Espionage Case UPDATED 31/07/07 - F1 Row To Go To Appeal

With more and more info coming out on this, things are heating up and are certainly far from over. So ive decided to compile everything into one thread so its easier to everyone to understand :)

This is a very serious matter, and could end up with 2 teams and 4 drivers being disqualified. Below is a summary (in chronological order) of the Stepney Saga

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1) Nigel Stepny Accused of sabotage - Ferrari accuse Nigel Stepney, long term ferrari worker, of sabotage and lauch an investigation

2) Stepney Denies all - claiming he is a victim of a "dirty tricks campaign"

3) Stepney Sacked - by ferrari amidst a criminal investigation

4) Mclaren Suspend Employee - believed to be Chief Designer Mike Coughlan, for pocession of Ferrari tech info just hours after Stepney's sacking.

5) Mclaren and Ferrari release their respective statements -

Mclaren Statement: [spoiler]

"McLaren became aware on the 3rd July 2007 that a senior member of its technical organisation was the subject of a Ferrari investigation regarding the receipt of technical information.

The team has learnt that this individual had personally received a package of technical information from a Ferrari employee at the end of April.

"Whilst McLaren has no involvement in the matter and condemns such actions it will fully co-operate with any investigation. The individual has in the meanwhile been suspended by the company pending a full and proper investigation of the matter. No further comment will be made." [/spoiler] Ferrari Statement: [spoiler]

"Ferrari announces it has recently presented a case against Nigel Stepney and an engineer from the Vodafone McLaren-Mercedes team with the Modena Tribunal, concerning the theft of technical information.

"Furthermore, legal action has been instigated in England and a search warrant has been issued concerning the engineer.

"This produced a positive outcome. Ferrari reserves the right to consider all implications, be they criminal, civil or of any other nature, according to the applicable laws." [/spoiler]

6) Mclaren Deny use of Ferrari tech info - in a bid to allay concerns

7) FIA launch sabotage investigation - its investigation will only consider whether any party has breached the sporting code and F1 regulations

8 ) Drivers won't be punished, Mclaren may - According to Bernie Ecclestone

9) Ferrari accuse Nigel of leaking secrets - Stepney accused of leaking the secrets

10) Ferrari says it had external source - External source told Ferrari of missing documents.

11) Spy case court hearing adjourned until tomorrow - preliminary hearing held today

12) Hearing called off - Coughlans/ Ferrari reach agreement

13) Mclaren summoned to FIA council meeting - after being charged with unauthorised possession of documents and confidential information belonging to Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro

14) Mclaren may face expulsion - should the FIA condemn them guilty

15) More individuals invloved - claims Stepney

16) Coughlan showed Ferrari material to colleagues - Coughlan claims in his affidavit

17) Mclaren deny other employees handled Ferrari documents - Claiming Coughlan acted alone

18 ) Police probe accounts as Ferrari row revs up - A Supposed High speed car chase involved?

19) McLaren deny bosses knew of Ferrari Documents - here we go again.

20) Schumi knows more - Mr Schumacher won't let on

21) FIA gives no punishment to McLaren- Guilty of possesion, but not of use.

21) F1 Row to go to appeal - after CSAI intervene

NOTE: All news/updates courtesy of their respective sources.

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IMPORTANT Please keep all discussions regarding the stepney saga in this thread. All other threads will be locked. If you have any news or future updates, post a link here, and I will add it to the first post.

I can't see the drivers being punished for this - it might be what Bernie mentioned as a possible punishment for McLaren at Monaco, where the team (or in this case, teams) are Disqualified from the 2007 Constructor's Championship, however the drivers will still be able to fight for the Driver's Championship. I'd hate to see Massa, Kimi, Alonso & Lewis punished for something they weren't involved in.

If they're out then whoever bet that Heidfeld would win the championship will be a rich man....
KimisApprentice

bernie says the teams, and not the drivers, will face punishment which isnt too bad

McLaren as a constructor may get docked points, but the drivers themselves won't. I feel Ferrari may get penalised too if McLaren do though, however I think both are going to recieve fines if the FIA discover anything.Redders1989

We more than likely havent heard the full story yet, other people may be involved. AND we are dealing with the FIA here:

*flashback*

2005 USGP: michelin tyres aren't suitable to handle the load given by turn 13, michelin request to fly out new tyres

FIA don't allow it as it is "unfair to BStone runners"

....resulting in 7 teams/14 drivers having to pull out for reasons out of their control

the FIA could have easily let michelin fly out new tyres and fined/punished them after the race, but they didnt. The same could happend again...

