Dante's Inferno Thread - Reviews are in! OXM 8, IGN 7.5, 1up C+, so-so

I finished Dante's Inferno last night; it took me just under 8 hours on medium difficulty, and I hardly hurried through. I have no idea how anyone could manage to stretch it to 15. That claim is rather flabbergasting to me.

Don't forget to read the novel before the review! Not since Seven Samurai 20XX has such a faithful adaptation hit the market!

CarnageHeart

Maybe I'm not getting it, but anyway. Not to ba nazi-ish but this piece of literature deserves truth. It's not a novel but a poem and anyone who read it knows it's impossible to make a faithful videogame adaptation that would be anything else than walking around and talking. And climbing around Satan's back.

It's an alright fun game, it's silly while trying to be serious, but is still alright. I'd score it between 7.0 and 8.0. :)

I don't see the point of this game being released now. It seems that Bayonetta, Darksiders, and eventually GoW3 are superior.Nifty_Shark

Then what's the point of doing something if at the start you decide that it has or will be done better at some point? :P

[QUOTE="Nifty_Shark"]I don't see the point of this game being released now. It seems that Bayonetta, Darksiders, and eventually GoW3 are superior.longtonguecat

Then what's the point of doing something if at the start you decide that it has or will be done better at some point? :P

Make sure your release schedule doesn't screw you over :P

The bottom line is that the GOW demo, which is based on a year old build, looks and plays better than DI. The only thing people will accomplish by comparing these two games isshinning a light onthe glaring mediocrity of DI.

Based on the demo, 7-8 score range sounds about right. The irony being, of course, that God of War itself had no business getting anything better, in my opinion. Or has everyone forgotten about its shallow, button-mashy combat system, unimaginitive boss fights (all 3 of them!) and some absolutely idiotic design choices (platforming segments, timed tasks)?

I don't know why so many posters found the game mediocre, I recently tried the demo and after reading people's impressions in other DI threads I wasn't expecting much. Personally I left surprised after playing the demo, the combat mechanics felt solid (my only complaint is trying to attack fast enough after blocking enemy attacks), I really liked the CG scenes and the landscape early in the demo, it reminded me of the Gladiator movie. The story looks to be good, and I'll be getting this game when I wasn't interested in the first place. On the other hand I tried the Battlefield BC2 beta, and the MP demo on XBL trying to justify to go and pre-order it and reading people's opinion at how good it is and how MW2 sucks compared to it; instead I replaced it with Dantes Inferno though it will have to wait a bit. PS I liked the previous Bad Company gamet though.

I don't know if I'm the only one here, but I enjoyed the Dante's Inferno demo more than GoW III E3 demo, that's not to say I won't be picking the game at launch since I already preordered the Ultimate Edition and I just hope it will be as good as GoW 2. I'm just a little confused why people found the GoW demo much,much better than DI? This is coming from someone who considers the GoW games one of the best games of last generation. Now I don't expect DI to be a GOTY contender, but I expect a solid 7-8.5 game here unless the whole game is just trash after the demo.

Based on the demo, 7-8 score range sounds about right. The irony being, of course, that God of War itself had no business getting anything better, in my opinion. Or has everyone forgotten about its shallow, button-mashy combat system, unimaginitive boss fights (all 3 of them!) and some absolutely idiotic design choices (platforming segments, timed tasks)?

UpInFlames

Well, as much as I respect you personally, on this I think you are dead wrong. The combat in GOW isn't the most nuanced but dismissing it as button-mashy is a bit excessive; I actually think the combat straddles the line between casual and hardcore quite well, letting anybody pound the buttons but also giving the more experienced action-junkie the freedom to perform some wicked combos. By all accounts, the demo for GOWIII suggests the combat system will offer even more variety and frankly, I've never understood the whole button-mash argument to begin with because from my perspective, button mashing means the person playing isn't really interested in exploring or experiencing the game in a meaningful way to begin with and might as well play something else. I mean, you can also mash in a fighting game but that ultimately goes against the grain of what was intended by the developer.

The boss fights in the GOW franchise have been anything but unimaginative; actually, I'd assert the contrary: they've been downright inventive and the only valid criticism I could levy against them is their ease. As for the platforming elements, puzzles and timed tasks, again, I think they are generally very well crafted and play accordingly. I think there is a reason why this franchise gets so much respect and I certainly don't feel it's due to it being overrated, especially when you consider how many other top notch action franchises and games occupy the market. I do agree that certain games offer better core combat, including DMC, Ninja Gaiden, and even Bayonetta, but as a whole, when you consider narrative, presentation and gameplay, the GOW games deserve all of the accolades they receive because they are well rounded and polished endeavors.

And honestly, if GOW deserves a score in the 7-8 range then Dante's Inferno is at best a solid 5, especially when you consider how derivative it is of GOW.

I'm just a little confused why people found the GoW demo much,much better than DI? This is coming from someone who considers the GoW games one of the best games of last generation.

D3s7rUc71oN

I opted to bullet point my own observations as to why the GOWIII demo was better:

- Vastly superior visuals

- Much more fluid gameplay, specifically the combat

- The combat variety in GOWIII seems much better than what is found in DI, an opinion reinforced by IGN's review.

- More inventive terrain and level design

- more enemy variety

- mini-boss fights more varied and, in my opinion, play much better than those found in DI.

- Overall set pieces in GOWIII demo much more impressive and I also think the gore in the game is much better in terms of implementation and effectiveness. Both games are striving for an aesthetic brutality but for me personally, GOWIII achieves that goal by leaps and bounds with a better ****and art direction.

