cancelling xbox live if passkeys are the future.

So i like to trade in games, rent, if its a game i really want i buy new.

today i traded in a few games for homefront, really got into the single player although its another COD derivative, so I try multiplayer and they expect me to pay for a passkey after reaching lv5, just because i didnt want to buy another COD rip off brand new. Dont i pay for xbox live to have this privilege?

So is this the way console games are going, the same thing that ruined PC gaming for me, cd keys and limited installs etc...

ive been on xbox live since the launch of the 360, but this practice should be stopped, if i buy something new or second hand or rent whatever, i dont expecthalf the thing to be held toransom unless i pay up.

Dont talk about developers getting no money, its the fault of these greedy publishes like EA whom have hit a new low.

I only buy my games new or I rent them, so if I don't buy it new then I won't even have it for long enough to enjoy the multiplayer side anyways.

This does suck when it comes to game rental. I mean, if you pay 3-5 bucks to rent a game, do you really want to spend another 5 dollars to play it online? They will have to figure something out or they are going to hurt their sales.

don't buy it then, let your dollar vote. if enough people stop buying the games because of removal of features then MAYBE the gaming companies will reconsider. the way i see it heading, companies will start doing episodic gaming to charge for everything. beat level 1? level 2 is only $5!!! want that sword you just found?/ its only $1.99!! that might sound crazy but i remember thinking that having all the stages in a game or the full character roster or multiplayer enabled was what you paid the full price of the game for, not to have the joy of being charged more for the actual intended experience.

They're really trying hard to turn us all into pirates, aren't they?Black_Knight_00

They're really trying hard to turn us all into pirates, aren't they?Black_Knight_00

You can't get past level 5 with a pirated copy, either. They're simply encouraging people to buy new. This practice SHOULD devalue used copies, but places like GameStop still sell them for the same amount as any other games they take in on trade (though to be fair, they still give you more in trade than they really should, too). As far as rentals, it does still allow you to play online (in the case of Homefront or other shooters from EA or THQ), it's just more of a "trial". If you're planning on playing lots of online multiplayer for these types of games, the limited access you get without the online pass is still a good way to guage if the game is worth a purchase or not.

I hate the online passes simply because as a game center operator I can't have a Homefront (for example) code for all 30 of my Xboxes unless I buy 30 copies of the game (and I don't even have that many of Halo: Reach or Call of Duty: Black Ops), or spend $10 per console to guarantee that my customers will be able to have full access when they come in to play one of my 2 copies of Homefront. Instead, I just designate 2 consoles to be the Homefront full access consoles, and try to leave them open in case somebody is looking to play the MP on that game.

I can't seriously begrudge publishers from trying to generate revenue in any way possible to keep their servers up and running. At least they're not just adding $10 to the price of the game right off the bat just so they can support their online.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]They're really trying hard to turn us all into pirates, aren't they?dog_dirt

[QUOTE="dog_dirt"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]They're really trying hard to turn us all into pirates, aren't they?reason58

Because the publisher is still supporting the game by providing servers & updates. If you buy a car with a service package but then sell the car, the person buying the car doesn't get to use the service package. Same with most warranties as they only honor them if you are the original purchaser.

The practice that I can't get behind is the withholding of content in single-player games like Mass Effect 2 or Dragon Age. There's no reason to support servers for single-player games, so there's no reason to withhold content.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]They're really trying hard to turn us all into pirates, aren't they?djsundowner

You can't get past level 5 with a pirated copy, either. They're simply encouraging people to buy new.

Yeah I think its pretty stupid, but I pretty much always buy my games new anyways.

Because the publisher is still supporting the game by providing servers & updates. If you buy a car with a service package but then sell the car, the person buying the car doesn't get to use the service package. Same with most warranties as they only honor them if you are the original purchaser.

djsundowner

This analogy is missing a large part however ... in general the online product is better with more people playing. Quicker matches, larger variety of skill levels etc. I honestly don't think Activision would have sold half as many copies of CoD if no one was online, whether all the copies were purchased new or not. Plus I always assumed that publishers wanted me to play online so I can purchase the stupid map packs.

Im glad i can get new games for the same price or lower than console used games.

[QUOTE="djsundowner"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]They're really trying hard to turn us all into pirates, aren't they?Black_Knight_00

You can't get past level 5 with a pirated copy, either. They're simply encouraging people to buy new.

