Espionage Case UPDATED 31/07/07 - F1 Row To Go To Appeal

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kalais91

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#51 kalais91
Member since 2006 • 146 Posts

^^ That post kicked ass :lol:

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DarthZone

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#52 DarthZone
Member since 2006 • 548 Posts
I think its getting a bit hot in here, i'll just go get the hose ;-)
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raju111

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#53 raju111
Member since 2006 • 128 Posts
As far as I'm concerned, if you are in a team that is caught cheating the punishment should be based as a whole team. Driver and Constructors. If they are found guilty, I hope they punish them properly. If Ferrari had done this, everyone would be calling for them to be banned. Now that McLaren have done it, everyone is quiet about it. I hope this doesn't turn into a farce.JKoBnZ
Icompeletelyagreewithyou.
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raju111

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#54 raju111
Member since 2006 • 128 Posts
[QUOTE="General-Doug"]

This is bullS**T. Ferrari must've set up this whole sabotage/espionage conspericy in a lame, desperate attempt to get McLaren disqualified just cos they're loosing!

No offense. But I think Ferrari have become a load of downright, desperate, f***ing cheaters!!

JKoBnZ

How do you get that? How can you say that Ferrari are cheaters when it's MClaren being investigated? Ferrari only question Stepny, not McLaren. The police did that. Honda had also said they were approached by the McLaren person.

I think you only think Ferrari are cheaters is because:

1. your british

2. You're a McLaren fan!

Go cry somewhere else before you know the facts. If McLaren get penalised then it's their own fault. Not anyone elses.

You r right he sound like true British & Mclaren fan :P
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Redders1989

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#55 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Well in that case on behalf of the union, I deeply apologize for any offence caused. We acknowledge that the members were way out of line by expressing their opinions, and were wrong to disagree with you. In the future, we will make sure to delete all posts that appear to bear any kind of opinion, comment etc that alternates from your views or insults your favoured team, and we shall withhold any future conversations, until we have your 'always right' opinion. Once again I apologize

BlaZe_irl

That actually sounds like the ITV-F1 Forum Boards...

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kipi19

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#56 kipi19
Member since 2005 • 4590 Posts

I know that we all may support different teams. i know i support McLaren and Williams, but i do think something suspicous is going on and the FIA need to get to the bottom of it ASAP. as the end of the season will start to draw near the tension will get worse.

For the sake of F1 i hope this matter gets sorted out soon

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BlaZe_irl

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#57 BlaZe_irl
Member since 2006 • 1886 Posts

I know that we all may support different teams. i know i support McLaren and Williams, but i do think something suspicous is going on and the FIA need to get to the bottom of it ASAP. as the end of the season will start to draw near the tension will get worse.

For the sake of F1 i hope this matter gets sorted out soon

kipi19

The council meeting is next thursday, so we should know soon after that.

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kipi19

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#58 kipi19
Member since 2005 • 4590 Posts
lets pray we do :)
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DarthZone

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#59 DarthZone
Member since 2006 • 548 Posts
this is so not what F1 needs at the moment. I don't care who is in the wrong, I just want it to be over and done with. the more people go on about this the more it is going to blow up.
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Redders1989

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#60 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

this is so not what F1 needs at the moment.DarthZone

Agreed. We've already had Indy '05, Monaco '06, Mass Dampers and Monza '06 quali incidents make F1 rather fragile, and this certainely isn't helping things at all.

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kipi19

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#61 kipi19
Member since 2005 • 4590 Posts
I saw a article in the Daliy mail newspaper that was very deep and interesting to read, i have added the article to the forst post, the link is from the Daily Mail website
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BlaZe_irl

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#62 BlaZe_irl
Member since 2006 • 1886 Posts

I saw a article in the Daliy mail newspaper that was very deep and interesting to read, i have added the article to the first post, the link is from the Daily Mail websitekipi19

thanks kip :D......added it to a spoiler to keep it tidy, hope ur cool wit it :wink:

Edit: natuarally, i added another article that made for interesting reading

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icytower

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#63 icytower
Member since 2005 • 10643 Posts

This is the first I have actually really read anything about this.