To be fair, GOWIII plays like the previous games in the franchise with smaller, more evolutionary improvements to gameplay and of course the graphical leap facilitated by vastly superior technology. DI isn't a bad game but the whole thing came off as boring but bear in mind that unlike you, I actually went in with high expectations so perhaps my own POV is a tad unrealistic. Considering how good Dead Space was I sincerely expected something more than a paint-by-numbers action excursion but with so many other AA and AAA action titles either released or on the horizon this game just came off as tepid.

I wonder who's going to review the game here in GS... (maybe Kevin-V since he responded to this thread?)

[QUOTE="D3s7rUc71oN"]

I'm just a little confused why people found the GoW demo much,much better than DI? This is coming from someone who considers the GoW games one of the best games of last generation.

Grammaton-Cleric

I opted to bullet point my own observations as to why the GOWIII demo was better:

- Vastly superior visuals

- Much more fluid gameplay, specifically the combat

- The combat variety in GOWIII seems much better than what is found in DI, an opinion reinforced by IGN's review.

- More inventive terrain and level design

- more enemy variety

- mini-boss fights more varied and, in my opinion, play much better than those found in DI.

- Overall set pieces in GOWIII demo much more impressive and I also think the gore in the game is much better in terms of implementation and effectiveness. Both games are striving for an aesthetic brutality but for me personally, GOWIII achieves that goal by leaps and bounds with a better ****and art direction.

I see where you're coming from with the GoWIII demo, and yes I see the art ****and level desing is better in GoW (game is not too dark in some areas like DI), its probably because I found the combat it too similar to the previous games in the E3 demo that I wasn't to impressed (it was good, but not holy $@!% amazing) So now that you point it out, its the combat the surprised me most in DI, I tend to focus mainly on the combat in these type of games. I found it solid enough, yet it lacks the fluidity of GoW to perform attacks; its also a tad slower pace in combat and I think DI would benefit if its more responsive in attacks and a faster pace like GoW, but it would be a little unrealistic given the main character in the game. I hope they fix this issue in the sequel if there's one. The platforming was something to be left desired in the demo of DI, hopefully its a least decent in the retail version, so yes for me the game sold me on the combat.

Just like games like DMC and NG that offer better combat than GoW, but GoW surpasses these games in overall package in terms of story, puzzles, level design,platforming elements. What I saw in DI going for, was its combat, its probably why I enjoyed more than the GoW demo b/c its something that I've already played before save for more enemies and better visuals along with the variety set pieces.

The bottom line is that the GOW demo, which is based on a year old build, looks and plays better than DI. The only thing people will accomplish by comparing these two games isshinning a light onthe glaring mediocrity of DI.

Grammaton-Cleric

I agree with you there.

But I was still willing to play DI and sit through the mediocrity only if the game was a bit longer. The game being under 10 hours is only hurting it, and EA/Viceral Games' genuis idea of holding back content on the 360 version was a great move on their part. :roll: (Obvious sarcasm).

If the game was longer, I'd play it. But I'll skip it for now. $60 isn't worth it.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="D3s7rUc71oN"]

I'm just a little confused why people found the GoW demo much,much better than DI? This is coming from someone who considers the GoW games one of the best games of last generation.

D3s7rUc71oN

I opted to bullet point my own observations as to why the GOWIII demo was better:

- Vastly superior visuals

- Much more fluid gameplay, specifically the combat

- The combat variety in GOWIII seems much better than what is found in DI, an opinion reinforced by IGN's review.

- More inventive terrain and level design

- more enemy variety

- mini-boss fights more varied and, in my opinion, play much better than those found in DI.

- Overall set pieces in GOWIII demo much more impressive and I also think the gore in the game is much better in terms of implementation and effectiveness. Both games are striving for an aesthetic brutality but for me personally, GOWIII achieves that goal by leaps and bounds with a better ****and art direction.

I see where you're coming from with the GoWIII demo, and yes I see the art ****and level desing is better in GoW (game is not too dark in some areas like DI), its probably because I found the combat it too similar to the previous games in the E3 demo that I wasn't to impressed (it was good, but not holy $@!% amazing) So now that you point it out, its the combat the surprised me most in DI, I tend to focus mainly on the combat in these type of games. I found it solid enough, yet it lacks the fluidity of GoW to perform attacks; its also a tad slower pace in combat and I think DI would benefit if its more responsive in attacks and a faster pace like GoW, but it would be a little unrealistic given the main character in the game. I hope they fix this issue in the sequel if there's one. The platforming was something to be left desired in the demo of DI, hopefully its a least decent in the retail version, so yes for me the game sold me on the combat.

Just like games like DMC and NG that offer better combat than GoW, but GoW surpasses these games in overall package in terms of story, puzzles, level design,platforming elements. What I saw in DI going for, was its combat, its probably why I enjoyed more than the GoW demo b/c its something that I've already played before save for more enemies and better visuals along with the variety set pieces.

And the thing is, derivative doesn't mean bad. I love THQ's Conan game and it rips off GOW left and right. DI isn't a bad game and given the possibility of leveling up and unlocking more techniques it might actually be much better than the demo let on. Keep in mind thatthe Dead Space demo was so poor that it kept many people from buying the full retail game, which was excellent. I'd actually love to read some of your impressions of the full game because you obviously have a passion for the genre that rivals my own. At the very least, this might be a title worth nabbing when the price lowers a bit.