I thought the whole point of online was to be able to play with your friends, not to give them your copy so they can try it for a bit. It was one thing to beat Zelda back in the day and then trade your buddy for Metroid, and, though I haven't personally traded or borrowed a game in years, the same could be said for GTAIV or Assassin's Creed, but when it comes to online multiplayer, I just tell my friends "dude, you gotta get Rainbow Six Vegas so we can do some MP".

Again, I'm not a fan of online passes, but it's not the horribly evil practice people are making it out to be. At least console gamers are still better off than PC gamers who have a game copy that's worthless to anyone else once they activate it.

when it comes to online multiplayer, I just tell my friends "dude, you gotta get Rainbow Six Vegas so we can do some MPdjsundowner

[QUOTE="djsundowner"]when it comes to online multiplayer, I just tell my friends "dude, you gotta get Rainbow Six Vegas so we can do some MPBlack_Knight_00

Arethey notmaking enough from DLC already?

God knows the amount of map packs i have bought Gears/COD etc etc, costumes for StreetFighter, extra content for fallout etc,the list goes on, i might havebought the game new used or whatever.

Who knows I could have absolutely loved Homefront, supported all the new maps etc in the future. But now i'll just sell it on and let some other sucker get shafted by EA.

Ive been playing, trading, swapping, buying, supporting games since the days of the mastersystem/NES... I have spent thousands and thousands on video game products over the years. An integral part has always been buying, selling, swapping... Now i feel this is just a kick in the teeth from these greedy companies.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="djsundowner"]when it comes to online multiplayer, I just tell my friends "dude, you gotta get Rainbow Six Vegas so we can do some MPVexx88

don't buy it then, let your dollar vote. if enough people stop buying the games because of removal of features then MAYBE the gaming companies will reconsider. the way i see it heading, companies will start doing episodic gaming to charge for everything. beat level 1? level 2 is only $5!!! want that sword you just found?/ its only $1.99!! that might sound crazy but i remember thinking that having all the stages in a game or the full character roster or multiplayer enabled was what you paid the full price of the game for, not to have the joy of being charged more for the actual intended experience.

z4twenny

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]They're really trying hard to turn us all into pirates, aren't they?dog_dirt

Whatever DD fanboys & publishers/developers like it or not, one of the big reasons why the gaming industry is still alive & is continuing to evolve is because of the used gaming market itself.

Posters should heed this advice. It's the only way that devs and publishers will listen. Don't pay for Xbox Live, don't pay for DLC, don't pay for passkeys and whatever else they're trying to sell you. If enough people did this instead of blindly handing schoolyard bullies their lunch money, they would stop this nickel and dime crap and go back to being honest.Bigboi500

I agree with you about these things, except for Xbox Live. They need the money for servers being updated & such. That's why Sony is now having PSN+ as the first step into charging for online play (even though they're really not right now).

Posters should heed this advice. It's the only way that devs and publishers will listen. Don't pay for Xbox Live, don't pay for DLC, don't pay for passkeys and whatever else they're trying to sell you. If enough people did this instead of blindly handing schoolyard bullies their lunch money, they would stop this nickel and dime crap and go back to being honest.

Bigboi500

[QUOTE="djsundowner"]when it comes to online multiplayer, I just tell my friends "dude, you gotta get Rainbow Six Vegas so we can do some MPBlack_Knight_00

Except that the multiplayer isn't locked; it's just limited (unless you're looking at EA Sports games or UFC, in which case it's all online, which is ridiculous). I played Battlefield: Bad Company 2 for months without an online pass and enjoyed it immensely. After playing Homefront's multiplayer without the pass, I determined that it's pretty fun.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="djsundowner"]when it comes to online multiplayer, I just tell my friends "dude, you gotta get Rainbow Six Vegas so we can do some MPdjsundowner

Except that the multiplayer isn't locked; it's just limited (unless you're looking at EA Sports games or UFC, in which case it's all online, which is ridiculous). I played Battlefield: Bad Company 2 for months without an online pass and enjoyed it immensely. After playing Homefront's multiplayer without the pass, I determined that it's pretty fun.

[QUOTE="djsundowner"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] "Ah, cool. Is there a multiplayer demo? Can I borrow your copy to try it before buying?" Nope, single user only :/Black_Knight_00

Except that the multiplayer isn't locked; it's just limited (unless you're looking at EA Sports games or UFC, in which case it's all online, which is ridiculous). I played Battlefield: Bad Company 2 for months without an online pass and enjoyed it immensely. After playing Homefront's multiplayer without the pass, I determined that it's pretty fun.

