Classic rpg advice - xenogears

To each their own I guess. I personally find Xenogears to be the best RPG next to Planescape Torment and Vagrant Story.

While I don't think I'd compare Xenogears to Torment, Xenogears is for me probably the best JRPG I've experienced. Lunar beats it out on pure sentimental value, but nothing else in the JRPG genre comes close to the Xenogears storyline.

I personally don't know how you could endure FFVI (a game that I always was too bored with to finish, even back in the SNES days when JRPGs were few) and have problems finishing Xenogears. As the above poster said, to each his own, I guess. Admittedly, XG starts off very slow and takes a bit of time to build any sense for what is going on, but it's also a game that I hit 100 hours on even on my second playthrough, so patience is both necessary and worthwhile.

It's not so much the second half of the game as the second disc that is the problem. They pretty much race through things to wrap everything up, but I remember that being more like a quarter of the game at most.

So I recently discovered that RPGs are badass and have been playing the classics. So far I've beaten final fantasy 6 and 7 (loved them both) and I'm half way through xenogears (ethos digsite). I gotta say, xenogears is so effing boring. I was into the whole deathblow and gears thing at first, but now it's just getting really emo and really old. Should I abandon this game? Does it start getting really badass? I've read the second half is boring compared to the first half, if this is true I gotta stop now. I was thinking about getting either final fantasy 9 or crisis core instead of beating xenogears. Given that I like 6 and 7, which one would I enjoy more? I think I'd like the turned base combat of 9, but the summons in crisis core look epic as F. SenorPickle

I think you should quit. The game is focused on the story, mostly, and not on the action, and the 2nd disk is like a giant book. And ofcourse those damn random encounters are horrible, they used to piss me off so damn bad.

But Xenogears just blew my mind. It's story is factually one of the greatest, deepest and most complex ever created. Why? It touches on Buddhism, Catholicism and most strongly on Judaism. The story touches on so many subjects and handles them all extremely well from religious belief to the depths of psychoanalysis.From reincarnation, to Noah's Ark, nothing is taboo, and the story just twists reality for it's own purpose. It is the brilliance of how intricately the world and history of Xenogears has been designed that makes it so special even compared to newer and far better looking games.

And i played this **** in 2008. Only Planescape can even begin to compare to its story.

To bad the japanese to english translation is mediocre, and the voice acting is just bad. Otherwise this game would have ben a 10/10.

To each their own I guess. I personally find Xenogears to be the best RPG next to Planescape Torment and Vagrant Story.

jasonharris48

I would definitely put Xenogears in my top ten, since it was one of the more memorable highlights of the Playstation RPG era.

Boring and emo? Perhaps, but the more time you spend with that game, the more complex and intriguing the story turns out to be. As some of the other posters mentioned, this game delves on plenty of subjects, definitely heavy on religion. It's a great story, one that also had its share of twists and turns the first time through. It was an amazing experience and I won't forget it! I also loved the combat engine...it was really cool to play around with the different button combinations, eager to discover what they can pull off over time and see what happens, you know? One more great aspect that I'll mention - the surperb soundtrack that was made by Yasunori Mitsuda...absolutely fantastic!

Like all the other posters said above me, to each their own, but by quitting, you're missing out on a solid role-playing game!

I thought Xenogears was one of the most overrated games in history. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either...a solid 7/10 It is similar to the love FF7 gets. The only difference is that FF7 did a great deal for the genre (despite not being a great game by today's standards...IMO). There are countless RPG's that I consider to be far better from both the PS1 and PS2 erarawsavon

Everything presented in FFVII was done better in Xenogears.

jasonharris48

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]I thought Xenogears was one of the most overrated games in history. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either...a solid 7/10 It is similar to the love FF7 gets. The only difference is that FF7 did a great deal for the genre (despite not being a great game by today's standards...IMO). There are countless RPG's that I consider to be far better from both the PS1 and PS2 erajasonharris48

If you're not getting into the storyline and characters at this point, you're probably not going to get anything out of Xenogears. The gameplay isn't going to improve, and is going to mostly disappear the farther you go. The game is about a 5 on the gameplay scale, and a 20 on the story and music scale, which averages out to my favorite game of all time. You have to care almost exclusively about story and atmosphere to "get" Xenogears. It's too bad you're not enjoying it, because it's unrivaled storywise.

