Braid XBLA- If you've ever complained about mediocrity in games...
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[QUOTE="F1Lengend"]I put this Tom Mc Shea guy on my ignore list after he gave Eden a 7.0 so I take his reviews with a grain of salt but thats a really good score nonetheless.CarnageHeart
It was that guy? So I know Braid is easy (Tom's not a big fan of challenge) and short (which is something everyone agrees on). I'd pick it up for $10, but for $15 I'll pass. No point supporting price inflation.
Mmm, actually, Braid isn't all that easy, especially when you get into some of the more elaborate challenges and the timed runs...and the game appears to be short, but there is some other things other than the timed runs and such that add playability that absolutely NOTHING directly indicates what these things are...Otherwise, the price is high, but for what I've gotten, I'm happy with it. The game is simply amazing, and Tom's review is completely on point. If you aren't happy with his review, there's a slew of other websites who equally find it to be an extremely high quality game.
[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"][QUOTE="F1Lengend"]I put this Tom Mc Shea guy on my ignore list after he gave Eden a 7.0 so I take his reviews with a grain of salt but thats a really good score nonetheless.Skylock00
It was that guy? So I know Braid is easy (Tom's not a big fan of challenge) and short (which is something everyone agrees on). I'd pick it up for $10, but for $15 I'll pass. No point supporting price inflation.
Mmm, actually, Braid isn't all that easy, especially when you get into some of the more elaborate challenges and the timed runs...and the game appears to be short, but there is some other things other than the timed runs and such that add playability that absolutely NOTHING directly indicates what these things are...Otherwise, the price is high, but for what I've gotten, I'm happy with it. The game is simply amazing, and Tom's review is completely on point. If you aren't happy with his review, there's a slew of other websites who equally find it to be an extremely high quality game.
*Shrugs* IGN's review spoke very highly of Braid, but seemed more grounded than say, Eurogamer's (which talked about how Braid would cause flashbacks of one's real life and suchlike, which didn't happen to me during the demo) and it indicated that Braid is short and lacks replayability. I can live with one or the other, but 15 dollars for a game that purportedly suffers from both problems strikes me as a little much.
The only downside to Braid is its length. This is one short game. Completing the full game will only take a few hours, unless you get really stuck on one of the puzzles. And once you know how to beat each puzzle, there is no reason to come back. The difficulty never scales. Not even the addition of a speed run (can you complete Braid in under an hour?) can do much to retain interest in Braid when the final chapter is read.
http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/896/896371p1.html
I'm not arguing with those who love Braid and believe its worth every penny of the price they paid, I am just saying that based on my criteria and my experience with the demo, Braid doesn't merit purchase at the current asking price. I don't want to throw this thread off, so I'll stop here.
*Picture removed due to language content*
:(
I finally got to play Braid. I'm on world 4 and so far I've gotten all the puzzle pieces but I wouldn't call this game easy compared to most other modern platformers. All puzzles require lots of thinking and almost flawless execution. If it wasn't for the time rewind the game could be very frustrating.
One thing is that part of the game's draw is its focus on things not being always or apparant. This is embodied by the fact that there is an entire aspect of the game that none of the reviews that I've seen even indicate exists..perhaps because most people reviewing the game either don't want to spoil this aspect of the game, or perhaps never found out about it, given how its implementation is so subtle, that even when some people initially found out about this extra aspect of the game, posters over on the Braid board of GameFAQs initially thought people were flat out lying about something until others found out about it, too.*Shrugs* IGN's review spoke very highly of Braid, but seemed more grounded than say, Eurogamer's (which talked about how Braid would cause flashbacks of one's real life and suchlike, which didn't happen to me during the demo) and it indicated that Braid is short and lacks replayability. I can live with one or the other, but 15 dollars for a game that purportedly suffers from both problems strikes me as a little much.