Well, as much as I respect you personally, on this I think you are dead wrong. The combat in GOW isn't the most nuanced but dismissing it as button-mashy is a bit excessive; I actually think the combat straddles the line between casual and hardcore quite well, letting anybody pound the buttons but also giving the more experienced action-junkie the freedom to perform some wicked combos. By all accounts, the demo for GOWIII suggests the combat system will offer even more variety and frankly, I've never understood the whole button-mash argument to begin with because from my perspective, button mashing means the person playing isn't really interested in exploring or experiencing the game in a meaningful way to begin with and might as well play something else. I mean, you can also mash in a fighting game but that ultimately goes against the grain of what was intended by the developer.

The boss fights in the GOW franchise have been anything but unimaginative; actually, I'd assert the contrary: they've been downright inventive and the only valid criticism I could levy against them is their ease. As for the platforming elements, puzzles and timed tasks, again, I think they are generally very well crafted and play accordingly. I think there is a reason why this franchise gets so much respect and I certainly don't feel it's due to it being overrated, especially when you consider how many other top notch action franchises and games occupy the market. I do agree that certain games offer better core combat, including DMC, Ninja Gaiden, and even Bayonetta, but as a whole, when you consider narrative, presentation and gameplay, the GOW games deserve all of the accolades they receive because they are well rounded and polished endeavors.

And honestly, if GOW deserves a score in the 7-8 range then Dante's Inferno is at best a solid 5, especially when you consider how derivative it is of GOW.Grammaton-Cleric

The button-mashing argument to me means that mindlessly mashing on buttons is a legitimate gameplay strategy. Sure, you can mash buttons in Ninja Gaiden or Dead or Alive, but you won't get anywhere. You will lose. You cannot button-mash your way through those games. Button mashing will get you to the very end of God of War (and to drive the point home, Mortal Kombat).

God of War's puzzles are fine, I never complained about those. I truly hated the platforming elements which were basic and crude. They also destroyed the pacing thanks to their extreme reliance on trial and error (and more often than not, dumb luck) as well as being surprisingly unforgiving in an otherwise easy, fast-paced game. As for the timed tasks, well, timed tasks just universally suck as far as I'm concerned, but those found in God of War came off as particularly annoying.

I think God of War owes most of its appeal to the stellar presentation. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The gameplay is more than adequate. I just can't understand this downplaying of Dante's Inferno as if God of War is so obviously superior. Dante's Inferno ain't no Saints Row and God of War sure as hell ain't no Grand Theft Auto. :P

I actually went in with high expectations so perhaps my own POV is a tad unrealistic.Grammaton-Cleric

I expected a completely derivative game, but was pleasantly surprised to find a very enjoyable demo. In fact, I'd give Dante's Inferno an edge in terms of combat depth and variety. I really dig the ranged crucifix attack as well as the magic attacks. Also, I think Visceral drew inspiration from Onimusha (although not as much as God of War, obviously) which I personally appreciated quite a bit.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]Well, as much as I respect you personally, on this I think you are dead wrong. The combat in GOW isn't the most nuanced but dismissing it as button-mashy is a bit excessive; I actually think the combat straddles the line between casual and hardcore quite well, letting anybody pound the buttons but also giving the more experienced action-junkie the freedom to perform some wicked combos. By all accounts, the demo for GOWIII suggests the combat system will offer even more variety and frankly, I've never understood the whole button-mash argument to begin with because from my perspective, button mashing means the person playing isn't really interested in exploring or experiencing the game in a meaningful way to begin with and might as well play something else. I mean, you can also mash in a fighting game but that ultimately goes against the grain of what was intended by the developer.

The boss fights in the GOW franchise have been anything but unimaginative; actually, I'd assert the contrary: they've been downright inventive and the only valid criticism I could levy against them is their ease. As for the platforming elements, puzzles and timed tasks, again, I think they are generally very well crafted and play accordingly. I think there is a reason why this franchise gets so much respect and I certainly don't feel it's due to it being overrated, especially when you consider how many other top notch action franchises and games occupy the market. I do agree that certain games offer better core combat, including DMC, Ninja Gaiden, and even Bayonetta, but as a whole, when you consider narrative, presentation and gameplay, the GOW games deserve all of the accolades they receive because they are well rounded and polished endeavors.

And honestly, if GOW deserves a score in the 7-8 range then Dante's Inferno is at best a solid 5, especially when you consider how derivative it is of GOW.UpInFlames

The button-mashing argument to me means that mindlessly mashing on buttons is a legitimate gameplay strategy. Sure, you can mash buttons in Ninja Gaiden or Dead or Alive, but you won't get anywhere. You will lose. You cannot button-mash your way through those games. Button mashing will get you to the very end of God of War (and to drive the point home, Mortal Kombat).

God of War's puzzles are fine, I never complained about those. I truly hated the platforming elements which were basic and crude. They also destroyed the pacing thanks to their extreme reliance on trial and error (and more often than not, dumb luck) as well as being surprisingly unforgiving in an otherwise easy, fast-paced game. As for the timed tasks, well, timed tasks just universally suck as far as I'm concerned, but those found in God of War came off as particularly annoying.

I think God of War owes most of its appeal to the stellar presentation. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The gameplay is more than adequate. I just can't understand this downplaying of Dante's Inferno as if God of War is so obviously superior. Dante's Inferno ain't no Saints Row and God of War sure as hell ain't no Grand Theft Auto. :P

The problem here is that you are still comparing DI to a five year old game. yes, GOW1 came out five years ago. If GOW1 came out today with only three boss fights, with the same platforming elements and combat system, it wouldn't have people gushing over it like they did five years ago. GOW2 improved upon every single aspect of GOW1. There were 10-15 boss fights in GOW2, the platforming was improved A LOT with the addition of the grapple move, and slow mo.... the slow mo made puzzles a lot less frustrating. Some of the puzzles were actually genius. They also took the high production values of the first game and took it to a whole new level. I have yet to play a current gen game that does scale quite like GOW2. It's simply phenomenal.

