Are JRPG girls wussy?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.243882-279-Wussy-RPG-Girls

Aside from a couple of examples like Mitsuru in Persona 3, I can't think of many strong female characters.

Instead, so many fall into one of these two tropes:

- Cute useless moeblob

- Useless princess/healer type

Can anyone think of any games that have strong female characters like Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell or Nico Robin from One Piece?

And I don't mean 'fake' one dimensional characters who just hit people they know in the face to over-compensate because the writer though that illogical blind agressiveness = strong female characterisation.

JRPGs where the female party members can kill 1000 monsters in cold blood, only to fall apart and become useless at the next cutscene are a bit lame. That isn't 'femeninity', and does not make me care for them, it's just stupid.

Yuna. I thought that one was obvious.

kos mos.

I see what you mean. But there are a lot of strong female protanists as well.

Lightning from Final Fantasy XIII

Sheena from Tales of Symphonia.

Terra from Final Fantasy VI

Tifa from Final Fantasy VII

A few examples.

"Useless healer" is an oxymoron for one.

A healer is the most important party member.

And I don't mean 'fake' one dimensional characters who just hit people they know in the face to over-compensate because the writer though that illogical blind agressiveness = strong female characterisation.

Shell_Kracker

You mean her?

Isn't lightning an example of one of those fake chaaracters who tries to over-compensate by hitting everyone?

That's what I've heard second-hand.

I'd like to see a feamle character who had to make some tough ethical/existential decision, like maybe took an 'ends justify the means' approach to protecting her country, and destroyed an entire town under orders, only to regret it later. Why should that always be the male character?

"Useless healer" is an oxymoron for one.

A healer is the most important party member.

no_more_fayth

Actually, the TC makes sense. When Aeris died, did anyone not just replaced her with a new character and then just equipped Cure 3? She would fall into the "Useless healer". Its a nice ability but they don't need to be used that much if at all. There's someone else who has higher atk and equivalent healing skills or adequate enough to replace these "useless healers"

lightning="And I don't mean 'fake' one dimensional characters who just hit people they know in the face to over-compensate because the writer though that illogical blind agressiveness = strong female characterisation." god i hated her immature ass.

Isn't lightning an example of one of those fake chaaracters who tries to over-compensate by hitting everyone?

That's what I've heard second-hand.

I'd like to see a feamle character who had to make some tough ethical/existential decision, like maybe took an 'ends justify the means' approach to protecting her country, and destroyed an entire town under orders, only to regret it later. Why should that always be the male character?

Shell_Kracker

Princess Rzephilda in Magnacarta2 was a strong female character AND a princess.

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

"Useless healer" is an oxymoron for one.

A healer is the most important party member.

cdragon_88

Actually, the TC makes sense. When Aeris died, did anyone not just replaced her with a new character and then just equipped Cure 3? She would fall into the "Useless healer". Its a nice ability but they don't need to be used that much if at all. There's someone else who has higher atk and equivalent healing skills or adequate enough to replace these "useless healers"

Final Fantasy VII had materia.

Anyone could be anything.

Try playing an RPG where the healer is the only healer.

She would be far from useless.

"Useless healer" is an oxymoron for one.

A healer is the most important party member.

no_more_fayth

And TC: What you heard of Lightning is false. If I understand you correctly anyway.

[QUOTE="cdragon_88"]

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

"Useless healer" is an oxymoron for one.

A healer is the most important party member.

no_more_fayth

Actually, the TC makes sense. When Aeris died, did anyone not just replaced her with a new character and then just equipped Cure 3? She would fall into the "Useless healer". Its a nice ability but they don't need to be used that much if at all. There's someone else who has higher atk and equivalent healing skills or adequate enough to replace these "useless healers"

Final Fantasy VII had materia.

Anyone could be anything.

Try playing an RPG where the healer is the only healer.

She would be far from useless.

No no. the TC is talking about the "useless healers" not the "useful healers" that you are describing. I just named one on the top of my head because remember Aeris was the only one with the limit break that "healed/buffed" your party.

"Useless healer" is an oxymoron for one.

A healer is the most important party member.

no_more_fayth

Ah, ya know what I mean - useless in terms of inner strength - cracks up all the time, is constantly kidnapped, is constantly trying to mollykoddle people instead of getting on with her life and leading by example, has trouble making decisions despite just having punched cthulhu in the mouth, gets wobbly knees when her love interest is about to go on a dangerous mission, etc. Spends her time arrranging flowers, wearing white gowns into combat, etc ;-)

Contrast the description above to this:

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

[QUOTE="cdragon_88"]

Actually, the TC makes sense. When Aeris died, did anyone not just replaced her with a new character and then just equipped Cure 3? She would fall into the "Useless healer". Its a nice ability but they don't need to be used that much if at all. There's someone else who has higher atk and equivalent healing skills or adequate enough to replace these "useless healers"

cdragon_88

Final Fantasy VII had materia.