If you think so, then you are certainly entitles to your opinion. But I believe FF7 did everything bigger and better and was the catalyst for a major change in the genre. Don't get wrong though...I would not play either again (as I think the stories are average at best and the gameplay does not hold up) Post FF7, rpg's were not looked at in the same light by fans and were not treated the same by developers. The same can not be said of Xenogearsjasonharris48

That was the biggest problem that I had with Final Fantasy VII. As great as Final Fantasy VII was (not the best FF, by the way), no one really cared much for the RPG genre back then, even when there was a slew of excellent RPGs to check out back in the day, from the older Final Fantasy or Phantasy Star titles to Chrono Trigger or series like Breath Of Fire or Lufia, to name a few off the top of my head. Then when Final Fantasy VII came out, everyone was like "Oh my god! This is how RPGs should be made! This is awesome! Final Fantasy VII is the first RPG we played!" etc etc. I think that so many gamers and developers were so ignorant in that genre that they didn't pay much attention to it until Final Fantasy VII was released. Now everyone's acting like RPGs have been awesome since FFVII, which is really a shame. Nothing against FFVII, but it is overrated and overhyped to death.

If by "emo" you mean there exists character development, then yes, maybe you should quit.

Xenogears... ahh what fond memories and frustration that game brought. Some of the bosses seemed unbeatable. The game is truly amazing in terms of storyline, depth, graphics for its time and gameplay. Just think of how much better it could've been were they not forced to release it before completion. A large chunk of the story is told via cut scene and stills because the company felt it was taking too long and pushed them to release the game. Thats why in some places you'll find areas you can explore with nothing going on, no enemies or npcs. One place in particular triggers a cut scene.

Look up some of the xenogears scenes from youtube theres a ton of great sequences.

Like when they try to crash the sand submarine on ID and it picks the whole thing up and tosses it on Bart lol... or ID goes berserk and takes out the entire floating city.

I heard something about that, in regards to the second disc. The second disc was ultimately a disappointment. It was rushed and you weren't able to re-visit any of the towns or dungeons. You could only go from one place to the next and could do little about it, which was unfortunate. But the story was good enough to keep me interested until the very end.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

If you think so, then you are certainly entitles to your opinion. But I believe FF7 did everything bigger and better and was the catalyst for a major change in the genre. Don't get wrong though...I would not play either again (as I think the stories are average at best and the gameplay does not hold up) Post FF7, rpg's were not looked at in the same light by fans and were not treated the same by developers. The same can not be said of XenogearsMetamania

That was the biggest problem that I had with Final Fantasy VII. As great as Final Fantasy VII was (not the best FF, by the way), no one really cared much for the RPG genre back then, even when there was a slew of excellent RPGs to check out back in the day, from the older Final Fantasy or Phantasy Star titles to Chrono Trigger or series like Breath Of Fire or Lufia, to name a few off the top of my head. Then when Final Fantasy VII came out, everyone was like "Oh my god! This is how RPGs should be made! This is awesome! Final Fantasy VII is the first RPG we played!" etc etc. I think that so many gamers and developers were so ignorant in that genre that they didn't pay much attention to it until Final Fantasy VII was released. Now everyone's acting like RPGs have been awesome since FFVII, which is really a shame. Nothing against FFVII, but it is overrated and overhyped to death.

(as I think the stories are average at best and the gameplay does not hold up)rawsavon

How can the story be average wen in dwells deep into the aspecs of psychoanalysis, and even relies heavily on some of the principles of the human mind as theorized by some of the key figures of psychology, such as Sigmund Freud, Jacques Lacan and Carl Gustav Jung? Even the principles of Confucianism have a direct relation to the story of Xenogears. You can even make a good deal of philosophical theories regarding the story.

I mean, it's not about a opinion here.. there is no story created in the video game realm that has such a heavy reliance on these aspecs.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

If you think so, then you are certainly entitles to your opinion. But I believe FF7 did everything bigger and better and was the catalyst for a major change in the genre. Don't get wrong though...I would not play either again (as I think the stories are average at best and the gameplay does not hold up) Post FF7, rpg's were not looked at in the same light by fans and were not treated the same by developers. The same can not be said of Xenogearsrawsavon

That was the biggest problem that I had with Final Fantasy VII. As great as Final Fantasy VII was (not the best FF, by the way), no one really cared much for the RPG genre back then, even when there was a slew of excellent RPGs to check out back in the day, from the older Final Fantasy or Phantasy Star titles to Chrono Trigger or series like Breath Of Fire or Lufia, to name a few off the top of my head. Then when Final Fantasy VII came out, everyone was like "Oh my god! This is how RPGs should be made! This is awesome! Final Fantasy VII is the first RPG we played!" etc etc. I think that so many gamers and developers were so ignorant in that genre that they didn't pay much attention to it until Final Fantasy VII was released. Now everyone's acting like RPGs have been awesome since FFVII, which is really a shame. Nothing against FFVII, but it is overrated and overhyped to death.