Now still, that game came out 3 years ago. You cant say 'oh but DI should get a free pass because GOW2 did' because GOW2 came out three years ago. If GOW3 doesn't up the ante then I am sure a lot of people will come out and say it's more of the same. You actually have some people saying it after trying the demo. So there, even GOW3 doesn't get a free pass.

Oh and try button mashing in GOW2. Even on easy, you will have to use your block attacks, jump and evade out of the attacks. The boss fights were also really challenging. The thing is that GOW evolved, DI seems like it's trying to copy a 5 year old game.... right down to the graphics. No anti-aliasing, wtf?

I do think it's unfair that we are judging Dante Inferno the game based on our impressions of Dante Inferno the Demo. From my experience, action adventure games usually get more and more epic as they go on. And from the vids I've seen, some of the set pieces look absolutly stunning. So I am willing to give it a chance, but all these Cs and 7.5s aren't helping. :P

The problem here is that you are still comparing DI to a five year old game. yes, GOW1 came out five years ago. If GOW1 came out today with only three boss fights, with the same platforming elements and combat system, it wouldn't have people gushing over it like they did five years ago.S0lidSnake

I suspected somebody might raise this point. However, I myself already considered it and it doesn't apply. Why? Because this genre hasn't moved at all for a long time now. Because the bar was raised extremely high SIX years ago. So gushing over God of War five years ago or five days ago doesn't make any difference. Gushing over Call of Duty back in 2003 and gushing over it now...that's a different matter because since 2003 we've had genre-defining games such as Half-Life 2 and Crysis. Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry 3 are still widely regarded as the best this genre has offered and they both came out before God of War did.

You cant say 'oh but DI should get a free pass because GOW2 did' because GOW2 came out three years ago. If GOW3 doesn't up the ante then I am sure a lot of people will come out and say it's more of the same. You actually have some people saying it after trying the demo. So there, even GOW3 doesn't get a free pass.S0lidSnake

Where exactly have I said that Dante's Inferno should get a free pass?

I do think it's unfair that we are judging Dante Inferno the game based on our impressions of Dante Inferno the Demo. From my experience, action adventure games usually get more and more epic as they go on. And from the vids I've seen, some of the set pieces look absolutly stunning. So I am willing to give it a chance, but all these Cs and 7.5s aren't helping. :P

S0lidSnake

The issues I had with the demo are the exact same issues Eurogamer had with the main game, so the demo is representative of the full game(as is usually the case).

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]The problem here is that you are still comparing DI to a five year old game. yes, GOW1 came out five years ago. If GOW1 came out today with only three boss fights, with the same platforming elements and combat system, it wouldn't have people gushing over it like they did five years ago.UpInFlames

I suspected somebody might raise this point. However, I myself already considered it and it doesn't apply. Why? Because this genre hasn't moved at all for a long time now. Because the bar was raised extremely high SIX years ago. So gushing over God of War five years ago or five days ago doesn't make any difference. Gushing over Call of Duty back in 2003 and gushing over it now...that's a different matter because since 2003 we've had genre-defining games such as Half-Life 2 and Crysis. Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry 3 are still widely regarded as the best this genre has offered and they both came out before God of War did.

You cant say 'oh but DI should get a free pass because GOW2 did' because GOW2 came out three years ago. If GOW3 doesn't up the ante then I am sure a lot of people will come out and say it's more of the same. You actually have some people saying it after trying the demo. So there, even GOW3 doesn't get a free pass.S0lidSnake

Where exactly have I said that Dante's Inferno should get a free pass?

So you want to ignore a lack of progress and embrace unimaginative mediocrity? Fair enough. Like I said, I'm a Visceral fan who thought that Dante's Inferno would be to God of War what Dead Space was to RE4. Sadly, all they made is a pale imitation.

Given your professed contempt for GoW (the reasons you cite aren't true, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you in this and other threads, but obviously nothing is going to change your mind) I don't understand why you are apologizing for ainferior knockoff.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]Well, as much as I respect you personally, on this I think you are dead wrong. The combat in GOW isn't the most nuanced but dismissing it as button-mashy is a bit excessive; I actually think the combat straddles the line between casual and hardcore quite well, letting anybody pound the buttons but also giving the more experienced action-junkie the freedom to perform some wicked combos. By all accounts, the demo for GOWIII suggests the combat system will offer even more variety and frankly, I've never understood the whole button-mash argument to begin with because from my perspective, button mashing means the person playing isn't really interested in exploring or experiencing the game in a meaningful way to begin with and might as well play something else. I mean, you can also mash in a fighting game but that ultimately goes against the grain of what was intended by the developer.

The boss fights in the GOW franchise have been anything but unimaginative; actually, I'd assert the contrary: they've been downright inventive and the only valid criticism I could levy against them is their ease. As for the platforming elements, puzzles and timed tasks, again, I think they are generally very well crafted and play accordingly. I think there is a reason why this franchise gets so much respect and I certainly don't feel it's due to it being overrated, especially when you consider how many other top notch action franchises and games occupy the market. I do agree that certain games offer better core combat, including DMC, Ninja Gaiden, and even Bayonetta, but as a whole, when you consider narrative, presentation and gameplay, the GOW games deserve all of the accolades they receive because they are well rounded and polished endeavors.