Actually, Medal of Honor is VIP also (which is really semantics since it's still denying you access to certain ON DISC content), but I understand what you're saying about the others (forgot that Dead Space 2 was like that). Surprisingly Crysis 2, an EA published game, does not have any VIP or online code (unless you count the "limited edition" content). It could be argued that Dead Space 2's online multiplayer is just added crap that has no legs, but then again there seems to be a few people who really enjoy it.

Actually, now that I think about it, EA also makes you have to code to play Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit online, too (which sucks because that game is fun in MP). I still don't really have a problem with them limiting access (to a point), but I do hate the total inability to play online without the code.

XBox Live has nothing to do with pass keys or VIP codes.Theyre on the PS3 and PC for these games as well.

[QUOTE="dog_dirt"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]They're really trying hard to turn us all into pirates, aren't they?reason58

That also doesn't make any sense because by the time the game reaches the retail shelves, the dev/publishers have already gotten their money. The only way that a dev/publisher would lose money is if demand for used copies becomes greater than a demand for new shipments of the game to retailers.

I get the feeling that a lot of people on these forums don't really understand how supply chains work. When you buy a game from Gamestop, new or used, the only people that get your money is Gamestop.

I realise that it's not really to do with XBOX live, it's the same situation with PS3, I pay for XBOX live for the fast servers, features and updates which i'm satisfied with, I am thinking of cancelling because I am not willing to pay these passkeys etc on top of all the DLC (I dont blindly buy DLC but if it's something i'm interested in I usually get it).

For people who say well buy new then, I can't afford to buy every game new, if it's a game i'm really looking forward to (Gears3 ETC) I will pre-order, no probs) but I also enjoy trading, swapping, renting etc) but now I am to be restricted to what parts I can play at the publishers whim?

Even if i bought it new my family and friends can't play certain features on their account without paying even more £$£$£ even though I paid full whack (which isnt cheap for a new game).

Also I pay for the game new but now it is instantly devalued because of this feature if (that in no way encourages me to pay fullprice for a game if it has these passkeys).

* I realise Homefront is by THQ not EA, but it seems almost all EA games have these passkeys nowadays, and if something isnt done they will get more restrictive every game, we we will reach the point where we will have say the first level to play then we have to pay $£$£$£ to open up each additional level etc.

That also doesn't make any sense because by the time the game reaches the retail shelves, the dev/publishers have already gotten their money. The only way that a dev/publisher would lose money is if demand for used copies becomes greater than a demand for new shipments of the game to retailers.I get the feeling that a lot of people on these forums don't really understand how supply chains work. When you buy a game from Gamestop, new or used, the only people that get your money is Gamestop.Gamefan1986

Sure, but more used games sold mean more new games left unsold on the shelves, leading to less conspicuous orders from retailers to publishers, leading to less profit.. The used market IS hurting their business, but it's nothing but an inevitable response to the shamelessly high prices they ask you to pay for new gamesBlack_Knight_00

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Sure, but more used games sold mean more new games left unsold on the shelves, leading to less conspicuous orders from retailers to publishers, leading to less profit.. The used market IS hurting their business, but it's nothing but an inevitable response to the shamelessly high prices they ask you to pay for new gamesreason58

4. Lastly, this assumes that the companies have some special right to make money off of other people's transactions. Ford doesn't make money when I sell my used car. Ikea doesn't get a cut when I sell my chair. Why should game companies get special treatment?reason58

Online, online, online! Ford still makes money off the car long after it rolls off the assembly line, no matter how many times it changes hands, because they make many of the parts needed to maintain it. Publishers put out DLC, which is something they can earn money on from anyone who currently possesses a copy, but it's not needed to continue to play the game. Meanwhile, they still have to support the servers people need to play online. I think it's complete BS when EA withholds quests in single-player games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, but I kinda-sorta understand them wanting to get money to keep their servers going for multiplayer stuff (the used market theoretically extends the life of the online community). Do they need ten bucks from every person beyond the first owner? Probably not. I can't imagine server farms require that much time and money to maintain, but they may need something.

I do agree with those who said that say if the game is good enough people will buy the game and keep it and buy up any half-baked, over-priced, garbage DLC that comes out for it.

I'm getting tired of trying to play Devil's Advocate on this one, though. I still say you should just buy new since it becomes a moot point. Gamestop's still going to give you the same amount in trade whether the code's been used or not, and they're still going to sell it for more than it's worth.

If I buy a used game for $19.99 or less, I don't mind paying a bit more for online if it's something I really want. If I buy a used game at $54.99, thanks but no thanks.

Is it really worth saving the $5 when you could just buy it new?

