Saints Row 2, in my opinion, is one of the best co-op games ever made. Incredible amounts of fun things you can do with a friend. So outrageous, and hilarious. And all the character customization is crazy.

SR2 has gotten more attention and acknowledgement in the past year because of the coverage of SR3, but two years ago, when the game was new, everyone who didn't play it dismissed it as a junky GTA clone.

Wow, so much of this discussion is about minute technical details in the sim aspect of the racing.I turn off all assists in Forza 4, and go for the sim experience, and i've never felt like, damn! this isnt simmy enough! I want GT5 instead!

Though I did miss having a clutch, and proper cockpit views when I played GT5 last summer.

I would like to see someone who's played both FM4 and GT5 extensively, to look me in the eye, with a straight face, and tell me that GT5 was more fun, enjoyable, and entertaining to play than FM4. To me, that's much more important than obscure technical details that never even cross my mind while I play. And it is to anyone else who isn't kidding themselves.

In FM4 I can barely keep from wiping out when I race any cars above A class, with the assists turn off. And I have enough parts and settings to tweak with for hours. It's as simmy as I need it to be, and then some.

Take it from someone who's played every Gran Turismo and every Forza, the year they were released. With Forza 4, Turn 10 now has the best sim console franchise.