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Volition developer blasts used game business

Design director at Saints Row studio warns industry could "fall apart" due to used sales, says an Xbox that blocked used games would be "fantastic."

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The used game business is a contentious issue. For companies like GameStop, sales of used games are big business, but those who actually develop games don't see a dime when people purchase their titles secondhand. One developer recently vocalized his take on the used game market, and it paints a less than lovely image of the business.

Durall is far from pleased with the used game business.
Durall is far from pleased with the used game business.

In a recent entry on game developer blog AltDevBlog titled "I Feel Used," Volition design director Jameson Durall lambasted the used game market and noted that change is needed or the industry will crumble.

"In the end, I fully believe that we have to do something about these issues or our industry is going to fall apart," he said. "People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60. They also don't seem to realize how much they are hurting us when they buy a used game and how pirating a copy is just plain stealing."

Durall, who is currently working on a secret project at Volition, laid out a plan for combating used game sales. He said supporting games with downloadable content will encourage users to hold on to their games longer. However, Durall warned that this tactic only will work if the DLC in question is "compelling and a good enough value" for consumers.

Durall also pledged his support to the online pass schemes being used by publishers like Electronic Arts, THQ, Sony, and others, whereby parts of a game are available only to those with a new copy of a game.

"Some consumers complain about this method because the precedent has always been that it's included in the price and should come with it," he said. "It did for the person who actually bought it first…so was saving that $5 at GameStop worth it for you?"

Looking ahead, Durall said he also embraced Sony's plan to offer digital copies of PlayStation Vita titles--which cannot become used units--at a discounted rate. He said he expects gamers to be enticed to buy digital copies because of their lower price rate and this will in turn lead to fewer used copies in the wild.

Durall also talked about the rumor that the Next Xbox would prevent gamers from playing used titles. Durall said this kind of mechanism would be "a fantastic change for our business," while admitting gamers would not be excited about it at first.

That said, Durall said he believes gamers will "grow to understand why and that it won't kill him."

As for how Microsoft might go about preventing gamers from playing used titles, Durall said the company already has a system in place. He suggests that Microsoft would need to only use a code to tie a copy of a title to an Xbox Live account and make the game playable only on that account.

Durall admits that a system like this would hurt the game rental business and that there are several "faults that would have to be ironed out," but nevertheless, he contends that it is certainly possible.

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DoubleclickTF

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@parrot_of_adun The thing that boils my urine is that I don't even sell my games, yet the industry sees fit to punish me be releasing only 85% of the content to me when I buy the game on day one.

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parrot_of_adun

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@Nugger69 That only serves to support his side. It's a digital title, no used copies.

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HipHopBeats

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Lol, it's always about the dollars at the end of the day. Instead of writing a blog about used games, write a blog about intentions to satisfy paying consumers with better content and less gimmicks like season passes, day 1 dlc and other crap. If devs want to stop sales of used games, start cranking out worthwhile IP's and not rehashes of the same crap. No wonder legacy plats are still in high demand. Gaming was so much simpler back then. If the industry shifts towards digital distribution, I will not be supporting it.

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Nugger69

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tell him to read this article right here on gamespot << LINK REMOVED >>

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DoubleclickTF

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No, games industry. You will not charge me 30 to 40 pounds for a game and then charge me 4 to 15 pounds for each piece of incremental extra DLC. If I am doing you a favour by not selling my copy, you need to give me that DLC for free. If you do not, I am perfectly happy to wait a couple of months for the inevitable price drop, or Xmas sale, or GOTY edition. This goes double if your game is deliberately crippled on release because content has been conspicuously scooped out for use as DLC later. That's just dirty, and it feels bad to us as customers.

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Zackarias-313

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I've got an even better idea...let's make it illegal for people to sell anything to one another unless they're huge corporate business affiliates and start arresting people for selling all forms of second hand items!! Gimme a f***ing break!! Better yet, lets follow in the footsteps of MMORPG's and only allow people to rent games each month, then nobody will ever own anything unless they continue to pay for products that only their creators have the right to own!!

