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Fire Emblem Fates Controversial Scene Changed for Western Release

The original scene contained what might be considered "gay conversion or drugging."

193 Comments

Nintendo has issued a statement saying its upcoming Fire Emblem Fates will not contain a scene that involves "gay conversion or drugging" between two characters.

No Caption Provided

The scene won't be present in the North American and European versions of the new Fire Emblem game. Nintendo issued a statement to Nintendo World Report confirming this news.

"In the version of the game that ships in the US and Europe, there is no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging that occurs between characters," the statement read.

In Fire Emblem Fates, characters can grow bonds between each other, which often leads to marriage and children when reaching the highest level. Soleil, a woman, is attracted to the same sex, but she's very nervous around other women and fears it'll prevent her from being "a strong and cool woman."

If you end up growing a bond between her and the male protagonist, he'll end up spiking her drink with a magic powder that switches the sex of every character before her eyes. It's supposed to help her feel more comfortable around women, but it's done without her permission. She ends up falling in love with the woman version of the protagonist, and when the magic wears off, revealing himself as a man, her love doesn't change (via Nintendo World Report).

Nintendo didn't provide further details on how the scene will be changed, but many people could interpret this as drugging and conversion therapy, which is used by some religious groups in an attempt to change someone's homosexual orientation.

In other Fire Emblem-related news, Fates' DLC was detailed recently. A Fire Emblem-themed New 3DS XL was also announced.

Got a news tip or want to contact us directly? Email news@gamespot.com

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mgools

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Can this game be played without the homosexual content?

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ArchoNils2

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Edited By ArchoNils2

It is always sad when content gets cut (no matter how stupid it sounds) just because someone somewhere might be offended

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Samslayer

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Edited By Samslayer

I've never really understood the relationship aspects of games. I can understand that if you have higher relationship levels those characters work better alongside eachother, but do we really need video game characters marrying and having a family? It just seems like most RPGs have some sort of marriage/relationship aspect to it now.

***Brenda received your gift, Brenda liked your gift, you and Brenda are now married

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PrickPear

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Edited By PrickPear

I don't get it... is the issue roofies that's so "vontroversial" to the eyes and ears of Americans or is it gay sex? While not being big on gay sex myself, it's cartoon anime characters...... that's like banning your colored pencils for having gay sex with each other.

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BendjiBrave

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@prickpear: I'm sorry, but that ("it's cartoon anime characters...... that's like banning your colored pencils for having gay sex with each other.") was so funny, I'm going to modify it so it make a coherent sentence, translate it and use it as signature at my next favourite forum =P Want credit?

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PrickPear

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@BendjiBrave: I would be honored. Add me to your GS list, we can be web pals. o_0

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bigruss51

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Does Nintendo believe us to be more sensitive than they are? Well, maybe. Everybody seems to criticize everything these days.

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jinzo9988

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@bigruss51: I wonder if Japan has SJWs and Greenlighters.

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Kiaininja

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@jinzo9988: Yes. Can't fully enjoy their J-Adult entertainment because they ruin it by adding censor pixels.

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barom

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Wow that would've been a cool scene, nothing like it out there.

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deactivated-5e90a3763ea91

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I think the whole plot of this romance sounds way too ridiculous to begin with!

I sure hope if Advance Wars comes back, that they don't ruin that game with romance stuff.

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Ragnin

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From what I could tell Soleil is bi-sexual with a strong preference toward women. I would also be fine if the hero was the one who had to take the magic drug in order to be female and help her out. Slipping it to her is pretty bad. But the whole falling in love with him afterword I could even accept if its written well or tastefully.

What really bothers me is that Soleil has 7+ other male romance supports and zero female. It just strikes me as bad writing and poor taste to have a self claiming, female preferring, bi-sexual and then not even have a single female option for her. You can't even romance her as the female avatar.

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PrickPear

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Edited By PrickPear

@Ragnin: I could care less whether cartoon characters like to touch each other's vaginas...... there are problems in this world like hunger, refugees invading Europe, Putin etc....

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straightcur

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because we are all children that might get our feelings hurt...

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Dragon_Nexus

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@straightcur: Judging by the comments section, you're right.

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Pro-Aktivity

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Edited By Pro-Aktivity

Couldn't they just change the scene, so she willingly drinks the thing as a way to help resolve her issues? That way it could still work without the creepiness effect of spiking her drink.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@Pro-Aktivity: You're still left with the creepiness of "curing" her homosexuality with the use of drugs.

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Pro-Aktivity

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Edited By Pro-Aktivity

@Dragon_Nexus: But is it? It wouldn't be the first time someone identified themselves as homosexual, only to meet someone of opposite gender they fall in love with realizing they're bisexual. Unless it's stated the character lost all interest in women, there be no issue of "curing". Just someones love going beyond the constraints of gender.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@Pro-Aktivity: It's a good point, but as Ragnin said there are better ways to do it.

Still, I don't know if it's quite right to suggest you can push someone into an orientation they're not otherwise okay with. I mean, the hottest gay dude in the would could hit on me, and while I'd be flattered I ain't going back to his place to spend the night, ya know?

I'm trying not to read more into it than is actually there. With just these facts presented it's all kinda creepy to me. It sounds like a poorly handled scene with *perhaps* good intentions. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with =/

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Ragnin

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Edited By Ragnin

@Pro-Aktivity: I do agree with you on this and it would make it better if it was just a simple she got to know the main and her affection shifted. But I still feel that is undermined by the fact she only has male romance support options and no female ones.

Also while the whole falling in love and sexuality not mattering is a very true thing. I think Lesbians are tired of it almost always having to be a lesbian falling in love with a man. This happens in media and moves for them far more often then you get a gay guy falling in love with a woman or any of the other options. This is especially bad for them because they face a lot of "its just a phase" and "you'll eventually find the right man" crap that others don't have to deal with. And characters written like Soleil was just help remind them of that fact.

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demon-returns

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The bill Cosby effect in action here...........

With it still bring fresh in the news probably has a lot to do with it.

Well at least no use of the jello pudding was involved in the scene in fire emblem

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AndreasRufus

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Edited By AndreasRufus

... "what might be considered "gay conversion or drugging." And that's just it. "What might be". If you wanna see homophobia or anything controversial, you sure will see it. That's the biggest issue all the time. Mario eating mushrooms can be considered drugging as well. Link drinking certain potions could be called that as well. And what about Yoshi being hit by spores in Yoshis Island (SNES)? Boy he sure is HIGH as hell after that - and that's even clearly visible! There's so much controversial, if you wanna put it in that way...

Anyway, as a "gaymer" I see nothing problematic with that scene, because, well, I see the context. It sure is weird and pretty japanese, but that's all I can see here. Thanks to the internet and other media the whole issue is boiling over once more. Without that, nobody would care and don't take it that serious.

What I don't like is the argument from Nintendo. "When we localize a game we do so in order to make it appropriate for that particular territory". I think that's more a classic, "cliché" american issue, to make sure nobody's getting any clay feet. Don't get me wrong here, but I thing it was changed to make sure nobody could call NoA homophobic and stuff (same with the breast issue in Xenoblade, or the costumes in Fatal Frame).

And what I don't like as well is this: Europe has to deal with that as well, because their localization is most of the time based on the US-Release. Talking about "particual territory" here - PFT!

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coffinvarnish

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Wait for the DLC,

Fire Emblem: There are no winners in Cultural Relativism.

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AgitoVIIReborn

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Edited By AgitoVIIReborn

Good. It was an insult to include that option in the first place if all they did was offer players an effective cheat code. I'm glad they decided to remove the code overseas. Followup from Nintendo sounds like they've adjusted the two LGBT characters so that their relationships remain same-sex, which I think is marvelous. That's been worrying me about the game ever since the first stirrings around June-July last year.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@JachAnen: So should we have an option to rape characters? Should we have an option to murder everyone we meet? Should we have an option to sell drugs to kids?

What? I'm never going to use those options, but as long as we have more options that's fine, right?

Jesus some of these arguments are dumb. More options, gimme a break.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@JachAnen: "Would you rather have a super linear game where there's barely a point in moving your character as it might as well move itself??"

Why is that *literally* the only alternative? Violence or plays-itself?

Video games, if they're ever going to expand as a medium, need to tackle issues. Absolutely. I'm struggling to balance my opinion here, on the one side I don't think things should be "taboo" as such, but I also believe there's a place for them. I mean, delving into the deep discussions about a caitalistic society would be an amazing theme for a video game, but you wouldn't shove it into something like Batman Arkham Knight. You could make a game that's a huge metaphor for the slave trade, but putting it into Mortal Kombat probably isn't the way to do it.

I guess I'm saying if you're going to do something that has real world significance, put it in a game that can do it justice. Don't provide lip service and half-ass it in a title that doesn't deserve it. I'd rather have 4 options that fit the tone, theme and genre of the game than 10 options that were jarring and incoherent.

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InYourMouf

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Yeah that's a bit messed up.

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X-RS

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Do or do not. There is no BS. _-_

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jenovaschilld

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This game sounds more like a simulator, after all Harvard University number of forcible rapes (between 30-80 per year) could use this as a teaching tool. Rohypnol for when you do not have time to brew those potions.

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rabih55555

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You drug a girl to make woman appear as men ?! THats sound fun to me

I'm surprised that some people get disturbed by that. It is just a game.

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Kiaininja

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Edited By Kiaininja

@rabih55555: It's only fun up until they drug you to make men appear as women. But maybe that's fun for you also.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@rabih55555: "It's just a game" is such a dumb argument and suggests that games can never be more than toys, mere distractions for petty amusement instead of a medium for expression.

You're also ignoring the crux of the point of the scene. A lesbian is drugged without her consent to alter her perception of the world, the result of which "cures" her homosexuality as she's tricked into falling in love with the protagonist. Is any part of that a positive message to give to people? If a woman isn't attracted to you, drugging them will change their mind! It's okay, you even get sex out of it!

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rabih55555

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@Dragon_Nexus:

Are games supposed to give positive message to anyone ?! Like playing GTA 5 to kill people in the street ?

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Dragon_Nexus

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@rabih55555: Why is GTA everyone's one and only example?

Anyway, no it doesn't always have to be positive. But you need to consider what the impact of your message will be.

Take something like Call of Juarez: The Cartel. A game that presents the Mexican drug war to you in a way that suggests it's factual. It portrays it in a stereotype riddled somewhat racist way, like suggesting dem Mexicans are trying to steal our wimmin when exactly the opposite is true. Now, someone who doesn't know better might play it and think "Yeah, that's exactly how it is!" and we have gained one more ignorant person in the world.

GTA isn't really trying to teach you anything. Well that's wrong, it is, GTAV takes the mick out of pretty much every social media group there is and even insults its own audience knowing full well the people they're insulting won't get it. It's somewhat more acceptable because GTA doesn't single out any particular group, no-one comes out of GTAV in a positive light.

You need to stop comparing narrative driven cutscenes and interactions with the general player guided gameplay of free roaming. One is the developer telling you something, the other is the player telling himself something.

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noirtenshin

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Edited By noirtenshin

@Dragon_Nexus: maybe they are not trying to send a message, just make a scenario that would steal a few smiles.

Get that broom out of your xxx, and enjoy life. Not everything is made against you or against other people.

Should we ban "Little Mermaid" because she is not human and that advocates "possible sexual interactions between humans and other spices"?

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Dragon_Nexus

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@noirtenshin: There's intent at sending a message and then there's what your medium is saying simply by its actual existence.

Regardless of your intent, the thing you create will speak to people and people will hear what it has to say. As a developer you're in control of the message for the most part. You put the content out there for people to interpret. I fail to see how in this instance you could interpret the situation as anything other than what it is. Sure this is a single scene taken out of context.

BTW, I'm not so arrogant as to assume my own personal offense takes precidense over anyone else's enjoyment, so you can get that idea out of your head. For a start this doesn't even offend me, I just think it's really misguided and somewhat ignorant. Stuff that offends me doesn't offend me for long because I just stop looking at it, or I don't buy it or whatever. So someone can make whatever offensive thing they like, I don't care. If it offends me, I'm just not going to buy it. I'm not going to campaign "Ban this sick filth!"

Finally, you must not have read/watched Little Mermaid very closely, because the point was very much that she became human to bump uglies with the prince. No interspecies mingling there!

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jsty

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Edited By jsty

@Dragon_Nexus: She was always bisexual. And there's no tricking involved. Or curing.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@jsty: Okay, that's definitely something the article omits. Changes the context somewhat.