Indy 2005 was a little thicker thsn that. The tyres hadnt been tested by the teams there which is a safety concern in itself and then there is the law. The law in Indy actually make it out to be illegal to knowingly do something that is unsafe (In relation to sport I think this was mentioned in an F1 Racing mag)

Plot thickening stuff with Honda though right there...

found this:

lmao :lol:

Indy 2005 was a little thicker thsn that. The tyres hadnt been tested by the teams there which is a safety concern in itself and then there is the law. The law in Indy actually make it out to be illegal to knowingly do something that is unsafe (In relation to sport I think this was mentioned in an F1 Racing mag)

Plot thickening stuff with Honda though right there...

KimisApprentice

OK you make a point about safety, but still the FIA could of allowed michelin to fly out stronger tyres then punished them after the race......

On topic: court hearing is suspended til tomorow

Well now McLaren have been summoned to an FIA hearing on 26th July to face charges of breaking the rules of F1.. potential punishments if found guilty as we know can include point deductions from the team and drivers, or being banned from races.

Representatives of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes have been requested to appear before an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Thursday, July 26, 2007.

The team representatives have been called to answer a charge that between March and July 2007, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes had unauthorised possession of documents and confidential information belonging to Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, including information that could be used to design, engineer, build, check, test, develop and/or run a 2007 Ferrari Formula One car.

FIA

Hopefully McLaren manage to argue that the team didn't benefit from the documents.. but ultimately, as the BBC said on News 24 just now, the team is responsible as a whole for it's engineers and drivers. I seriously hope this doesn't affect Fernando's or Lewis's championships.

I agree with Cjek. i hope it doesn't ruin both Lewis's and Fernando's championships. it would be really unfair on them if they got deducted points.

But Ferrari must be investigated because of the sabotage claims made against him, i'm sure Nige would appeal and it would go to the World Motor Sport Council

It's already been said before, and by Bernie, that any points deductions will be to CONSTRUCTORS only, neither driver will be affected by this.

Also, Ferrari took Coughlan to court over "Stealing the documents". Am I not the only one under the impression that it was STEPNEY that gave Coughlan the documents?

Added news

Sorry for the recent lack of updates but.......meh *walks off*

Updated again

Looks like mclaren wont just be a getting a fine and a slap on the wrist. Lets hope they can prove they are innocent, for Alonsoa and Hamiltons sake, im pretty confident they will though. Should they be DSQ, well theres gona be some VERY angry F1 fans and the FIA will feel the wrath of many britons and spaniards

This is bullS**T. Ferrari must've set up this whole sabotage/espionage conspericy in a lame, desperate attempt to get McLaren disqualified just cos they're loosing!

No offense. But I think Ferrari have become a load of downright, desperate, f***ing cheaters!!

This is bullS**T. Ferrari must've set up this whole sabotage/espionage conspericy in a lame, desperate attempt to get McLaren disqualified just cos they're loosing!

No offense. But I think Ferrari have become a load of downright, desperate, f***ing cheaters!!

General-Doug

wow a 6 year old who can spell Espionage :shock:

Good job of that analysis of yours.......real mature :roll:

This is bullS**T. Ferrari must've set up this whole sabotage/espionage conspericy in a lame, desperate attempt to get McLaren disqualified just cos they're loosing!

No offense. But I think Ferrari have become a load of downright, desperate, f***ing cheaters!!

General-Doug

How do you get that? How can you say that Ferrari are cheaters when it's MClaren being investigated? Ferrari only question Stepny, not McLaren. The police did that. Honda had also said they were approached by the McLaren person.

I think you only think Ferrari are cheaters is because:

1. your british

2. You're a McLaren fan!

Go cry somewhere else before you know the facts. If McLaren get penalised then it's their own fault. Not anyone elses.

How do you get that? How can you say that Ferrari are cheaters when it's MClaren being investigated? Ferrari only question Stepny, not McLaren. The police did that. Honda had also said they were approached by the McLaren person.