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Landsharkk

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Another thought, if it's 'new full priced games only', guess where people will end up going for the entertainment? Straight to handheld gaming, smartphones, handhelds, etc. You know why? Because the price of games on those devices is ridiculously low compared to a full price console or PC game. This would just result in console or PC game only developers to lose BIG money.

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Yuusha09

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What makes video game developers feel so entitled that they believe they are the ONLY market that is hurt by used sales. EVERY other company has to deal with it, and you don't see them griping about a car or a toaster being resold. Call the waaaahmbulance.

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Tekken312

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I'm in agreement that game stores should give developers a percentage of used game sales. It's only fair and it will (hopefully) get companies like Volation to stop complaining. And to those who say buying used products doesn't support the creator: You're wrong. When people like something, they talk about it, and that generates buzz for the product. The more well-known a product is, the more people are likely to buy it.

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JayQproductions

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don't blame your companies crappy business decisions on used game sales. start selling single player and multiplayer separately for $25-$30 each that way if somebody doesn't want your crappy tacked-on multiplayer they get a good single player game for what the game would cost used.

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Carpetfluff

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@realguitarhero5 PC releases are usually cheaper; so if they're serious about adopting the same model for consoles then the game prices have to drop too.

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Landsharkk

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Another great example of someone who is really showing their ignorance (I'm talking about you, Jameson Durall!) "People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60" Let's take some recently popular titles: Minecraft (made by 1 person) = almost 5 million copies sold. 5 million! Yes, I know Minecraft has been out longer, but seriously the ratio there is so stupidly in favor of Minecraft. It's clear that $ does not automatically mean it's going to be a good game.

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ahpuck

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Here is my solution. New game buyers get all DLC for free. All else have to pay. That will make me buy new all the time.

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mattcake

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They would say that, cos their games are only rentals at best so they wanna get the initial sale before you realise their game isnt up to scratch. I bought SR1 and hated the abysmal framerate but heard it was fixed for SR2... bought that, still choppy as hell but dont worry, we have a new engine for SR3! Anyone with an xbox will tell you it still runs like absolute dog dirt and cars handle like shopping trolleys - STILL. I've fallen for it 3 times and frankly anything else they produce will either be a rental, or nothing, from me. You've had enough of my money. SR is a game with good ideas, looks great in screenshots and carefully recorded videos, but its coded by monkeys and runs like a turkey. I'd be worried too if I were them. If you try and ban rentals, dont complain when piracy spikes, either.

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inaka_rob

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"says an Xbox that blocked used games would be "fantastic." " THIS coming from the develpoer who RUINED, destroyed and have killed one of the best most orignal franchises in gaming histroy: Red Faction. look, Viliotion. I love saints row 3, but you destroyed Red Facation. You did such a poor job with it, the series is over, you said yourself. I dont think used game sails will detroy the industry, just companies like you, games like COD (which WAS good until they made 9 sequels), and gimicky crap and marketing towards 12 years old, IE COD agian and Move and Kinnect.

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Nugger69

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That guy is a f#@king ass. there is no way in hell they will ever get rid of used games.

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Lord_Straffan

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What he's talking about is already in use on steam. Steam has no used games sales between players and it's wrong. When someone buys a game it means ownership or at least it should. EA and the like are such control freaks that they put leashes on everything they touch. And it isn't "only" $60, it's $60 for a $1 disk.

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deactivated-5e7f8a21de9dd

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PC has had this for the last few years. Trust me, console players, not being able to play used games isn't terrible.

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parrot_of_adun

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There's actually an interesting similarity between used game buyers and pirates. What matters (in my opinion) is not whether the user loses money to gain the product, but whether they support its creators in return, and neither piracy nor used sales do that. Everyone defends used copies and decries piracy... Yet all the while, used sales hurt alot more (big numbers and they're clearly willing to pay for the game, unlike pirates). Honestly, I don't support either. I DO however support people's right to choose to do the "wrong" thing within certain limits (wrong is only an opinion, after all). Making incentives to buy new is the way to go, not to shut out used buyers.

