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TacticalElefant

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#1 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts

I don't understand why some even bothered keeping they're Wii when they're second guessing it, and dwelling on it's capabilities compared to 360 or PS3. "It's the gameplay, it's the gameplay." Apparently not. And what controversy are we speaking of? Nintendo was open from the beginning about it's performance, not like they pulled one over on everyone like Sony...

MedicMike66


Problem is Nintendo has been so hush hush about it.  Sure it "isn't about the graphics" but a decent jump from previous generation is a desirable outcome.  A game like Metroid should get the benefits of a better controller and such but why not have better graphics to further immerse the player into the experience.  And also graphics technology is a personal interest of mine, so seeing what the Wii can do is an object of interest to myself.

Oh and yeah if I can get Rainbow Six Vegas to run on my laptop which has a GeForce Go 7200 at minimal settings (take note that R6:V has very little in the way of graphics settings) I'm sure the Wii could run it if the game had it's textures and such dumbed down a bit and polygon counts lessened considerably as well as much less heavy physics orchestration.  I'd really like to see a Vegas like FPS on the Wii with cover and everything.
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TacticalElefant

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#2 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts

I'm not sure about RS:V, but in the long term developers would have to deal with more than just downgrading the graphics. I imagine the Wii would choke on newer physics engines (what version is HAVOK up to now?) and AIs.ThePlothole


Well I think people don't give the Wii what it's worth in terms of capabilities. They are not extremely high like the PS3 and the 360 but in comparison I do think the Wii is considerably more powerful than the Gamecube, PS2, and even the Xbox.

The Xbox while having a somewhat weak CPU, a Pentium III 733 MHz, could pull off some nice physics, and even the PS2 could do some surprisingly nice ragdoll physics, for example in Area 51 and PSI-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy. What the PS2 really lacked in comparison to Microsoft's beast was graphics horsepower and RAM, which was to set the Xbox apart. The Gamecube though while still being weaker has much more comparible real world benchies against the Xbox as opposed to the PS2. Now where will all my gibber jabber take this? Let me explain.

The Wii is believed and partially proven to have hardware extended from the Gamecube. But the G3 (if the Wii really has a G3 PPC CPU) architecture is more efficient per clock than Pentium 3 CPU architecture like seen in the Xbox. From what I've read it seems to be a fair estimate that the Wii's CPU is in the realm of being comparable to the Xbox's P3 clocked at 1.2 GHz. In comparison to the Xbox's specs that's a nice deal extra processing power. And for all I know, the CPU in the Wii could be even more powerful. Like I said previously, the PS2 and Xbox with relatively weak in comparison to PC CPUs, could pull of some nice physics. Havok may be up to version 4.0 about now, but 2.0 would be sufficient for Wii games, as there are much less points of articulation and detail to consider. Game engine wise, the Wii does run Unreal 2.5 in the form of Red Steel which graphically and game engine wise (considering physics and all) wasn't a bad looking nor bad running game (only the controls really sucked). I'm pretty sure a scaled back Unreal 3 is on the way (but not really necessary unless it has the benefit of greater efficiency for the same processes as UR2.5).

When it comes to the graphics side of things, the Wii can probably dish out much more than what we've had the privelage of witnessing. Rumors state that the Hollywood GPU in the Wii is essentially a "doubled-up" extension of the Flipper GPU from the Gamecube. Double the pixel units, texture units, TEV, rasterization capabilities and add a 50% higher clock speed (162 to 239 MHz) and we can pretty much theorize a tripling of capabilities in the Wii in comparison to the Gamecube. 8 pixel pipelines, 8 texture units, and 2 TEVs. Basically the Wii I think will be comparable to the performance of an Nvidia GeForce 6200, which is enough horsepower to run a more than decent version of Half Life 2, Call of Duty 2 on PC (in DX7 mode), or Battlefield 2 PC. Of course these are granted that the Wii can handle similar shaders as the Direct X 7/8/9 ones used in the mentioned games and has the vertex/polygon rendering power as well. Now how does the supposed Wii GPU stack up in comparison to the Xbox's GPU? Let us compare, and take note that this is raw theoreticals here, not taking shader programming capabilities into account nor the render API being used which would affect real world performance.

Xbox GPU
Gamecube GPUWii GPU
233 MHz clock speed
162 MHz clock speed 239 MHz clock speed
4 pixel pipelines
4 pixel pipelines 8 pixel pipelines
8 texture units (2 per pixel pipe)
4 texture units (1 per pixel pipe) 8 texture units (1 per pixel pipe)
4 PP x 233 MHz = 932 MPixels/Sec
4 PP x 162 = 648 MPixels/Sec 8 x 239 MHz = 1912 MPixels/Sec
8 TU x 233 MHz = 1864 MTexels/Sec
4 TU x 162 = 648 MTexels/Sec 8 x 239 MHz = 1912 MTexels/sec

So basically and theoretically the Wii should possess twice the pixel processing capabilities of the Xbox, which should considerable give the Wii a real edge in pixel processes like bump maps, normal maps and other shader effects. Despite that the Wii possess barely higher texture processing but it matches well with it's ability to process pixels. We should see much more shadowing, bumpmapping, normal mapping and other various shader and texture effects as compared to the Gamecube where such effects were rarely implemented in the same regard as the PS2 which did possess such capabilities as well despite not being as good or prominently known.