And honestly, if GOW deserves a score in the 7-8 range then Dante's Inferno is at best a solid 5, especially when you consider how derivative it is of GOW.UpInFlames

The button-mashing argument to me means that mindlessly mashing on buttons is a legitimate gameplay strategy. Sure, you can mash buttons in Ninja Gaiden or Dead or Alive, but you won't get anywhere. You will lose. You cannot button-mash your way through those games. Button mashing will get you to the very end of God of War (and to drive the point home, Mortal Kombat).

God of War's puzzles are fine, I never complained about those. I truly hated the platforming elements which were basic and crude. They also destroyed the pacing thanks to their extreme reliance on trial and error (and more often than not, dumb luck) as well as being surprisingly unforgiving in an otherwise easy, fast-paced game. As for the timed tasks, well, timed tasks just universally suck as far as I'm concerned, but those found in God of War came off as particularly annoying.

I think God of War owes most of its appeal to the stellar presentation. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The gameplay is more than adequate. I just can't understand this downplaying of Dante's Inferno as if God of War is so obviously superior. Dante's Inferno ain't no Saints Row and God of War sure as hell ain't no Grand Theft Auto. :P

When you refer to platforming in GOW, are talking about the segments where Kratos traverses the sides of cliffs and climbs ropes? Because honestly, those segments played well and still do in my opinion. Personally, I never found anything in either game that struck me as trial-and-error and it certainly didn't ruin the pacing; I would actually assert that in terms of pacing, GOW and GOWII are two of the best examples of pacing done correctly.

Also, the notion that GOW owes its success to the game's visual prowess doesn't really hold much water considering that by the time the first game hit, we had titles like NG that were technically far superior. To be honest, I always thought the graphical quality of the first two games was a bit overrated given how blurry and low-res everything looked, which is why the recent GOW collection offers up such a great treat for those of us who wanted to see these games optimized. Regardless, I think the gameplay holds up rather well where by contrast what I played in the DI demo felt a bit stiff and lacked any of the flourishes or fluidity of the combat found in GOW. I know you want to drive home the notion that the GOW franchise is overrated but honestly, I think you just happen to be an anomaly because just about every other action enthusiast I know thinks it's a great series, even if the combat isn't as deep as something like DMC or NG.

Lastly, you can button mash your way through DOA unless you seek out higher levels of play. You can also up the difficultyin any of the GOW games and then discover rapidly that button mashing will get you killed.

P.S. That was a cheap shot bringing up Saint's Row 2…I loathe that game and for the record, respective genres aside, I think DI is a hell of a lot better than SR2.;)

So you want to ignore a lack of progress and embrace unimaginative mediocrity? Fair enough. Like I said, I'm a Visceral fan who thought that Dante's Inferno would be to God of War what Dead Space was to RE4. Sadly, all they made is a pale imitation.

Given your professed contempt for GoW (the reasons you cite aren't true, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you in this and other threads, but obviously nothing is going to change your mind) I don't understand why you are apologizing for ainferior knockoff.CarnageHeart

If I was ignoring lack of progress I'd be singing Inferno's praises which I am not. I'm not even 100% sure I'll be picking it up and if I do, it'll have to be heavily discounted. Quite the opposite, I think God of War fans are the ones ignoring lack of progress.

I don't hate God of War, but it really has no place among the greatest the genre has to offer. Everything I say I am basing on my own experiences with God of War which I have played and finished. Maybe your experiences were different, but I can't base my opinion on your experiences.

When you refer to platforming in GOW, are talking about the segments where Kratos traverses the sides of cliffs and climbs ropes? Because honestly, those segments played well and still do in my opinion. Personally, I never found anything in either game that struck me as trial-and-error and it certainly didn't ruin the pacing; I would actually assert that in terms of pacing, GOW and GOWII are two of the best examples of pacing done correctly.

Also, the notion that GOW owes its success to the game's visual prowess doesn't really hold much water considering that by the time the first game hit, we had titles like NG that were technically far superior. To be honest, I always thought the graphical quality of the first two games was a bit overrated given how blurry and low-res everything looked, which is why the recent GOW collection offers up such a great treat for those of us who wanted to see these games optimized. Regardless, I think the gameplay holds up rather well where by contrast what I played in the DI demo felt a bit stiff and lacked any of the flourishes or fluidity of the combat found in GOW. I know you want to drive home the notion that the GOW franchise is overrated but honestly, I think you just happen to be an anomaly because just about every other action enthusiast I know thinks it's a great series, even if the combat isn't as deep as something like DMC or NG.

Lastly, you can button mash your way through DOA unless you seek out higher levels of play. You can also up the difficultyin any of the GOW games and then discover rapidly that button mashing will get you killed.

P.S. That was a cheap shot bringing up Saint's Row 2…I loathe that game and for the record, respective genres aside, I think DI is a hell of a lot better than SR2.;)Grammaton-Cleric

I mean those segments when Kratos is in hell towards the end of the game. He has to climb up or cross over turning cilinders with spikes which either impale or send him falling to certain death. God, I hated that crap.

When I said presentation I meant graphics, soundtrack, effects, voice acting, storytelling, sense of styIe...all that jazz.

As for Dead or Alive, if we're talking about single-player campaign, no button-mashing can beat Tengu (I deliberately won't use the DOA4 boss because unlike Tengu--in Ultimate--who was tough but fair, the Kasumi clone was just cheap and lame). If we're talking about multiplayer, a button-masher will never beat a player who knows the combat system (in Mortal Kombat a match between a button masher and an experienced player can at any time go either way).

