Classic rpg advice - xenogears

[QUOTE="SenorPickle"][QUOTE="fend_oblivion"]

I played the game this year and I'm 18. So much for generalizations :|

If you don't like the game, go get Crisis Core (beautiful story) or FF 9 (the best in the series).

fend_oblivion

It seems like you've made up your mind on Xenogears. If so, why even make a thread about it? Even if I was in my 20s and played Xenogears, I would still say it is a great RPG. Also, you're judging the story when you are still in the Ethos dig site. Play the game to its entirety before you even make such claims that the story is bad. The Ethos dig site is not even the true beginning of the story.

The game takes around 40 to 55 hours to complete (provided you don't grind for the best gear and learn all the deathblows for each characters - which is pointless). The game is slow to start but once the gears (no pun intended) are in motion, it really picks off :) When I was around the Ethos segment, I too wondered what was so great about the story. But when the events about Deus unfolded, I was so glad I stuck with the game. That's why I'm telling you, don't quit just when the story is gonna unfold :)

And yes, Fei is a total idiot at first, but he becomes a better character as the game progresses.

Also, edit your post and completely censor out the words lest the mods moderate you for censor bypassing (I had it happen to me...).

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

lol you had tons of combos to choose from, in the end you had like 3-4 strongest combos with each character, each unique to that character, so by combining them they never got old (not more than pressing attack and heal with the other jrpgs) not to mention they changed the pace combining the combat with gears that also had their own combos and powers, upgrades and forms through the game, not to mention how awesome was Grahf when he appeared :P

By your logic every rpg is pressing attack over and over. or selecting the opossite elemental magic over and over.

The only real flaw was that the game had outdated graphics even for it time, if they would have made it with the graphics and budget of FF 7 or 8 it would have been at the same level.

hakanakumono

That is essentially the nature of the JRPG. Expecting otherwise is foolhardy, and whenever a game aspires to switch it up, of course I am not against it. Doesn't change the fact that the combos were poorly executed IMO and the 'whole tons of combos' meant nothing when, again, mashing the same combo over and over. At level 10 it was TTX, at level 20 it's STTX, etc. As for the gear battles, I thought they were also overused and amazingly more BORING than combat with the characters. Combos there were overly simplified versions of the character specific combos, not to mention the annoyance of building up attack levels before using them

Graphics had nothing to do with the game's quality. If it had gotten the budget it deserved, they should've improved the combat engine instead. Apparently the Xeno series (including spiritual successors Xenosaga) are just doomed to become animated storybooks instead of games as time passes.

The Xenosaga games had great gameplay ... Great dungeons, great battle systems (much better than Xenogears), ... just that in between large dungeons ... were large story sequences.

Great gameplay? I just want to vomit after that at this point. Xenogears had a great thing going for it until the later games came out...what a mess!

Great gameplay? I just want to vomit after that at this point. Xenogears had a great thing going for it until the later games came out...what a mess!

Metamania

Didn't the maker of the series say that Xenosaga is the spiritual successor of Xenogears kinda like how Bioshock is the spiritual successor of System Shock?

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

That is essentially the nature of the JRPG. Expecting otherwise is foolhardy, and whenever a game aspires to switch it up, of course I am not against it. Doesn't change the fact that the combos were poorly executed IMO and the 'whole tons of combos' meant nothing when, again, mashing the same combo over and over. At level 10 it was TTX, at level 20 it's STTX, etc. As for the gear battles, I thought they were also overused and amazingly more BORING than combat with the characters. Combos there were overly simplified versions of the character specific combos, not to mention the annoyance of building up attack levels before using them

Graphics had nothing to do with the game's quality. If it had gotten the budget it deserved, they should've improved the combat engine instead. Apparently the Xeno series (including spiritual successors Xenosaga) are just doomed to become animated storybooks instead of games as time passes.

Metamania

The Xenosaga games had great gameplay ... Great dungeons, great battle systems (much better than Xenogears), ... just that in between large dungeons ... were large story sequences.

Great gameplay? I just want to vomit after that at this point. Xenogears had a great thing going for it until the later games came out...what a mess!

How are they in any way a "mess?"

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Great gameplay? I just want to vomit after that at this point. Xenogears had a great thing going for it until the later games came out...what a mess!

fend_oblivion

Didn't the maker of the series say that Xenosaga is the spiritual successor of Xenogears kinda like how Bioshock is the spiritual successor of System Shock?