What part of my quote did you fix? I'm just curious.

I don't know about all the great things FF7 did for the genre, to be honest. Just because it pushed the Playstation One to its limits or played a huge role in reviving everyone's interest in the role-playing genre still doesn't make FF7 the best RPG out there. Like you said, you prefer the older role-playing games. I agree with you. It's what I grew up with playing and some of the RPGs that came out before and after Final Fantasy VII...some of them were amazing (Xenogears), others weren't (Chrono Cross, but that's because I excpected so much more out of it and turned out to be disappointing, at least for me).

[QUOTE="rawsavon"](as I think the stories are average at best and the gameplay does not hold up)Lucianu

How can the story be average wen in dwells deep into the aspecs of psychoanalysis, and even relies heavily on some of the principles of the human mind as theorized by some of the key figures of psychology, such as Sigmund Freud, Jacques Lacan and Carl Gustav Jung? Even the principles of Confucianism have a direct relation to the story of Xenogears. You can even make a good deal of philosophical theories regarding the story.

I mean, it's not about a opinion here.. there is no story created in the video game realm that has such a heavy reliance on these aspecs.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Metamania"]

That was the biggest problem that I had with Final Fantasy VII. As great as Final Fantasy VII was (not the best FF, by the way), no one really cared much for the RPG genre back then, even when there was a slew of excellent RPGs to check out back in the day, from the older Final Fantasy or Phantasy Star titles to Chrono Trigger or series like Breath Of Fire or Lufia, to name a few off the top of my head. Then when Final Fantasy VII came out, everyone was like "Oh my god! This is how RPGs should be made! This is awesome! Final Fantasy VII is the first RPG we played!" etc etc. I think that so many gamers and developers were so ignorant in that genre that they didn't pay much attention to it until Final Fantasy VII was released. Now everyone's acting like RPGs have been awesome since FFVII, which is really a shame. Nothing against FFVII, but it is overrated and overhyped to death.

Metamania

What part of my quote did you fix? I'm just curious.

I don't know about all the great things FF7 did for the genre, to be honest. Just because it pushed the Playstation One to its limits or played a huge role in reviving everyone's interest in the role-playing genre still doesn't make FF7 the best RPG out there. Like you said, you prefer the older role-playing games. I agree with you. It's what I grew up with playing and some of the RPGs that came out before and after Final Fantasy VII...some of them were amazing (Xenogears), others weren't (Chrono Cross, but that's because I excpected so much more out of it and turned out to be disappointing, at least for me).

Xenogears did everything that FFVII did but better?? What about summons, they completely break the boring combat that xenogears has. What about materia and magic in FF? The magic in xenogears is completely useless and might as well have been left out all together. Also you are all right, the story is great....if you're 12 years old and have read nothing but Harry Potter. It's got the depth of a Goosebumps novel. I honestly think that the high opinion of this game is a mixture of timing and nostalgia. If you played the game in middle school, it makes sense that it would blow your mind, but in your 20s it just seems like every other anime that's ever existed. SenorPickle

I played the game this year and I'm 18. So much for generalizations :|

If you don't like the game, go get Crisis Core (beautiful story) or FF 9 (the best in the series).

I heard something about that, in regards to the second disc. The second disc was ultimately a disappointment. It was rushed and you weren't able to re-visit any of the towns or dungeons. You could only go from one place to the next and could do little about it, which was unfortunate. But the story was good enough to keep me interested until the very end.

Metamania

I recall reading the funds for the game was shifted to FF 8 (a craptastic game...). Shame, I really loved how the first disc played :(

I think you should quit. The game is focused on the story, mostly, and not on the action, and the 2nd disk is like a giant book. And ofcourse those damn random encounters are horrible, they used to piss me off so damn bad.

Lucianu

The 2nd disc was (atleast to me) normal except it had those moments where a slideshow plays. It was obviously rushed but nowhere near a giant book. I completed the second disc far quicker than I did the first disc.

