) with DA2 and ME3's ending, they revert back to their same conservative self. And DA:I's plot is basically ME3 in Thedas.
Hopefully Bioware's A team, there new IP, will get away from their fanbase and be the game they want it to be.
ah here it is, texasbiowaredickriderextraordinaire, if only "cliched" stories and consequences worked games like the witcher 2 wouldn't have succeded, bioware has received bad feedback about their stories and consequences because their last games have bad ones, including dragon age 2 and mass effect 3, different does not mean better, they were just bad, period.
Now feel free to bring the tears and spam this thread with 20 replies/page thinking that because i will ignore you after this you "won" this argument xD.
No, the fanbase is really too stupid to see that the choices, especially the last one in ME3, were foreshadowed and touched upon all series long. the truth is, unlike Witcher fans, Bioware fans hate no win choices, where none of the consequences are ideal while The Witcher actually attacks "choice", "choice" is a bad thing. Bioware fans want complete ownership of the story and Bioware simply won't and shouldn't do it, and when they don't get the choice and consequence they want, they whine and cry over BSN.
And really, ME3's final choice fit the themes of the entire series, the fanbase they have is too dumb to see it, this is a fact.
And you still think I am a Biodrone, wow, don't have children, you will lower the IQ of the world.
ah another dumb texas post excusing the joke "choices" and terrible ending from mass effect.
Refer to witcher 2 on how to make real meaningful choices that affect the world more than a different line of dialogue and that are actually in line with geralt and the world. Keep the tears flowing and the bad excuses, texasclown.
So can Triss, Zoltan, and Dandelion die from the choices Geralt makes, or do they have plot armor? Hell, Roche, Iorveth, and Ves are plot armor too. Not so in Mass Effect 3, where any character can die. So while TW2 has more plot altering choices, ME3 has more choices that affect the characters.
And praising TW2 for meaningful choices while bashing ME3's ending makes you a huge hypocrite because really, the original TW2 ending, none of your choices matter. The ending was the same, Witcher and pals walk out of Loc Muinne in three different combos (similar to RGB in ME3), no matter your choices all throughout the game. So basically CDProjeckt and Bioware committed the very same errors when it comes to the ending of their game, and both had to flesh their endings out in a free download to add more context and show the consequences of your actions (and really, I would not be surprised if Bioware looked at how TW2 fixed their ending when developing ME3's Extended Cut). Just like Bioware, CDP overpromised and under delivered on the ending to TW2, the only difference is Witcher fans are mature enough to not go insane on the boards.
And please explain to me how ME3's choices are "jokes"? Sorry, they are not, they are consistent with the universe of ME3 and the character of Shepard. Your hate dumb is showing again.
oh dear, your statement is wrong on some many levels that I dunno where to start honestly,
I hope you're joking but if not:
1. Geralt is not goddamned center of the universe like Sherpard. He's story is about one mutant who cannot stop changes that occurs around him, only watch them and try to survive/save his loved ones and friends. Other characters are not dumb, they don't have to be saved by Geralt all the time, sometimes they have to save him. It's much more realistic,
2. Also, friendly reminder: there is no total war with Genocidal Living Robots Build To Protect Everyone By Killing Them Off ® (driven by shitty logic "MUH Solution"), so I see no reason for every character to be killed. By the way - how many characters do you considered "plot armored" in, for example, DA:O, where there are no robots either? :)
3. On the other hand - suggestion that you measure quality of writing by number of killable main characters is REALLY dumb. I'm still hoping you were joking :)
4. Choices =/= ending. That's what's wrong with bioware last games. Almost none of your choices matters throughout the game. You killed Rachni Queen in ME1? Doesn't matter, we'll resurrect another zombie-Rachni Queen for ME3. You decide to destroy Collectors Base? Only difference is that you see heart instead of brain in Cerberus Base. And last example is specially for you since you seem to adore killing off characters as plot device: someone from your crew died in ME2? Doesn't matter - you'll get some generic replacement for his side-quest. On the other hand The Witcher choices affect story, but not immidately. Sometimes small choice like letting some random elves steal few crates of something which seems to be meaningless could turn out to be crucial few hours later. After this time it's impossible to just load the game like in many bioware titles (by the way - I played them all, I was big fan of ME trilogy) you have to live with consequences.
5.. About endings and consequences - your choices are meaningless in BW games because you almost always can choose your ending in the end of the game. You played full anti-sintetic playthrough? No problem, you can still choose merge because why not (also "MUH happy Joker"). Endings in both W1 & W2 are combined from choices you did earlier.
6. I agree with you about that rage after ME3 ending was insanity. BW fans should let them make their own games instead of constantly demanding something
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