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major_silva

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#1 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts
I was genuinely surprised to see the overwhelming Republican support for CISPA. Republicans are always railing about the bloatedness of government, so it seems strange to me that they would approve of a bill which is hardly enforceable on a large scale but still manages to extend government grip over yet another aspect of life.
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major_silva

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#2 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts

KC_Hokie, welcome back to the topic.

To recap:

you still have not proven the hockey stick model false. The Harvard study you linked does not prove the hockey stick model false. In fact, the Harvard study is largely irrelevant to the topic ofglobalwarming, because, as it states, right there in the article, the 'warming hole' is aregionalphenomenon. This region encompasses a chunk of the eastern United States, it does not encompass the entire globe. To say that this proves that the ENTIRE Earth is not warming is to ignore hundreds of other studies, many of them from that same institution, that prove just the opposite. Furthermore, that very article also states that the "catch up" warming has already occurred because of greenhouse warming. Again, you have been caught being disingenous. The fact that particulates in the air (note that this does not say anything about atmospheric CO2 concentration) reflect sunlight should not be news to anyone, as anyone who is familiar with the common supervolcano or nuclear war disaster can tell you: nuclear winter usually follows for this very same reason.


I would like to ask you also to quit dodging the topic. We were first discussing increasing CO2 concentrations, which led to discussing the hockey stick graph, and now our discussion is steadily turning to less relevant ideas.

I will close this post with another reminder that we are all still waiting for you to prove, with peer-reviewed evidence, that the hockey stick model is false. However, not only must you disprove the original Mann paper, you must also disprove the 3 other independent verifications that I have shown throughout the course of this thread. As always, I will wait.

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#3 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts
[QUOTE="major_silva"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Prove me wrong then. The hockey stick data by Dr. Mann is notoriously wrong. It was one of the biggest stories in climate science in the last 10+ years. And you won't see many credible climate scientists trying to defend the hockey stick model or data collection 'method' either. KC_Hokie
I did prove you wrong. I provided peer-reviewed papers, you provided a blog. Considering that my evidence is scientific and yours is not, the burden of proof is currently on you to provide peer-reviewed evidence backing your claims. You have not done this, but I will keep waiting.

You linked something from 2007....the hockey stick data debunking didn't happen until 2009. You didn't prove jack.

You didn't debunk anything. You did not prove (by providing peer-reviewed research) that the hockey stick graph was debunked, ergo my argument still stands whereas yours fizzles. Furthermore, skepticism of the hockey stick graph reached its peak long before 2009. In fact, all the errant skepticism is what led to so many teams independently verifying the Mann's results. Here are only two of these independent verifications, although I suspect that you will not read them: http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11676&page=115 http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JCLI3351.1 I have already posted my proof, so this further rendition of evidence is unnecessary on my part. Consider it a courtesy, and use it as motivation for you to do the same (i.e., post peer-reviewed papers).
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#4 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts
[QUOTE="major_silva"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Data is all accurate. The red comes from Dr. Mann's hockey stick data. The other two don't use a process that **** with data due to an agenda.KC_Hokie
You're the only one with an agenda here. How do I know? All your arguments hinge on unsourced, untested, unverified non-reviewed data. Why would you choose to back your claims using only what can be considered, at best, other people's opinions?

Prove me wrong then. The hockey stick data by Dr. Mann is notoriously wrong. It was one of the biggest stories in climate science in the last 10+ years. And you won't see many credible climate scientists trying to defend the hockey stick model or data collection 'method' either.

I did prove you wrong. I provided peer-reviewed papers, you provided a blog. Considering that my evidence is scientific and yours is not, the burden of proof is currently on you to provide peer-reviewed evidence backing your claims. You have not done this, but I will keep waiting.
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#5 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts

[QUOTE="major_silva"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Yea called the hockey stick graph used by the IPCC and then NASA on that graph you linked.

rcs_merged.gif

Read data is hockey stick data (debunked). The other two are reality. Notice a difference?

KC_Hokie

Another blog graph. How quaint.

Data is all accurate. The red comes from Dr. Mann's hockey stick data. The other two don't use a process that **** with data due to an agenda.