As for the random encounters, I must have become immune to them :P Too many RPGs man :)

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

I heard something about that, in regards to the second disc. The second disc was ultimately a disappointment. It was rushed and you weren't able to re-visit any of the towns or dungeons. You could only go from one place to the next and could do little about it, which was unfortunate. But the story was good enough to keep me interested until the very end.

fend_oblivion

I recall reading the funds for the game was shifted to FF 8 (a craptastic game...). Shame, I really loved how the first disc played :(

FF8 is definitely the first or second worst Final Fantasy in its franchise history. It was an abomination overall.

xenogears IS the best rpg made, the problem is as always is not streamlined enough (compared to final fantasy 7 + the awesome cutscenes for that time) final fantasy 7 had bigger budget and bigger marketing campaign, not to count many of us who played snes final fantasies and would have sold our moms to see a final fantasy in 3d, while xenogears was a new IP with a complex story, full of amazing details, and is still one of the best stories ever made.

And FF8 was also a good game, is just fanboys usually want more of the same, or cry when they dont like what they get, and FF usually changes with each new FF, i hated the draw system though.

[QUOTE="SenorPickle"]Xenogears did everything that FFVII did but better?? What about summons, they completely break the boring combat that xenogears has. What about materia and magic in FF? The magic in xenogears is completely useless and might as well have been left out all together. Also you are all right, the story is great....if you're 12 years old and have read nothing but Harry Potter. It's got the depth of a Goosebumps novel. I honestly think that the high opinion of this game is a mixture of timing and nostalgia. If you played the game in middle school, it makes sense that it would blow your mind, but in your 20s it just seems like every other anime that's ever existed. fend_oblivion

I played the game this year and I'm 18. So much for generalizations :|

If you don't like the game, go get Crisis Core (beautiful story) or FF 9 (the best in the series).

And FF8 was also a good game, is just fanboys usually want more of the same, or cry when they dont like what they get, and FF usually changes with each new FF, i hated the draw system though.

Krelian-co

Yes, FF changes with each new game. But that doesn't make it an excellent Final Fantasy. And no, I didn't want more of the same, I wanted a good RPG that had the right elements that was enough to justify it as such and Final Fantasy VIII was a horrible game. The draw system was a waste of time, the storyline wasn't something good to latch on to and neither were the characters at all. I don't mind that some people love Final Fantasy VIII - more power to them. I guess, in some way, they loved it. The only good thing that I enjoyed about FFVIII was its soundtrack, but beyond that, it is such a bad FF.

I have to agree with TC on this. Xenogears is mostly overrated and overhyped. I have read the story, and it is indeed something to behold, but as a game it falls flat on its face.

I never got this game back during the PSOne's lifetime (then again, I never got any RPGs during that time), and I can only attribute the amount of praise it gets as nostalgia and focused on plot. Few people praise gameplay, I've noticed, and with good reason: it blows. I came into this game only a few months ago expecting an experience that would blow me away, that would redefine RPGs for me. I couldn't get past the 20 hour mark.

I recommend Final Fantasy IX over Crisis Core, TC. You may badmouth the game's light story all you want (to those praising Xenogears), but at least FF9 had engaging gameplay, the number one requirement in a game. Xenogears could've been a great book, but it will never be a great game.

I have to agree with TC on this. Xenogears is mostly overrated and overhyped. I have read the story, and it is indeed something to behold, but as a game it falls flat on its face.

I never got this game back during the PSOne's lifetime (then again, I never got any RPGs during that time), and I can only attribute the amount of praise it gets as nostalgia and focused on plot. Few people praise gameplay, I've noticed, and with good reason: it blows. I came into this game only a few months ago expecting an experience that would blow me away, that would redefine RPGs for me. I couldn't get past the 20 hour mark.

I recommend Final Fantasy IX over Crisis Core, TC. You may badmouth the game's light story all you want (to those praising Xenogears), but at least FF9 had engaging gameplay, the number one requirement in a game. Xenogears could've been a great book, but it will never be a great game.

mmmwksil

well its always a matter of opinion,for me even if its a good game xenogears > ff 9, and you were late to play it, even i find the game very outdated for todays standards.

I love both Xenogears and FFVIII. :o

[QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

[QUOTE="SenorPickle"]Xenogears did everything that FFVII did but better?? What about summons, they completely break the boring combat that xenogears has. What about materia and magic in FF? The magic in xenogears is completely useless and might as well have been left out all together. Also you are all right, the story is great....if you're 12 years old and have read nothing but Harry Potter. It's got the depth of a Goosebumps novel. I honestly think that the high opinion of this game is a mixture of timing and nostalgia. If you played the game in middle school, it makes sense that it would blow your mind, but in your 20s it just seems like every other anime that's ever existed. SenorPickle

I played the game this year and I'm 18. So much for generalizations :|

If you don't like the game, go get Crisis Core (beautiful story) or FF 9 (the best in the series).

