As usual, kbaily, you've brought up a strong discussion. Here's my take on the Sonic series in general nowadays, though. In fact, what I'm about to say is a disagreement of sorts to something you brought up. I honestly don't think Sega has actually figured out how to make 3D Sonic work, even though the series has seemed to have some solid 3D outings. Instead, what I think Sonic Team has learned over the years are ways to mask many of the trouble areas that Sonic's gameplay faces in a 3D world.

Don't get me wrong, as Sonic Generations is indeed a solid effort, and from what I've heard, as is Colors (maybe I'll get around to playing that game one day...). That being said, I thought it was pretty clear that when the game slowed down in the modern stages in Generations and you have to actually navigate in a 360-degree fashion, the Sonic experience is really no more refined than it was during the Dreamcast days. When moving laterally, Sonic still feels as stiff and clunky as a rock, and combine that when trying to move with any sense of speed, and I think that's where the series still suffers.

What Sega managed to do with Generations was put the game in situations where Sonic wasn't forced to move around in an open area for very long and giving him tools, like the drift and sidestep, that made it easier for him to go left and right what going at full speed. With this in mind, it doesn't really surprise me if Lost World is making some people feel down on the experience, as it tries to bring more open areas when more recent Sonic games have struggled handling them. And honestly, until (or IF) Sonic Team is able to fix the fundamental puzzle of making sure Sonic can truly move right in 3D, I think the series will only be able to do so much with 3D gameplay.

As far as Sonic's image is concerned and whatnot, I don't think there's any point in trying to discuss it, really. Sonic has always tried to sell as a very "hip" character, and the evolution of his design has pretty much been with that philosophy in mind over the years. And yes, unfortunately, that has led to some "Shadow the Hedgehogs" and a few other mistakes along the way. Still, I think it has nothing to do with what platform Sonic has been on. If anything, the series being on Nintendo platforms have kept the series from going too far off the grid, if games like Sonic '06 are and indication.

I think Sonic Team is trying with the series, no question, but I also think that the series' inconsistency is a result of not being able to master 3D platforming in the way Mario did 17 years ago. I think the series has had to experiment more to compensate for the fact that Sonic's trademark speed doesn't seem to mesh very well with the more methodical and precision-based 3D platforming experience. I'm not even sure it can be helped at this point, but I think the trial-and-error approach with games like Lost World gives Sonic Team a stronger idea of what can be established each time.

@white_kunoichi: Well you mentioned how people who like Shadow are all furrys... I like Shadow and I don't like furrys. Just throwing that out there. I enjoyed Shadow the Hedgehog, although i'm not going to say its perfect.

@turtlethetaffer I meant how people talk sexually to the anthropomorphic characters and draw themselves as one and romance the Sonic characters. Example: Rouge. Boys think she's HOT because of her huge chest and whorey voice. Girls think Sonic's "cute" and "handsome" (same as Shadow) they daydream of getting "pleasure" (I'm certain you know what I mean) from the characters.

Gracious, if I was THAT way toward Espio, my goodness, I'll throw myself into therapy and immediately take pills.

Anyways, back on topic, I'm getting better on Lost World. Maybe it isn't the controls but me... Oh, well. Sonic isn't the only game to take time to get used to.

The controls aren't bad. It's just that sometimes the physics feel slightly off, like when you jump from a complete stand still he goes nowhere. But if you run just for half a second before jumping he carries the momentum fine through the air. And also, the game is freaking difficult sometimes. People just don't want to admit they're bad at it and blame the game's "controls".

maybe the Sonic series can best be supported as a type of downloadable arcade titles, where people can see value in a bargain rather than seeing a demanding retail price tag

it's sad to see Sega abandon quality franchises like the Panzer Dragoon series, or Bayonetta and Vanquish, to try to make a dried up franchise popular once again, and fail at that

@white_kunoichi: Every single character in the Sonic universe is a furry. All the main ones, at least.

To all those who still defend Shadow's game, that you aren't bothered by guns and swearing and that the tedious hero/dark missions are fun and playing Westopolis 10 ten times to complete it isn't tedious and how the hero/dark things means crap because there's a final story anyway... here's why I hate Shadow's game....