The only downside to Braid is its length. This is one short game. Completing the full game will only take a few hours, unless you get really stuck on one of the puzzles. And once you know how to beat each puzzle, there is no reason to come back. The difficulty never scales. Not even the addition of a speed run (can you complete Braid in under an hour?) can do much to retain interest in Braid when the final chapter is read.
http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/896/896371p1.html
I'm not arguing with those who love Braid and believe its worth every penny of the price they paid, I am just saying that based on my criteria and my experience with the demo, Braid doesn't merit purchase at the current asking price. I don't want to throw this thread off, so I'll stop here.
CarnageHeart
I really don't want to say much more without directly spoiling what I'm referring to, and perhaps this won't change your feelings on the matter anyways, but the experience the game, especially at the ending and even beyond, is really, really unique in the realm of games, IMHO.
Otherwise, I've indicated earlier what the developer's rationale for the pricepoint was. He expects this game to not put up big numbers sales wise, and he has to at least make enough off the sales to be able to be profitable with the production, even with him doing things like liscencing out pre-made music to be used in the game as opposed to having someone specifically write songs for the game, and so forth, in order to make it more likely he'll draw a profit from this project.
OMG, I'm too stupid for this game. The first world alone (second?) took me way more than an hour. My worst enemy is the puzzle-type game, and it seems this time I've just bitten a little more than I could chew.
Nevertheless, the very premise of the game is a refreshing change, and I'm quite happy I forked out the 1200 points. Being stupid as I am, this game will last me quite more than a few hours. ^__^
im not much for speed running replays, so it seems the game would lose all of its value once it is finished? if i am wrong correct me, but dont tell me how :P
im having trouble paying $12 for a game i will finish in one sitting and probably never touch again. im trying to find some MS points on the cheap and i think in the end that is what will be the deciding factor.
If you want to actually complete everything in the game from what I can tell, it will definitely take more than one sitting to pull off. I can't really say whether this extra aspect of the game (which, from what I also tell, requires that you start a new game from scratch to be able to pull off after a certain point) will be worth it or not yet...but there's definitely more than what the game seems to offer initially.im not much for speed running replays, so it seems the game would lose all of its value once it is finished? if i am wrong correct me, but dont tell me how :P
im having trouble paying $12 for a game i will finish in one sitting and probably never touch again. im trying to find some MS points on the cheap and i think in the end that is what will be the deciding factor.
OneWingedAngeI
This week's Penny Arcade is spot on.:P (language warning for you young kids)rragnaar
Awesome. :lol:
[QUOTE="rragnaar"]This week's Penny Arcade is spot on.:P (language warning for you young kids)SteelAttack
Awesome. :lol:
Yup.
[QUOTE="SteelAttack"][QUOTE="rragnaar"]This week's Penny Arcade is spot on.:P (language warning for you young kids)inoperativeRS
Awesome. :lol:
Yup.
As much as I'm digging Braid (which I totally didn't expect and completely hit me like a ton of bricks off the radar), people really have come to expect a certain ceiling with XBLA. I didn't stick to my guns on pricing dictating what I purchase on the service, but a lot of people will for reasons I've already detailed before. Braid is a platformer/puzzler, which isn't exactly the hottest genre right now. It's the second most expensive game released on the service after nearly THREE years. Only a small percentage of 360 owners buy digitally distributed content to begin with, so the game's exposure is already somewhat limited. And, it's been well-publicized that Braid is a short game with little replay value (how true this is depends on the player -- I happen to be a dumbass and spent a few hours getting the first (second) level cleared of all puzzle pieces.
Given all that, the backlash should not only be understandable, but expected. PA's comic is basically using the Kutaragi defense of saying "$600 isn't that much. Hell, you people spend $600 on room and board or airline fare for a week's vacation. Get a second job if you don't like it." Anything can be justified when framed properly, but that doesn't mean people are going to buy it.