It seems like you've made up your mind on Xenogears. If so, why even make a thread about it? Even if I was in my 20s and played Xenogears, I would still say it is a great RPG. Also, you're judging the story when you are still in the Ethos dig site. Play the game to its entirety before you even make such claims that the story is bad. The Ethos dig site is not even the true beginning of the story.

[QUOTE="SenorPickle"][QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

I played the game this year and I'm 18. So much for generalizations :|

If you don't like the game, go get Crisis Core (beautiful story) or FF 9 (the best in the series).

fend_oblivion

It seems like you've made up your mind on Xenogears. If so, why even make a thread about it? Even if I was in my 20s and played Xenogears, I would still say it is a great RPG. Also, you're judging the story when you are still in the Ethos dig site. Play the game to its entirety before you even make such claims that the story is bad. The Ethos dig site is not even the true beginning of the story.

I agree. The TC should play through the entire game before judging it harshly.

I have to agree with TC on this. Xenogears is mostly overrated and overhyped. I have read the story, and it is indeed something to behold, but as a game it falls flat on its face.

I never got this game back during the PSOne's lifetime (then again, I never got any RPGs during that time), and I can only attribute the amount of praise it gets as nostalgia and focused on plot. Few people praise gameplay, I've noticed, and with good reason: it blows. I came into this game only a few months ago expecting an experience that would blow me away, that would redefine RPGs for me. I couldn't get past the 20 hour mark.

I recommend Final Fantasy IX over Crisis Core, TC. You may badmouth the game's light story all you want (to those praising Xenogears), but at least FF9 had engaging gameplay, the number one requirement in a game. Xenogears could've been a great book, but it will never be a great game.

mmmwksil

Its a great game to me, i loved the refreshing combo based gameplay, which was a breath of fresh air from the horribly over-used simple turn-based combat in the entire FF series. I dislike the majority of JRPGs with a passion, i think they should cease to exist since the majority have ben using the blueprint set by Ultima/Dragon Quest and have barely evolved from "saving X from X evil". Horribly cliched stories, with barely any charm that bore me to tears.

But Xenogears (and Chrono Trigger with its 13 different endings) blew my expectations away (which were low considering i played them in 2008/2009), and i'll always regard them as the absolute apogee of japanese role playing games ever created, far superior to the mediocrity that is the FF series (which should have died with XII), and frankly far superior to every single JRPG ever created.

So i guess to each their own, it would ofcourse be foolish to think that any game would have universal appealness. (with the exception of Tetris, i think that game is universal)

I am going to be honest, I thought the psychology crap was pretty damn awful. I realize that my perspective will be different than most people's (seeing as how I have a degree in psychology). It is similar to when I see a movie on the subject (like when they make a movie where someone has dissociative identity disorder [which they will call multiple personality disorder]. They usually butcher the subject area so badly that it ruins the movie for me. That was the case in this game...it was awful. Also, it is 100% opinionrawsavon

Well i thought they were great, but if your perspective is as such, then what would a story need to do to entertain or maybe be praise worthy for you? I'm curious, what story in the video game realm do you hold in high regards?

But if you might mention that Planescape is mediocre, quit gaming, and read books.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]I am going to be honest, I thought the psychology crap was pretty damn awful. I realize that my perspective will be different than most people's (seeing as how I have a degree in psychology). It is similar to when I see a movie on the subject (like when they make a movie where someone has dissociative identity disorder [which they will call multiple personality disorder]. They usually butcher the subject area so badly that it ruins the movie for me. That was the case in this game...it was awful. Also, it is 100% opinionLucianu

Well i thought they were great, but if your perspective is as such, then what would a story need to do to entertain or maybe be praise worthy for you? I'm curious, what story in the video game realm do you hold in high regards?

But if you might mention that Planescape is mediocre, quit gaming, and read books.

I have enjoyed quite a few stories over the years, but different games/genres have different requirements from me. Could I be any more vague???...sorry.

I guess it would be easiest to give stories that I enjoyed from RPG's:
Shadow Hearts 1 and 2 (top of my list)
Lunar EB (though it is hard to separate the nostalgia factor here for me)
Suikoden 2, 3, 5
FF Tactics
Arc the Lad 2
Grandia (once you get past the first 2 hours of 'meh')
Legacy of Kain

Ignorance is bliss...and all that jazz.