I think you only think Ferrari are cheaters is because:

1. your british

2. You're a McLaren fan!

Go cry somewhere else before you know the facts. If McLaren get penalised then it's their own fault. Not anyone elses.

JKoBnZ

Doesnt sound like you know the facts either mate...

1) Ferrari HAVE accused coughlan of stealing ferrari intel

2) Honda was approached by BOTH Coughlan and Stepney regarding jobs

3) You make it sound like the whole mclaren team was in on this....it was Coughlan and Coughlan alone who acted on Stepyneys offer.

Coughlan is a representative of McLaren. What he does as an employee of McLaren counts towards the team. Ferrari suspected it and followed through with their actions towards Stepney.

If it was Ferrari that did this everyone would be calling for them to have both championships taken away from them.

If they do penalise McLaren, it will make this years championship very controversial. I'm just asking that people put biases aside and look at it for what it is. Not everyone is a McLaren fan.

Also Don't forget that Nigel was accused of sabotaging a car on the Monaco Grand prix weekend. and is still accused by Ferrari of handing over the 780 page Documents on the F2007

So it seems Nigel isn't as much of an angel as you'd like to think.

Pardon me, JKoBnZ

But what's wrong with showing support for your favoirtie team if they're in a very sticky situation? regardless of how sticky it is.....................Oh wait. is that breaching the sporting regulations?

(P.S, it should be Mike Coughlan himself that get's the almighty b!tch slap of doom from the World Motor Sport Council!)

Also Don't forget that Nigel was accused of sabotaging a car on the Monaco Grand prix weekend. and is still accused by Ferrari of handing over the 780 page Documents on the F2007

So it seems Nigel isn't as much of an angel as you'd like to think.

kipi19

Oh yeah, he should be penalised too.

Pardon me, JKoBnZ

But what's wrong with showing support for your favoirtie team if they're in a very sticky situation? regardless of how sticky it is.....................Oh wait. is that breaching the sporting regulations?

(P.S, it should be Mike Coughlan himself that get's the almighty b!tch slap of doom from the World Motor Sport Council!)

General-Doug

THere is nothing wrong with supporting your team. Just don't accuse the other of cheating when it is your team being accused! Ferrari have been blamed for many things in the past and it is always the british media that blows it way out of proportion.

Anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine, which is fine.

[QUOTE="kipi19"]

Also Don't forget that Nigel was accused of sabotaging a car on the Monaco Grand prix weekend. and is still accused by Ferrari of handing over the 780 page Documents on the F2007

So it seems Nigel isn't as much of an angel as you'd like to think.

JKoBnZ

Oh yeah, he should be penalised too.

Pardon me, JKoBnZ

But what's wrong with showing support for your favoirtie team if they're in a very sticky situation? regardless of how sticky it is.....................Oh wait. is that breaching the sporting regulations?

(P.S, it should be Mike Coughlan himself that get's the almighty b!tch slap of doom from the World Motor Sport Council!)

General-Doug

THere is nothing wrong with supporting your team. Just don't accuse the other of cheating when it is your team being accused! Ferrari have been blamed for many things in the past and it is always the british media that blows it way out of proportion.

Anyway, you have your opinion and I have mine, which is fine.

Uhm.... I think that you are a Ferrari fan there...... I am neutral...... A renault fan..... And I believe that Ferrari is setting this stuff up..... Sorry but in my opinion is against you.......

SO how are they setting this up?JKoBnZ

Lmao conspiracy theories FTW :lol:

So if ferrari set this up, how and why, where the proof that they did it. if they did then they should be chrged , however till then we can only go by what we know.

if Mclaren are found to be in the wron,i think the the team point should be taken away but not the drivers points. if the drivers are punished as well it will make who ever wins the worldchamp, a holo one. I don't think McLaren (like i've been reading in the news papaers and on CNN & BBC) will be'kicked' out of f1. there would be such a backlash from teh fan on all sides. I don't think that even the ferrari fans wouldn't want to see them out of the race.

the sooner that they get this over and done with the better, at the moment it is not helping F1 in any way!

Courtesy of Planet-F1:

`Coughlan showed Ferrari material to McLaren colleagues` Monday 16th July 2007

The possibility of McLaren - and its drivers - being deducted points due to the Stepneygate crisis has been raised considerably after Mike Coughlan, the team's designer, reportedly confirmed that he showed stolen Ferrari documents to 'several' of his Woking colleagues.