Actions speak louder than words obviously. It's just funny how some people can pis and moan about greedy corporations when in fact if it wasn't for this lucrative aspect in the first place, you wouldn't have games. Why don't we just all become socialists because that's what it's looking like. You can't tell someone else what's fair and what isn't if you're not demonstrating the same mentality. I bet if you were to apply this so called principle to other aspects of life, you'd really see who's getting shafted.JunkTrap

Socialists - People that won't buy my crap.

:roll:

So... is the used games market based on a loophole in a law or something? You'd think they'd crack down on it like piracy. Disclaimers clearly say you're not supposed to rent, reproduce etc... but if it's done with the consent of the publishers, then **** them all to hell for this passkey BS.TentacleMayor

People blame the publishes, but do not forget who forced the publishers into making such moves.

Publishers were being pushed to the wall because of illegal downloads on both PC, XBox, and now the PS3. This forced publishers to take measures to ensure people actually buy their products. Before, it was incredibly easy to just burn a game and play all the features for free on the XBox. This passkey is simple a way to counter illegal downloads for consoles. However, keep in mind that millions of people are still playing XBox single-player games for free every day because of illegal downloads.

While you might complain you paid $50 on a used game, the companies who publish these games lose billions a year to illegal downloads on all platforms.

Next time, stop being cheap and pay the extra $5 for a new copy.

The real crime here is how Microsoft keeps charging people for an online service that should be free.

Do you have any proof to back up your claim that piracy is costing the game industry billions of dollars a year in lost sales? Keep in mind that video games are more profitable now then at any point in their history.reason58

Information frome ONE site. These are the top 11 games with their total downloads. Keep in mind this is a SMALL site, there are much larger sites out there.To give you an idea how small this website is compared to a larger one. The larger website has12,889 downloads for Fallout:NV. Thats an estimate of $773,340 on one game alone. However, the larger site was much harder to derive this information. So I used the small site since it was much easier to extract the data. Keep in mind that some of these games are older than one year, but its impossible to tell when they were downloaded. I also didn't feel like searching for each individual game that was released within the past 12 months. But you should get an idea.

1.Fallout 3-7,722

2.COD:MW2-6,947

3.Dragon Age-6,945

4.COD:WAW-5,714

5.ME2-5,480

6.Sims3-5,361

7.Crysis-5,326

8.Batman Arkahm Asylum-5,275

9.Resident Evil 5-4,917

10.AC2-4,774

11.COD:BO-4,680

This is 63,141 downloads and an estimate of $3,788,460. Thats $3.7M on just the top 11 games from a very very small private site. If you want to compare to a larger site, COD:BO alone has74,533 downloads ($4,471,980). So between the two sites, Activision lost $4,752,780 on Black Ops. If you were a publisher, you would go to extreme measurements to try and get some of that money considering you're losing a lot of money per year.

If anyone is interested, Lego Star Wars II: Original Trilogy is the most downloaded game of all-time on the largest site with386,225 downloads ($23,173,500).

Keep in mind that there are dozens of private sites that all track their own download statistics and their downloads are unique to themselves. Also, there are a lot of public sites but they do not have good statistics when it comes to downloads. Basically, piracy is definitely taking billions away from the gaming industry.

edit: dont know why my text turned blue :)

And you believe that every one of those downloads was a lost sale? Additionally, you believe that none of those downloads actually created a new customer?

Actions speak louder than words obviously. It's just funny how some people can pis and moan about greedy corporations when in fact if it wasn't for this lucrative aspect in the first place, you wouldn't have games.JunkTrap

Even if only 10% of them were lost sales, thats still $100M in lost sales that publishers will definitely chase. Lets low-ball it here, even if we assume the downloads only add up to $500M and only 10% were lost sales, you really think publishers won't try to gain some of that $50M in sales?

I believe some games are hurt more than others. With Black Ops, I would only say 5-10% of the downloads were lost sales because most people want the game for its multiplayer which is not available from pirate copies. However, games that are purely single-player such as Fallout, Mass Effect, or Dragon Age would probably lose well over 50,60,70, maybe 80% of their sales to downloads simply because the downloader can get the very same product and content as the paid consumer.

Lets face the facts. It's the people who forced publishers to take extra measurements to ensure people buy their products. From connecting online for a single player game to passkeys.. they are trying to find a way to get some of those lost sales back.

Invasive measures such as these also cost them quite a bit as well. I do not buy any movies simply because of the 10+ minutes of unskippable ads, FBI warnings, promotions for blu ray, etc. Same thing with a lot of computer games. The pirated version is simply a superior product.

The more you tighten your grip, tenz01, the more customers will slip through your fingers.