One word comes to mind, interesting.

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kipi19

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#64 kipi19
Member since 2005 • 4590 Posts
Apprently the Schu knows something about all this but he won't tell
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cjek

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#65 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6910369.stm

They have been cleared due to lack of evidence.. there will be no punishment unless sufficient evidence is given in the future.

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Riamo_10

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#66 Riamo_10
Member since 2006 • 820 Posts

IT OFFICIAL MCLAREN AVOIDS ALL PENALTIES!
http://tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story/?ID=214682&hubname=

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DeathStar17

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#67 DeathStar17
Member since 2005 • 4858 Posts
Hmm Ferrari got some self-ownage...
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BlaZe_irl

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#68 BlaZe_irl
Member since 2006 • 1886 Posts

Dont think we need this thread anymore so I'll unsticky it

Edit: Yeh so, it turns out we do need this so back up it goes...

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Redders1989

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#69 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Here we go again...

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Khoo1992

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#70 Khoo1992
Member since 2005 • 2472 Posts
Why Shumi won't tell the think he knew???
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atlessky

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#71 atlessky
Member since 2006 • 567 Posts

Why Shumi won't tell the think he knew???Khoo1992

Maybe he is the 1 doing it...

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Redders1989

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#72 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Gamespot, yet again, is being a pain, therefore this has to go in a seperate post until it sorts itself out:

McLaren hits back at Ferrari

McLaren has accused Ferrari of spreading false and misleading information about its role in the spy saga so as to tarnish its reputation and destabilise its world championship challenge.

In addition, the British team has responded to its Italian rival's allegations that it has cheated by claiming that Ferrari won the season-opening Australian Grand Prix with an illegal car.

Stung by recent statements from Ferrari and the Italian motorsport federation, and dismayed by the FIA's decision to refer the espionage case to its Court of Appeal, McLaren published a detailed monologue on Wednesday evening intended to "set the record straight".

The letter, written by Ron Dennis and addressed to the president of the Italian motorsport authority Luigi Macaluso, presents McLaren's version of events in public for the first time.

Dennis reveals that his team was made aware of technical irregularities with Ferrari's cars in March after Ferrari's high-ranking employee Nigel Stepney tipped off McLaren's chief designer Mike Coughlan.

But he insists that this disclosure constituted "whistle-blowing" and was in no way connected to the 780-page dossier containing secret Ferrari information later found at Coughlan's house - of which McLaren says it had no knowledge until July 3.

The information Stepney furnished in March concerned two contentious aspects of the Ferrari F2007: its rear wing separator and a floor attachment mechanism.

As a result McLaren requested a clarification of the rules from the FIA, which subsequently introduced more stringent bodywork regulations that forced Ferrari to redesign its floor.

"As far as we are aware, Ferrari ran their cars with this illegal device at the Australian Grand Prix, which they won," Dennis writes.

"Ferrari only withdrew the floor device after it was confirmed to be illegal by the FIA.

"Were it not for Mr Stepney drawing this illegal device to the attention of McLaren, and McLaren drawing it to the attention of the FIA, there is every reason to suppose that Ferrari would have continued to race with an illegal car."

Despite defending Stepney's "whistle-blowing", Dennis says McLaren was concerned that he might be harbouring a grudge against Ferrari and therefore instructed Coughlan to avoid further contact with him.

Coughlan was given the go-ahead to meet Stepney on April 28 - outside of working hours - after he convinced his superiors that it was the only way to stop Stepney from continuing to air his grievances about Ferrari.

Dennis says McLaren believed that this meeting had settled the matter and knew of no more conversations between the two men until July 3.

He categorically refutes the allegation that any other McLaren employees knew that Coughlan had been given confidential Ferrari data by Stepney, and insists Coughlan kept this material at his house for ulterior motives.

"I emphasise that these documents were found at Mr Coughlan's home," Dennis writes.

"No Ferrari documents were found at McLaren's offices.