It's a game meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator. It came out at the time when all these old school series were being brought back and changed up to be "dark" and "edgy" when GTAIII and Halo were the biggest sellers at the time so every game dev including Sega said "hey what do stupid teenagers like? M rated games with guns and swearing!! You saw the second Prince of Persia Sands of Time game get all dark and emo going from a whimsical Arabian nights adventure to this metal driven hack and slash fest. Jak and Daxter went from a colorful platformer, to a darker GTA style game with guns and cursing, even Ratchet got slightly darker with Deadlocked. Not saying these were bad games, but it really felt like someone was focus testing and assumed emo culture was in and that no one wanted to play colorful, lighthearted games. I mean look at how crappy the Gamecube sales were with their lame cartoony Wind Waker Zelda. Which I still think was Nintendo giving the finger to the "dark edgy" tone the industry was pushing for especially when everyone wanted a gray/brown Zelda with Link slicing off heads.

And this is how Shadow's game was born. It was made by focus groups. You can slap guns, swearing and heavy metal into a game and stupid teenagers will eat it up even if it's crap (look at 50 Cent Bulletproof). Shadow game banked on selling to stupid 13 year olds who would see a game with a hedgehog holding a gun, with an explosion in the background and it was rated E10 so even if mommy wouldn't let them buy a big boy game, they had something that looked dark and edgy that they could buy. I remember some kid on a forum going "Shadow's game is so cool! But I my mom took it away when she heard the language." Remember kids, it's ok to shoot people with guns as long as you don't use potty mouth. Shadow was a game made by focus groups and if you bought it, you're part of the problem.

@Jaysonguy How is Sega on to bigger and better things now? What was the last high quality thing they put out that was a major seller? We've all talked about Sonic's troubles but as I recall they're attempts to reboot games like Nights, Phantasy Star (the 360 one), Samba D'Amigo. They got so desperate they resorted to making crummy movie tie in games (like Iron Man) that were so bad they lost the rights to keep making those. Repeat the liscened tie in games they made were so bad, they weren't allowed to make LISCENCED TIE IN GAMES anymore. Then of course they make stuff like the Sega Toilets and even when they make something moderately good like Rome Total War, it's bugged up the ass. But hey, at least we don't have to buy another console just to play Sonic right?

Too bad the gameplay is not as good as the story... Parkour really isn't Sonic's doing... *sigh* I would like more platforming.

Shadow's game was stupid, hideous, and full of nonsense. Seriously, people still play this? For the love of humanity... Shadow's longtime boyfriends and girlfriends. Furry bangers.

...There goes my temper again.

I never thought his games were all that bad, even if they weren't the best. Most of the ones I've played have been pretty enjoyable, although the flaws you mentioned were definitely there. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was awesome for me because of the Chao garden, Sonic Heroes was fun because it had four different campaigns (and I thought the levels and areas were still quite fun for the most part), I really enjoyed Shadow the Hedgehog because I'll admit I was a huge Shadow fanboy, but I think the branching storyline added to the replayability of the levels.

In short, I understand why many fans have been alienated by the series. But I personally have enjoyed the 3D games, for the most part. That being said, I think that Generations and Colors are among the best in the series (from what I've seen). Now if only they;d bring back toe Chao garden....

Complete crap

Sega gave up on Sonic a long time ago, why do you think the exclusive thing with Nintendo?

Sega is now onto bigger and better things because they're not a console company. The whole "do you want to see this happen to Mario?" is such complete crap. Nintendo would never let that happen because Nintendo would keep Mario alive. Sega on the other hand doesn't care what happens to Sonic as long as his games are playable.

It's all about where the resources go for Sonic and right now the biggest effort was put behind Sonic Racing. If Sega wanted to they could back Sonic but what's the point?

Their money is best spent elsewhere.

