Does the west create the more believable characters?

It is a subjectively ideal.

Also it just western have their own tropes that their characters fall into. It less about what is real and more about what you are more willing to accept as being more believable.

Well, theres far more western games being developed than Japanese ones. By simple nature, you're going to have more western titles (of varying quality) and some will have excellent examples of characters.

Even so, Japanese games tend to focus more on narrative and story-telling compared to character development.

It is hard to compare character when side needs to go through the translation.

There are games like Silent Hill 2 which feature characters that are eminently relatable (at least to me). That's a game that i've come to appreciate more and more over the years, especially after my experiences taking care of a terminally ill loved one.

But then there are games like MGS. Actually in the PS MGS game, the characters had a western action movie vibe, including Snake, who coincidentally was based on a western action character acted by Kurt Russell. I enjoyed the game very much and found the characters enjoyable in that popcorn-movie sort of way. Then came MGS2 and the "anime-ification" of MGS. We go from Sniper Wolf to fatman on roller skates. You just lost me. Almost everything that goes the anime route, there's an immediate disconnect with me and I quite frankly don't want to play it anymore.

So, it's more of a stylistic decision than cultural, to me. I've seen my share of japanese films and have no problem relating to the characters therein.

So basically, Commander Shepard or Cloud... Im going to go with Shep.

Edit* Just making it clear that I am aware that this thread isnt about any 2 specific characters. I just used the ones that popped in my head first. Also, this isnt constant. Like the guy above me, MGS characters are some of my favorites.

Well I can relate more to the wests characters than most of the over the top, hyperactive, huge sword weilding, crazy teen characters in Japan.

What, specifically, are you referring to? The characters in the MGS series, for example, are very well defined and the stories work well. Perhaps if you compare specific characters it will add clarity to your comment.capaho

Kojima's MGS are the exception, he is totally into the story and character development and influenced by western movies. Compared to other japanese marque like Final fantasy, it was not important for characters to develope.

Well I can relate more to the wests characters than most of the over the top, hyperactive, huge sword weilding, crazy teen characters in Japan.

Goyoshi12

What, specifically, are you referring to? The characters in the MGS series, for example, are very well defined and the stories work well. Perhaps if you compare specific characters it will add clarity to your comment.capaho

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

Well I can relate more to the wests characters than most of the over the top, hyperactive, huge sword weilding, crazy teen characters in Japan.

Lulekani

[QUOTE="Lulekani"][QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

Well I can relate more to the wests characters than most of the over the top, hyperactive, huge sword weilding, crazy teen characters in Japan.

Blabadon

[QUOTE="Blabadon"][QUOTE="Lulekani"] Comicly Large weapons and gay lookin anime characters make me weak in the knees.Lulekani

[QUOTE="Lulekani"][QUOTE="Blabadon"]That makes you the problem, not the characters.Blabadon

Japanese game characters are always either a half-naked schoolgirl or a popular dude. And plus the voice acting is bad. I won't say that Japanese games are bad, it's just that the characters are almost always bad. I like the stories but the characters just ruin it.

i don't think so. just as a recent example, i played ni no kuni this year. in terms of how the characters were developed, it was very conventional (mostly through cut-scenes) so the methods were pretty comparable to what you might see in a random western console game. however, it had some little details that kept the tone even like little asides from the guide character that informed you that were basically putting enemies in timeout when you defeat them rather slaying them mercilessly. it just would have been weird to have these kids killing heaps of critters (and occasionally serenading one :lol: ). it would have been especially weird for the main character, oliver, who is trying to come to grips with his mother's death.

Looks like some people really need to play some persona games. (fantastic realistic characters)

I love mgs(actually my favorite series) but that scene with meryl and johnny was horrible.

I think theres realistic characters in both the west and east but on both sides its usually a minority.

many characters in the west go for a hollywood feel(unrealistic usually)

many characters in the east go for a anime feel(unrealistic usually)

What do consider the West and what not?

Well I can relate more to the wests characters than most of the over the top, hyperactive, huge sword weilding, crazy teen characters in Japan.

Goyoshi12

Gamer demographics are quite different between Japan and the US.  The age range for gamers in the US is quite broad, with the average age being somewhere in the mid-40s.  Japanese gaming, on the other hand, is dominated by students as gaming by adults is frowned upon in Japan, it's considered childish folly for adults.  Games intended primarily for the Japanese market copy the art style of Japanese manga, as does much of Japanese anime, thus the similarities in character design.  Huge, sword weilding, crazy teen characters dominate Japanese games because teens dominate the market for games in Japan.

