[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

But not so open-minded that your brain falls out.

Theokhoth

Yeah I saw a conservative bumper sticker that said the same thing about 'liberals.' That was the only clever conservative bumper sticker I've seen in all my years on this earth...:P

It was probably about political correctness, in which case I completely agree with it.

I agree. You can be respectful without resorting to socially accepted requirements that only serve to piss off everyone who actually uses them...:)

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

All belief systems, including atheism, aren't healthy to hold too dear. My advice: stay open-minded, kid. ;)

Theokhoth

But not so open-minded that your brain falls out.

Yeah I saw a conservative bumper sticker that said the same thing about 'liberals.' That was the only clever conservative bumper sticker I've seen in all my years on this earth...:P

I support some libertarian beliefs, particularly on the economy. However, I am not a libertarian. I am a conservative and support the government's role in enforcing universal authoritarian moral law and regulating economy only so much as to promote a free market.Genetic_Code

Authoritarian moral law doesn't sound very individualistic to me...let alone voluntaristic. To each his own, I suppose...:)

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"] You don't understand individualism. Individualism is the freedom for the individual to do as he pleases so as long as it doesn't conflict with other individual's rights. Going to Internet forums and town hall meetings aren't collectivists. These social activities are done to promote individualism, because the individual is free to be sociable. [QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

Genetic_Code

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

Hot-Tamale

You're suggesting voluntarism, I realize that. But guess what. Community involvement cuts productivity to less than a third of what it would be under mandates. Here's the research, http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/data_access/data/datasets/social_capital_community_survey.html

I've even heard Libertarians talk about voluntary taxes, *facepalm :lol:.

Anyway, nothing can be done in one person's self-interest without someone else losing something, which is why true mutualism is a myth (someone had to get taken advantage of somewhere along the scale of making a product or providing a service). That is why individualism cannot be practiced as it is idealistically typified.

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

I don't like the reasoning behind Libertarian beliefs nor do I like its core of individualist philosophy.

tycoonmike

Same. The thing that gets me about Libertarians is that they preach individualism (which already is inherently unhealthy and unnatural - humans are social animals and will always perform better in groups), but then they go on internet forums and to town hall meetings and engage in groupthink. Of course, groupthink is the OPPOSITE of what the supposed 'Libertarians' believe in; it's collectivism.

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

The nice thing is that you can get all of that under the libertarian banner with L. Socialism. That's primarily why I don't identify fully with the mainstream Libertarian platform.

That's a little too idealistic for me. Also, the unfortunate truth is that freedom and equality ARE mutually exclusive, and we need to find the ideal balance to match our society's mores. Of course, our mores can change at any given moment, but the possibility is always there. :)

All belief systems, including atheism, aren't healthy to hold too dear. My advice: stay open-minded, kid. ;)

I don't like the reasoning behind Libertarian beliefs nor do I like its core of individualist philosophy.

Theokhoth

Same. The thing that gets me about Libertarians is that they preach individualism (which already is inherently unhealthy and unnatural - humans are social animals and will always perform better in groups), but then they go on internet forums and to town hall meetings and engage in groupthink. Of course, groupthink is the OPPOSITE of what the supposed 'Libertarians' believe in; it's collectivism.

Another point of contradiction is the belief of Libertarians in the rational market. They advocate many personal freedoms, which require a positive view of humanity, and that humans are rational (hence the myth of the 'rational' market, the building block of the Austrian school and the backbone of modern laissez-faire Capitalism). Of course, they have a positive view of human nature, but then they go around talking about how they need their guns to protect themselves from everyone else. :lol:

In addition, these are the kind of people you find in suburbs and semirural areas because they want to "get away from it all." I wouldn't call it sociopathic, but there's a definitve distrust of society at large at work there. Plus, urban sprawl causes pollution, environmental degradation, ugliness, and long commute times; not to mention Walmarts and other big-box stores moving in to service these reclusive people. Libertarians are simply not rational people. And don't get me started on the gold standard...:roll:

We need a fair balance between individual responsibility and obligation to community in this country. Or else, nothing will change. Nothing.

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Iron Maiden, and I even like metalcore more than metal but I can say without question Iron Maiden is the best of both. (Definitely not lyrically tho IMO)

ANYONE can listen to and appreciate Iron Maiden.

As for my favorite core bands: Attack Attack!, The Devil Wears Prada, old Destroy the Runner, and August Burns Red.

Darth-Caedus

and what's the difference between 'metal' and 'metalcore' then? :roll:

and what's the MUSICAL difference between metal, metalcore, and hardcore?

[QUOTE="Film-Guy"]

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"] I really like Cynic, and Ayreon is good too. Anathema is definitely down my alley but I'm just not fond of their music. My ex-girlfriend is though. :P Shadow Gallery is okay, but I don't care for Fates Warning or Mind's Eye. For Progressive Metal I'm more into the extreme stuff. The clean vocals used in bands like Fates Warning turn me off instantly. Progressive Death like Opeth, Ikuinen Kaamos, and Mirrorthrone, and Progressive Black like Mirrorthrone, Enslaved, and similar artists are much more appealing to me. Progressive Tech is good too, like Behold...the Arctopus (sometimes they tread into fusion jazz territory). Isis is a band I strongly dislike. I don't like post-metal. The majority of it is too rigidly constructed and linear for my tastes. Progressive is the exact opposite. It's nonlinear and fairly free-form. Isis isn't what I'd call a premier band in the genre either.Saturos3091

What about the Clean vocals turn you off? Im just curious, Im not so into the extreme stuff so its probably just a difference in musical tastes. I am trying to expand my tastes more though so I will check out the bands you mentioned. What do you think of Green Carnation? They mix some of the extreme sound with other sounds, if you dont know them you might like them. They did a CD that was one 60 minute long track called Light of day day of darkness. you might also like Thordendal's special defects, the drummer is from Meshuggah. I like Burst,Spheric Univers experience, OSI, Evergrey, Edge of sanity, diabolical masquerade, sigh, Deathspell omega, and dodheimsgard. See I am expanding a bit:P, I am trying to get into Scandinavian metal

I suppose we can agree on Green Carnation...:roll:

However much I dislike LaBrie's nasaly vocals, you can't hate Geoff Tate. That guy's got to be the best singer in metal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG8TmjrHq20

Iron Maiden, and I even like metalcore more than metal but I can say without question Iron Maiden is the best of both. (Definitely not lyrically tho IMO)

ANYONE can listen to and appreciate Iron Maiden.

As for my favorite core bands: Attack Attack!, The Devil Wears Prada, old Destroy the Runner, and August Burns Red.

battlefront23

and what's the difference between 'metal' and 'metalcore' then? :roll: