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Fire Emblem Fates Controversial Scene Changed for Western Release

The original scene contained what might be considered "gay conversion or drugging."

193 Comments

Nintendo has issued a statement saying its upcoming Fire Emblem Fates will not contain a scene that involves "gay conversion or drugging" between two characters.

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The scene won't be present in the North American and European versions of the new Fire Emblem game. Nintendo issued a statement to Nintendo World Report confirming this news.

"In the version of the game that ships in the US and Europe, there is no expression which might be considered as gay conversion or drugging that occurs between characters," the statement read.

In Fire Emblem Fates, characters can grow bonds between each other, which often leads to marriage and children when reaching the highest level. Soleil, a woman, is attracted to the same sex, but she's very nervous around other women and fears it'll prevent her from being "a strong and cool woman."

If you end up growing a bond between her and the male protagonist, he'll end up spiking her drink with a magic powder that switches the sex of every character before her eyes. It's supposed to help her feel more comfortable around women, but it's done without her permission. She ends up falling in love with the woman version of the protagonist, and when the magic wears off, revealing himself as a man, her love doesn't change (via Nintendo World Report).

Nintendo didn't provide further details on how the scene will be changed, but many people could interpret this as drugging and conversion therapy, which is used by some religious groups in an attempt to change someone's homosexual orientation.

In other Fire Emblem-related news, Fates' DLC was detailed recently. A Fire Emblem-themed New 3DS XL was also announced.

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Zerofrust

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Edited By Zerofrust

"Gee, i don't want your feelings hurt so i will change my artistic vision so you can feel better about yourself...

But then again, i'm there primarily to make money not art..."

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Dragon_Nexus

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@zerofrust: Or. "You know what, this was actually not a great idea. Too late to change it in Japan, but we can fix it for America".

See, it's very easy to make up someone's motivation when you're not there to hear it from them personally.

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Ariel_G

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Uh... The whole scenario is pretty balls-to-the-walls. But, that's Nintendo for ya sometimes

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Fragtaster

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Edited By Fragtaster

That's f'd up. And incredibly immature. Whoever wrote that stuff should be ashamed. Not sure why writers feel every Japanese game needs a tone of perversion - but the idea of spiking magic drinks and easily converting a homosexual female into a hetro sex-object is particularly juvenille, and offensive to me. People who are gay are born gay, and not even a magic illusion roofy by a perverted teen boy changes that. And regardless if it was censored or not, is iregardless to me. Just the idea that someone's sick mind cameup with that in the first place and put it in a game is what disturbs me. Its particularly offensive to women and homosexuals. Not to meantion spiking drinks, taking advantage of someone, and it eventually leading to a sexualization situation should never be condoned in videogames - especially when its supposed to be the usually great and ritchous protagonist savior doing it.

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bigruss51

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@fragtaster: It's a game. They can do whatever they want. Why should it offend you? I bet you're not offended when playing GTA and yet others are. I personally don't like being around gays(just how it is) but that didn't stop me from enjoying dragon age. Didn't stop me from selecting the gay character as one of my companions. Games that put people in uncomfortable situations are awesome.

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jsty

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@fragtaster: Soleil was always bisexual. Only Western media declared her gay.

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X-RS

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@fragtaster: Or you could look at it in a + light for anyone going through a sexchange >_>

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Fragtaster

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Edited By Fragtaster

@X-RS: *In a Cleveland voice*

"That's turrible!' >_<

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aiat_gamer

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@fragtaster: are you gay?

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Fragtaster

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Edited By Fragtaster

@aiat_gamer: Not that it matters in anyway, but nope - I very much straight. However I have several close gamer friends who are gay, a family member who is, and I both attended school with several outspoken gay people and currently work with one at my job. When I served in the Army Reserve we had not one, but two closet-gay men in my unit. And recently my 27-year-old cousin (ANOTHER family memeber) who I've been close with my whole life recently moved in with a man, and we found out hes secretly gay.

So things like this hit closer to home for me. :)

But that's irrelevant anyway, because one doesn't need to me a minority, a woman, a homosexual, a victim, or anything else, to feel for others and understand when something is incredibly insensitive or wrong. Its part of being a morally aware good and decent human being that we think of how others might be effected by things.

Then again. Offensive or not - as I also mention above: the other issue here is simply that the concept was unsetteling, sickening, immature, and stupid. There are vastly better uses of the space in the game, than magic roofies. The level of perversion in these games have gotten so bad it's comadeered the quality of the writing in the JRPG medium in general. Its like, sex and exploiting girls is all that matters outside the fine-line of the main goal of saving the lands. As a JRPG fan of the 90's it saddens me as much as it offends.

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king_quaps

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@aiat_gamer: does their sexuality have any bearing on their point?

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rosinmonkekyx17

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Edited By rosinmonkekyx17

That's the media for you

No matter how big a detail is, they will most definitely find and bash it

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bigruss51

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@rosinmonkekyx17: Not just the media. Look at the comments on this post. Most have a critical opinion about something.

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holenjd

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That sounds like that is a pretty big omission and could affect the story. If it does then you are compromising the artist's vision which shouldn't be done.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@holenjd: Artistic vision, oh hush. Other M was the artist's vision, do we all agree that that was a wonderful story and that that Samus is canon?

Do we all enjoy the artistic vision of Mass Effect 3's endings?

It's okay to call someone's artistic vision a bucket of third-hand condoms and request changes be made. Artistic vision is not gospel and it is not infallible. Claiming artistic vision is a lazy attempt at shutting down discussion and is wholly ignorant of the wider debate to be had.

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XxParasite

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@holenjd: Did you read the article? The artist's vision was apparently crap.

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Damnation_6

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@XxParasite: Even if it's totally crap let people make their own value judgement instead of deciding for them.

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XxParasite

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@Damnation_6: But the art belongs to Nintendo in the first place, regardless of which individuals worked on it. This is practically editorial review.

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SphinxDemon

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Edited By SphinxDemon

WOW i would have really looked forward to that event in the game. What a story to tell... and now its gone. Thats another bro story to tell the homies if it were to ever happen irl. The CONVERTING part anyways lol drugging is unnecessary

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AyatollaofRnR

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So Nintendo got in b4 SJW's got mad

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Thanatos2k

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Ah, that amazing Nintendo of America censorship.

They're already scamming it up by making you buy the game multiple times, and now this disgrace.

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Damnation_6

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Seriously BAD NINTENDO....BAD. Don't censor stuff....the people who have problems with this need to grow up and act and think like adults. Censorship is WRONG.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@Damnation_6: So you're okay with the story implication of drugging someone against their will, "curing" their homosexuality and borderline forcing them into loving you?

People complaining about jailbait bikini costumes is one thing, I didn't agree with the complaints personally but I can understand why people did. Complaining that this kind of stuff isn't in their game just baffles me.

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Damnation_6

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Edited By Damnation_6

@Dragon_Nexus: Never attached a value judgement to the situation in the game. Ever think this could be thought provoking in any way? Like "This is stupid." or "Why the hell would they think this way or think this is okay?" you know let people decide for them freaking selves instead of making this decision for them. Apparently the devs decided to include this originally for whatever reason. And we won't get to live the whole context of it. For all we know the situation would totally backfire later on making the character in question go through personal growth or acceptance of their homosexuality.

No the choice was made for us because of fear of a politically correct **** storm. The creators artistic integrity might very well have been violated. It could have been thought provoking in goor or bad way.... or it could have been totally asinine too.

Japan used to really not give much of a hoot what others thought....this is changing and I'm not sure that I like it. Good and bad things can both have value because of the lessons we can take from them.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@Damnation_6: I'm sorry, did you just tell me to think objectively followed immediately by your own snap judgement of a situation based on nothing more than speculation?

Being afraid of a PC rage storm is never an excuse that washes with me. Look at the comments. Think they've avoided that?

More to the point, gamers who comment here are the minority. And the minority of the minority gives a damn. Everyone else will play the game never knowing about this and will be just fine with it. For all we know it could backfire later, yes. But it's also just as likely it doesn't and some weird messages come from this.

"Good and bad things can both have value because of the lessons we can take from them." while that's true, I'm not sure a game like Fire Emblem is the one to push a deep philosophical debate on the nature of relationships in video games. And even if it were, what kind of message is this sending out exactly? If a girl's not into you, spike her drink enough and she'll come around to it?

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Damnation_6

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@Dragon_Nexus: I've asked someone who played the Japanese version and she said this whole thing was taken massively out of context. It was not as bad as it's made out to be in the media.

They changed it because they where afraid of the reaction they would get in the west. Self censorship is still censorship.