So if there is a science heavy story involving a lot of stuff I know jacks*** about, then they can pretty much do what they want to with the subject matter. BUt if it is something I know about, then they need to present it in a way that is at least partially accurate..if that makes sense.

I have enjoyed quite a few stories over the years, but different games/genres have different requirements from me. Could I be any more vague???...sorry.

I guess it would be easiest to give stories that I enjoyed from RPG's:
Shadow Hearts 1 and 2 (top of my list)
Lunar EB (though it is hard to separate the nostalgia factor here for me)
Suikoden 2, 3, 5
FF Tactics
Arc the Lad 2
Grandia (once you get past the first 2 hours of 'meh')
Legacy of Kain

rawsavon

Cool, cool, it makes perfect sense. And yeah, ignorance is a bliss sometimes wen you're trying to enjoy something.. better not be knowledgeble in the details, because if the story messes that up it'll stick out like a sore thumb, you know..

Shadow Hearts 1 and 2 (top of my list)

rawsavon

Isn't Mitsuda-san responsible for the music in the series? I thought the Judgement Ring idea thing was neat but I don't know, the art syl e didn't quite do it for me from my impressions by watching video reviews. Is it really worth playing? :)

Some RPGs like SMT III : Nocturne might not have detailed stories, but hot damn, the concept is amazing. I'd love to see the game remade with a fully realized universe with a ton of character development and details :D

I love both Xenogears and FFVIII. :o

hakanakumono

I tried so hard to like FF 8 but that damn Triple Triad killed it for me. The Junction and draw system were annoying but Triple Triad was the real killer. Once the other rules start to come in place and spreads, it becomes impossible to stand (well, atleast for me...).

I played FF 8 mainly because of Faye Wong's "Eyes on Me" song. I loved the song so much, I even learned to play it on the guitar. I was grinning silly when Laguna met the piano player ;)

I guess it would be easiest to give stories that I enjoyed from RPG's:
Shadow Hearts 1 and 2 (top of my list)
Lunar EB (though it is hard to separate the nostalgia factor here for me)
Suikoden 2, 3, 5
FF Tactics
Arc the Lad 2
Grandia (once you get past the first 2 hours of 'meh')
Legacy of Kain

rawsavon

Suikoden 1 and 2 were the pinnacle of the series. Everything else after that fell flat.

Lunar was fantastic, but I remember how hard the battles turned out to be. You had to grind a lot to get somewhere and that was a process that was not easy. But I do remember Silver Star Story Complete on PS1 and man, Working Designs knocked it out of the ballpark with thei work on the translation. A lot of laugh-out loud funny moments.

FF Tactics? I wouldn't call it fully an RPG, but a strategy/RPG instead. Fantastic soundtrack and the story was top-notch. Too bad the translation wasn't outstanding on the PS1 version, but I hear that they fixed that on the PSP version.

Shadow Hearts 1 and 2 are two games I wish I could have played back then. Heard so many graet things about both games.

Finally, Legacy Of Kain? It has RPG elements, to be sure, but I see it more as an action/adventure game with a brillant story and narrative. It's also a major plus when you have top-notch actors deliver their roles superably with the characters they played.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

Shadow Hearts 1 and 2 (top of my list)

fend_oblivion

Isn't Mitsuda-san responsible for the music in the series? I thought the Judgement Ring idea thing was neat but I don't know, the art syl e didn't quite do it for me from my impressions by watching video reviews. Is it really worth playing? :)

Some RPGs like SMT III : Nocturne might not have detailed stories, but hot damn, the concept is amazing. I'd love to see the game remade with a fully realized universe with a ton of character development and details :D

Metamania

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

I have to agree with TC on this. Xenogears is mostly overrated and overhyped. I have read the story, and it is indeed something to behold, but as a game it falls flat on its face.

I never got this game back during the PSOne's lifetime (then again, I never got any RPGs during that time), and I can only attribute the amount of praise it gets as nostalgia and focused on plot. Few people praise gameplay, I've noticed, and with good reason: it blows. I came into this game only a few months ago expecting an experience that would blow me away, that would redefine RPGs for me. I couldn't get past the 20 hour mark.

I recommend Final Fantasy IX over Crisis Core, TC. You may badmouth the game's light story all you want (to those praising Xenogears), but at least FF9 had engaging gameplay, the number one requirement in a game. Xenogears could've been a great book, but it will never be a great game.

