.:: OrderGate - September 8th 2010 ::.

FERRARI LOOK TO ESCAPE FURTHER PENALTIES

Ferrari looks set to escape further sanction over its alleged deployment of team orders in the German Grand Prix.

The team was fined $100,000 by the Hockenheim race stewards and referred to the FIA World Motor Sport Council after Felipe Massa slowed and allowed Fernando Alonso to pass him for the lead - with the Spaniard going on to take a win that resurrected his title bid.

The WMSC hearing over the matter took place in Paris today, but Angelo Sticchi Damiani, head of Italian motorsport federation the CSAI, told reporters outside that the governing body had agreed unanimously not to impose any extra punishment, according to the Reuters news agency.

Team orders have been banned in Formula 1 since the outcry over Ferrari's handling of the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix, when Rubens Barrichello handed victory to team-mate Michael Schumacher within sight of the chequered flag - even though the German already had a comfortable lead.

Suspicions were aroused at Hockenheim when Ferrari informed Massa over the radio that Alonso was "faster" than him, and then asked if he "understood" the message. Shortly afterwards, the Brazilian relinquished the lead and was subsequently thanked by his engineer Rob Smedley, who also said "sorry" in the same radio transmission.

Ferrari argued that it was Massa's own choice to cede the lead, and that it had simply presented the situation to him over the radio. Alonso had been the quicker of the Ferrari drivers for much of the weekend, but was passed by his team-mate at the start.

SOURCE: Autosport

Ferrari International Asstiance strikes again. Awesome.

FIA to review team orders ban

Formula 1's ban on team orders is to be reviewed after the season following the decision of the FIA not to hand Ferrari any further punishment for breaching the regulations at the German Grand Prix.

Following a meeting of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Wednesday, the governing body announced that the $100,000 fine given to Ferrari after Hockenheim would be upheld - and that no further sanctions would be imposed.

However, Ferrari would be asked to pay the FIA's legal costs for the disciplinary however.

A statement issued by the FIA said: "On 25 July 2010, at the Grand Prix of Germany, the stewards of the meeting found an infringement by the Scuderia Ferrari to the prohibition of team orders interfering with a race result and then decided to impose a fine of $100,000 and to forward the dossier to the World Motor Sport Council for further consideration.

"The Judging Body of the World Motor Sport Council held an extraordinary hearing in Paris on September 8, 2010 to examine this matter.

"After an in depth analysis of all reports, statements and documents submitted, the judging body has decided to confirm the stewards' decision of a $100,000 fine for infringing article 39.1 of the sporting regulations and to impose the payment of the costs incurred by the FIA."

Furthermore, the FIA announced that Formula 1's thinktank, the Sporting Working Group, would be asked to look into the team orders ban.

The statement added: "The judging body has also acknowledged that article 39.1 of the sporting regulations should be reviewed and has decided to refer this question to the Formula 1 Sporting Working Group."

Ferrari welcomed the decision of the FIA - and made it clear that its focus was now on delivering a strong result at this weekend's Italian Grand Prix to help boost its world championship challenge.

"Ferrari has taken note of the decision of the FIA World Council, relating to the outcome of this year's German Grand Prix and wishes to express its appreciation of the Council's proposal to review article 39.1 of the Formula 1 sporting regulations, in light of what emerged during today's discussions," said a statement from the Maranello team.

"Now, all the team's efforts will be focussed on the next event on track, when the Italian Grand Prix takes place at Monza this weekend."

The FIA will release a full explanation of its decision on Thursday.

SOURCE: Autosport.com

Interesting move. Not sure what to think right now really as there are more than one side to every story I suppose.

This is pure proof of Ferrari International Assistance, if i were Massa I'd jump ship if I weren't commited to Ferrari for another 2 years...

This is a ****ing outrage to all F1 fans.

This is pure proof of Ferrari International Assistance, if i were Massa I'd jump ship if I weren't commited to Ferrari for another 2 years...

This is a ****ing outrage to all F1 fans.

kipi19

Yup it's a real kick in the face to the fans :(

[QUOTE="kipi19"]

This is pure proof of Ferrari International Assistance, if i were Massa I'd jump ship if I weren't commited to Ferrari for another 2 years...

This is a ****ing outrage to all F1 fans.

SchumiF1

Yup it's a real kick in the face to the fans :(

Not the Ferrari/Alonso fans though...

What the hell?

£65,000 is nothing to Ferrari!

McLaren break rules and get a £100,000,000 Fine, Ferrari break rules, and its £65,000 fine.... WTF? Alright different breaking of rules etc, but this is just... ridiculous

Well you're talking two different beasts there, kip. Yes, two big ones, but let's look at them both in detail:

McLaren
Espionage, in any case, is a serious matter and in some cases can be a criminal case. Alonso and de la Rosa knew Ferrari's plans for testing, along with details of the car itself. As a result, they got the punishment they deserved.

Ferrari
We presumed that Ferrari had made a decision which, technically, broke a rule which is too ambiguous. There was no definite evidence it was a team order (even though everyone knows it was), and with no description of what a "team order" entails, there's nothing else they could do.

Sorry, but how did McLaren obtain information about Ferrari again?

I sincerly hope Alonso crashes out of the Italian Grand Prix.

Sorry, but how did McLaren obtain information about Ferrari again?dabest2500

Nigel Stepney, who used to work for Ferrari, gave information to Mike Coughlan, who used to work for McLaren. Coughlan then spread the info to de la Rosa and Alonso. Public knowledge is only those three were involved, we don't know about any more internal employees who could've known about the information.

