Destiny producer says the game starts at level 20

@The_Last_Ride: That should be 30 bucks of the price. most people get bored to death by the time they would get to Lvl 20.

@The_Last_Ride

Looks and Sounds heavily padded.

I just hit level 20 I think the game is great. I don't see why so many people don't like it.

Why? There isn't any subscription and there's enough stuff to do after lvl 20

Nah, it isn't

Gotta say the game looks kind of repetitive and bullet spongy. It also seems to be content starved. The gameplay may be great and all but it needs more stuff for it to hold my attention.

@The_Last_Ride

I'm pretty sure Lost Planet 2's got more features then Destiny.

@Lulu_Lulu: No, it just makes people give more effort in order to obtain that better gear. Complacency implies they'll be happy with what they own now, which isn't at all what's going on, at least with me and my clan.

LOL, no... It doesn't have strikes, Raids, and over 5 different pvp modes, also there are heroics, dailies, weekly that you can do. So i seriously doubt it

@The_Last_Ride

Its got a Wide selection of Equipment.... Each one specializing in some, each one unique.... You don't drop your old Shotgun when the game unlocks a new one..... It doesn't string you along with a level up system and gear that comes and goes..... Its well balanced...... MMO's aren't known for their balance.

@mastermetal777

Complacency implies as they get better gear the game requires less skill, easily fixed by adding tougher enemies which inturn reignites the desire for better gear....

Its a vicious circle where few new mechanics are introduced, if any at all. I'm all for grind just don't like being baited into doing it....

@Lulu_Lulu: Nah, the enemies are hard even with better gear. It just means less time waiting on your abilities to be useful. It doesn't mean the enemies won't rip you apart, which happens quite often even with the most skilled players.

@mastermetal777

So skill is useless ?

@Lulu_Lulu: No, I said the opposite of that. Skill is necessary for this game as gear doesn't always mean you'll be stronger. Just don't expect the game to go easy on you for being more skilled and have better gear. It will always challenge your skill no matter what

What...?

@The_Last_Ride

I stop making sense when I'm exhausted....

@Lulu_Lulu: Stop? When did you start in the first place?

@mastermetal777

You said even the most skilled players get torn apart..... I'm assuming skill doesn't play as high a role as it should......

Destiny however does have the advantage of not being influenced by payment models, since is its not a subscription thing or Free To Play the developers don't need to bend the progression system and other features to squeeze cash from its players.... I wonder what the DLC will be like though ?

@Lulu_Lulu: It does, it just requires a little extra thinking and actual teamwork. Let me put it to you this way: playing solo is like playing Dark Souls. Sure, you can make it through missions with a victory, but your balls are gonna be plastered to the wall a few times before that happens. With a fireteam, it becomes the enemies balls getting plastered. The game relies heavily on online co-op to get through the tough segments, even though they're still doable (with some critical thinking) while playing alone. That being said, there are modes, like Strikes and the Raid, that are designed to be tough even for a full squad, and are designed for people to be tactical using communication and FPS skill.

@mastermetal777

You lost me at "its like playing Dark Souls". :(

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense... I'm saying its too much for my brain right now.

I'm not really enjoying it at lvl 20. I keep grinding to get the best armors and I ask myself why? They make no difference in PvP and the missions you unlock at higher levels are just the same Shit you played before, except now the monsters are harder to kill. That's saying something since they were already bullet sponges to begin with.

@Lulu_Lulu: I only meant in terms of difficulty, not in play style. And it's a legit challenge, unless you still haven't played Dark Souls. If that's the case, don't even start.

@mastermetal777

Does playing 5 minutes of Dark Souls count ?

Does the game get more difficult in other ways besides the enemies gaining more health? Between your ability, melee and infinite grenades the game doesn't seem like it would ever get difficult. The Beta was a breeze solo.

Negative

?

@firefox59: The enemies are about twice as aggressive in their firing power, as well as trying to overwhelm you. Their health doesn't change, but if they're a few levels above you, you get a damage reduction penalty against them of 20% for each level above you they are. Their tactics change as well, as they're more likely to take cover, run away from you (usually to an ambush), and have better shielding, as well as charge you in numbers. They become a lot smarter instead of tougher.

@Lulu_Lulu No. 5 minutes doesn't give you the full Dark Souls experience. That's just the Asylum, which is the tutorial for the game. It's there to teach you how to play so that the rest of the game is more manageable.

@mastermetal777

I can put the rest together through youtoob videos....

That does'nt seem to be the case though. It just drones on with the worst aspects of other MMOs.

Edit: I was close to paragon 500 when I quit Diablo 3, I know what they mean.

@Lulu_Lulu: Still not enough. Tell you what: I'll consider your Dark Souls opinion at least somewhat valid if you make it past the 30 hour mark.

@mastermetal777

Don't consider my oppinion at all.... Consider his:

kotaku.com/the-argument-that-dark-souls-ii-is-terrible-1568751704

You're an Aspiring young Game Designer right ? You telling me you wouldn't recognize adding Damage Sponges is just a bad idea without playing it for 30 hours....

You know whats going to happen when specific elements come together, atleast I hope you do. But then again its difficult to say since you don't prioritise gameplay like I do.

@Lulu_Lulu: And again, I do prioritize gameplay. Such arguments boil down to opinions, and the enemies in Dark Souls aren't very spongey in terms of damage, unlike in games like Devil May Cry and God of War (the definitions of fake difficulty). Dark Souls is less about damage and more about timing with attacks and dodging. Trust me, after actually playing for 40+hours, I can say this as fact.

