Far from it.Only history will judge George W. Bush's legacy.

Remember Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon?

Well, I was going to choose the topic for our next discussion, but I've decided that it'd be a better idea for another user to start Day 2. That way, we can keep things different everyday.

If we continue this can the next Philosophy thread be about logic and reason.

Mercenary848

I was planning on having a vote.
I'd like everyone to post what they would like tomorrow's discussion to be about at the bottom of your comments. I'll count which topic was mentioned the most and introduce it later on. So far that's one for logic and reason.
If anyone has any other ideas of how future dicussion should be held, please feel free to comment.

So what about this:
Does anyone here believe that certain things in this world happen at random?

If a murderer goes on a killing spree and chooses his victim at random, was it ever random?
If someone chooses random numbers for the lottery, and wins, was it ever random?

Who knows? The point I was trying to make though is that you can't call people weak who believe in religion if their belief was simply the result of cause and effect and not the result of their own free will. Right?

Decessus

Ah, you make a good point.
Frankly, I'm at the point in my life where I believe in ideas according to my circumstances. If something terrible happens, I'll believe in destiny. If something incredible happens, I'll believe in fate. If my life takes me nowhere, I'll believe in stimuli-response/cause and effect. I just need something to believe in.

I'll never blame anything on destiny or fate cause that just sounds like a way for superstitious people to shift away blame from themselves.

Hungry_bunny

I've thought about that a lot. Sometimes I think people create these ideas to relieve themselves from a depression over a lost loved one, anger over a failed attempt, or disappointment over what could've been. Their excuse for everything is simply, "it was meant to be."

Life is full of sadness, anger, and disappointment. I'm searching for something to believe in so that I too can relieve myself.

[QUOTE="Losarii"][QUOTE="bigdrew172"]

However, the real question is could we have choose to do something different if we have wanted to?

bigdrew172

If we choose something "different," who's to say that it was ever different to begin with.

Do you care to elaborate? I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. I'm going to take a stab at what I think you are asking and if I'm wrong just let me know. Its not a matter of if we did choose something different cause if we did then we'd be left with the same question. Its more of a question on whether or not it was possible for us to have made a left opposed to a right, even though we did choose to go right. I mean if we played out the exact same scenario with the exact same mindset 100 times will there ever be a time when you would have gone left instead of right? If yes then we have freewill, if not we dont.

However, the real question is could we have choose to do something different if we have wanted to?

bigdrew172

If we choose something "different," who's to say that it was ever different to begin with.

[QUOTE="Losarii"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

Perhaps the more knowledge you acquire, the more free will you gain.

Decessus

I like that perspective.

It seems to make at least some sense to me, although that certainly doesn't mean it's true.

You never answered my question from before though. If everything is the result of a cause and effect relationship like you believe, then wouldn't the creation of religion also be the result of cause and effect?

Oh, I must've missed that. Cause and effect: those are exactly the words I wanted to use to define what I meant by stimuli-response.
I suppose you make a good point, the creation of religion, in my perspective, must be the result of cause and effect.
Perhaps the cause/stimuli was humanity's sense of loneliness and the result/response was the creation of religion.

Perhaps the more knowledge you acquire, the more free will you gain.

Decessus

I like that perspective.