I believe so, but with the time I spent on it, it still didn't qualify as an role-playing game worth investing in. It just wasn't a lot of fun.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

The Xenosaga games had great gameplay ... Great dungeons, great battle systems (much better than Xenogears), ... just that in between large dungeons ... were large story sequences.

hakanakumono

Great gameplay? I just want to vomit after that at this point. Xenogears had a great thing going for it until the later games came out...what a mess!

How are they in any way a "mess?"

There was some gameplay to be had, but most of the time, it just felt like Square was making us watch a movie. On top of that, I found the battle system to be boring and repetitive. I didn't mind it as much in Xenogears, since there was always something new to discover, and both random and boss battles alike had a good pace. Keep in mind, I've only had experience in playing the first Xenosaga and never bothered to play the games afterwards, due to the experience I had with the first. It was just a mess. You could make the argument that I could have possibly been bored by a whole lot of dialogue and cut scenes in Xenogears, but the truth was, the story was good enough for me to sit through it all, even when there was no option to speed up the dialogue.

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

The combo based gameplay works in theory, however the game's engine only rewards you for inputting the correct combinations. What good is having this system if you'll be spamming the same combination over and over because it produces the most powerful Deathblow for the most damage? That you enjoyed the story more than other RPGs is what I was saying in the first place: the game has that, I admit, but gameplay-wise it just fails.

That you consider it the greatest the JRPG genre has to offer is certainly your opinion, but I think in the grand scheme of the genre, it stands only because of the impact the plot had, not the gameplay.

mmmwksil

lol you had tons of combos to choose from, in the end you had like 3-4 strongest combos with each character, each unique to that character, so by combining them they never got old (not more than pressing attack and heal with the other jrpgs) not to mention they changed the pace combining the combat with gears that also had their own combos and powers, upgrades and forms through the game, not to mention how awesome was Grahf when he appeared :P

By your logic every rpg is pressing attack over and over. or selecting the opossite elemental magic over and over.

The only real flaw was that the game had outdated graphics even for it time, if they would have made it with the graphics and budget of FF 7 or 8 it would have been at the same level.

That is essentially the nature of the JRPG. Expecting otherwise is foolhardy, and whenever a game aspires to switch it up, of course I am not against it. Doesn't change the fact that the combos were poorly executed IMO and the 'whole tons of combos' meant nothing when, again, mashing the same combo over and over. At level 10 it was TTX, at level 20 it's STTX, etc. As for the gear battles, I thought they were also overused and amazingly more BORING than combat with the characters. Combos there were overly simplified versions of the character specific combos, not to mention the annoyance of building up attack levels before using them

Graphics had nothing to do with the game's quality. If it had gotten the budget it deserved, they should've improved the combat engine instead. Apparently the Xeno series (including spiritual successors Xenosaga) are just doomed to become animated storybooks instead of games as time passes.

executing the same combo over and over is your choise, the game gives you tons of combos to choose from even at highest level you have like 4 "strong" combos as i said but then again you choose to do the same one over and over, it did something different, changing the usual attack for combos, so why would they fail? are you saying its better to have the standrad "attack" option over and over. If you didnt like the combos and the gears battles, thats personal, but saying it failed because you dont like it is exaggerated at best, and how gears battles were overused when only about 1/5 of the game is with them?

Xenosaga had nothing to do with xenogears, it was totally different game with another different story (bad imho) that is not connected with it anyway except some of the people who worked in it and some character recicling, they couldnt include the story for legal reasons which was the strong point of xenogears so they tried to make a bad copy of it. And ofc xenogears didnt do as well as say ff 7, it was a new IP while FF already had a huge fan base, and xenogears wasn't so streamlined for that time, while FF system was more fluid with the new ATB system.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

Krelian-co

That is essentially the nature of the JRPG. Expecting otherwise is foolhardy, and whenever a game aspires to switch it up, of course I am not against it. Doesn't change the fact that the combos were poorly executed IMO and the 'whole tons of combos' meant nothing when, again, mashing the same combo over and over. At level 10 it was TTX, at level 20 it's STTX, etc. As for the gear battles, I thought they were also overused and amazingly more BORING than combat with the characters. Combos there were overly simplified versions of the character specific combos, not to mention the annoyance of building up attack levels before using them

Graphics had nothing to do with the game's quality. If it had gotten the budget it deserved, they should've improved the combat engine instead. Apparently the Xeno series (including spiritual successors Xenosaga) are just doomed to become animated storybooks instead of games as time passes.

executing the same combo over and over is your choise, the game gives you tons of combos to choose from even at highest level you have like 4 "strong" combos as i said but then again you choose to do the same one over and over, it did something different, changing the usual attack for combos, so why would they fail? are you saying its better to have the standrad "attack" option over and over. If you didnt like the combos and the gears battles, thats personal, but saying it failed because you dont like it is exaggerated at best, and how gears battles were overused when only about 1/5 of the game is with them?