And as for that article, it's a positive article about Dark Souls, arguing that even though people find faults, it's still an opinion that one person has. It talks about the teaching method behind the first Dark Souls, which it can be a bit overwhelming at first (it doesn't hold your hand one bit throughout). You learn on your own through the game teaching you how about how it operates instead of a lengthy, unnecessary tutorial (consider the Asylum your prologue rather than a tutorial). I don't see anything that talks about damage sponge enemies, so you're either a little misinformed or we both read a different article than what you posted.

Idk, that all just sounds iffy to me. Scaling enemy AI based upon your level seemed like it would be weird to balance and lacking enough variety to make a noticeable difference level to level. There is only so much you can do with calculations and percentages which is what all of this would be based upon. Enemy x attacks or takes cover based on variable a, b and c and things like that etc.

Besides the enemies in the AI took cover in the beta A LOT. Most of the times I had to chase them down and then just hit them in the face before they could react. Enemies becoming stronger offensively is nothing new. I mean I'm sure there is a difference from early to end game but your character also becomes stronger as well. It just seems to me that it isn't enough to prevent the gameplay from becoming stale.

@firefox59: It doesn't, trust me. The higher level enemies quickly become unpredictable in their movement patterns, and even dodge your attacks more often as well as get brave and charge you.

@mastermetal777

your so called "Fact" lost its credibility in only 5 minutes of the tutorial....

Your so called "Fact" is debunked by the occasional "Help me I'm stuck in Dark Souls" type of threads that keep popping, many of them not sure if they're doing something wrong or if they simply don't have high enough stats or a specific resource.

Its no different than any other game that bases its difficult on bloated stats and shitty save system.....

Its true though, DMC does also have damage sponges and hard hitters but the big difference is I never have to be concerned about going back and farming up more XP to upgrade something that shouldve been balanced and usefull in the 1st place.

Theres nothing more annoying than using the right strategy and yet losing because of stats.

@Lulu_Lulu: My "fact" is based on my experience with the game. It's a fact to me since I actually took the time to play it unlike you. You of all people should know that watching a YouTube video is the experience of that particular person. You can't truly judge a game unless you play it yourself, something you seem to avoid with almost every game you criticize.

Dark Souls doesn't revolve around stats, it revolves around equipment. There's a difference. The only reason people lose in Dark Souls is because they overlooked an enemy pattern or the environment or they went to an area where their current armor and weapon isn't cutting it. Some equipment is better than others, and that's as realistic as you can get with anything. It's like that in real life, and it's like that in this game. Stats are just a way to justify it for the sake of video games. Numbers are always gonna be important. Start studying.

You just hate anything that makes you have to actually work for your progress instead of it being handed to you. That's okay, you can like those games. Just let people like what they like and stop patronizing their choices.

I find destiny at lvl 20 is more pointless and boring than anything else. By now you seen the entire game. in order to lvl up you need to get better loot. So you re run the same areas over and over and hope for better drops. once you acquired a good piece of loot, you run the same areas again and again for materials to lvl your items up. I find running around earth trying to find shimmer weed spawns like a easter egg hunt, pointless and a waste of time and just boring as hell.

Once you do get better gear, you can then fight the same enemies at higher lvl to thus get better gear and then higher lvl enemies. It's a continuous cycle with no point. If you like getting loot cool, but for me it isn't enough. Higher lvl items only hit higher lvl enemies. On top of that the areas are small and few. you could probably beat the game in 10 hours.

It's not bullet spongy at all. I can clear a whole room of similarly leveled enemies with one clip from my AR if my aim is on. Same with a hand cannon. Borderlands was bullet spongy. Some of bosses in strikes can take awhile without the right weapons and that's actually going to be patched this week, though I don't see the need, personally. But everything else you said is right. It's repetitive and short on content for the style of game that it is.

@mastermetal777

Actually with Destiny I didn't even bother with Youtoob..... Its an MMO, what would be the point ?

As for Dark Souls, equipment stats can be modified and upgraded or enchanted or whatever mumbo jumbo hurdle they put in front of you to make the weapon even Remotely usefull.... Against a boss, I'm sure it does just fine against cannon fodder skeletons..... I notice when I said Level Up, people just use the character is different from equipment excuse so I just squeeze them all into the same Category.... STATS ! :p

anyway You finaly admit it:

"The only reason people lose in Dark Souls is because..... they went to an area where their current armor and weapon isn't cutting it."

I mean thats been the centre of my beef with Dark Souls, was that really so damn hard ? All that time wasted.

Oh wait... One more:

"You just hate anything that makes you have to actually work for your progress instead of it being handed to you."

I don't hate hard work, I hate tedious work, The Types of Games I play don't ask me to grind to improve stats, they ask my to practice to master the mechanics, like a fighting game..... Theres no way around it, you have to work hard to get bettet at the game, not work repetetively to get better stats, theres no grinding, no looting, literally nothing you can do to but get better at mastering the tools you are given. That my friend is Real Hard Work, your version of hardwork revolves around getting better tools, and if it was tools like in Batman then hell yeah, bring it ! But nope, its just numbers.

I would disagree with that

I played the game and enjoyed it till I realised just how short it was and started to feel the missions were all the same. Once I hit 20 the game ground to a halt and I am currently level 28 and am basically never going to touch it again.

Getting legendaries is only fun till you realise the only way to get them is to grind the same tedious missions over and over and when you get full legendary what then? You get it, equip it, level it up and then nothing. What are we supposed to do? Go out and get more legendaries? Pointless game.

There isn't even a leaderboard in the Crucible to give you an incentive to keep playing to crawl up the ranks.

@The_Last_Ride: Actually at level 20 is where it stops being fun, because you have to repeat everything you did from 1-20 over and over :( I had more fun from 1-20 then 20+.

I would disagree, but it's your opinion