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TacticalElefant

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#3 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts
or for roughly 7x that amount you can buy a ps3 and have graphics that really are better (laughs)CRAZIE_GUY


Or use my PC which can outdo a PS3 and 360 combined.  I do like the Wii controls and I'm a hardware geek.  Solving problems and challenges within certain GPU/CPU and system capabilities is always an interesting quandrum.  I'm the kind of person who will play a game, and ask questions like "why didn't this game have bumpmaps and how would it look if it did?"  "How much of a processing hit would I be looking at if I implemented this feature along with this one?" 
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#4 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts
.......makes me want to get my hands on a devkit and learn how to make games for it to see how powerful the Wii really is. That and it would be a challenge creating certain games that depend on a clean and crisp presentation. Personally I think it would be really cool to translate Rainbow Six:Vegas to the Wii and still make it look good. Granted a Wii version of the game would lack many effects and graphical features, everything else I think would be translatable.

So yeah, I am a graphics whore but boy oh boy I'd like a challenge, and the Wii would be certainly interesting to program and develope for.  The devkits certainly are attractive being under $2000.
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#5 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts

Theres just has much upgrading with consoles. None stop nicknacks to add to it and not long after all the people bought Xbox 360 they came out with hard drive you can add and the xbox 360 elite.

And there would never be an end to upgrading consoles or pcs its a business made to suck every penny out of you. Best you can do is just get a decent pc that will last you 2-3years before having to upgrade stuff on it.

Sleepyz


LOL @ your sig.

Basically I just built my rig two months ago.  I expect all the parts in it to last me 2 years without upgrade.  The only upgrade I foresee doing soon though is another GB of RAM for when I implement Vista 64 bit so I can have 3 GB running.
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#6 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts

multiple warhead missiles aren't only on the US side, and thats why DARPA and whoever is involved in creating a missile defense system is scrambling with all kinds of ideas, mostly light-emitting chemical reaction weapons such as the one used on the YAL-1A (although the latter is used to shoot down missiles upon launch in a close battlefield).

The same concept has been proved to work on the ground by israelis by having the system shoot down katyusha unguided rockets, kind of like a land based CIWS system.

also i know the US is researching into a space based or very high altitude defense system which uses brute kinetic force to intercept ballistic missiles before they reach their apex, the speed of the two objects is so great, no detonation is required and the missile simply melts under heat.

WARxSnake


When my father was in the Marine Corp he got to work at the Pentagon involved with Star Wars and the anti-ballistic missile programs.  Current defences came out of that research and work, and inovations still continue to be made.  The whole brute kinetic force thing you mention was the main challenge because a proximity fuse or something like it would've been worthless at such high speeds, therefore only through a true impact could suffice.  The amount of exactitude of timing is extremely hard to make possible since you have two objects - one which is trying to hit the other - at possible closing speeds of 20,000 miles per hour.  And yes, when two objects and their energy collide at such speeds, there is no melting, it's purely vaporization with such a high amount of impact.  The real problem with a missile based defence system is managing a defence against extremely high numbers of either missiles or MIRVs as they reenter the atmosphere, since missiles need to independently attack individual targets.  Beam weaponry might be our best hope (or chemical light emitting, which ever name you prefer) or a mix of beam and missile weapons.  Unlike the way movies and Hollywood protray them, lasers can't penetrate smoke or clouds exactly well, so you need another type of weapon to augment such a situation.  And the best systems of offence and defence comprise of multiple solutions.

But what is the best solution in surviving a thermonuclear war?  Never letting it happen in the first place.
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#7 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts
Unleashed looks cool, but I'm not desperate to play it.
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#8 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts
The Czar Bomb was only the most powerful ever tested, doesn't mean that actively deployed nukes later on were weaker. The US and Soviet Union developed missiles with nukes that were theoretically much more powerful. Besides that, accuracy was on the US side, especially with the advent of ballistic missiles with MIRVs (Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicles) which allowed some missiles to carry up to 12 nuclear warheads. So a super-nuke wasn't all too needed when one missile could be used to target multiple cities or multiple sections of a large metroplis.  Instead of carrying a single super nuke, all those MIRVs could surpass as a single whole the Tzar Bomb, plus their would be redundancy in MIRVs as their are more than one warheads on their way down. 

Look at this way: The United States and the Soviet Union had enough nuclear weapons to destory the entire surface of the earth a hundred times over. Talk about Mutual Assured Destruction.
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#9 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts
Even if there are problems with the DX10 performance, there is no denying how good with DX9 games these 8 series cards are. 
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#10 TacticalElefant
Member since 2007 • 900 Posts
No no no the PS3 has 256 MB XDR system RAM and another 256 MB GDDR3 VRAM.  It's 512 total, but it's pretty crappy since it's two seperate pools that make it strenuous for developers if they need more than the 256 MB GDDR3 VRAM because of the factors involved with latency and such using the SRAM for video as well.  The developers of Oblivion had that issue when porting the game to PS3.