"Since Ferrari discovered that Mr Coughlan had the Ferrari documents at his home, it has gone to extraordinary lengths to try to maximise the damage to McLaren, no doubt hoping to gain some advantage for the world championship.

"In particular, Ferrari has alleged, without any justification, that other McLaren staff were aware of what Mr Coughlan had done and that McLaren made some use of the documents.

"Ferrari has no evidence whatsoever for these offensive and false allegations and presented no such evidence to the World Motor Sport Council.

"The Council quite correctly rejected these allegations."

Dennis accuses Ferrari of deliberately blurring the distinction between the earlier "whistle-blowing" incident and Stepney and Coughlan's subsequent collusion.

"These [latter] events are quite separate from Mr Stepney's whistle-blowing in March 2007, because during this period Mr Coughlan was acting secretly, in breach of his contract with McLaren, and for his own private purposes, quite conceivably as part of a scheme to leave McLaren and join another team together with Mr Stepney," Dennis writes.

"As regards Ferrari's allegation that other McLaren staff were aware of what Mr Coughlan had done, in its statements to the press, Ferrari has tried to confuse the March 2007 whistle-blowing by Mr Stepney (which McLaren did know about) with the events on and following 28 April 2007 (which Mr Coughlan kept completely secret).

"Let me make it clear: McLaren did know about the whistle-blowing matters in March 2007 - indeed it reported these matters to the FIA.

"However that has nothing to do with what Mr Coughlan did on and after 28 April 2007.

"McLaren management and staff had no knowledge whatsoever about that."

Dennis admits that two McLaren staff, including managing director Jonathan Neale, were shown single pieces of paper which Coughlan claims were taken from the Ferrari dossier - but denies that they either used them or had any idea of their provenance.

"In short these instances did not alert Mr Taylor or Mr Neale that Mr Coughlan had taken possession of the Ferrari documents," Dennis writes.

"Neither they nor any other member of McLaren staff had any idea what Mr Coughlan had done."

Dennis is adamant that McLaren was not only unaware of Coughlan's collusion with Stepney, but did not benefit inadvertently from the information he had gleaned.

"Mr Coughlan himself is categoric that he made no use of the Ferrari documents in the McLaren car," Dennis writes.

"Mr Coughlan's job related to the management of drawing production by the design staff and their sign off prior to issue to our production facilities.

"He did not have responsibility for the performance enhancement of the car."

Dennis says McLaren conducted "a very thorough physical and electronic search" which established that "none of the Ferrari documents were at McLaren as opposed to at Mr Coughlan's home, and that there is no possibility that any of the information in those documents could have been used on any development on the McLaren car.

"At the hearing, McLaren demonstrated clearly to the satisfaction of the World Motor Sport Council that no use whatsoever has been made of any of the contents of the Ferrari documents in the McLaren car.

"Accordingly, Ferrari's continued allegations in the press that McLaren has made use of the Ferrari Documents are entirely false."

Finally, Dennis disputes Ferrari's claim that it was not given a proper opportunity to put its case, pointing to a memorandum circulated to the WMSC (and leaked to the Italian press) and several interventions during the hearing itself.

"Ferrari fully participated in the hearing before the Council," Dennis contends.

"I therefore simply do not understand what basis there is for Ferrari's claim that it was denied an opportunity to put its case.

"It put its case both in writing and orally."

In his closing remarks Dennis accuses Ferrari of dragging the sport through the mud through "grossly misleading statements" about McLaren's actions.

"The reason McLaren was not penalised is that the World Motor Sport Council rightly concluded that it should not be blamed for Mr Coughlan's actions," he writes.

"It based its decision on solid facts and not false innuendo.

"McLaren's reputation has been unfairly sullied by incorrect press reports from Italy and grossly misleading statements from Ferrari.

"This is a fantastic world championship and it would be a tragedy if one of the best world championships in years was derailed by the acts of one Ferrari and one McLaren employee acting for their own purposes wholly unconnected with Ferrari or McLaren.

