Anyone think Adventure games are a dying breed and unappreciated?

I'm talking about games like Syberia, Sherlock Holmes The Awakened, The Longest Journey, or Dreamfall. Adventure games like these have a place in games industrybut I think they are unappreciated...and underrated.

Stories are the main draw to games like these. No fancy physics, realistic gunplay, bullet time,or smart AI here, just a good ol` fashioned story telling.I mean, doesn't anyone else think Sherlock Holmes vs Lupin is a awesome idea? I think it's cool! But I'm sure people would be like, "What the hell?" "Get that crap away from me!"

Anyway, I think these games are great.

Yeah I agree....partly.

I mean Dreamfall was a classic, for me the greatest storytelling comes from games like Final Fantasy and LOZ, but these games don't come around everyday unfortunately. I would say sometimes it is under appreciated due to the amount of FPS's and racing games we see nowadays. But to say it's a dying breed; I think SE & Nintendo will put a stop to that (for me anyway)

Yeah I agree....partly.

I mean Dreamfall was a classic, for me the greatest storytelling comes from games like Final Fantasy and LOZ, but these games don't come around everyday unfortunately. I would say sometimes it is under appreciated due to the amount of FPS's and racing games we see nowadays. But to say it's a dying breed; I think SE & Nintendo will put a stop to that (for me anyway)

KingKoop

Only one of the three games you mentioned was an adventure game, and even that one (Dreamfall) suffered from dumbing down, combat sequences, etc.
Had the story been less awesome, that game would have been a disaster - but the story was great, so I'm willing to overlook its flaws.

[QUOTE="KingKoop"]

Yeah I agree....partly.

I mean Dreamfall was a classic, for me the greatest storytelling comes from games like Final Fantasy and LOZ, but these games don't come around everyday unfortunately. I would say sometimes it is under appreciated due to the amount of FPS's and racing games we see nowadays. But to say it's a dying breed; I think SE & Nintendo will put a stop to that (for me anyway)

Planeforger

Only one of the three games you mentioned was an adventure game, and even that one (Dreamfall) suffered from dumbing down, combat sequences, etc.
Had the story been less awesome, that game would have been a disaster - but the story was great, so I'm willing to overlook its flaws.

Click here and look at the genre on right hand side. What would you describe it as?

I know FF is an RPG but I was usung it as an example for storyline not genre.

Click here and look at the genre on right hand side. What would you describe it as?KingKoop

It quite clearly says Action/adventure. We're talking about adventure games here.

Anyway, it is disheartening to see such a lack of adventure games these days and most that do come out aren't even close in quality to the old ones. I mean, the last adventure game to get Editors Choice at GameSpot was--what?--Syberia...that was five years ago. But to be fair, adventure games are partly resposible for their decline themselves because of their unwillingness to evolve in any way. Being stuck for hours, not sure about what you're supposed to be doing and where you're supposed to be going is not fun, some streamlining is necessary. Of course, the most important thing is the puzzle design itself, it needs to make logical sense and a lot of adventure games fail miserably in that aspect making the whole game tedious.

Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy) tried some new things and did a good job (if only the storyline didn't fall apart by the end of the game and there was more focus on the puzzles rather than the Simon Says bits). Then again, Dreamfall tried something new and failed (the story and the characters were the only things that kept it alive). Adventure games are destined to be niche these days, but I'm fairly optimistic about their future. Sam & Max have returned in a triumphant way, and Jane Jensen is also returning with next year's Gray Matter.

This could get interesting!

As a long-time adventure gaming fan and one who has written several reviews, interviews and an article or two on the subject, I don't think they are a dying breed but maybe they are unappreciated. I play ALL genres however and consider myself a gamer and not solely an adventure gamer - so my comments aren't from some AG fan-boy.

AGs are definitely NOT dying. They just aren't one of the only genres out anymore. Back in the day, there was no such thing as an FPS and most of the other genres left something to be desired. The best graphics came from the AG sector. Now with the increased capabilities of PCs and consoles, along with the multitude of other genres, AGs no longer have the monopoly on quality - if anything they lost the quality games tag a long time ago which can partly be blamed on new genres and changing customer tastes, but mostly be blamed on some really bad game designs with puzzles that were not only unfair, but pretty stupid to be honest with you.

