1) Baldur's Gate 3

2) Neverwinter Nights 3 (with an optional first person view. Its silly that you can zoom in so close that your characters torso takes up most of the screen, yet you can't go one step further into first person view)

3) Thief 4

4) Thief 5

As a former EQ player I can honestly say that EQ epitomized everything that I now hate about the MMORPG genre. I wouldn't play that game for a salary.

I had a 52nd level Dwarven Cleric on Tallon Zek. Yes, I quit before the level cap, if that makes me less hardcore you have my apologies.

Dire_Weasel

Just what is it about EQ that "epitomized" everything you hate about the genre?

Here also are two absolutely true stories that absolutely did happen to me exactly like this in Everquest - experiences that WoW, Warhammer and Lotro could never let you experience because those games just aren't in depth, rich and varied enough.

1) A high level friend gave me quite a bit of money and after I bought some decent gear I started doing /shouts for low level players interested in taking part in a Battle Royale, with the last man standing getting about 100plat. Not much by todays standards but back then, for a lowbie, that was worth a few minutes pvp fun. About 6 people were interested and we all headed to one of the cities arenas. There was a box sitting off to the side on the arena floor. The battle began and it became clear that a ranger with better gear than everyone was going to win - since the others didn't think to examine him and then team up against him. Eventually the ranger had killed everyone and approached me saying "right where's my money?" But then the box sitting off to the side turned back into an enchanter class player. Who unleashed all her spells on the weakened ranger - who swiftly died. The enchanter won!!

2) I was adventuring with some guildees in an Ice dungeon and we were up on a ledge above a pit with some nasties down in it. We ended up getting too many mobs and after I healed I had to put up my invulnerability shield, that lasts 18 seconds. Just then the wizard guildee casted evac (group teleport). But unbeknown to me, the invulnerability shield protects you from all damage and ALL magic. So I was left behind. So there I am standing on this ledge with about 8 ice spiders hacking away at me and my invulnerability slowly ticking away. Amazingly I had a good idea. I jumped into the pit, protected from the landing by the shield, and as the 8 spiders started their long decent down the paths into the pit, gathering more and more mobs in a massive train of mobs coming to kill me, I managed to root the ice spider, down in the pit that I'd bumped into, I backed away from it. Sat down, opened my spellbook, memorised the Gate spell, stood up and casted..... Shazam! I'm standing outside the dungeon safe.

You just don't get that kind of thing in War(hammer) of Warcraft or Lotro, or AoC, or anything else i've played

If you see passed the graphics that, aren't bad just aren't anywhere near as good as the newer MMOs you'd find such great features as:

Invisibility potions are cheap and last about 25mins real time (none of that 15second invis crap form WoW)

The spells are far more varied and indepth - like Invisibility against undead that clerics get, greater view distance for rangers, levitation, a few different classes get water breathing, mana regen buffs, powerful strength, agility, dexterity, stamina buffs

Spellcasters can change their respawn location to anywhere by casting Affinity Binding - even just outside or even inside a dungeon sometimes. These casters can also cast Gate at any time that lets them return to their bindpoint

There is a buff business - because some of the buffs last over an hour, some people will actually pay you for the buff, aswell as since many of the high level buffs can take hold on lower levels. A low level with a level 40 cleric temperance spell (800hp, 50AC) becomes almost indestructible for over an hour.

Your new spells have to be found and bought - sometimes from different rare places - sometimes they even have to be crafted by other players - This I feel adds a kind of excitement about FINALLY getting hold of that spell you've wanted for so long

There is a buff called Spirit of the Wolf (SoW) aswell as some others that increases movement speed - they all last at least 25mins - great for travelling and getting places fast

Bards have group invisibility songs they can play and at higher levels they have... The Travel Song - super movement speed for the group, invisibility and levitation (such that when you go over an edge you gently float down) for the whole group

The lore is the richest lore I've found in an MMO

Most gear can be used then given to someone else to be reused - except some of the newer more powerful stuff. So you can give your new main all your old main's gear to use, or give a friend your old armour or even just sell it on

Wizards and druids can teleport their group to loads of places at will. Great for escaping tricky situations, great for travelling. Wizards can even teleport player targets by themselves (if they accept). So you could see a wizard somewhere and ask him nicely to send you to the main player hub

There actually is underwater content - dungeons underwater

They have something called AA when you reach 51. Which means you can channel as much of your exp as you want into the AA power. (which is a bit like the WoW talent tree) The EQ AA is far more varied with a greater selection of excellent abilities. Also you could channel 100% of your gained experience in AA and stop levelling up - but still be getting stronger - so you could stay in range of a lower level friend who perhaps couldn't play as much

The list goes on.....