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ChiefFreeman

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@xSlider257 I agree. Let GameStop, etc. work out some kind of profit split for the sale of used games. If Microsoft goes ahead with their plan to prevent used games from working on the system, then this Volition developer might not have a job at all in the future, since a lot of gamers wouldn't buy it (myself included). We didn't hear developers complaining about used game sales 10 years ago. Why has it gotten to be such a hot topic the past 5 years or so?

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zeeblebrox

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surely a console that denied gamers the ability to buy/sell used games would turn video gaming into far too elitist a hobby and just fail miserably?

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mrboone01

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"huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60" Yes, "huge" experiences like 4 hour singleplayer campaigns. Give me a break.

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billbradsky

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if you can't sell something, then you don't own it. If microsoft does this I will not buy the next xbox after owning both an original and a 360. If they want to combat used sales they should lower the price of new games.

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S_Pac_316

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Well whatever. If companies want us to buy new games, stop making them so expensive. If there were consoles blocking access it second hand titles, various video game rental businesses will go bankrupt and increase unemployment. So ***** you Volition. See if I care for your games now with this attitude you have.

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DeathwachMarine

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Honestly, the same people buying used games are not gonna buy a full priced game to begin with, so i cant see sales improving much either way. I think used games is a good way to attract more fans if you ask me, because it gets people to try games they would never even consider buying at full price. It would also help if more devs released a goddamn demo for their game. just like gc88 said, just because you spent millions on making a game, doesnt make it a good one.

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The5thFan

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These companies need to stop being so greedy. all its going to do is backfire like someone else said if used games are banned i would imagane many gamers fed up with being screwed over by the industry resulting to pirating games. these companys are also looking to run Gamestop/EB games out of buisnuiss i imagane that a large portion of there profits comes from ripping people off buying used games and then selling them for triple the amount. if it truley is killing the industry like these companys are saying slap the 10 dollar online pass on all games that require online, and thats being more than fair on the consumer part

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Rocker6

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@gc88 Exactly.It isn't used game sales or piracy or anything like that killing the industry.The biggest problem is bad resources and assets managment,very often throwing a lot of money into nothing.If these companies had better resource managing,they would be able to produce less costly and more original games...

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CrimsonBrute

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CrimsonBrute  Moderator

The balls that guy has. "...creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60." Some of us can't afford the $60.

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newbie4lyfe

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tim scaehfer's games got reject because of coporate... that why double fine is makin kiddy games...

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torbonator

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Going from my own and friends experiences the used game business does help new game business as we go on in with old games trade them in and buy brand new games with the credit we have accumulated so I think creating a system where used games cannot be played is horrible. Also we'd lose the replay value of old games that you cannot pick up new like all the old Final Fantasy's and I also have a lot of other old PS2 game lying around. If we can't play used games in 10 years we won't be able to play the iconic games of yesteryear. What I do agree with is blocking some features if you do not buy the game new. I think that creates a good incentive to buy new games but it needs to advertised more as the general consumer market don't understand it just yet.

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nurnberg

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The day I can't sell my games will the day I will stop risking buying bad games. The loser : the gaming industry.

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mrboone01

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@realguitarhero5 Console users don't have access to STEAM like PC players. Which Valve, by the way, is currently working on a game trade system so Steam users can trade games with each other. All this is going to do is push a lot of console players to the PC. Which is fine by me.

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Rocker6

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@edant79 You do realize if used game sales are killed,the piracy rate will jump rapidly? Used game sales killing the industry are just an overblown myth made to milk gamers out of their money.No dev failed due to used game sales,you make a good game,you will make a good profit.It simply goes that way. This article is just an outcry from Vollition due to THQ's finnancial problems,which are unrelated to used game sales...

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charlieboomboom

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meh dont care for any of your games.decent was way back when ,first red faction was great..series no good now..

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nurnberg

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I am going to laugh in a few years when the gaming market crashes and all these developers who supported anti-used measures all lose their job. The removing of used sales will cause the gaming industry to crash.