"We believe that the Ferrari press releases, the leaks to the Italian press and recent events have been damaging to Formula 1 as well as McLaren.

"The world championship should be contested on the track not in courts or in the press.

"We will naturally present our case before the FIA Court of Appeal as we strongly believe McLaren has done nothing wrong.

"It is our belief that justice will prevail and that McLaren will not be penalised."

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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Redders1989

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#73 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

KIMI RAIKKONEN DEFENDS FERRARI:

Kimi Raikkonen has spoken out in defence for Ferrari after Ron Dennis wrote to the FIA, where he stated Ferrari "won the Australian Grand Prix using an illegal car".

"I don't know about the letter but if we did have an illegal car, then the FIA would have disqualfied us from the race" was Kimi's response to the media in Hungary this weekend, where the Finn looks to try and find a way to close the 18-point gap he has between himself and Lewis Hamilton, the championship leader.

SOURCE: BBC Radio 1

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Redders1989

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#74 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

McLAREN MOVES TO PROTECT DRIVERS:

Fernando Alonso was given permission to miss Thursday's official Hungarian Grand Prix pre-event press conferenceafter his McLaren team made an official request to the FIA.

Lewis Hamilton was also withdrawn from his usual Thursday meet-the-press gathering.

Though no reason was given for the action, it is believed McLaren is unwilling to have its drivers subjected to questions regarding the spy-gate scandal and the forthcoming FIA Appeal Court hearing.

McLaren and Ferrari have engaged in a volatile war of public statements over the past week following the FIA's verdict on the scandal, which found McLaren guilty of possessing confidential Ferrari information but did not punish the team because it could find no evidence that it had acted upon it.

The sport's governing body, on the request of the Italian sporting authority, has however agreed to hold an Appeal Court hearing into the matter.

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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Redders1989

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#75 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

RENAULT TO ATTEND COURT HEARING:

Flavio Briatore has confirmed that Renault will attend the appeal court hearing into the spying case as he feels the controversy has repercussions for the whole of Formula 1.

FIA president Max Mosley confirmed earlier this week that the verdict of the initial World Motor Sport Council hearing would be referred to the International Court of Appeal following a request from the Italian motorsport federation.

In addition to McLaren and Ferrari, Mosley invited any other team that wanted the opportunity to attend and speak at the hearing.

And Renault's managing director announced in Hungary on Friday that his team would be in attendance, as the ongoing controversy, along with any possible competitive advantage gained by McLaren, is damaging to the whole grid.

"Absolutely, of course," he said when asked if Renault would attend the court.

"Because I am in Formula 1 like McLaren and Ferrari.

"This issue about this story involves everybody sooner or later and I want to know exactly what is going on because I think it is part of our job.

"If you see the newspapers in the last two months we are not talking about which drivers won the race, lost the race...

"The spy story, if you want, was dominating everything and because we are part of this business we demand to know exactly what is going on because it is probably damaging everybody a little bit including me, including everybody.

"Stuff like this is not good for the sponsors, it is not good for anybody.

"We hope we find a final step and we hope something happens."

SOURCE: ITV-F1

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Redders1989

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#76 Redders1989
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SPY CASE SET FOR SEPTEMBER:

The International Court of Appealhearing into the spying controversy will take place on Thursday September 13, Formula 1's governing body the FIA has confirmed.

The verdict of the World Motor Sport Council was referred to the appeal court last week by FIA president Max Mosley following a request from the Italian motor sport authority.

McLaren was found guilty of possessing confidential Ferrari documents in the initial WMSC hearing after they were found in its chief designer Mike Coughlan's home.

But the Woking squad was not penalised after it was deemed that there was "insufficient evidence" to suggest that it had benefited in any way from the data - a decision which promoted criticism from Ferrari.

As requested in a letter to Mosley by the Italian motor authority last week, Ferrari will be allowed to present both written and oral submissions to the appeal court.

McLaren and any other team that so wishes will also be given the opportunity to speak at the hearing in Paris.

SOURCE: ITV-F1