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]So you want to ignore a lack of progress and embrace unimaginative mediocrity? Fair enough. Like I said, I'm a Visceral fan who thought that Dante's Inferno would be to God of War what Dead Space was to RE4. Sadly, all they made is a pale imitation.

Given your professed contempt for GoW (the reasons you cite aren't true, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you in this and other threads, but obviously nothing is going to change your mind) I don't understand why you are apologizing for ainferior knockoff.UpInFlames

If I was ignoring lack of progress I'd be singing Inferno's praises which I am not. I'm not even 100% sure I'll be picking it up and if I do, it'll have to be heavily discounted. Quite the opposite, I think God of War fans are the ones ignoring lack of progress.

I don't hate God of War, but it really has no place among the greatest the genre has to offer. Everything I say I am basing on my own experiences with God of War which I have played and finished. Maybe your experiences were different, but I can't base my opinion on your experiences.

Given your comments, you seem to have played only one game in the series. So what are you basing your 'lack of progress' argument on?

Given your comments, you seem to have played only one game in the series. So what are you basing your 'lack of progress' argument on?CarnageHeart

God of War itself wasn't a progressive action game.

I suspected somebody might raise this point. However, I myself already considered it and it doesn't apply. Why? Because this genre hasn't moved at all for a long time now. Because the bar was raised extremely high SIX years ago. So gushing over God of War five years ago or five days ago doesn't make any difference. Gushing over Call of Duty back in 2003 and gushing over it now...that's a different matter because since 2003 we've had genre-defining games such as Half-Life 2 and Crysis. Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry 3 are still widely regarded as the best this genre has offered and they both came out before God of War did.

UpInFlames

Well, I dont play much action games.... not a fan of DMC or NG, so I cant comment on whether the action genre has evolved or not. But like dvader said, GOW2 is an action adventure title, and since DI is a shameless ripoff of GOW2, we can assume that DI is also an Action Adventure title. So my point does apply. :)

Where exactly have I said that Dante's Inferno should get a free pass?

UIF

Okay, but you are apologizing for DI's mediocrity by bringing up the gameplay of a five year old game. Do I have this right?

I see a lot of clone-o-phobes on this thread.

So what if DI is heavily influenced, no, inspired, by the GoW series? I haven't played the DI demo as of yet, so I can't base this on my own experiences, so I won't even bother bringing up the topic of DI being a "pale imitation" or "progressive" (although from the trailers I've seen it looks quite similar to GoW).

As for the GoW III Demo, it really has improved upon GoW II. The combat was smoother, button sequences in the boss fights were improved upon, and hell that portion where you fly upwards while dodging the falling obstacles was pure bliss.

As for DI, I don't mind if it seeks to imitate GoW. If anything I like it, the competition will be beneficial.

If anything I like it, the competition will be beneficial.

Bobzfamily

Yes. If DI sucked (and I think it's safe to say it doesn't), being a "clone" would make it even worse, but this is not the case. I don't see any harm in trying to make a good game that is based on similar mechanics as a previous excellent one. This has been done over and over before. Originality can be an important factor in a game's reception and ratings, but it's not the dominant one. If it would be, 90% of all games would have ratings below 5. DI is an agreeable game, it may not surpass GoW and GoW3 standard probably will remain GoW2 (besides graphics of course), but that's ok. Not every good game can be the best.

So what if DI is heavily influenced, no, inspired, by the GoW series?Bobzfamily

[QUOTE="Bobzfamily"]So what if DI is heavily influenced, no, inspired, by the GoW series?ViewtifulScott

I couldn't believe it when it told me to 'Hold the Triangle button to push the enemies in the air'. :lol:

To Bobzfamily: Even the light and heavy attacks are mapped to the exact same buttons. Using L1 with either square or traingle will do the special attacks. Magic attacks work the same way too. Fountains are used to recharge health. I could go on and on.

Whoa, this game is starting to get a lot of hate here!

Personally, I still want to play it more for the presentation than the gameplay, which is similar to God of War. I odn't play God of War because I think the combat is fun, because if that was the reason why, I would go play DMC3 or something, a game that God of War borrowed quite a bit from itself. I play it for huge set-pieces and stuff like that. The gameplay videos I've seen of Dante's Inferno makes it seem like it will be similar in that regard where the bosses are just nuts and Dante will murder things in the most crazy ways possible. Really, I was laughing out loud when Dante comes up to famous sinners in Hell and murders them.

Really, this game looks like it will be okay at the worst. I'm going to end up playing this AND God of War 3. We don't have to pick sides on this one, it is possible to like both of them!

Whoa, this game is starting to get a lot of hate here!

Personally, I still want to play it more for the presentation than the gameplay, which is similar to God of War. I odn't play God of War because I think the combat is fun, because if that was the reason why, I would go play DMC3 or something, a game that God of War borrowed quite a bit from itself. I play it for huge set-pieces and stuff like that. The gameplay videos I've seen of Dante's Inferno makes it seem like it will be similar in that regard where the bosses are just nuts and Dante will murder things in the most crazy ways possible. Really, I was laughing out loud when Dante comes up to famous sinners in Hell and murders them.

Really, this game looks like it will be okay at the worst. I'm going to end up playing this AND God of War 3. We don't have to pick sides on this one, it is possible to like both of them!