Which is probably why the pricing was as high as it was, though, given what I've read about the developer commenting on the pricing. The way I see it, the developer invested X amount of money into the game, and had to be sure that he was goign to make a return on the investment to some degree. He figured probably that at least a few thousand, maybe a few 10k of people will end up buying the game, and the money gained from that would be enough to keep him afloat, whereas the risk of making the game 10 dollars or less might not have worked out as well to his favor if the sales didn't increase heavily as a result.As much as I'm digging Braid (which I totally didn't expect and completely hit me like a ton of bricks off the radar), people really have come to expect a certain ceiling with XBLA. I didn't stick to my guns on pricing dictating what I purchase on the service, but a lot of people will for reasons I've already detailed before. Braid is a platformer/puzzler, which isn't exactly the hottest genre right now. It's the second most expensive game released on the service after nearly THREE years. Only a small percentage of 360 owners buy digitally distributed content to begin with, so the game's exposure is already somewhat limited. And, it's been well-publicized that Braid is a short game with little replay value (how true this is depends on the player -- I happen to be a dumbass and spent a few hours getting the first (second) level cleared of all puzzle pieces.Shame-usBlackley
[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]Which is probably why the pricing was as high as it was, though, given what I've read about the developer commenting on the pricing. The way I see it, the developer invested X amount of money into the game, and had to be sure that he was goign to make a return on the investment to some degree. He figured probably that at least a few thousand, maybe a few 10k of people will end up buying the game, and the money gained from that would be enough to keep him afloat, whereas the risk of making the game 10 dollars or less might not have worked out as well to his favor if the sales didn't increase heavily as a result.As much as I'm digging Braid (which I totally didn't expect and completely hit me like a ton of bricks off the radar), people really have come to expect a certain ceiling with XBLA. I didn't stick to my guns on pricing dictating what I purchase on the service, but a lot of people will for reasons I've already detailed before. Braid is a platformer/puzzler, which isn't exactly the hottest genre right now. It's the second most expensive game released on the service after nearly THREE years. Only a small percentage of 360 owners buy digitally distributed content to begin with, so the game's exposure is already somewhat limited. And, it's been well-publicized that Braid is a short game with little replay value (how true this is depends on the player -- I happen to be a dumbass and spent a few hours getting the first (second) level cleared of all puzzle pieces.Skylock00
so basically you see it as the small amount of people who did buy the game were going to buy it regardless of if it were 800 or 1000 or 1200 points? i hadnt considered that, probably because i do not fit into that category. Maybe the number of people who would have bought it cheaper didnt add up to what he would make off the smaller number priced higher? I don't know, maybe he has some data we dont.
Supposedly, part of what he used as a reference was Space Giraffe, which was a independent game made by a few people, and released about a year ago on XBLA. It sold about 10k in its first two weeks, and overall sales thus far supposedly don't even break 20k. The developer of Space Giraffe was actually rather disappointed by the sales, with a remake of Frogger outselling Space Giraffe by a factor of 10-to-1 in a single week.so basically you see it as the small amount of people who did buy the game were going to buy it regardless of if it were 800 or 1000 or 1200 points? i hadnt considered that, probably because i do not fit into that category. Maybe the number of people who would have bought it cheaper didnt add up to what he would make off the smaller number priced higher? I don't know, maybe he has some data we dont.
OneWingedAngeI
Thus, Jon's rationale (well, my interpretation of Jon's rationale) is that interest in these sorts of original games isn't going to be as high as remade games (ie. Bionic Commando) and the such, pricing the game higher is simply betting on the notion that the people that /will/ buy the game, regardless of price, will be enough to at least break even, with those that might buy it later being good for extra.
People talk about holding out for Bionic Commando, since it's cheaper, but the point is that a game like Bionic Commando can stand to be cheaper, because it is guarenteed to have a larger influx of people who are going to buy it without question, making it more likely to break even on that initial rush...an independent, original, niche game like Braid? Not so much, perhaps.