I played a demo at my local Walmart of Lost World and honestly it played fine for me once you get used to the fact Sonic has a "run" button now and that the level design is more focused on platforming than just spamming dash to win. Now mind you this was only the first level of the game that was playable but while reviews are going to bash it for being a Sonic game on a Nintendo console among those who played it, I hear various opinions. The Brainscratch crew all had different opinions though they all thought the 3DS gyroscopic special stages were awful. Another one said, getting all the red rings was too frustrating and like Colors, gives you the ability to play as Super Sonic, however in this game he's seriously gimped like he was in Generations. One thing they all agreed was that Lost World was trying to hard to be a lot of things. It wanted to be Super Sonic Galaxy and Sonic Colors 2 as well the hints of Sonic Xtreme in there and that's been a major problem Sonic's had since 3D blast, in that the series is trying too hard to be like other series. In the Adventure titles, they wanted to give Sonic hub world questing and items like Zelda, then they brought in the werehog and tried to be God of War and now while there's a lot that can be taken from Mario, it feels like the series is trying too hard to be like Mario. Yes Sega, like Mario Sonic needs to be lighthearted and focused on platforming but Sonic doesn't need to do everything like Mario does. What's next? Having Sonic ride a dinosaur and collect stars?

Sonic fans, when it comes to Lost World, you really will have to make your own call. Rent it or play a demo if you can find one. In the end I'd still rather have something like this than see the series go back to it's gimmick laden, friend heavy, furrie anime melodrama days where Shadow was shooting guns and swearing and Sonic was in love with a human girl.

And because someone is going to say it. Enough with the "We need Sonic Adventure 3" crap. Sega made Sonic Adventure 3. Yes SA3 exists for the PS3/360. It has a massive story, hub world and playable friends. It just wasn't called Sonic Adventure 3 and it came out in 2006. Remember? And it sucked SEGA IS NEVER MAKING SONIC ADVENTURE 3. MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIVES!!

# Sonic: Lost World is now my favorite Sonic game. The story is EXCELLENT. The music fits exactly in the atmosphere. This is a Sonic game that it should be. I've played and beaten the 3DS version and, I promise, the 3DS is really good. Once I've play the Wii U version I'll compare it to the 3DS.

The controls are not all that bad. I'm getting used to it pretty quick. Parkour may not be Sonic's strong suit like Mario but it's alright. There's still loop-de-loops and times where you do platforming. Give the 3DS a try and it'll get better later.

Overall, Sonic: Lost World (alongside Colors) beat the Gamecube titlesand other Wii titles to the ground.

Ok I'll actually oblige you with a real answer. You know what the problem is with Sonic? 2 main things. 1. His new games are primarily speed based and have little platforming and 2. They are trying to make Sonic a "Cool" character.

Let me say, if Sega wanted Sonic to sell well, 1. they will have to take it back to his roots and make his games primarily about platforming and not about speed. Speed is Sonic's trait, his levels should not be based around his trait. Sure some areas of the stage you should be able to blast through but not the entire stage. He needs to slow down, stop, take time to think "How am I going to get past this part" instead of "GO FAST GOTTA GO FAST GOTTA GO FAST!!!!". His level design is a huge issue. Why do you think Generations was so good? It took a page from Sonic's old book and focused on Platforming instead of sheer speed for the most part.

and 2. Sonic is not a "Cool" character. Sega needs to stop trying to appeal to the BadA$$ character lover fanboys and make sonic a cheesy corny character again like he was in his glory days. Again, why do you think Generations sold so well? Because it featured the cheeseball sonic as well from back when Sonic was great. Some characters are just not meant to be "Cool" and Sonic is one of those characters. Then they keep introducing these characters that have no true purpose in a Sonic game.

Big the Cat, E-109 gamma (Or whatever that robot's name was), heck I'd go so far as to say even Shadow the Hedgehog (I know fanboys will riot because I said that but the fact of the matter is, Shadow is fan service to the BadA$$ Character lover fanboys and really has no place in Sonic, Mephilis or Silver neither). Sonic should expand on more developed and known characters such as Charmy, Espio, Vector, Mighty and Princess Sally.

So in short, make a game where platforming is the primary focus of Sonic and stop trying to make sonic so "Cool" and I can pretty much guarantee that sonic games will regain a higher quality than these new sonic games have been. And this is coming from someone that actually liked the Werehog stages in Sonic Unleashed for Wii because they focused on Platforming moreso than speed although I did like the Speed stages as well but not as much as the platforming ones.

*nods in agreement to the whole thing*

"Medicore" lol