Lucianu

Its a great game to me, i loved the refreshing combo based gameplay, which was a breath of fresh air from the horribly over-used simple turn-based combat in the entire FF series. I dislike the majority of JRPGs with a passion, i think they should cease to exist since the majority have ben using the blueprint set by Ultima/Dragon Quest and have barely evolved from "saving X from X evil". Horribly cliched stories, with barely any charm that bore me to tears.

But Xenogears (and Chrono Trigger with its 13 different endings) blew my expectations away (which were low considering i played them in 2008/2009), and i'll always regard them as the absolute apogee of japanese role playing games ever created, far superior to the mediocrity that is the FF series (which should have died with XII), and frankly far superior to every single JRPG ever created.

So i guess to each their own, it would ofcourse be foolish to think that any game would have universal appealness. (with the exception of Tetris, i think that game is universal)

The combo based gameplay works in theory, however the game's engine only rewards you for inputting the correct combinations. What good is having this system if you'll be spamming the same combination over and over because it produces the most powerful Deathblow for the most damage? That you enjoyed the story more than other RPGs is what I was saying in the first place: the game has that, I admit, but gameplay-wise it just fails.

That you consider it the greatest the JRPG genre has to offer is certainly your opinion, but I think in the grand scheme of the genre, it stands only because of the impact the plot had, not the gameplay.

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

I have to agree with TC on this. Xenogears is mostly overrated and overhyped. I have read the story, and it is indeed something to behold, but as a game it falls flat on its face.

I never got this game back during the PSOne's lifetime (then again, I never got any RPGs during that time), and I can only attribute the amount of praise it gets as nostalgia and focused on plot. Few people praise gameplay, I've noticed, and with good reason: it blows. I came into this game only a few months ago expecting an experience that would blow me away, that would redefine RPGs for me. I couldn't get past the 20 hour mark.

I recommend Final Fantasy IX over Crisis Core, TC. You may badmouth the game's light story all you want (to those praising Xenogears), but at least FF9 had engaging gameplay, the number one requirement in a game. Xenogears could've been a great book, but it will never be a great game.

mmmwksil

Its a great game to me, i loved the refreshing combo based gameplay, which was a breath of fresh air from the horribly over-used simple turn-based combat in the entire FF series. I dislike the majority of JRPGs with a passion, i think they should cease to exist since the majority have ben using the blueprint set by Ultima/Dragon Quest and have barely evolved from "saving X from X evil". Horribly cliched stories, with barely any charm that bore me to tears.

But Xenogears (and Chrono Trigger with its 13 different endings) blew my expectations away (which were low considering i played them in 2008/2009), and i'll always regard them as the absolute apogee of japanese role playing games ever created, far superior to the mediocrity that is the FF series (which should have died with XII), and frankly far superior to every single JRPG ever created.

So i guess to each their own, it would ofcourse be foolish to think that any game would have universal appealness. (with the exception of Tetris, i think that game is universal)

The combo based gameplay works in theory, however the game's engine only rewards you for inputting the correct combinations. What good is having this system if you'll be spamming the same combination over and over because it produces the most powerful Deathblow for the most damage? That you enjoyed the story more than other RPGs is what I was saying in the first place: the game has that, I admit, but gameplay-wise it just fails.

That you consider it the greatest the JRPG genre has to offer is certainly your opinion, but I think in the grand scheme of the genre, it stands only because of the impact the plot had, not the gameplay.

lol you had tons of combos to choose from, in the end you had like 3-4 strongest combos with each character, each unique to that character, so by combining them they never got old (not more than pressing attack and heal with the other jrpgs) not to mention they changed the pace combining the combat with gears that also had their own combos and powers, upgrades and forms through the game, not to mention how awesome was Grahf when he appeared :P

By your logic every rpg is pressing attack over and over. or selecting the opossite elemental magic over and over.

The only real flaw was that the game had outdated graphics even for it time, if they would have made it with the graphics and budget of FF 7 or 8 it would have been at the same level.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]rawsavon

I called it exactly as I wrote it earlier. Did you not see what I wrote fully? I consider it an action/adventure game or, at best, an action/RPG.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

Krelian-co

The combo based gameplay works in theory, however the game's engine only rewards you for inputting the correct combinations. What good is having this system if you'll be spamming the same combination over and over because it produces the most powerful Deathblow for the most damage? That you enjoyed the story more than other RPGs is what I was saying in the first place: the game has that, I admit, but gameplay-wise it just fails.