[QUOTE="OneWingedAngeI"]Supposedly, part of what he used as a reference was Space Giraffe, which was a independent game made by a few people, and released about a year ago on XBLA. It sold about 10k in its first two weeks, and overall sales thus far supposedly don't even break 20k. The developer of Space Giraffe was actually rather disappointed by the sales, with a remake of Frogger outselling Space Giraffe by a factor of 10-to-1 in a single week.so basically you see it as the small amount of people who did buy the game were going to buy it regardless of if it were 800 or 1000 or 1200 points? i hadnt considered that, probably because i do not fit into that category. Maybe the number of people who would have bought it cheaper didnt add up to what he would make off the smaller number priced higher? I don't know, maybe he has some data we dont.
Skylock00
Thus, Jon's rationale (well, my interpretation of Jon's rationale) is that interest in these sorts of original games isn't going to be as high as remade games (ie. Bionic Commando) and the such, pricing the game higher is simply betting on the notion that the people that /will/ buy the game, regardless of price, will be enough to at least break even, with those that might buy it later being good for extra.
People talk about holding out for Bionic Commando, since it's cheaper, but the point is that a game like Bionic Commando can stand to be cheaper, because it is guarenteed to have a larger influx of people who are going to buy it without question, making it more likely to break even on that initial rush...an independent, original, niche game like Braid? Not so much, perhaps.
Space Giraffe was an awful game, though. And that's coming from me, a Minter fan. Seriously, Tempest 2k it was not. I think that had just as much (if not more) to do with Space Giraffe bombing than pricing or anything else. It just wasn't a very good game.
I see the developer's point, as there are many good games that bomb (Beyond Good and Evil and Ico spring to mind), but using Space Giraffe hurts his argument instead of helping it, in my opinion.
I think the main reason he used it was from the standpoint of its pricing, which was 5 bucks, and the fact that it's one of the few games for XBLA where he could find some hard numbers on it's sales, I suppose...I'm personally trying to find other games with hard numbers, but with no luck.Space Giraffe was an awful game, though. And that's coming from me, a Minter fan. Seriously, Tempest 2k it was not. I think that had just as much (if not more) to do with Space Giraffe bombing than pricing or anything else. It just wasn't a very good game.
I see the developer's point, as there are many good games that bomb (Beyond Good and Evil and Ico spring to mind), but using Space Giraffe hurts his argument instead of helping it, in my opinion.
Shame-usBlackley
this is some good discussion guys. do we have any numbers on how much it cost to develop a game like braid? im trying to get more understanding on what you need to pull in for a game like this to turn a profit. I think it would be great, if not for us then at least for the devs, to have some charted data to look at in terms of knowing how much the game costs versus what it will pull in, and also a more realistic view of what kind of sales they can expect. obviously a game like bionic commando is going to sell more just because of the name and the fact that is a known hit. i dont think that is surprising.
it seems to me that one thing they have underused on the XBL would be a special intro pricing. i think that would REALLY help get word out about a game. they shouldnt use it willy nilly though, MS should really comb through the games they think are great concepts that might not sell well, like this very game.
Given all that, the backlash should not only be understandable, but expected. PA's comic is basically using the Kutaragi defense of saying "$600 isn't that much. Hell, you people spend $600 on room and board or airline fare for a week's vacation. Get a second job if you don't like it." Anything can be justified when framed properly, but that doesn't mean people are going to buy it.
Shame-usBlackley
Exactly. It's PA and I'm not going to dig on them just for being funny, but I'd have a big problem with anyone trying to use their arguments in a real discussion. Price needs to be put into context before you can decide whether or not it's reasonable. As far as downloadable games go, nearly every other game out there is 10 bucks or less. I just bought PixelJunk Eden the other day for 10 bucks, and I've already sunk around 3 hours into it...and I've only beat the first two gardens! I'm understand this guy needs money to make a profit or feed himself or whatever, but it's not my fault that there's so many other choices at a cheaper price point.