It doesn't change the fact h's spiking her drink to force a change in her perspective and her way of thinking. That's still kinda creepy.

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rabih55555

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@Dragon_Nexus:

Creepy ?! So what ? It just a game !

Do you find games that allow you to kill people like GTA 5 creepy ?!

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Dragon_Nexus

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@rabih55555: So games aren't allowed to emotionally affect you? Just a game? Is that how you want the world to view the media, like just some meaningless toy?

And no GTA doesn't bother me because the people on the street have no personality, there's nothing to them. They're just polygons with textures on them. The torture scene was unpleasent to sit through because you're given context to everything, who the guy is, who you are, why you're doing it etc. Gunning down random polygons and watching them ragdoll doesn't ilicit much of a response from anyone.

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jsty

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@Dragon_Nexus:

It changes the context tremendously. The conversation translation focuses entirely on the player character, Kamui, trying to help Soleil deal with a problem that she finds debilitating. There's no forcing a change of perspective.

Her issues are still there - it takes several levels of support conversations (orchestrated by the player) to show that she's even managed to get over her problem. There's also no indication that her way of thinking changed because she was tricked to do. She always found girls really attractive and continued to do so (the translated conversation on the web never indicates that she ever stopped liking girls - in fact, the closing line of the Support A conversation kinda confirms it.

Support C conversation snippet:
"Soleil: Yay! So while this magic powder’s still in effect, I want to look at some of the male soldiers! This bunch normally is ugly. I wonder what kind of cute girls they’ll turn into?

Kamui: Wha -!? W- wait, Soleil! It’s not good to use the magic for things like that! Soleil!"

Support B conversation snippet:
Kamui: How were the results of the special training?

Soleil: It was no good. Not much changed. But after I returned from battle, the cute town girls surrounded me. The blood rushed to my head, and when I came to, they were fussing over me. Even though you used that magic powder and gave me that special training.

Support A conversation snippet:
Soleil: But that’s okay. Right now I totally love the male Kamuo-san. Because from the time I drank that magic powder, I was seeing people as girls. And from that time, the only one who made my heart race was you, Kamuo-san. Even now, my heart is beating. Hey, want to touch my chest and see?

Kamui: Whoa! That’s not good!

Soleil: Why not?

Kamui: We’re not even a couple yet, I can’t be recklessly pawing a lady’s body. I understand how you feel . . . and you need to take good care of yourself.

Soleil: All right, I got it.

Kamui: That’s it. Thank you for accepting my marriage proposal. I’ll definitely make you happy. And in return, don’t fool around with other men. Although I probably don’t have to worry about that with you.

Soleil: (laughs) I won’t fool around. From now on, the only one for me is Kamuo-san. (spoken) Thank you! And I love you very much! This is the first time I’ve felt this way other than with women. This is a little embarrassing.

People were offended because they thought the whole thing was gay conversion. But Soleil was never gay to begin with. So the outrage over this whole thing is pretty overblown.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@jsty: "The conversation translation focuses entirely on the player character, Kamui, trying to help Soleil deal with a problem that she finds debilitating. There's no forcing a change of perspective."

Spiking her drink without het consent isn't forcing something?
Her perspective on the world changes due to actions she had no control over.

I'm not trying to manufacture offense here, as I said in another post this doesn't offend me, I just find it kinda sad and weird. I'm just reading it as I see it. To be honest, the magic powder by itself is really creepy even if she's okay with it and uses it willingly. But that's just one of those weird japanese things and their weird views on sexuality and gender, I guess. Cultural clash.

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jsty

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@Dragon_Nexus: Oh, wasn't referring to you about the taking offence bit. The magic powder flips what gender Soleil sees people as. So females are seen as males and males are seen as females. So, I don't see it as a change of perspective of the world. It's a change of what gender she sees people as. She still finds them attractive or unattractive as the case may be.

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Jerian

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Guy reads article, then precedes to create mod for Dragon Age Inquisition to spike Sera's drink while playing as a Male Inquisitor. Romances Sera. Mod wears off, Sera leaves party, Red Jennys kill Inquisitor ;)

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FeathersDoe

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Well, I can't say it was a bad move. If I had gotten that conversation I would be really grossed out, so I have to say it was an okay move. It's a shame it even came up though. The writers really dropped the ball on this one... Just... ugh I am still grossed out!

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