AtomicTangerine

Like I've said before, I was optimistic about DI (and GoW3) up until I played DI's demo. I play games for the gameplay/game design, and DI's is weak.

I said earlier in the thread I wanted DI to do well because I like Visceral and want them to continue making games, but someone on the Neogaf pointed out a big chunk of Visceral's key people were now with Activision (something I read a while ago but had forgotten), so perhaps all the talented people are gone (now I'm a little worried about Dead Space 2).

Whoa, this game is starting to get a lot of hate here!

Personally, I still want to play it more for the presentation than the gameplay, which is similar to God of War. I odn't play God of War because I think the combat is fun, because if that was the reason why, I would go play DMC3 or something, a game that God of War borrowed quite a bit from itself. I play it for huge set-pieces and stuff like that. The gameplay videos I've seen of Dante's Inferno makes it seem like it will be similar in that regard where the bosses are just nuts and Dante will murder things in the most crazy ways possible. Really, I was laughing out loud when Dante comes up to famous sinners in Hell and murders them.

Really, this game looks like it will be okay at the worst. I'm going to end up playing this AND God of War 3. We don't have to pick sides on this one, it is possible to like both of them!

AtomicTangerine

[QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

Whoa, this game is starting to get a lot of hate here!

Personally, I still want to play it more for the presentation than the gameplay, which is similar to God of War. I odn't play God of War because I think the combat is fun, because if that was the reason why, I would go play DMC3 or something, a game that God of War borrowed quite a bit from itself. I play it for huge set-pieces and stuff like that. The gameplay videos I've seen of Dante's Inferno makes it seem like it will be similar in that regard where the bosses are just nuts and Dante will murder things in the most crazy ways possible. Really, I was laughing out loud when Dante comes up to famous sinners in Hell and murders them.

Really, this game looks like it will be okay at the worst. I'm going to end up playing this AND God of War 3. We don't have to pick sides on this one, it is possible to like both of them!

ASK_Story

Inbetween the improved controls, the dismemberment and the zero G, Dead Space was very much its own game.

[QUOTE="ASK_Story"][QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

Whoa, this game is starting to get a lot of hate here!

Personally, I still want to play it more for the presentation than the gameplay, which is similar to God of War. I odn't play God of War because I think the combat is fun, because if that was the reason why, I would go play DMC3 or something, a game that God of War borrowed quite a bit from itself. I play it for huge set-pieces and stuff like that. The gameplay videos I've seen of Dante's Inferno makes it seem like it will be similar in that regard where the bosses are just nuts and Dante will murder things in the most crazy ways possible. Really, I was laughing out loud when Dante comes up to famous sinners in Hell and murders them.

Really, this game looks like it will be okay at the worst. I'm going to end up playing this AND God of War 3. We don't have to pick sides on this one, it is possible to like both of them!

CarnageHeart

Inbetween the improved controls, the dismemberment and the zero G, Dead Space was very much its own game.

I just finished the game up tonight and posted a review on here of it. I give it a solid 8. The game is fun and I had a good time playing it. I honestly don't understand why people keep saying GoW this, GoW that. If you enjoy playing video games then get both. I sold my PS3, so the choice was easy for me, but any real gamer doesn't complain about this game and that game copying or being better. Just play them for what they are.

Well, I dont play much action games.... not a fan of DMC or NG, so I cant comment on whether the action genre has evolved or not. But like dvader said, GOW2 is an action adventure title, and since DI is a shameless ripoff of GOW2, we can assume that DI is also an Action Adventure title. So my point does apply. :)S0lidSnake

I would cIassify Ninja Gaiden as an action/adventure game as well. However, in direct comparisons, game design is the most important thing, not necessarily the genre. Grand Theft Auto and Uncharted are both action/adventure games and Dragon Age and The Elder Scrolls are both RPG's, but they are not directly comparable. Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden and God of War are directly comparable.

Okay, but you are apologizing for DI's mediocrity by bringing up the gameplay of a five year old game. Do I have this right?S0lidSnake

No, I'm trying to point out that the highly esteemed God of War had pretty much the same faults as Dante's Inferno and nobody seemed to care. I cared about those faults five years ago and I care about them today. That's why I gave God of War a 7.5 when I played it five years ago and why I said that the 7-8 score range sounds about right for Dante's Inferno.

From the Edge review:

The systems it bases its world upon are undeniably robust, and the levelling metagame is engaging, but the execution in play feels routine, and its platforming aspects throw up too many instant and infuriating deaths. As with all entries in this genre, the highlights are the boss battles, which in drawing from the most potent of Catholic nightmares and featuring famous sinners from history provide the game's standout moments. But in the wider context, Dante's Inferno fails to rise above its peers, the punishment for which is not damnation, merely a place in limbo.

This is endemic of what I'm talking about. If I didn't know better, I'd have sworn he was describing God of War. Well, not really since God of War didn't have an engaging leveling metagame and its boss battles were definitely not its highlights - the Hydra was great, but the bull thing and Ares were meh. You are the one apologizing for God of War, if it was truly such a great game, its age would be irrelevant - especially considering that games of its type haven't evolved at all (and it's not that old to begin with). Ninja Gaiden is an older game and it's still one of the best action games ever made. Half-Life 2 is six years old and it still schools almost all FPSs today.

Ninja Gaiden is an older game and it's still one of the best action games ever made.

UpInFlames

Ninja Gaiden had great graphics (best of the generation IMHO), played well and some incredible setpieces, but it was sloppy in many respects. Difficultywise, its like someone threw a brilliant action game into a blender. Inbetween the horsemen and Alma, there were lots of bosses and midbosses, none of whom were particularly challenging. The camera (arguably the deadliest enemy in NG) could have used a lot of work. Stuff that gamers looked past (NG was the second competent DMC **** game) in 2004 would be less acceptable now.