I'm understand this guy needs money to make a profit or feed himself or whatever, but it's not my fault that there's so many other choices at a cheaper price point. TeufelhuhnAnd that's fine.
My point is simply that chances are there was going to be this aproximate set number of people who were going to buy the game no matter what, and perhaps to some degree, the pricing was done as a way to guarentee that at least with that small number of sales, the game would break even, is all.
I'm not trying to say that it's not an expensive XBLA game, because it is, I'm just exploring explanations behind the pricing.
People talk about holding out for Bionic Commando, since it's cheaper, but the point is that a game like Bionic Commando can stand to be cheaper, because it is guarenteed to have a larger influx of people who are going to buy it without question, making it more likely to break even on that initial rush...an independent, original, niche game like Braid? Not so much, perhaps.
Skylock00
Yes, but lets' look at the flipside of that:
Bionic Commando: Rearmed is a remake of one of the most popular action games of all time and it looks to be one of the hottest XBLA downloads. Capcom knew they could get a higher price point for it but they opted to keep the price within established parameters. Rather than annoy consumers by breaking the ceiling, they are giving gamers a quality game for a reasonable value. (And understand, I'd personally pay 60 bucks for a Bionic Commando remake)
Jon's need to recoup his development costs isn't my problem as a consumer. In fact, that strategy is not only offensive but would be a logistical nightmare if applied to other products. Can you imagine a film studio releasing a smaller film at twice the ticket price to compensate for lower potential revenue? Would filmgoers be okay with such a strategy? I don't think so.
Regardless of the fact that this game is a critical darling, there are games of equal merit on XBLA that offer as much if not more value than Braid while maintaining a cheaper price. Considering that the upcoming SSFII: HD Remix will provide infinite replay value and plenty of content for five dollars less than Braid, the issue is much larger than Jon getting not making back his budget.
Also, considering Penny Arcade has their own game on XBLA going for 1200 MS points, I can't really say I'm moved by their editorial.
I can see your points of view but on the other hand I think Braid is something new, something unique, something worthy of the money. Its got absolutely beautiful visual design, fun and truly innovative gameplay and tries to do something almost unseen before in this medium in the story department. All this in a platformer.
And it does have extra value beyond simple speedruns.
Bionic Commando: Rearmed is a remake of one of the most popular action games of all time and it looks to be one of the hottest XBLA downloads. Capcom knew they could get a higher price point for it but they opted to keep the price within established parameters. Rather than annoy consumers by breaking the ceiling, they are giving gamers a quality game for a reasonable value. (And understand, I'd personally pay 60 bucks for a Bionic Commando remake)I understand your counter argument, but both games you reference as being better values are games that are backed by a publisher with much deeper pockets than an independent, small time developer without much capital to fall on, and have an easy chance in selling in high enough numbers to recoup losses even at a lower price point, most likely.Jon's need to recoup his development costs isn't my problem as a consumer. In fact, that strategy is not only offensive but would be a logistical nightmare if applied to other products. Can you imagine a film studio releasing a smaller film at twice the ticket price to compensate for lower potential revenue? Would filmgoers be okay with such a strategy? I don't think so.
Regardless of the fact that this game is a critical darling, there are games of equal merit on XBLA that offer as much if not more value than Braid while maintaining a cheaper price. Considering that the upcoming SSFII: HD Remix will provide infinite replay value and plenty of content for five dollars less than Braid, the issue is much larger than Jon getting not making back his budget.Grammaton-Cleric
Whether or not you want to buy Braid due to its pricepoint is your perogative. If you want to view the pricing scheme as offensive in nature, that's your perogative. Just like you are looking out for your best interests as a consumer, the developer is looking out for his best interest as a developer.
Whether or not you want to buy Braid due to its pricepoint is your perogative. If you want to view the pricing scheme as offensive in nature, that's your perogative. Just like you are looking out for your best interests as a consumer, the developer is looking out for his best interest as a developer.