Xenosaga had nothing to do with xenogears, it was totally different game with another different story (bad imho) that is not connected with it anyway except some of the people who worked in it and some character recicling, they couldnt include the story for legal reasons which was the strong point of xenogears so they tried to make a bad copy of it. And ofc xenogears didnt do as well as say ff 7, it was a new IP while FF already had a huge fan base, and xenogears wasn't so streamlined for that time, while FF system was more fluid with the new ATB system.

You say you have "tons of combos to choose from even at higest level you have like 4 'strong' combos", but again how is this any different from picking Attack/Insert Super Attack Name Here repeatedly? I never once mentioned that spamming Attack over and over is better, but you're trying to establish that forcing the player to input a combo sequence is better than simple Attack input. If the combo itself carried better reward in game, I'd concede, but all it really does is turn one input into four for the same result. Four to choose from at max level? Why bother, when there's one strongest?

Look at it from a technical standpoint: why would I shoot for 80 damage over 120? Because I like the way Fei drop kicks for 80? Aesthetically, yes, it is nice to have options, but there is nothing else there. If each combo gave additional benefits, say increased speed following the combo, stun the foe because they were just suplexed, then the system would work better.

As for Gear battles, I cannot say how often they were used beyond the 20 hour mark, because I admit to never finishing my own copy of the game. But those first 20 hours? 70% gear battles. I CRAVED kicking all sorts of backside with Fei, instead I was shuttled from one point to another after that tournament in the beginning of the game for the next 5-10 hours! In between I got lots of tedious, repetitive Gear fights. When I hit the sewers and was granted some freedom to run about and play a JRPG I was ecstatic. An empty joy, as it would turn out.

I am not here to challenge your liking the game, more power to you. I just want you to understand my experience, and my viewpoint of the combat engine. Like I always say: a good fan defends the games they like, a true fan admits the faults the game has when a second opinion presents them.

a good fan defends the games they like, a true fan admits the faults the game has when a second opinion presents them.

mmmwksil

• Horendously repetitive random encounters
• Mediocre japanese to english translation
• Laughably bad voice acting in the videos

^^^ Those are the cons that i will always aknowledge about the game. But fortunately for me it's pros outweight its cons. Every single game out there, has its pros and its cons. What defines a great game is its ability to outweight its cons. Gameplay was never one of its cons, for me, i welcomed it, i enjoyed it. I played it for 60 freakin' hours, glued to it until i finished the behemoth.

May i say the cliche saying: "To each their own?"

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

That is essentially the nature of the JRPG. Expecting otherwise is foolhardy, and whenever a game aspires to switch it up, of course I am not against it. Doesn't change the fact that the combos were poorly executed IMO and the 'whole tons of combos' meant nothing when, again, mashing the same combo over and over. At level 10 it was TTX, at level 20 it's STTX, etc. As for the gear battles, I thought they were also overused and amazingly more BORING than combat with the characters. Combos there were overly simplified versions of the character specific combos, not to mention the annoyance of building up attack levels before using them

Graphics had nothing to do with the game's quality. If it had gotten the budget it deserved, they should've improved the combat engine instead. Apparently the Xeno series (including spiritual successors Xenosaga) are just doomed to become animated storybooks instead of games as time passes.

mmmwksil

executing the same combo over and over is your choise, the game gives you tons of combos to choose from even at highest level you have like 4 "strong" combos as i said but then again you choose to do the same one over and over, it did something different, changing the usual attack for combos, so why would they fail? are you saying its better to have the standrad "attack" option over and over. If you didnt like the combos and the gears battles, thats personal, but saying it failed because you dont like it is exaggerated at best, and how gears battles were overused when only about 1/5 of the game is with them?

Xenosaga had nothing to do with xenogears, it was totally different game with another different story (bad imho) that is not connected with it anyway except some of the people who worked in it and some character recicling, they couldnt include the story for legal reasons which was the strong point of xenogears so they tried to make a bad copy of it. And ofc xenogears didnt do as well as say ff 7, it was a new IP while FF already had a huge fan base, and xenogears wasn't so streamlined for that time, while FF system was more fluid with the new ATB system.

