dreamcast never reach it's limits?

I know Hal;f-Life was cancelled a week before it's release; you can see commercials for it on youtube.

Panzer Dragoon Orta, Virtua Fighter 4, ToeJam and Earl 3, and Jet Set Radio Future were all set to release on the system, but never did.

The system topped it's graphic capabilities quite early, that's why there wasn't any clear graphical genarition progression within the games.

The Dreamcast wasn't even able to do Model 3 properly, thinking games like Panzer Dragoon Orta or Virta Fighter 4 on the DC would have looked anything alike to what they ended up looking on the other consoles just make-believe.

I know Hal;f-Life was cancelled a week before it's release; you can see commercials for it on youtube.

Panzer Dragoon Orta, Virtua Fighter 4, ToeJam and Earl 3, and Jet Set Radio Future were all set to release on the system, but never did.

krunkfu2

Hence why it got canned.

The system topped it's graphic capabilities quite early, that's why there wasn't any clear graphical genarition progression within the games.

The Dreamcast wasn't even able to do Model 3 properly, thinking games like Panzer Dragoon Orta or Virta Fighter 4 on the DC would have looked anything alike to what they ended up looking on the other consoles just make-believe.

[QUOTE="krunkfu2"]

I know Hal;f-Life was cancelled a week before it's release; you can see commercials for it on youtube.

Panzer Dragoon Orta, Virtua Fighter 4, ToeJam and Earl 3, and Jet Set Radio Future were all set to release on the system, but never did.

Panzer_Zwei

Hence why it got canned.

Yea, I know it looked bad, and FP controls on the DC take some getting used to, but i still wanted to play it (still never have).

did any console ever reached its limit?st1ka

Well, the consoles that lasted more than 5 years usually had at least one game that exhausted all of their potential power. Take a look at the NES with its impressive Kirby's Adventure. Do you think that the NES could have handled more?

[QUOTE="st1ka"]did any console ever reached its limit?UltimateXShadow

Well, the consoles that lasted more than 5 years usually had at least one game that exhausted all of their potential power. Take a look at the NES with its impressive Kirby's Adventure. Do you think that the NES could have handled more?

The DC certainly wasnt maxed out after only a couple years of life. There were games that pushed it like Shenmue and RE:CV and Soul Caliber but they were all early in the consoles life and showed a mere glimpse of what could have been expected had it lived on.

There was some japanese shooter called Rekka Summer Carnival '92. I played it on an emulator, but the things going on in that game were far beyond what I thought the NES could do.

Full-screen multi-jointed bosses with rotation effects, on the NES?!? Yeah, I think it beats Kirby.

Soul Calibur wasn't really a launch game. First generation yes. But not launch. Only launch in the US. But in Japan where the DC came out in Nov. 98 a good 10 months before Soul Calibur.

But anyways...The DC was apparently easy to program so maxing it out would have been easier than with the Saturn which was a pain for people to program for.

Of course it wasn't maxed out. It barely had a 2 year life, if even that. A console can't be maxed out in that short of a time. Every time I hear someone say Dreamcast a tear comes to my eye and I feel hatred for Sony and how they pretty much killed any momentum Sega got going with their system. I guess it's not their fault, though. It was uneducated consumers that overpaid for a system that just flat out was not as fun as the Dreamcast.

if you think about it...shenmue was originally for sega saturn but then was cancelled and brought over to the dreamcast from ground up. Basically that's what happened to virtua fighter 4 and panzer dragoon orta.gokuofheaven

Yeah, Shenmue on the Saturn looked amazing (youtube video), definately the best graphics I've seen on a Saturn (though never released on Saturn). I think that games like Sonic Adventure 2 and Shenmue 2 were close to the Dreamcast's limits; they still look good today to me and I can't imagine Dreamcast games progressing much further past those graphics (though I sure they would have).

No, the Dreamcast was never maxed out by any of the games released in the US.

However, the best example of the Dreamcast's true untapped capabilities comes from a game called Under Defeat (released only in Japan in 2006... yes, I said that right, 2006) which showcases numerous effects and other graphical goodies that most would consider impossible on the Dreamcast.

Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_Defeat

Screens (yeah, these are from the Dreamcast):

Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1915022668163440655

While I dout even this game maxed out the Dreamcast, it shows what could have been done had the Dreamcast been allowed to survive here in the US for a longer period of time.

maxed out? defianatley not.It usually takes about four years of dev experience to get the most out of a console

maxed out? defianatley not.It usually takes about four years of dev experience to get the most out of a console

shaggyaz

Maxing out is usually true with Sony consoles because there arcitecture is always tough to work with. Super Mario 64 maxed out the N64. Soul Calibur maxed out the DC. Etc. Newer consoles are tougher to work with and require more time. PS2 wasn't maxed out till GOW II which was only last year.