My life revolves around games and movies. I don't have much of real life. I love Star Trek deeply so the concepts from that is imprinted on my subconcious mind - like the holodeck that was mentioned earlier in this chain of posts. I have also been gifted with being able to dream about whatever I spend all day doing - probably because I don't have real life concerns to distract me from the world of fantasy. I have been in virtual reality Everquest and WoW and Thief: The Dark Project and I have to say it is the most content I have ever been. Not even the most uplifting drug could beat how good it feels to play an MMO in virtual reality. The only problems I think are the method of the virtual reality. When you dream about it - I'd compare it to being like the matrix and plugging yourself in - but its only a dream and is actually healthy. But being awake and in the real world and uploading your brain to a game (or downloading the game to your brain) seems dangerous to me. Its messing with your brain - messing with your brain chemistry. It wouldn't surprise me, if this method was developed in the near future, that there would be alot of damage done to people's brains as a result. Maybe one day when science completely understands the brain and brainwaves then it would be possible.... A Star Trek Holodeck on the other hand would be perfect. Holograms that you can actually touch would in essence be real. You would actually be there, actually doing the things in the game - you aren't messing with brain chemistry or brain wave signals. But holodeck technology seems like pure fantasy. I doubt they could create that for centuries (though who knows - with the rate the human race has begun advancing). What I could imagine, for VR in the near future, would be something like in the movie Virtuosity (with Denzel Washington and Russel Crowe). In that you are suspended in a harness so you can move your legs and arms freely and you wear something like a traditional VR helmet - though the graphics were just like the real world. This I could see being developed without trouble and, in my dreams, I have played this already in an amusement arcade.... And it was good!

One thing I worry about though is that, while some people say the violence in movies and games is what is causing the violence in todays society - I think that's nonsense - but in VR...... Don't you think sneaking up behind people and slitting their throats or shooting them in the face with your magnum would have a profound psychological effect on people? Desensitizing them to violence to the extreme. I'd expect alot more maniacs and serial killers to be created - with their minds having been warped from snapping necks as Solid Snake and cleaning up bloodstains as Garret

These games must have slipped everyone's mind: You should definately play Baldur's Gate 1 and the Tales of the Sword Coast expansion. Baldur's Gate 2 and the Throne of Bhaal Expansion and Icewind Dale 1 and the Heart of Winter expansion and Icewind Dale 2. They all only need 1 copy as there's no cd key. Though you'll need a "no cd" program to play it on one of the machines. Just look at the reviews for Baldur's Gate 2 - Gamespot and about 85% of the player reviews all give it 10/10 in score. Most of the people replying to your question must be part of the "Young Team" who missed playing those games :O

For me the perfect MMORPG would have a large team of programmers and skilled story writers constantly working behind the scenes in order to make changes to the game world based on the actions of the players. This may be too expensive and too time consuming but surely if those changes were made based on what the majority of players had done it would not be too overwhelming an undertaking. Also if it was possible to make game mechanics that allowed the game to be reshapeable without the need for constant patching of the files. The reason why I think this would be good would be that the world would feel more alive. I find it rather disappointing that when I rescue some guy from somewhere that 2 years down the line that exact same quest is still there and nothing has really changed in the world. I accept that quests would have to be available for other players but surely after a certain number of players have dealt with such a quest in such a way then the designers could make some sort of change to the world to reflect the consequences of the majority of players actions. Yes people starting to play after a change would have maybe missed out on an excellent quest chain but surely some skilled story writers would come up with equally exciting future quest chains - born of how the majority of players dealt with the previous quests.

I am not aware of any MMORPG's like this but are there any that I just haven't heard of yet. I wouldn't have thought so otherwise why isn't it the most popular MMO out there?

PS: Some climbing mechanics like Thief 1 & 2 would be great aswell. With the ability to climb up ledges that you can reach the top of if you jump high enough. And being able to tie ropes onto things so you can climb down somewhere or allow someone down there to climb up - and grappling hooks. You gotta love throwing a grappling hook over a wall then climbing up the wall. To anyone who thinks such gameplay mechanics wouldn't work - I suggest you try having some fun with Thief 1 and 2 and the excellent rope arrows!