You say you have "tons of combos to choose from even at higest level you have like 4 'strong' combos", but again how is this any different from picking Attack/Insert Super Attack Name Here repeatedly? I never once mentioned that spamming Attack over and over is better, but you're trying to establish that forcing the player to input a combo sequence is better than simple Attack input. If the combo itself carried better reward in game, I'd concede, but all it really does is turn one input into four for the same result. Four to choose from at max level? Why bother, when there's one strongest?

Look at it from a technical standpoint: why would I shoot for 80 damage over 120? Because I like the way Fei drop kicks for 80? Aesthetically, yes, it is nice to have options, but there is nothing else there. If each combo gave additional benefits, say increased speed following the combo, stun the foe because they were just suplexed, then the system would work better.

As for Gear battles, I cannot say how often they were used beyond the 20 hour mark, because I admit to never finishing my own copy of the game. But those first 20 hours? 70% gear battles. I CRAVED kicking all sorts of backside with Fei, instead I was shuttled from one point to another after that tournament in the beginning of the game for the next 5-10 hours! In between I got lots of tedious, repetitive Gear fights. When I hit the sewers and was granted some freedom to run about and play a JRPG I was ecstatic. An empty joy, as it would turn out.

I am not here to challenge your liking the game, more power to you. I just want you to understand my experience, and my viewpoint of the combat engine. Like I always say: a good fan defends the games they like, a true fan admits the faults the game has when a second opinion presents them.

are you putting effort on missing my point or you dont actually get it?

http://www.xgam.org/xenogears/help/skills.php

except for fei (main char) who has 2 other combos at level 70 and 80 /and learn them very late in the game, everyone learns their 4 last combos at level 55 including fei, which are the stroongest and you can change between them, is not one does 80 and the other one does 120, each character have 4 combos which are equally strong at level 55 and are their last one, got it? is not one strong combo, and liek you said you didnt finish the game, in fact i can clearly see you didnt get very far so it would be quite obvious that you use the strongest attack you have at the time, is like when you get that new magic at level xx in a jrpg ofc it will be the strongest and the most used if it was the last one you unlocked, dont see your point here.

And its too bad you didn't like it, im not saying you should, because to each his own, but leave your opinion as an opinion and dont try to support it by making wrong statements as if they were true.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

Krelian-co

You say you have "tons of combos to choose from even at higest level you have like 4 'strong' combos", but again how is this any different from picking Attack/Insert Super Attack Name Here repeatedly? I never once mentioned that spamming Attack over and over is better, but you're trying to establish that forcing the player to input a combo sequence is better than simple Attack input. If the combo itself carried better reward in game, I'd concede, but all it really does is turn one input into four for the same result. Four to choose from at max level? Why bother, when there's one strongest?

Look at it from a technical standpoint: why would I shoot for 80 damage over 120? Because I like the way Fei drop kicks for 80? Aesthetically, yes, it is nice to have options, but there is nothing else there. If each combo gave additional benefits, say increased speed following the combo, stun the foe because they were just suplexed, then the system would work better.

As for Gear battles, I cannot say how often they were used beyond the 20 hour mark, because I admit to never finishing my own copy of the game. But those first 20 hours? 70% gear battles. I CRAVED kicking all sorts of backside with Fei, instead I was shuttled from one point to another after that tournament in the beginning of the game for the next 5-10 hours! In between I got lots of tedious, repetitive Gear fights. When I hit the sewers and was granted some freedom to run about and play a JRPG I was ecstatic. An empty joy, as it would turn out.

I am not here to challenge your liking the game, more power to you. I just want you to understand my experience, and my viewpoint of the combat engine. Like I always say: a good fan defends the games they like, a true fan admits the faults the game has when a second opinion presents them.

are you putting effort on missing my point or you dont actually get it?

http://www.xgam.org/xenogears/help/skills.php

except for fei (main char) who has 2 other combos at level 70 and 80 /and learn them very late in the game, everyone learns their 4 last combos at level 55 including fei, which are the stroongest and you can change between them, is not one does 80 and the other one does 120, each character have 4 combos which are equally strong at level 55 and are their last one, got it? is not one strong combo, and liek you said you didnt finish the game, in fact i can clearly see you didnt get very far so it would be quite obvious that you use the strongest attack you have at the time, is like when you get that new magic at level xx in a jrpg ofc it will be the strongest and the most used if it was the last one you unlocked, dont see your point here.

And its too bad you didn't like it, im not saying you should, because to each his own, but leave your opinion as an opinion and dont try to support it by making wrong statements as if they were true.