And even if it was as bad as it was made up to be it wouldn't change my stance; let people figure it out for themselves and don't do it for them.

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parrot_of_adun

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Edited By parrot_of_adun

@Damnation_6: This isn't censorship. No one is preventing them from doing anything. It was their own idea to change content to appeal to different markets. They're out to make money, not a statement.

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Dragon_Nexus

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@parrot_of_adun: Censorship is the wonderful new buzzword these days. It sounds a lot more dark and evil than "localisation" or "editing" or "The artist changed their mind".

If you call it censorship you can pretend you're fighting against some greater evil and feel really good about yourself.

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Damnation_6

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@parrot_of_adun: I'm not so sure see my reply to Dragon_Nexus for more details as to why I think this.

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deactivated-5b19c359a3789

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It begins.

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stage4saiyan

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Holy shit I hate liberals

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Damnation_6

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@stage4saiyan: For the record it's not liberals, it goes against the classical liberal values. It's (some) progressives that are the problem because they have become Regressives AKA the Regressive Left. Something called "critical theory", stemming from Frankfurt school first half of the previous century, is to blame. It's a pretty twisted ideology.

Sorry to throw this on you, I'm a fan of nuance.

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_Plaguelight_

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@YagerMyster: Don't drink anything given to you by a protagonist, or an otaku.

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Dragon_Nexus

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That is kinda messed up, tbh. Sort of suggesting you can "cure" homosexuality in a way.

Though people complaining about its removal need to understand what "offense" actually means. Sure it's likely not deliberately trying to offend, nor is it removed to prevent offense. it's likely removed sinply due to cultural differences between nations.

This isn't a "Nintendo prevents homosexuality" thing like Tomodachi Life, which was pretty stupid in and of itself. This is actually more decent than their other attempts at editing their work. It's not the scene itself, but more what it implies. And what it implies isn't great, tbh.

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Byshop

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Byshop  Moderator

@Dragon_Nexus: Yeah, cultural differences between the US and Japan result is significant changes in any game that gets properly localized. People complain about "compromise of the artist's vision" without realizing just how much gets changed in most games that get localized whether it's because of humor that doesn't translate, cultural references that don't exist in the target culture, and other innumerable differences.

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elheber

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There's a pastebin of the conversation being censored. Kamui did in fact drug her without her knowledge or consent.

Soleil: ... ... ... My weakness is, cute girls. [Kamui responds] Around the type that I like, I end up fainting if I even get near them. It’s not very impressive.

In the next event/scene Soleil doesn't recognize Kamui and he explains it to her:

Kamui: I managed to get my hands on a kind of magic powder… I’m really sorry, but a little while ago, I poured some of it into your drink. The person who drinks that powder… somehow becomes able to see other people as the gender opposite what they actually are!

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jsty

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@elheber: And more context -

  1. Soleil: H-Huh!? So I can see you as a girl!!?
  2. Kamui: Yes. After what you said, I wanted to resolve your concerns, so I thought it over a little. And it led me to a conclusion. Seeing me as a girl, you can use me to overcome your issues. From now on I’ll get closer to you until you can tolerate being around me without fainting.
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elheber

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@jsty: So shady. Kamui has romantic feelings for Soleil but she likes girls, and his plan to help her involves him drugging her and convincing her to get closer to him. I looked it up on thesaurus.com but there's no word for how extremely dubious his actions are. Less certain than "evil" and more vile than "questionable." I'm inventing a word for it: "ubershady".

Bill Cosby would buy the import copy.

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jsty

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Edited By jsty

@elheber: The player character has no romantic feelings for Soleil unless that's orchestrated by the player. There's no 'convincing' involved. It's only seems shady because you're only seeing a snippet of the whole series of conversations and therefore lack context.

Soleil never gets more romantic feelings for Kamui (and vice versa) if the player chooses not to improve her support rating.

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gargungulunk

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Edited By gargungulunk

If it wasn't for an article about it, I bet I'd just gloss over that scene with barely an eye-roll...if the event was even triggered.

After reading the article, I wont miss that scene. It's just weird... /every/ character appears to be the opposite gender; and she has no clue about it? Come-on, She just forgets the main character?

...so is this the Birthright, or Conquest campaign?

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Dragon_Nexus

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@gargungulunk: Girls be dumb, mirite!?

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