[QUOTE="dabest2500"]Sorry, but how did McLaren obtain information about Ferrari again?Redders1989

Nigel Stepney, who used to work for Ferrari, gave information to Mike Coughlan, who used to work for McLaren. Coughlan then spread the info to de la Rosa and Alonso. Public knowledge is only those three were involved, we don't know about any more internal employees who could've known about the information.

Then why is it McLaren's fault?
If a Ferrari employee gave the information, why is it their fault?

[QUOTE="Redders1989"]

[QUOTE="dabest2500"]Sorry, but how did McLaren obtain information about Ferrari again?dabest2500

Nigel Stepney, who used to work for Ferrari, gave information to Mike Coughlan, who used to work for McLaren. Coughlan then spread the info to de la Rosa and Alonso. Public knowledge is only those three were involved, we don't know about any more internal employees who could've known about the information.

Then why is it McLaren's fault?
If a Ferrari employee gave the information, why is it their fault?

Because McLaren then used that information in their car - they got the entire blueprints for the F2007, so they knew all of the details of the 2007 car and used that to their benefit. Of course, to all the employees barring Coughlan, de la Rosa and Alonso were completely oblivious to what had been going on until Ferrari raised questions.

[QUOTE="dabest2500"][QUOTE="Redders1989"]

[QUOTE="dabest2500"]Sorry, but how did McLaren obtain information about Ferrari again?Redders1989

Nigel Stepney, who used to work for Ferrari, gave information to Mike Coughlan, who used to work for McLaren. Coughlan then spread the info to de la Rosa and Alonso. Public knowledge is only those three were involved, we don't know about any more internal employees who could've known about the information.

Then why is it McLaren's fault?
If a Ferrari employee gave the information, why is it their fault?

Because McLaren then used that information in their car - they got the entire blueprints for the F2007, so they knew all of the details of the 2007 car and used that to their benefit. Of course, to all the employees barring Coughlan, de la Rosa and Alonso were completely oblivious to what had been going on until Ferrari raised questions.

Yeah but if a team gives you their blue prints for free, wouldn't you use it?
It was given to them, not stolen.

Ya but I think Nigel Stepney stole it from Ferrari. I don't think it would have been as big an issue if it wasn't physical copies (or it was in media form I forget). But when an engineer leave a team they always give input from what their old team was doing. But the fact that an actual copy and not just coming from memory is what got McLaren in trouble.

I don't know if the laws are the same in FIA/Europe, but if you're in possession of stolen property, it doesn't matter how you got it, the penalty is the same as if you stole it.

Oh!

Nigel Stepney used to work for Ferrari but moved to McLaren and brought the blueprints with him!

Am I right in saying this?

I wanna say Ferrari had a civil lawsuit against Stepney and Coughlin.

And I don't know if Stepney was planning to go to McLaren or not. But regardless he passed on the blueprints to Coughlin. 

Nigel Stepney used to work for Ferrari but moved to McLaren and brought the blueprints with him!dabest2500

Nope, he was with Ferrari when he passed on the info to Coughlan. As soon as he was found out though, he was dismissed.

I wanna say Ferrari had a civil lawsuit against Stepney and Coughlin.SchumiF1

You'd be right in saying that, but individually if memory serves me right.

[QUOTE="dabest2500"]Nigel Stepney used to work for Ferrari but moved to McLaren and brought the blueprints with him!Redders1989

Nope, he was with Ferrari when he passed on the info to Coughlan. As soon as he was found out though, he was dismissed.

And Coughlan was with McLaren?

[QUOTE="Redders1989"][QUOTE="dabest2500"]Nigel Stepney used to work for Ferrari but moved to McLaren and brought the blueprints with him!dabest2500

BUTTON "WOULD QUIT" OVER TEAM ORDERS

World champion Jenson Button says he would never accept being given team orders in Formula 1 - and would rather quit than be forced to play a supporting role.

With F1 think tank, the Sporting Working Group, being asked by the FIA to reconsider grand prix racing's ban on team orders, there are increasing suggestions that the regulations will be removed altogether.

That would free up competitors to impose the kind of team orders that led to furore among fans after this year's German Grand Prix and the 2002 Austrian GP.

Button thinks such a move would be bad for F1 - and made it clear at Monza that he would not accept being put in a position where he was forced to give up wins.

"If only one driver was in with a chance of the championship then I'd still rather not have team orders but I would understand if the team came to you and said 'you can't win the world championship so don't make it as difficult as you probably would otherwise'," said Button at Monza.

"But while you are still fighting for the world championship it is very strange to me that a driver is told to move over. I don't understand that at all and I don't understand anyone in the sport who would want to race in those circumstances. You are not racing to win are you? What is the point of finishing second?"

He added: "Unless you are here for other reasons than I am. I am here because I am passionate about the sport and I want to win. I want to beat every other driver out there.

"If you are here for other reasons maybe you don't mind moving over for your team-mate. I have never had it in my career. I have been racing for 10 years and I have never been told to move over and never has my team-mate been told to move over for me."

Button's feelings about not having team orders are so strong that he reckons it could influence him to turn his back on F1 too.

"If team orders come in then I will consider my future," he said. "I wouldn't stop straight away, but I think it will definitely shorten my career in F1.

"You don't want to be the driver on the negative end of it but you also don't want to be the driver on the other end. When I won the world championship last year at no point during the season was my team-mate told to slow down or give up a position or anything.

"For me that was such a challenge as you are fighting your team-mate for the title as well as anyone else.

"You are working as a team as you are working to improve the car to fight against all the other teams and drivers and you are fighting for the constructors' championship so it is a team sport. But you are also fighting for yourself and trying to win the drivers' world championship."

SOURCE: Autosport