I do think that the mainstream press can be partly to blame here. Some of the reviews that come out have nothing to do with the game they are reviewing, but a rip on the entire genre itself. Like it or not, there are many people out there who enjoy point-and-click adventure games. Once a review starts with or includes the damning of an entire genre, you really have to ask yourself if it's fair review. Case in point, the GameSpot reviews of Scratches and Barrow Hill. Talk about a ripping. The readers reviews averaged almost twice as high with Scratches and almost 3 times as high with Barrow Hill. Heck, the Barrow Hill review seemed to be upset because the game was nothing like Silent Hill - all because both games had the word "Hill" in the title...huh? I've had one of my games (a casual Mahjong type of game) get a user opinion that ripped on it because it was nothing like a MMORPG all because my game and the MMORPG both had the name 'Rune' in the title. When I see things like that, all I can do is scratch my head. When reviewing a game, it should be reviewed on it's own merits as a stand alone product - not some reviewers idea of what they think the genre should be along with an opportunity to rip on that entire genre.

On the AG-side of things I think part of the blame can fall on the adventure gamers shoulders. There's a lot of differing opinions out there as to what makes a good AG. For a market that is relatively small compared to most other genres, to be further divided by 3rd-person vs. 1st person, realistic graphics vs. cartoon etc. can't be a good thing. There is no shortage of opinions out there and some are pretty vocal about giving it. I've gotten emails from people listing (literally!) everything they expect in an adventure game and if the game I'm developing does not contain those things - they refuse to buy it. I`m curious if RPG, RTS, or FPS developers get those same kinds of emails. Maybe that is just a normal event for developers, I dunno. Some players are really good at solving puzzles and figuring things out, while others struggle. Even there you will get radically differing opinions on a game - make it too hard and you'll be ripped by one group while praised from the other and vice-versa...

Also to blame are the developers themselves. AGs have a tendency to be very one-sided with only one solution. In other genres, the player has much more freedom to get through an area. There could be several ways of doing it and the players have the ultimate in freedom to find a solution. In AGs, you have to figure out what the developer coded in. That is the only way to solve them. The more difficult the solution, the more likely it is that the player will lose that immersion in your game and it starts to become less of an engaging experience and more of a battle vs. the developer/designer type of situation. Is it any wonder that a significant portion of Adventure Game players REFUSE to buy an AG until a walkthru comes out?

We can get into the whole technology thing, but I don't think that's the issue. AGs enjoy the ability to be 1st person slide show, 1st person 360 degree rotation, 3rd person, or full blown 3d and STILL be an adventure game. All of that comes down to what the designer feels is the best option for what they are trying to accomplish. Solo exploration/puzzle rich? 1st person. NPC/story driven? 3rd person. Ever play a puzzle driven adventure game in 3d? It sucks. All that running back and forth gets real annoying real fast. Point and click is the way to go. A few clicks and you can easily go from point A to point B. All the while your focus is on solving the puzzle, not navigating your way around.

They don't need to be high-tech and using the latest 3d technology to be enjoyed. Anyone who talks about an antiquated interface really misses the entire point of the game (and the genre!). The only real antiquated interface is text-based. Last I checked, the casual games market which is phenomenally huge is using the same game interface I was using on my C64 20 years ago...the only real difference is that the joystick has been replaced by the mouse to move the pointer around.

Last but not least are the stories themselves. If you wanted to play a game with a rich story, AGs were the genre to go to. Now nearly all of the other genres have become more story-rich, so AGs can no longer claim to be the only genre that has has them. Are they dead? No. They just aren't the only choice players have to get their gaming fix.

They definitely are underappreciated but they are certainly not a dying breed.

Culpa Innata, Overclocked, Gray Matter, A Vampyre Story, So Blonde, Sam & Max, and many others are on the way over the course of the next year.