It is claimed that, in a sworn affidavit, Coughlan said: "It's true. I had all the designs. It was my responsibility. I showed those designs to McLaren and not just to Jonathan Neale [McLaren's team manager] but to others as well. Everyone reacted the same way and told me to get rid of them."

The development is just the latest twist in a crisis that threatens to wreck the 2007 season and the title hopes of both Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso.

McLaren have been summoned to attend a World Motor Sport Council hearing in Paris next Thursday. If found guilty, the team could be deducted points or even expelled from the Championship. Their defence that Coughlan was acting as a rogue element in the team is bound to be severely undermined if he testifies that other team personnel knew that he was in possession of the Ferrari material.

'One of the biggest problems for McLaren is that once Coughlan had read the documents in his possession, it is impossible to prove one way or another whether the knowledge he gained influenced any decisions he might have taken about this year's campaign, next year's car or anything else he might have been working on,' reports The Times.

It remains unclear how and when Coughlan obtained the package of 780 documents.

According to Italian newspaper La Repubblica, Coughlan claims that he received the papers via an "express courier" mail service. Ferrari mechanic Nigel Stepney has been accused of passing on the documents to Coughlan - a charge he strenuously denies.

Ferrari lawyer Massimiliano Maestretti has also reportedly cast doubt on McLaren's claim that the documents were delivered to Coughlan before May.

"The McLaren statement mentioned the documents were received at the end of April but we have proof that there were more later than that with a May date," he told RAI television.

Thank you. Now tell me where in that article does it say that Ferrari set this up?!

That article says Coughlan received the papers via an "express courier" mail service....so assuming thats true, unless its proven that it was definately Stepyney who sent, that obviously means it was someone else within Ferrari who sent it.

So who knows? Maybe Ferrari sent him 780 pages of complete bullsh** claiming it was Ferrari intel in a bid to get them punished? :roll:

Maybe Schumacher accidentally drop them in his handbag on the way out and went to mail them back but accidentally sent them to Coughlan instead?

Maybe the FIA set it up so they get to punish someone?

Anything is possible :roll:

UPDATED: with number 17

16 and 17 contradict eachother....Someones obviously lying then

You know I give up. No matter what I or anyone else says Ferrari are wrong, i'm wrong and Ferrari set this up. SO you win OK? Is that what everyone whants to hear? I see no point in arguing about this until they give the verdict. I'm stickingto my opinion.JKoBnZ

Quite a contradicting post coming from the guy accusing everyone else of biased comments....You are clearly a Ferrari fan will won't accept others opinions. Others seem to think Ferrari set this up, which is their opinion and they are entitled to that....

I fully agree, it don't matter what team you may support, the truth will come out. so we have to sit tight and wait for it.

[QUOTE="JKoBnZ"]You know I give up. No matter what I or anyone else says Ferrari are wrong, i'm wrong and Ferrari set this up. SO you win OK? Is that what everyone whants to hear? I see no point in arguing about this until they give the verdict. I'm stickingto my opinion.BlaZe_irl

Quite a contradicting post coming from the guy accusing everyone else of biased comments....You are clearly a Ferrari fan will won't accept others opinions. Others seem to think Ferrari set this up, which is their opinion and they are entitled to that....

And i'm entitled to my opinion. No one is giving me their reason why they think Ferrari did it. Instead it's all No your wrong. That's fine. So i say good bye. I'm not staying in a union that agrgues and tells you wrong because you support the wrong team!

d to my opinion. No one is giving me their reason why they think Ferrari did it. Instead it's all No your wrong. That's fine. So i say good bye. I'm not staying in a union that agrgues and tells you wrong because you support the wrong team!

JKoBnZ

Well in that case on behalf of the union, I deeply apologize for any offence caused. We acknowledge that the members were way out of line by expressing their opinions, and were wrong to disagree with you. In the future, we will make sure to delete all posts that appear to bear any kind of opinion, comment etc that alternates from your views or insults your favoured team, and we shall withhold any future conversations, until we have your 'always right' opinion. Once again I apologize

oh and dont let the door hit you on the way out k mate :wink: :roll:

Another sarcastic comment sponsored by BlaZe. Have a nice day!