Okay, I'll admit that I was misinformed about the combos, and thank you for clearing it up for me.

I can't know how much longer it was until the end of the game, but if after 20-25 hours I have only played through a few locales, the game is moving at a terribly slow pace. And one final thing, I did not make "wrong statements" to support my opinion, I only used my experience in relation to other RPGs I have played to make an assessment.

So we're cool! :P

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

Great gameplay? I just want to vomit after that at this point. Xenogears had a great thing going for it until the later games came out...what a mess!

Metamania

How are they in any way a "mess?"

There was some gameplay to be had, but most of the time, it just felt like Square was making us watch a movie. On top of that, I found the battle system to be boring and repetitive. I didn't mind it as much in Xenogears, since there was always something new to discover, and both random and boss battles alike had a good pace. Keep in mind, I've only had experience in playing the first Xenosaga and never bothered to play the games afterwards, due to the experience I had with the first. It was just a mess. You could make the argument that I could have possibly been bored by a whole lot of dialogue and cut scenes in Xenogears, but the truth was, the story was good enough for me to sit through it all, even when there was no option to speed up the dialogue.

Square didn't make Xenosaga ... and I couldn't disagree more, I found the games' battle systems challenging and engaging and the dungeons were large and well designed. Yes, there were large story portions, but there were large gameplay portions as well. I'm not saying that there weren't overly long cutscenes in the original, or that there weren't scenes that needed to be cut (the 3rd game switches between written text scenes and full cutscenes, which is a much better balance). But a "mess?" Hardly. Just very different pacing than other games.

[QUOTE="Metamania"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

How are they in any way a "mess?"

hakanakumono

There was some gameplay to be had, but most of the time, it just felt like Square was making us watch a movie. On top of that, I found the battle system to be boring and repetitive. I didn't mind it as much in Xenogears, since there was always something new to discover, and both random and boss battles alike had a good pace. Keep in mind, I've only had experience in playing the first Xenosaga and never bothered to play the games afterwards, due to the experience I had with the first. It was just a mess. You could make the argument that I could have possibly been bored by a whole lot of dialogue and cut scenes in Xenogears, but the truth was, the story was good enough for me to sit through it all, even when there was no option to speed up the dialogue.

Square didn't make Xenosaga ... and I couldn't disagree more, I found the games' battle systems challenging and engaging and the dungeons were large and well designed. Yes, there were large story portions, but there were large gameplay portions as well. I'm not saying that there weren't overly long cutscenes in the original, or that there weren't scenes that needed to be cut (the 3rd game switches between written text scenes and full cutscenes, which is a much better balance). But a "mess?" Hardly. Just very different pacing than other games.

My bad, I should have said Monolith Soft created it while Namco published it, but technically, I am in the right, since most of Monolith is compromised of most of the team who worked on Xenogears and left Square for Monolith. That being said, I just feel differently on the game as you do. Maybe if I had given it another playthrough or two, I may have gotten a different vibe and not be given a sour taste instead. To each their own though - Xenosaga is a series that can either be loved or hated, as it's shown here.

My this post got pretty heated there but let's get back to the main topic. So... I finally sucked it up and finished the game. I've got to say, this is easily making both my "most overrated" and "worst overall" games lists. The topics of gameplay and deathblows have already been beaten to death on this thread, so I'll leave those alone. However, that leaves the ever popular story. There is a big difference between having a complex story and simply stringing a bunch of big words into a completely nonsensical concept. Xenogears has absolutely no direction, and it convolutes a generic "prophetic" legacy to try to trick you into thinking it contains something original. What the story truly is is crap. This game gets a 6/10 for effort. SenorPickle

OK, good thing you took our advice and went ahead and finished it.While I can understand that the second disc was rushed, you said the story was crap.

How so? Why do you feel it's crap? Any opinion or evidence to back that up?

You're right, with a game this popular I should explain why I didn't like the story. There are two main criticisms I have: a) the story itself b) its execution. But before I get into things, I want to address the 2nd disc. While I thought the second disc was a disaster, I completely understand time/budget constraints and I cannot really hold that against the developer. Therefore, my critique of the plot has nothing to do with the administrative problems that caused the 2nd disc to be the way that it was.

a) The story: If you strip all the glitter from the plot of Xenogears you get a crudely generic "return of the prophet" story. A select few are able to be re-born through each generation until the time is right for them to finally save the world ... This sort of simple story can be pulled off and create a badass game/book/movie, but Xenogears doesn't do that (I'll elaborate in part b).