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Carpetfluff

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I don't buy many used games; but I do know for a fact that I won't be able to buy as many new ones if I can't trade some of my completed games in against them; so that's still new unit sales lost.

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Tripwolf

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Maybe if you sell your games cheaper, ppl wouldn't feel the need to buy used.

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deactivated-5b19c359a3789

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Hah, account tied DRM. Good story. Tired of developers who want to sell you something without letting you actually own it. You made it, I bought it. It's mine. **** off.

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Landsharkk

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Uh, OK Mr high and mighty Jameson Durall! Guess what? You know why I buy a game used and not new? Well it's because I'll NEVER pay full price for that game in question. Guess what? Did you know that buying a game used actually encourages me to buy DLC? Because it does! The initial game price is cheaper so I am more inclined to buy the DLC. Used games don't make developers any money? That's a lie! DLC makes developers money whether it's new or used. If games were never sold as used, you'd never see me buying more new games than I already have. In fact, me buying a used game of say, Darkness, might encourage me to go out and buy the Darkness II brand new, because I became a fan of a whole new series I wasn't sure about in the first place and never would have bought new in the first place. So, Mr Jameson Durall, it's time to put down the pipe.

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Icehearted

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Yeah, so releasing an inferior sequel with "40 weeks of dlc" goes a long way toward making me want to pay through the nose for a new game? After all the dlc and the CE version of Mass Effect 2, I wound up paying approximately $110. That's an awful lot for a video game, and in no way have I been capable of justifying the purchases. It was excessive, and in in industry where such excess is called "innovation", I am compelled to buy used more and more. They created this landscape, flipping us off only seems like it'll wind up pushing more of us to used sales if not for sensibility then for spite. And I don't even need to mention "complete editions".

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newbie4lyfe

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....developer websites dont even sell old games any more... why can we buy used old games? games tend to be out of stock... and not every1 gets to buy play them, so why cant the rest get them used? not every1 has a hand in this market...

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xSlider257

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Hmm, I'm in agreement with the fact that used game sales hurt developers, but I don't see how it could possibly crumble the entire industry. That being said, I've championed this idea for years; have the used game market (ie; Gamestop, Glyde, GameFly, etc) give a small percentage of a used game's sale back to the developer. It's a simple idea that makes everybody happy; the developers get income on used game's sales, the gamer still gets to buy and sell used games and the Gamestops of the world get to stay in business (because let's face it, if developers don't make games, why exactly would Gamestop exist, to sell you fruit?)

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gc88

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"People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60." Huge experiences and throwing millions of dollars into a game doesn't make it GOOD. There's so many great downloadable games for 5$-15$ that didn't cost millions of dollars to develop and are waaaaayyyy better than the games coming out today for 60$. To be honest it seems there is more creativity and originality coming out on downloadable games (I use XBL arcade) than what hits the store shelves for 60$ (shooter, after shooter, after shooter......)

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edant79

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Hate me all you wan't, but I'm glad MS is doing this and hope Sony follows suit. The more money devs get to play with the better it'll be for gamers all around.

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TimboII

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I think people who shop at GameStop/EB (I'm not one of them) need to ask themselves one question when thinking of saving a pathetic $5 on a used game...what's more important: where you're buying the game or the people who made it?

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Rocker6

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Blah,blah,blah,more corporate lies to justify one of the greatest scams in gaming of all times... If THQ didn't make many dumb decisions and produced some mediocre games(don't get me wrong,I like THQ and I hope they pull through,but they made some dumb mistakes),you would be in a better situation,Vollition.Don't shift the blame,used games didn't get THQ and yourself into this mess.Statements like this will only antagonize some gamers such as myself...

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starduke

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What a bloody blighter! If someone buys somethiong, they should be able to sell it, and whoever buys it should be able to use it! It's that way for cars, chairs, print books, whatever, it should be that way for games! They already sold the copy of the game once, and they should be conent with that, and not trying to come up with ways to screw over used game purchasers! Best way to encorage people to buy new games? LOWER THE DAMnED PRICES!

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