Skylock00
And if the developer can't find a middle ground that doesn't offend a consumer base, they will fail.
And regardless of Capcom's deep pockets, they ultimately decided to sell BC: Rearmed at a lower price (based on consumer feedback) so they seemed capable of finding that middle ground.
If this strategy works then it works but as somebody who spends a lot of money on this hobby, such pricing gives me pause. Would you be willing to pay more for a boxed title because it's independently produced? I really just can't get behind the notion, personally.
Ironically, I was getting ready to nab the game because I played the demo a bit more and saw the potential but now, after considering XBLA pricing, the developer's rationale, and that smug Penny Arcade propaganda, I think I'm going to side with Carnage and vote "NO" with my wallet and instead purchase Bionic Commando on both the XB360 and the PS3.
Understand, I respect your decision to purchase the game but if Braid and other titles priced higher than 800 sell well, the floodgates will probably open, which is a shame. For most XBLA games, Braid included, 10 dollars is more than reasonable.
And that's fine.[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]I'm understand this guy needs money to make a profit or feed himself or whatever, but it's not my fault that there's so many other choices at a cheaper price point. Skylock00
My point is simply that chances are there was going to be this aproximate set number of people who were going to buy the game no matter what, and perhaps to some degree, the pricing was done as a way to guarentee that at least with that small number of sales, the game would break even, is all.
I'm not trying to say that it's not an expensive XBLA game, because it is, I'm just exploring explanations behind the pricing.
Oh I didn't have any problem with anything you said. He's playing around with the economics of the situation and if the demand is elastic enough to support his price increase, then he's very smart for doing it. :D
And if the developer can't find a middle ground that doesn't offend a consumer base, they will fail.Depending on the circumstances, I might, actually. Then again, I'm one that tends to be a bit liberal with my gaming money, as I will tend to buy games early on, even if I don't have time to play them, purely for the sake of offering my support to a developer I know how.And regardless of Capcom's deep pockets, they ultimately decided to sell BC: Rearmed at a lower price (based on consumer feedback) so they seemed capable of finding that middle ground.
If this strategy works then it works but as somebody who spends a lot of money on this hobby, such pricing gives me pause. Would you be willing to pay more for a boxed title because it's independently produced? I really just can't get behind the notion, personally.
Grammaton-Cleric
All I will say to end off this line of discussion (since we really aren't going to make much headway either way) is that I firstly apologize if what I've said in any way lead you to feel that this game wasn't worth your money/time for the time being, and will simply restate that regardless of the price, this has been probably one of the best experiences thus far this year for me gaming wise, much like Portal was in the realm of games that were released last year.
It has easily earned all the praise it has been given.
True.
Oh I didn't have any problem with anything you said. He's playing around with the economics of the situation and if the demand is elastic enough to support his price increase, then he's very smart for doing it. :DTeufelhuhn
I personally think the circumstances behind the pricing of this game is a bit of a complex issue, because there's various sides to the matter, and at the end of the day, the only way to know whether it was really a good choice or not will be in hindsight.
Depending on the circumstances, I might, actually. Then again, I'm one that tends to be a bit liberal with my gaming money, as I will tend to buy games early on, even if I don't have time to play them, purely for the sake of offering my support to a developer I know how.
All I will say to end off this line of discussion (since we really aren't going to make much headway either way) is that I firstly apologize if what I've said in any way lead you to feel that this game wasn't worth your money/time for the time being, and will simply restate that regardless of the price, this has been probably one of the best experiences thus far this year for me gaming wise, much like Portal was in the realm of games that were released last year.
It has easily earned all the praise it has been given.
Skylock00
Well, at least you are consistent.
As to the praise Braid has earned, it seems legitimate, which is why it's such a shame a lackluster demo (which, as you mentioned, may have been unavoidable) combined with an inflated price will probably keep sales low.