I usually like Adventure games with their relaxing gameplay and how they use story so much that it literally mixes with pacing and level design that it actually becomes part of the gameplay.

I totally agree, although they're still going strong in Europe, and Nintendo seems to be popularising the genre again (with Phoenix Wright, Zack and Wiki, etc).Planeforger

Pretty much.

the fact that gaming has become a trend and a mainstream activity has negative results in more hardocore genres.Adventures face extinction and rpg's face "dumbed-downation":P(yes I mean oblivion).If games become unpopular again(highly unlikely of course,since it is a huge money source) they may be savedHate_Squad

I have a reply to this but it contains alot of text and since it doesn't have too much to do with the topic at hand I'll put it in the spoilers bars so others who aren't intersted won't have to read it. :)

While I agree with you, that your definition of hardcore gaming is near extinction gaming doesn't need to be unpopular to get it back. You just need development costs to cheapen so the developers that once made the games can well make them again. It wasn't so much that the hardcore gaming you define was popular and dwindled it was more so that the games were never popular to begin with. Planescape Torment is known as the RPG God and the must own game, yet it only sold 200,000 copies, and just think that it's the definitive RPG amongst PC's just imagine how much the other lesser known RPG's similar to it sold. So as development costs became higher they had to either adapt to the times or run out of business. This is similar to when Black Isle split into two seperate companies. One which was more dedicated to the more "stream" RPG player Obisdian, and the other that was dedicated to the "hardcore" RPG player Troika. Obsidian has had much success in sales with KOTOR II (I assume it sold good) and NeverWinter Nights 2 while currently going places with SEGA, Troika couldn't turn in profit from their games like Vampire Bloodlines and eventually had to close their doors.

It isn't so much the popularity of games that's the problem (that should actual help the games) but the fact that it costs so much a game. PSN and XBLA is obviously not an option due to the fact that the storage space is so small and people primarly use it for pick-up and play games and I think we know the development costs of the current next-gen platforms now. However if they were cheaper to develop for you'd see more of these games. The DS is an example, though it targets mainly "casual" gamers it has plenty of games to the degree you refer too. Etrian Odyessy, Hotel Dusk, Yoshi's Island DS (referring to the "secret levels"), Professor Layton, etc. (I could name more but I've been typing so long I don't feel like doing more research :P) the Wii has also recently received Zack and Wiki which provides much challenge and depth in it's point and click mechanics. But as we know not all of this is peachy, for every one dedicated small dev you get you get plenty of others trying to make a quick buck.

EDIT - Why won't the spoilers work. :(

I look for Heavy Rain.Macolele

If it's anything like Indigo Prophecy, I wouldn't bother with it.

Yes, totally underappreciated. I rep Tex Murphy and Hitchhiker's Guide here on the forums, so I do my small part :P.

But I'll be the first to admit most modern traditional adventure games suck. Runaway, Syberia, Indigo Prophecy, Broken Sword IV.. all mildly to very disappointing. You can't just slap together puzzles, dialogue and a story and expect a good time. It's a hard genre to get right, you need talented writers with vision (and humor) to create the magic and a game design that doesn't frustrate or bore you to tears.

The DS is a great place for adventures to resurge but as much fun as Japanese developed adventures can be, they aren't the same. They feel more like an interactive novel than the traditional point and click stuff. Which is all well and good but it's not approaching LucasArts or Sierra level material in my eyes, even the excellent Phoenix Wright series.

I'm more than happy seeing the hallmarks of the genre make their way into titles like Mass Effect (conversation), Zak & Wiki (environmental puzzles), Portal (humor) and the hordes of games that stress importance of story and characterization (Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Heavenly Sword, etc.) Even the most cutting edge developers can learn a lot from the likes of Roger Wilco or Gabriel Knight.

I'm resigned to the fact that Adventures, in the traditional sense, were never meant to last. Fortunately from the ashes, it appears the things that made them so memorable and rewarding have now become the backbone for many great games across all genres. And that's not a bad legacy to leave behind at all.