[QUOTE="capaho"]What, specifically, are you referring to? The characters in the MGS series, for example, are very well defined and the stories work well. Perhaps if you compare specific characters it will add clarity to your comment.atleticlover

I suppose such matters always come down to individual preferences.  The MGS series has its flaws, as do all the others, and some of the dialog in MGS follows along the same pattern as that of a dippy manga fantasy, but the characters in the MGS series are some of the best designed characters to be found anywhere in the gaming world, IMHO.  Few games can hold their own in terms of the overall quality of the gaming experience as well as the MGS series does.

[QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

Well I can relate more to the wests characters than most of the over the top, hyperactive, huge sword weilding, crazy teen characters in Japan.

Lulekani

Then you should be able to appreciate the subtle homoerotic undercurrent in MGS.

[QUOTE="atleticlover"][QUOTE="capaho"]What, specifically, are you referring to? The characters in the MGS series, for example, are very well defined and the stories work well. Perhaps if you compare specific characters it will add clarity to your comment.capaho

I suppose such matters always come down to individual preferences.  The MGS series has its flaws, as do all the others, and some of the dialog in MGS follows along the same pattern as that of a dippy manga fantasy, but the characters in the MGS series are some of the best designed characters to be found anywhere in the gaming world, IMHO.  Few games can hold their own in terms of the overall quality of the gaming experience as well as the MGS series does.

[QUOTE="Lulekani"][QUOTE="Goyoshi12"]

Well I can relate more to the wests characters than most of the over the top, hyperactive, huge sword weilding, crazy teen characters in Japan.

capaho

Then you should be able to appreciate the subtle homoerotic undercurrent in MGS.

Lol, if only my shortlist wasn't so long, The MGS HD collection would've been my next purchase this year, ironicaly After I get Vanquish and Naruto Shippuden UNS:G, I'l be getting MGR.Lulekani

I bought the MGS HD collection a while back because I really enjoyed MGS 4 and wanted to play the preceding three to see what I had missed.  Playing them in the chronological order of the story (rather than by release date) really helped clarify the story that was a bit difficult to follow in MGS 4 without knowing the background from the previous three games.  It's one of my favorite series.

Yes. Japan has yet to graduate from the spikey hair/school girl character design school. Some PC/Western developers have learned how to do beautiful art. Japan has yet to pick up anything from them which is to their own detriment now that Japan is no longer the center of videogame development.

Characters dont always need to be believable, but entertaining and rich with detail.  With that said, I don't think many story driven games this gen from Japanese devs have extremely memorable characters for me.  At least, not new ones.  Solid Snake is the best one I can think of, and he is not new.  Ni No Kuni looks to have some good characters/story as well.  

Characters dont always need to be believable, but entertaining and rich with detail.  With that said, I don't think many story driven games this gen from Japanese devs have extremely memorable characters for me.  At least, not new ones.  Solid Snake is the best one I can think of, and he is not new.  Ni No Kuni looks to have some good characters/story as well.  

 

NaveedLife

Plus Solid Snake was modeled after and inspired by American movies. Kurt Russel to be exact, even though Kojima went back and forth on that.

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

Characters dont always need to be believable, but entertaining and rich with detail.  With that said, I don't think many story driven games this gen from Japanese devs have extremely memorable characters for me.  At least, not new ones.  Solid Snake is the best one I can think of, and he is not new.  Ni No Kuni looks to have some good characters/story as well.  

 

alexwatchtower

Plus Solid Snake was modeled after and inspired by American movies. Kurt Russel to be exact, even though Kojima went back and forth on that.

haha hyeah thats true, but they still invented him and the other characters.  i could list far more characters from past gens that Japanese devs did wonders with, but this gen lacked a bit.  

What is believable is different from person to person. I find more of the reason they do not like character from Japanese. I find many that do not like Japanese character use shallow reasoning with overgeneralization to justify it.

The western can make just as many unbelievable characters. I find many western characters are very flat and have little to them.

In some way I find FF13 characters to be more believeable that Mass Effect 2 characters.

What is believable is different from person to person. I find more of the reason they do not like character from Japanese. I find many that do not like Japanese character use shallow reasoning with overgeneralization to justify it.