Anyone could be anything.

Try playing an RPG where the healer is the only healer.

She would be far from useless.

No no. the TC is talking about the "useless healers" not the "useful healers" that you are describing. I just named one on the top of my head because remember Aeris was the only one with the limit break that "healed/buffed" your party.

Yuffie had a limit break like that.

And okay, I see what you mean.

Some of them are known to be ditzy and useless in cutscenes.

[QUOTE="Shell_Kracker"]

And I don't mean 'fake' one dimensional characters who just hit people they know in the face to over-compensate because the writer though that illogical blind agressiveness = strong female characterisation.

no_more_fayth

You mean her?

Yes lol.

There are just as many as those in WRPG.

There are just as many as those in WRPG.

wiouds

Very true.

Sheena from Tales of Symphonia.

A few examples.

lazyathew

Good example - I didn't know about Sheena - although I need a Gamecube and/or other pricey thing to play that :-(

[QUOTE="lazyathew"]

Sheena from Tales of Symphonia.

A few examples.

Shell_Kracker

Good example - I didn't know about Sheena - although I need a Gamecube and/or other pricey thing to play that :-(

I personally thought Yuna to be a very strong female protagonist.

FF titles seem to have stronger female characters, and Tifa/Yuna are fairly well known examples, but there has got to be more?

Also, in Tifa's case, she is just written as a tomboy basically, rather than a mature descision-making woman per se.

Shin Megami Tensei has some:

- Mitsuru Kirijo from Persona 3

- Argilla from Digital Devil Saga

Also I hear this character from Suikoden isn't bad:

Note how she is actually wearing armor, and not a full-lenght white dress with a flower chain in her hair or something.

Well lulu from FFX wasn't

and Jessics from DQVIII

The Tales characters tend to have strong female characters who are quite useful in battle.

Are talking about game play or character?

Character.

JRPG may be reflect to society in the east of the globe. Either the person is very wussy (because they are just being polite) or very dominant (because of their strong determination ala Michelle Yeoh, Zang zi yi). human asthetic. One thing is the women in the east is a good cook and take care family better. From there we can see why most JRPG female character always be the "healer" or "white mage".

Character.

Shell_Kracker

Alright since we are just talking about the character then I can say I have never seen a more whiny character in any video game than Jack from Mass Effect 2 and that is a action choose you own adventure. People try to defend her as having a bad past. That is way she is so whiny. Every time they show her she just whines about her past. Other characters with bad past have it as motivation but not focus on it and whine about it. I think characters that have sad past and still willing to see the bright side of things are strong characters.

Lightning isn't the most amazing character ever, but she's not "fake." Part of the problem is her English VA is a little one note. I wouldn't call other FF characters like Fang, Tina, Celes, or Tifa "weak" or "useless" either. Even if Dagger from FFIX was a stereotype battle wise, she had determination and strength as a character.

Gradiel from Princess Crown would fit the bill, I think. I'm playing this game now.

More than that, from Persona 2 the female leads are all strong characters. Ginko, Maya, and Yukino.

Valkyria Chronicles has a number of strong female characters.

There are really many JRPGs where girls kick ass.

basically any final fantasy related female character would not be classifed as a wussevilmaster2424

so ff, tales of and many more important jrps series have strong female elads, so what are they complaining now? of course in some games there will be the healer princess and the warrior man, i prefer it actually that having a girly healer like anders

One of the biggest problem that JRPG have is that many start at calling the character a sterotype and refuse to move.

"Useless healer" is an oxymoron for one.

A healer is the most important party member.

no_more_fayth

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

"Useless healer" is an oxymoron for one.

A healer is the most important party member.

Nerkcon

Healers get Holy or a holy-related spell.

Healers on most games get support magic like Protect and Haste.

Healers on most games get the ability to revive a character at full health.

Need I go on?

[QUOTE="Nerkcon"][QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

"Useless healer" is an oxymoron for one.

A healer is the most important party member.

no_more_fayth

Healers gets Holy or a holy-related spell.

Healers on most games get support magic like Protect and Haste.

Healers on most games get the ability to revive a character at full health.

Need I go on?

[QUOTE="no_more_fayth"]

[QUOTE="Nerkcon"] Well it depends, the healer could be really incompetent and/or just using healing items works better so having a dedicated healer just cripples the group because that slot would had been better with another damage dealer.Nerkcon

Healers gets Holy or a holy-related spell.

Healers on most games get support magic like Protect and Haste.

Healers on most games get the ability to revive a character at full health.

Need I go on?