Given all that, the backlash should not only be understandable, but expected. PA's comic is basically using the Kutaragi defense of saying "$600 isn't that much. Hell, you people spend $600 on room and board or airline fare for a week's vacation. Get a second job if you don't like it." Anything can be justified when framed properly, but that doesn't mean people are going to buy it.Shame-usBlackley
Agreed, and perhaps some people in here will be more open to people who think Xbox Live is a rip-off and not use arguments like 'price of a Happy Meal' or whatever. :wink:
Because it's not really about the money (or at least, not all about the money), but perception. 15, 50 or 600 bucks...it's all relative.
Anyhoo, Braid is coming to PC later in the year and I'll definitely check out the demo, this game's been getting some high praise and I love the art-styIe. The time mechanic definitely sounds intriguing as well.
As to the praise Braid has earned, it seems legitimate, which is why it's such a shame a lackluster demo (which, as you mentioned, may have been unavoidable) combined with an inflated price will probably keep sales low.Grammaton-ClericYou're probably right, but perhaps the gains of sales made by dropping the price by $5 might not have been enough to offset the loss differential to the point where he wouldn't even be breaking even.
Again, this is a decision that will reveal itself as being either in good judgement, or poor, in hindsight more than anything else.
You're probably right, but perhaps the gains of sales made by dropping the price by $5 might not have been enough to offset the loss differential to the point where he wouldn't even be breaking even.[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]As to the praise Braid has earned, it seems legitimate, which is why it's such a shame a lackluster demo (which, as you mentioned, may have been unavoidable) combined with an inflated price will probably keep sales low.Skylock00
Again, this is a decision that will reveal itself as being either in good judgement, or poor, in hindsight more than anything else.
I'm genuinely torn because I want to support quality games and like you, I often purchase games at day one prices that I sometimes don't really sink my teeth into until later. I guess what really pisses me off is the idea that I as a consumer pay more not because the developer feels the game is worth it but rather to compensate for people not buying it, which translates into a penalty for supporting their games. It's really as much a psychological issue as it is anything else.
I'm genuinely torn because I want to support quality games and like you, I often purchase games at day one prices that I sometimes don't really sink my teeth into until later. I guess what really pisses me off is the idea that I as a consumer pay more not because the developer feels the game is worth it but rather to compensate for people not buying it, which translates into a penalty for supporting their games. It's really as much a psychological issue as it is anything else.Grammaton-ClericI completely understand your feelings here, and they're definitely valid. That's sort of why I kept on my stance for so long regarding this particular line of discussion, because as much of a knee jerker the price point of something can be, I really wanted to present and explore the issue as being a bit more complicated than simply pricing just because it's status quo, or merely arguing that the game is 'worth it' from the standpoint of the price (since that's far too personal and subjective to really have any strong merit, I realize).
There are several possible outcomes depending on what goes on here, I suppose. Granted, I guess part of my want to sympathize with the developer stems from my personal interest and efforts to break into the game industry myself, but I didn't want to come off like I don't understand/sympathize with the concerns you guys have as consumers, especially regarding what sorts of precedents are set by this particular game and its pricing.
I completely understand your feelings here, and they're definitely valid. That's sort of why I kept on my stance for so long regarding this particular line of discussion, because as much of a knee jerker the price point of something can be, I really wanted to present and explore the issue as being a bit more complicated than simply pricing just because it's status quo, or merely arguing that the game is 'worth it' from the standpoint of the price (since that's far too personal and subjective to really have any strong merit, I realize).[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]I'm genuinely torn because I want to support quality games and like you, I often purchase games at day one prices that I sometimes don't really sink my teeth into until later. I guess what really pisses me off is the idea that I as a consumer pay more not because the developer feels the game is worth it but rather to compensate for people not buying it, which translates into a penalty for supporting their games. It's really as much a psychological issue as it is anything else.Skylock00
There are several possible outcomes depending on what goes on here, I suppose. Granted, I guess part of my want to sympathize with the developer stems from my personal interest and efforts to break into the game industry myself, but I didn't want to come off like I don't understand/sympathize with the concerns you guys have as consumers, especially regarding what sorts of precedents are set by this particular game and its pricing.