The reviews don't phase me at all - I enjoyed the DE demo more than I enjoyed the GOW3 demo so that's good enough for me.

And GoW2 is still one of the best action/adventure games to ever come out and most people will not argue that. Again, GoW2 has a far greater mix of setpieces where its not about combat and it has better puzzles, it became a game that did not feel like DMC/NG at all. There are no chapters, its not a game where you get ranked on your combat ability. The entire game is not about getting to the next room to fight enemies. DMC/NG never go outside the main controls, you fight everything the same way, you go through the whole game with just your combat abilities and nothing more. GoW2 has many moments where you are in a totally different gameplay situation, you aren't just controlling Kratos, you aren't fighting enemies with your combos, there is varied gameplay. I don't consider GoW2 to be the best action game, but I do feel it is better than any DMC or NG game.dvader654

I'm not talking about God of War II.

Still, I went ahead and watched GameSpot's video review out of pure interest and lo and behold, Alex Navarro (a HUGE God of War fan) states multiple times that the sequel is extremely similar to the original and that the combat hasn't changed in any capacity (a direct quote). He even goes on to say that it's a bit button-mashy. So yeah, I am very reserved towards this notion that God of War II was so much different. But I fully acknowledge the fact that I cannot claim one way or the other since I never played it. That's why I don't talk about it.

Stuff that gamers looked past (NG was the second competent DMC **** game) in 2004 would be less acceptable now.CarnageHeart

I replayed it last year. So awesome. :)

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]Well, I dont play much action games.... not a fan of DMC or NG, so I cant comment on whether the action genre has evolved or not. But like dvader said, GOW2 is an action adventure title, and since DI is a shameless ripoff of GOW2, we can assume that DI is also an Action Adventure title. So my point does apply. :)UpInFlames

I would cIassify Ninja Gaiden as an action/adventure game as well. However, in direct comparisons, game design is the most important thing, not necessarily the genre. Grand Theft Auto and Uncharted are both action/adventure games and Dragon Age and The Elder Scrolls are both RPG's, but they are not directly comparable. Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden and God of War are directly comparable.

Okay, but you are apologizing for DI's mediocrity by bringing up the gameplay of a five year old game. Do I have this right?S0lidSnake

No, I'm trying to point out that the highly esteemed God of War had pretty much the same faults as Dante's Inferno and nobody seemed to care. I cared about those faults five years ago and I care about them today. That's why I gave God of War a 7.5 when I played it five years ago and why I said that the 7-8 score range sounds about right for Dante's Inferno.

From the Edge review:

The systems it bases its world upon are undeniably robust, and the levelling metagame is engaging, but the execution in play feels routine, and its platforming aspects throw up too many instant and infuriating deaths. As with all entries in this genre, the highlights are the boss battles, which in drawing from the most potent of Catholic nightmares and featuring famous sinners from history provide the game's standout moments. But in the wider context, Dante's Inferno fails to rise above its peers, the punishment for which is not damnation, merely a place in limbo.

This is endemic of what I'm talking about. If I didn't know better, I'd have sworn he was describing God of War. Well, not really since God of War didn't have an engaging leveling metagame and its boss battles were definitely not its highlights - the Hydra was great, but the bull thing and Ares were meh. You are the one apologizing for God of War, if it was truly such a great game, its age would be irrelevant - especially considering that games of its type haven't evolved at all (and it's not that old to begin with). Ninja Gaiden is an older game and it's still one of the best action games ever made. Half-Life 2 is six years old and it still schools almost all FPSs today.

I actually didn't care much for GOW1 when it came out. Didnt even bother to finish it. Heck, I didn't even try GOW2 till summer of last year, so no I am not defending GOW1 here. I am merely saying GOW the series has evolved since GOW1. and GOW2 was a ****ing masterpiece. And since DI is a shameless ripoff of GOW the series, if you HAVE to compare it to a game in the series, compare it with the latest one, GOW2, not the first game in the series. If you're saying DI's problems sound like GOW1's, you are merely proving my point. GOW1 was outcIassed by GOW2, and going by your logic, DI was outcIassed by GOW2 a good three years ago.

GOW2 doesnt have many instant or infuriating deaths. Heck, I dont think it has any. The gameplay in GOW2 feels hardly routine or stagnant, you are always given enough incentive by the story to keep pressing forward. The devs throw all these crazy boss battles at you and switch up the gameplay pretty fast. According to the Edge review, DI also has some good boss battles which is good enough for me. TBH, I am very interested to experience the "Hell" they've created. From the setpieces I have seen in the vids, I am sure to enjoy this game. I would've enjoyed it more if it wasn't a shameless GOW ripoff, but I will play it just to experience the spectacle. My main issue here is with you completely disregarding GOW2, and comparing this game to GOW1 saying stuff like the genre hasn't evolved since 2005 or 2004.... when GOW2 BROKE the freaking genre three years ago.

when GOW2 BROKE the freaking genre three years ago.S0lidSnake

I talk about games that I have played, obviously. I don't understand how can you expect me to talk about God of War II. And with that kind of obvious hyperbole, you'll have a hard time winning me over.

If you are agreeing with my summary of God of War then I consider the matter closed because I cannot and will not talk about God of War II (and I never have).

EDITED.

I dont wanna waste more time, and getting angry over silly stuff like this.