That you consider it the greatest the JRPG genre has to offer is certainly your opinion, but I think in the grand scheme of the genre, it stands only because of the impact the plot had, not the gameplay.

lol you had tons of combos to choose from, in the end you had like 3-4 strongest combos with each character, each unique to that character, so by combining them they never got old (not more than pressing attack and heal with the other jrpgs) not to mention they changed the pace combining the combat with gears that also had their own combos and powers, upgrades and forms through the game, not to mention how awesome was Grahf when he appeared :P

By your logic every rpg is pressing attack over and over. or selecting the opossite elemental magic over and over.

The only real flaw was that the game had outdated graphics even for it time, if they would have made it with the graphics and budget of FF 7 or 8 it would have been at the same level.

That is essentially the nature of the JRPG. Expecting otherwise is foolhardy, and whenever a game aspires to switch it up, of course I am not against it. Doesn't change the fact that the combos were poorly executed IMO and the 'whole tons of combos' meant nothing when, again, mashing the same combo over and over. At level 10 it was TTX, at level 20 it's STTX, etc. As for the gear battles, I thought they were also overused and amazingly more BORING than combat with the characters. Combos there were overly simplified versions of the character specific combos, not to mention the annoyance of building up attack levels before using them

Graphics had nothing to do with the game's quality. If it had gotten the budget it deserved, they should've improved the combat engine instead. Apparently the Xeno series (including spiritual successors Xenosaga) are just doomed to become animated storybooks instead of games as time passes.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Metamania"]Metamania

I called it exactly as I wrote it earlier. Did you not see what I wrote fully? I consider it an action/adventure game or, at best, an action/RPG.

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

The combo based gameplay works in theory, however the game's engine only rewards you for inputting the correct combinations. What good is having this system if you'll be spamming the same combination over and over because it produces the most powerful Deathblow for the most damage? That you enjoyed the story more than other RPGs is what I was saying in the first place: the game has that, I admit, but gameplay-wise it just fails.

That you consider it the greatest the JRPG genre has to offer is certainly your opinion, but I think in the grand scheme of the genre, it stands only because of the impact the plot had, not the gameplay.

mmmwksil

lol you had tons of combos to choose from, in the end you had like 3-4 strongest combos with each character, each unique to that character, so by combining them they never got old (not more than pressing attack and heal with the other jrpgs) not to mention they changed the pace combining the combat with gears that also had their own combos and powers, upgrades and forms through the game, not to mention how awesome was Grahf when he appeared :P

By your logic every rpg is pressing attack over and over. or selecting the opossite elemental magic over and over.

The only real flaw was that the game had outdated graphics even for it time, if they would have made it with the graphics and budget of FF 7 or 8 it would have been at the same level.

That is essentially the nature of the JRPG. Expecting otherwise is foolhardy, and whenever a game aspires to switch it up, of course I am not against it. Doesn't change the fact that the combos were poorly executed IMO and the 'whole tons of combos' meant nothing when, again, mashing the same combo over and over. At level 10 it was TTX, at level 20 it's STTX, etc. As for the gear battles, I thought they were also overused and amazingly more BORING than combat with the characters. Combos there were overly simplified versions of the character specific combos, not to mention the annoyance of building up attack levels before using them

Graphics had nothing to do with the game's quality. If it had gotten the budget it deserved, they should've improved the combat engine instead. Apparently the Xeno series (including spiritual successors Xenosaga) are just doomed to become animated storybooks instead of games as time passes.

The Xenosaga games had great gameplay ... Great dungeons, great battle systems (much better than Xenogears), ... just that in between large dungeons ... were large story sequences.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

hakanakumono

That is essentially the nature of the JRPG. Expecting otherwise is foolhardy, and whenever a game aspires to switch it up, of course I am not against it. Doesn't change the fact that the combos were poorly executed IMO and the 'whole tons of combos' meant nothing when, again, mashing the same combo over and over. At level 10 it was TTX, at level 20 it's STTX, etc. As for the gear battles, I thought they were also overused and amazingly more BORING than combat with the characters. Combos there were overly simplified versions of the character specific combos, not to mention the annoyance of building up attack levels before using them

Graphics had nothing to do with the game's quality. If it had gotten the budget it deserved, they should've improved the combat engine instead. Apparently the Xeno series (including spiritual successors Xenosaga) are just doomed to become animated storybooks instead of games as time passes.

The Xenosaga games had great gameplay ... Great dungeons, great battle systems (much better than Xenogears), ... just that in between large dungeons ... were large story sequences.

This is true, which is why I didn't follow up on that point. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten through all of Xenosaga to make a proper assessment.