You're the only one with an agenda here. How do I know? All your arguments hinge on unsourced, untested, unverified non-reviewed data. Why would you choose to back your claims using only what can be considered, at best, other people's opinions?
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#6 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]I can read it perfectly....that graph used the Vostok ice cores for 649,950 years and the hockey stick data for the recent part (which is a huge spike). KC_Hokie

yet ur still gonna find a way to deny it?

Yea called the hockey stick graph used by the IPCC and then NASA on that graph you linked.

rcs_merged.gif

Read data is hockey stick data (debunked). The other two are reality. Notice a difference?

Another blog graph. How quaint.
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#7 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts

This is what satellite data shows in terms of warming:

Satellite_Temperatures.png

This is what the debunked hockey stick graph showed...lol!:

1000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

KC_Hokie
We were discussing atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations, not temperature anomaly. Also, you really should take a second look at those graphs. One covers a time period of less than 50 years whereas the other covers a period of 1000 years. That is a disingenuous comparison at best. Additionally, you again state that the hockey stick graph has been debunked but I have not seen you provide any proof for that claim.
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#8 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts
[QUOTE="major_silva"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]They're from Steve McIntyre moron...a well respected climatologist who worked at NASA. KC_Hokie
I'll ignore the ad hominem for now. What I do find funny is that you grasped on the argument that a small percentage of scientists disagreed over the source of global warming, and now you're hinging your entire argument on one man that writes on a blog. I'm still waiting, it shouldn't be difficult to do what I've asked.

He's the guy that is credited for debunking the hockey stick graph. Look him up. Look up climategate.

Credited by whom? By a panel of his peers, in published literature in reputable journals? Or by you, and a few other denialists? I've provided my sources, which are (and I'm afraid I've exhausted the term) peer-reviewed and reputable. You have given me: a person's blog. I know who Steve McIntyre is, I know what climategate refers to. Look, all I want is science that has reached the other side of peer-review unscathed. I don't want to read somebody's personal blog. Please do this for me.
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#9 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts
[QUOTE="major_silva"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Of course it was. The hockey stick data due to climategate went down in flames. They were busted deleting data that showed cooling and creating a mathematical formula that showed warming (where there was none).

This was confirmed throughout the scientific and mathematically community.

Graph 1 is the hockey stick data....the other two are reality. Notice the difference?

yamal-eps.jpg

KC_Hokie
Again, your only source are graphs derived from a blog website. Where are the peer-reviewed papers? If the scientific community, the peers, agreed that the hockey stick data was false, as you've said, then you should have no trouble finding reputable, published literature that supports your claim. I'll await.

They're from Steve McIntyre moron...a well respected climatologist who worked at NASA.

I'll ignore the ad hominem for now. What I do find funny is that you grasped on the argument that a small percentage of scientists disagreed over the source of global warming, and now you're hinging your entire argument on one man that writes on a blog. I'm still waiting, it shouldn't be difficult to do what I've asked.
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#10 major_silva
Member since 2004 • 1206 Posts

[QUOTE="major_silva"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]The hockey stick model was debunked by that scientist who worked at NASA. The scientific community agreed.

So any graph using the hockey stick data is false.

Again, look up climate-gate if you don't believe me.

KC_Hokie

It was not 'debunked' by any means. If that was true, then where are the peer-reviewed journal articles with the revised data? You say that the scientific community agreed, and that is patently false, but again, I ask you to provide peer-reviewed evidence of your statements or they shall be considered nonsense hereforth. Lastly, I have done you the courtesy of providing solid scientific data from reputable sources. Scientific data that has been published and reviewed by referees whose sole purpose is to find shoddy data. All I ask of you is to be as thorough with your "opinions".

Of course it was. The hockey stick data due to climategate went down in flames. They were busted deleting data that showed cooling and creating a mathematical formula that showed warming (where there was none).

This was confirmed throughout the scientific and mathematically community.

Graph 1 is the hockey stick data....the other two are reality. Notice the difference?

yamal-eps.jpg

Again, your only source are graphs derived from a blog website. Where are the peer-reviewed papers? If the scientific community, the peers, agreed that the hockey stick data was false, as you've said, then you should have no trouble finding reputable, published literature that supports your claim. I'll await.