Entering the Shivering Isles for the first time, when all the walls turn into butterflies and fly off...most of Shivering Isles was actually an overriding memory. A couple of the waterfalls and secret caves were also really cool...standing on top of the wizard tower...and about half the quests are just awesome. It's one of a few games that I can actually enjoy playing over and over and over and over.
You're generalizing way too much, and you just said that Fall Out Boy and Linkin Park are some of the best 'rock' artists there are. In addition, you completely pan metal as being satanic in nature and altogether negative. Your opinion is already invalid in the eyes of any serious music fan.
I don't know if the discussion has changed much, but threads like this tend to get long posts, and it's already reached a considerable number of pages, so I'm really only responding to the original post.
You're not entirely wrong, there are plenty of great rappers out there (although fewer in number as the whole genre hasn't been around as long), but to pick a handful of 'rock' bands (and a few of them being completely awful) to represent what is already about a quarter of the music produced in history is just ridiculous.
The Longest Journey and Dreamfall: The Longest Journey. There are almost no explanations of the first game in the second game, and it's the best damn story I've played through so far.
Two Worlds IS bigger. Take the Shivering Isle, stick it on Cyrodiil somewhere, and that's how much surface area is going to be in Two Worlds, albeit in more of a rectangular shape than the weird heart-thingy.
Some of the older games were definitely what I would consider art, but they were a lot more spread out than they are now. You had Ultima, Fallout, System Shock, most of the Black Isle stuff, Deus Ex...but there weren't many that really stood out apart from that, which is why I'm using the present as an example.
Yeah, I'd definitely have to say that that was one of the best game scripts ever written. Some moments in that game were far more powerful than most movies. Trying to save Jenny but being held back by what is an extension of your soul, being the reaper....it was far more intense than I had expected.
A general definition of the word art is the use of a specific medium to display aesthetic principles, or similarly to master a specific form to the point where you're effectively in a category of your own, a master of your craft or art! Some people might also argue art is when the meaning or moral or what have you of the particular piece transcends that of its chosen medium, so effectively is better than anything anyone though possible by that medium. The problem is, no matter which definition you choose of those games have yet to do any of them... atleast in my oh-so humble oppinion. the_mad_madman
In order of underlined statements: But games are getting to the point where they show the developers' mastery. Half-Life 2, The Longest Journey Trilogy, Oblivion all show exceptional prowess. There will be games coming out this year that will be even better. It's been around long enough that people can actually make a living off of being a video game critic.
And again, games are getting to that point, where ideas crossover from the game to real life. The way I experience dreams has actually changed after playing The Longest Journey and it's successor. I have a larger appreciation for natural scenery after playing Oblivion. It really is crossing over. With games like Bioshock, ethical choices and our decisions on them are going to be instilled in our minds for the rest of our lives. The act of participation in video games adds a whole new dimension to what art can be, because of the players' involvement in its unfolding beauty.
Games are designed to be fun and to be entertaining, not to portray the deeper meaning of the world around us etc etc. Sure games can do that, but usually it's meant as a more dramatic presentation for the overall game, not the games entire purpose. .
the_mad_madman
But you can't really say that movies do any better, can you? The Godfather, widely considered to be the best movie ever made, was naught but a good plot (taken from a novel I might add), good camerawork, good acting and good editing. There was no moral to the story, nothing to be carried over, simply a solid stepping stone for later movies to try to build upon, which is what games have been doing over the course of 30 odd years.
The way I see it, Roger Ebert is simply getting old. If a game can move me more than an Academy Award winning film for Best Picture (Dreamfall: The Longest Journey vs. Lawrence of Arabia), then I'm forced to say that video games are just as much art as movies are. The act of working my way through the story and everything else for extended periods of time makes me relish the experience even more. There are games coming out now (Mass Effect, Bioshock) in which the player gets involved on a much deeper scale than any movie has been able to reach. There are games already out (Oblivion, Morrowind, and yes, Halo) which have such extensive universes put into place for the player to explore that most players will never have learned all of the history and opinions of in-game people and places. Again, movies don't create very extensive worlds (with the exception of Star Wars and Star Trek, although how much detail is actually put into the movies and not the books is debatable).
The goal of books are to make the reader see what the author sees and/or form opinions and ideas from it. The goal of music is to place the listener in the studio (or at the concert) and hear what the musician heard at its conception. The goal of movies are to put the viewer in themindof the director.
The goal of art in general is to put the person experiencing the art in the creator's vision through the creation itself. But no art form has ever had an instant transition between having no art and having art. Before paintings there were cave drawings. Before books there were myths, fables, history and religion. Before symphonies there were people humming. Before motion pictures there were plays, and before good motion pictures were made they needed to develop camera, editing, and scriptwriting techniques. Before games get any good, programming, art and design need to be improved. Right now we are on the cusp of having video games that can truly be called art. Just as we look back at Citizen Kane, we'll someday look back at Mass Effect in the same way.
I hope this isn't too wordy or complicated for people to understand.
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