In a game like Legend of Dragoon of course it works better to use items to heal... because that's the only way to heal (not counting in Dragoon form)

There was a guy in one of my topics who claimed that the reason Japanese female characters come across as weak to some if because of the way Japan treats and portrays women in general and that it translates to their portrayal in the media. I'm not sure if that's true or not since i'm not really into Japanese culture but when considering the forms of entertainment and other more bizarre internet adult media like tenacle hentai and that kind of stuff, portraying women as schoolgirls and so on, his point isn't entirely without merit.

But as I said, I don't know - I don't look at Japanese animated pornography or anything...

There are plenty of strong female leads in anime/manga - its just that JRPGs (essentially anime/manga in game form) don't seem to have so many.

Like I mentioned on the previous page, I have trouble thinking of any JRPG woman who is like Motoko Kusanagi (and also not a villain or minor character).

[QUOTE="Shell_Kracker"]

Character.

wiouds

Alright since we are just talking about the character then I can say I have never seen a more whiny character in any video game than Jack from Mass Effect 2 and that is a action choose you own adventure. People try to defend her as having a bad past. That is way she is so whiny. Every time they show her she just whines about her past. Other characters with bad past have it as motivation but not focus on it and whine about it. I think characters that have sad past and still willing to see the bright side of things are strong characters.

Jack is self-obsessed, but that isn't neccecarily a weak characterisation, because real people are often self-obsessed.

Her whining may not be entirely without justification, but unfortunatly humans hate to hear others whining - only to expect people to empathise with their troubles. Nobody likes an egotist, despite most people being egotists themselves, so we learn to shut up and obey social cues - not to use too many pronoun sentences about ourselves - even meditate our egoism away. Like most people who never pick those cues up, Jack thinks she does not need to, or apparently does not seek intimate human contact/friendship. At least, that is how she constantly self-justifies to people that she alegedly does not care about the opinions of - in reality, if she didn't care what Shepard, and others, thought about her, why say anything at all?

However, I wouldn't call her a perticularily strong-minded character, as she basically seems to be overcompensating for having been abused.

What makes me laugh is how Final Fantasy X and XII had all three of the sterotype female characters. The wussy one, the spunky young one and the over aggresive one. I think if there is a 4th it will be the slutty one, the one with the really big boobs and is normally a bit more mature but everything she says pretty much has to be along the lines of "you want to shag me!"

There was a guy in one of my topics who claimed that the reason Japanese female characters come across as weak to some if because of the way Japan treats and portrays women in general and that it translates to their portrayal in the media. I'm not sure if that's true or not since i'm not really into Japanese culture but when considering the forms of entertainment and other more bizarre internet adult media like tenacle hentai and that kind of stuff, portraying women as schoolgirls and so on, his point isn't entirely without merit.

But as I said, I don't know - I don't look at Japanese animated pornography or anything...

Starshine_M2A2

Japanese female characters in movies, animation and most games have far stronger leads than in western movies, animations and games. They are often portrayed as being stronger than men, both mentally and (sometimes) fizically.

That's why it just baffles my mind as to why people would even assume such a plain wrong thing. And you. 'Tentacle hentai' ? Portraying women as schoolgirls? There are far worser thing, in each and single one of our countries around the world, represented by the internet. Generalizing is a no go.

What the ** is wrong with you guys, look at it from a broader perspective, not from such a tiny box.

No they aren't, they're just written to be that way by developers who's culture likely dictates some sort of archetype for females in the genre. It isn't nearly as bad as it used to be, but still, the old cliches have got to go.

[QUOTE="Evil_Saluki"]

I think your the one who's not seeing it. Look at the review for The Third Birthday on Gamespot, it pretty much sums up what I'm going to say. A female lead, but just because she is in the lead doesn't mean she's scoring one for all women kind out there. Yeah Japs use female leads more often then the westerns, but not for the right reasons.

Lucianu

I meant to say - *strong* female protagonists (important to the plot, main characters), wether they are in the lead or not (they could very well be also in the lead) was not my main point. My understanding of english words is mediocre (3rd language and all), it was a mistake. With that said, your perception is wrong. And you see that is pretty much the only thing that slighty gets to me sometimes, wether in real life or the not. -> Ignorance and bull***. Yeah, stereotyping a whole nation of what their views of females are, that's real nice.

I'm seeing it just fine, son. Maybe wen you're older, you'll dislike the smell of bull*** as much as i do..

I smell bull**** quite a lot living in the countryside of the South West of the UK. I don't like it, especially when they start muck spreading the fields near me.

Japs

Evil_Saluki

The term is Japanese.

I think that j rpg developers are huge perverts.Some female characters are just funny,silly and way over the top.While I think women should be portrayed in a more realistic view.I know some women giggle and even get offended by the way they portrayed in certain video games.

I dont know about wussy as in many jrpgs girls and guys can conjure up stuff that can knock out godzilla but as far as all the other stuff goes I think jrpg developers are huge perverts.