Its hilarious to see all these "kids"(Although they may be older then 13, they still act like it) get up in arms about name brands. Yes sure certain brands carry certain traits and ect, ect. But please guys... get a hold of yourselfs! tjdeep_2007: "ATI..........hahahah.............they r seriously trying to outperform nvidia............still nvidia rocks......." Not that long ago, if i do recall correctly. Thats what everyone was saying but with nVidia instead of ATI and vice versa ;). People always jump on a bandwaggon. Then start talking it up, and when that bandwaggon falls over. They move sides again. This is why the argument of "They only pick it because of the certain traits you n00b's!" gets thrown out the window. Because people dont stick to it, they just stick to the one that seems to be winning in that generation.(Most people, there are some true belivers out there, dont think i forgot you little guys :P) We then procede to get the idiots that just flames people, but doesnt backing up why("TJdeep_2007...............hahahahaha..................your an idiot." as gatorteen so politly put it). So this is just the start of my attacks. Just the commenters, now lets start attacking gamespot. As "Jedikevin2" put it, Orange Box is NOT a heavy hitter. HL2 is getting quite old and past its year for benchmarking for graphics cards. Secondly, Gamespot needs to correctly tell the readers that this is a budget priced card, for mid end- high end graphics(Its in the middilish). As they have now created a bit of confussion. These two cards are not designed to be the uber high end cards. They are the "Main stream" cards. Very accsesible. Thridly, one of the big flag ship things about the 3xxx serris is DX 10.1. Being an upgraded version of DX10. Now this is a huge selling point. Fourthly, just like the commenters, Gamespot become bias. Look at this ATI page! It has relitivly low info, only one page, 4 pics. Have you had a look at most of the other nVidia graphics cards that theve done a similar thing with(Eg, 8800GT). That had pages of info, lots of pictures, more then 1 page and several bemchmarks. Now, back to the MAIN topic(The 3870 and the 3850). These two cards seem to be quite good for the price range. I may consider buying them or the 8800GT(As there both in a sweet spot area). But what i find a bit werid is, when it comes to acctuall game benchmarking the 8800GT beats the 3870(As to be excpected, its a little less then twice the price(And if you consider the infaltion then its 3x the price :P)). But when it comes to synthetic becnhmarking(3DMarks06) it beat the 8800GT. And it also beat it in Bioshock.As GS pointed out, the 3870 is more powerfull then the 8800GT in a few ways and weaker in others. ATI have gone for an odd approach to the ratios of things. I hope future games and apps take advantage of these. Thanks for reading :). These are just my opinions and views. Im only 15 so dont judge me to harshly :P. Oh and sorry for any mistakes, im trying to type this as fast as i can as i have to go and dont have time to proof read!