My main beef however if that every other person who seems to love this game has completely missed the fact that Xenogears makes absolutely no sense for the majority of the story. I'm not saying that I don't "get" the story, I fully understand what they were trying to do. What I mean is that either the developers opened a dictionary and decided to string multi-syllabic words into a sentence to attempt to sound smart, or they simply had no concern for even the slightest bit of objectivity or accuracy. Xenogears is written like a HORRIBLY put together psuedo-science novella. It's completely appropriate and often very effective to make up fake science to explain your science fiction universe (i.e. Star Wars), but you can't have your cake and it eat to. If you're going to attempt to inculde real-world science concept you need to do the research and pull them off the right way, Xenogears doesn't do that.

One pro: the part about genetic material passing down learned behavior through childbirth is actually really cool and has been discussed in literature a few times. Just thought I should mention that while I'm bashing this game.

b) Execution: Aside from my actual opinion on the story, how it unfolds is even worse. First of all, if you're going to imbue someone with devine power, you have to change the gameplay elements to reflect that!!! How is Fei theoretically stronger than Id, but isn't even your physically strongest character? But I digress. The way in which this game decides to add more story concepts is remedial at best. I can barely believe that this game was created by adults, let alone smart adults that can program a video game. It's almost as if they never reviewed their progress until the very end, then clumpt all the parts (written and programmed by completely different people) and just said "f**k it!".

Like I said in part a, this sort of story is completely tried and true, you can make it work and develop a great game with it. However, if you're going to use this core story, you have two option: 1) you keep it elegant. Use the basics and add a twist at the end. 2) Add complexity in an acceptable way. Xenogears does neither of these two things. What Xenogears does is add more and more core plot concepts, little by little, until the end product has lost all continuity. If this game were 400 hours long, and you could somehow (albeit unlikely) tie each of these elements (wave dimension, monster people, global warfare, nanomachines) togther that actually strengthens the main storyline, then this game could work....but they didn't. What all of these things did was convolute the entire reason you play the game in the first place.

ok since you took your time to write that wall of text i will answwer.

If you resume a story like that every single game book will be generic, its like saying "mass effect is another aliens attack earth generic story" where are the details? a prophet story? fei was reborn many many times before not because he was needed, and they even showed he had different lifes, and he was killed in each one, how is he a prophet if he was a normal guy doing normal things? last one was different because they realized who he was and tried to control his power, which is why they make those experiments and id is born (he doesnt even realize he had that power in past lifes)

Also i dont know if you were paying attention to the story or im guessing you didnt get it but they explain why fei is not as powerful as id at the beggining, his personality is only a replacement for the original, since he locked himself and his father locked id, feis personality was "new" and was only 3 year old and that shows why he is kind of immature at the bginning, only when he merges with the original and Id he can release his power And how is Fei theoretically more powerful than Id? Id spent all his youth training with Grahf, remember he kidnapped him when he was a kid and only returned to normal 3 years before the game started when his father managed to seal him (another little detail you missed i guess?again in past lifes he didnt know how to use his power so im guessing Grahf did show Id how).

I think the way they told the story over thousand of years and how every life was different and they addeed up at the end was very well done, i dont remember it having any incoherences, the way Grahf was created, Id story the omnigears, the story about the emperor, solaris,and the past warsetc they all connected and added something meaningful, very well done.

The real problem with xenogears is they didn't tell you everything in your face "a happenned 400 years ago so b now happens" and thats why some people fail to understand it.

well i agree sometimes you had to read way to much in the game but back then it was normal for rpgs, i personally think xenogears hype was made after the game was launched and it was because of the qwuality of the game, they cut their budget to favor ff 7 which was in development back then, and yet they managed to do an awesome game so i think that has its merits.

well i agree sometimes you had to read way to much in the game but back then it was normal for rpgs, i personally think xenogears hype was made after the game was launched and it was because of the qwuality of the game, they cut their budget to favor ff 7 which was in development back then, and yet they managed to do an awesome game so i think that has its merits.

Krelian-co

Thanks for clarifying those things. I do understand the plot but maybe my point was lost by writing so much. Basically what I'm really try to get across can be put in the following analogy. Take a start-up company for example. Many entrepreneurs have really great ideas but their companies flop and go bankrupt. The difference between two companies, both built with great ideas, and their eventual success or failure relies on their execution. Xenogears story is a great one, but the way it was carried out didn't create a game that, IMO, lives up to the insane hype. SenorPickle