There's no easy solution, especially when taking into account that almost everything on XBLA has been priced under 10 dollars. However, it's also understandable that a developer can get left in the cold, especially when competing against larger profile games. Personally, I'd like to believe that pricing can be equitable across the board and that the quality will rise to the surface like so much cream but unfortunately, we know that isn't how it usually works. Crap tagged with a familiar brand can and often will outsell something smaller and better.
It's going to be interesting to see how something like Castle Crashers does at such a high price tag, especially in light of other high profile games coming in at cheaper prices.
Regardless, you've done a fine job in balancing both sides because, as you've stated, both have merit. Perhaps, for my part, I should simply support this quality endeavor and not worry so much about precedent. Hopefully, the issue will sort itself out in due time.
The precident has already been set - Puzzle Quest was (is) 1200 points, Lumines was 1200 points or more if you wanted to get everything that was in the original PSP release, and Penny Arcade has their abomination at 1600 points. I wouldn't be surprised to see Castle Crashers there either.
I'd rather give those 1200 points to Braid over the first two games I've listed, as at least it's unique and new.
I just played the trial version, and it's just brilliant! The puzzle solving makes God of War's puzzles look like kids stuff....
[spoiler] Awesome how you can put together a jigsaw puzzle and use it's platform is several ways. [/spoiler]
The only problem is how much it costs. It's pretty expensive for an XBLA game :?
Yeah, I didn't think I had to since it was the trials first levels, but you're right. I was just watching the 1up show and Johnathan Blow (designer for Braid) said that the game is all about depth and discovery. I didn't understand what he meant for a "worse" single player experience though.martialbullet
I'm not sure I understand either. I'll have to check that out. Mr. Blow has earned a lot of respect from me with this game, so it will be interesting to listen to an interview with him.
Looks like Blow's strategy paid off with Braid. The game has been downloaded over 33,000 times through Friday night, which means it has pulled in over 500k in revenue. I don't know the details on what the game cost Blow to make, but I'm sure this covers his nut (even after Microsoft's take).
Good news. It's a great game.
I came across an interesting side note about game pricing related to Bionic Commando. Namely, this Kotaku article where Capcom's explaining why the PC version of Bionic Commando Rearmed is priced higher than the console version.
Basically, the only reason why the game is priced higher on PC is because games are, supposedly, commonly more expensive in the PC Digital Distribution realm than they are in the console realm, making the act of charging PC users more for the exact same game console gamers are getting 'appropriate' for the platform.
I'm not exactly sure about this whole thing myself, but thought it was an interesting facet to bring into this discussion, since a lot of talk we've been having is on, essentially, the ethics of pricing a game appropriately for a platform.
Basically, the only reason why the game is priced higher on PC is because games are, supposedly, commonly more expensive in the PC Digital Distribution realm than they are in the console realm, making the act of charging PC users more for the exact same game console gamers are getting 'appropriate' for the platform.
Skylock00
I'm not sure I'm sold on that explanation - there are plenty of $20 downloadable PC games, yeah, but a lot of them are more substantial than the average XBLA or PSN title. There are also plenty of $10 downloadable games on Steam and other services - something like Audiosurf released at that price point and arguably has more gameplay value than Bionic Commando.
I just completed the game. My thoughts can be found in this (perhaps somewhat cryptic) blog entry.
Been playin' it for a few, lovin' it. It's definately refreshing. I don't see too much replayability in the sense that once you beat it you may not be inclined to beat it again right away. I can see coming back to it at a later date and giving it repeated play throughs however.
It's keeping me entertained, highly and interactively entertained, for 6 hours @ 15 bucks. Seems like a good deal to me. Guess I haven't, nor do I expect to be in a situation where 15 bucks requires an extreme amount of thought.
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