The western can make just as many unbelievable characters. I find many western characters are very flat and have little to them.

In some way I find FF13 characters to be more believeable that Mass Effect 2 characters.

wiouds

haha hyeah thats true, but they still invented him and the other characters.  i could list far more characters from past gens that Japanese devs did wonders with, but this gen lacked a bit.  

NaveedLife

Sure if you call that innovation. 

While we're at it Sonic was ultimately changed to appeal to Westerners, his shoes were designed after Michael Jackson's boots, red color after Santa Claus and attitude after Bill Clinton. He originally had fangs and a girlfriend named Madonna, who was considered too much for the American audience.

And Mario was inspired by an Italian man named Mario Segale, from Tukwila, Washington. Nintendo's landlord for one of their buildings. He doesn't like being associated with Mario.

Sorry if I ruined anyone's childhood dreams.:P

Yes. Japan has yet to graduate from the spikey hair/school girl character design school. Some PC/Western developers have learned how to do beautiful art. Japan has yet to pick up anything from them which is to their own detriment now that Japan is no longer the center of videogame development.

alexwatchtower

Such comments are meaningless if you fail to take into account the difference in market demographics, as I mentioned in a previous comment.  Spikey haired teens are the dominate demographic for the game market in Japan and manga style characters are popular with that group.  Such games are designed primarily for the Japanese market, they are not designed to appeal to adult gamers in the US.  English language versions of Japanese games are frequently released in the US because of the niche market for such games here, but they are not designed for this market, so East/West character comparisons are not particularly relevant.

Best thing you can hope for is c_rake not to cross this thread.Blabadon

Huh?

[QUOTE="capaho"]What, specifically, are you referring to? The characters in the MGS series, for example, are very well defined and the stories work well. Perhaps if you compare specific characters it will add clarity to your comment.punkpunker

Kojima's MGS are the exception, he is totally into the story and character development and influenced by western movies. Compared to other japanese marque like Final fantasy, it was not important for characters to develope.

I have to say Western = European characters, love both of them, I have to say Eastern/Asian characters have gone down hill after 2000 (after FF9 and Chrono Cross).

I'm sorry but I don't want to play as a guy who looks like this

(bad emo character that you wanted to punch in the face)

Characters like these had potential but were drowned out cause of the awful "main characters". I mean FFX had such an amazing supporting cast with Auron and Lulu but Tidus totally killed that game for me while FF12 had Balthier,Fran and Basch but were drowned out by Vaan.

(good character)

the western audiance is much larger than japan which is just 1 country. so japanese gamers not relating to western gamers and vice versa hurts japan alot more.jaypeon

The fallacy in this whole discussion is that there is no East/West audience.  Games that are popular in the US also sell well in Japan.  Games designed primarily for the Japanese market are designed for a market dominated by Japanese teens.  There is no valid way to compare game design across markets because the market demographics are quite different, as I've mentioned several times already.  There is also no such thing as an Eastern culture.  Japanese culture is distinct from Chinese culture is distinct from Korean culture, and so on.  Japan is no more representative of other Asian countries than the US is representative of European countries.

There are Japanese games with great characters. There are Japanese games with awful and cliched characters.

There are Western games with great characters. There are Western games with awful and cliched characters.

You can't really generalize, and doing so sounds extremely silly. Video games as a whole, regardless of region, would do well to try to make some more believable characters.

I don't know, both have their fair share of stereotypical characters.  A lot of western games depict males as rather dumb and just running around with a giant gun killing stuff.  Of course there are some well written games (bioshock infinite/the last of us [at least it seems to be from what previews they've shown]) but too many games are just dumb muscular dudes killing stuff (basically apply this to every war game and popular shooter like Gears of War and Killzone series). 

Female characters are not that common in general, but it seems they're becoming more believable (i.e. the new Tomb Raider). 

It seems as this console cycle comes to an end, devs are becoming better at making believable characters, so it'll be interesting to see how character writing continues for next gen (it finally seems like real writers are being used for video games, as stories seem to be getting better, especially this year). 

so what? japanese people should be more like western cultures? you know you are being ethnocentric....jsmoke03

Most people in the "West" have a mythological concept of Japan that does not match the reality of Japan.  People make comments that are based on ignorance rather than understanding.  In any case, Japan is heavily influenced by American culture these days, even if they don't like to admint it.