[QUOTE="shaggyaz"]

maxed out? defianatley not.It usually takes about four years of dev experience to get the most out of a console

nVidiaGaMer

Maxing out is usually true with Sony consoles because there arcitecture is always tough to work with. Super Mario 64 maxed out the N64. Soul Calibur maxed out the DC. Etc. Newer consoles are tougher to work with and require more time. PS2 wasn't maxed out till GOW II which was only last year.

wow

god of war 2 looks exactly the same as the first

there were better looking games on both the DC and N64, play more of them before you spew some more

[QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"][QUOTE="shaggyaz"]

maxed out? defianatley not.It usually takes about four years of dev experience to get the most out of a console

krunkfu2

Maxing out is usually true with Sony consoles because there arcitecture is always tough to work with. Super Mario 64 maxed out the N64. Soul Calibur maxed out the DC. Etc. Newer consoles are tougher to work with and require more time. PS2 wasn't maxed out till GOW II which was only last year.

wow

god of war 2 looks exactly the same as the first

there were better looking games on both the DC and N64, play more of them before you spew some more

GOW 2 does look better then the first. Same with MGS 2 and MGS 3. Same with Gran Turismo 3 and Gran Turismo 4. The same with Tekken 4 and Tekken 5. Each of the previous ones looks inferior to the newer one. Dreamcast was less powerful then the PS2 therefore Sonic, Crazy Taxi, and Soul Calibur maxed it out.

[QUOTE="krunkfu2"][QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"][QUOTE="shaggyaz"]

maxed out? defianatley not.It usually takes about four years of dev experience to get the most out of a console

nVidiaGaMer

Maxing out is usually true with Sony consoles because there arcitecture is always tough to work with. Super Mario 64 maxed out the N64. Soul Calibur maxed out the DC. Etc. Newer consoles are tougher to work with and require more time. PS2 wasn't maxed out till GOW II which was only last year.

wow

god of war 2 looks exactly the same as the first

there were better looking games on both the DC and N64, play more of them before you spew some more

GOW 2 does look better then the first. Same with MGS 2 and MGS 3. Same with Gran Turismo 3 and Gran Turismo 4. The same with Tekken 4 and Tekken 5. Each of the previous ones looks inferior to the newer one. Dreamcast was less powerful then the PS2 therefore Sonic, Crazy Taxi, and Soul Calibur maxed it out.

wow

that was some horrible logic

I don't even want to continue this argument

you're too blind

[QUOTE="krunkfu2"][QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"][QUOTE="shaggyaz"]

maxed out? defianatley not.It usually takes about four years of dev experience to get the most out of a console

nVidiaGaMer

Maxing out is usually true with Sony consoles because there arcitecture is always tough to work with. Super Mario 64 maxed out the N64. Soul Calibur maxed out the DC. Etc. Newer consoles are tougher to work with and require more time. PS2 wasn't maxed out till GOW II which was only last year.

wow

god of war 2 looks exactly the same as the first

there were better looking games on both the DC and N64, play more of them before you spew some more

GOW 2 does look better then the first. Same with MGS 2 and MGS 3. Same with Gran Turismo 3 and Gran Turismo 4. The same with Tekken 4 and Tekken 5. Each of the previous ones looks inferior to the newer one. Dreamcast was less powerful then the PS2 therefore Sonic, Crazy Taxi, and Soul Calibur maxed it out.

I smell a Playstation fanboy.

I don't really know about if SC really maxed out the DC (rest in peace) but look at some important factors that ultimately decided the spunky little system's fate:

1.) The mere whisper of the PS2, NOT EVEN THE SYSTEM ITSELF, killed any chance it had.

2.) Piracy. It was wwaaayyy too easy to burn games for it, thus hampering software sales.

3.) They never got the on-line capabilities up too par, even though you'll have to admit, was potentially cool (SEGA Channel).

4.) No where near the necessary 3rd party support to stay in the race.

And 5.) The Saturn left too much a bad impression to everyone from consumers to developers so any other SEGA consoles were unfortunately doomed from the start. (Also not necessarily having a good launch library does nothing to help the cause.)

[QUOTE="krunkfu2"][QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"][QUOTE="shaggyaz"]

maxed out? defianatley not.It usually takes about four years of dev experience to get the most out of a console

nVidiaGaMer

Maxing out is usually true with Sony consoles because there arcitecture is always tough to work with. Super Mario 64 maxed out the N64. Soul Calibur maxed out the DC. Etc. Newer consoles are tougher to work with and require more time. PS2 wasn't maxed out till GOW II which was only last year.

wow

god of war 2 looks exactly the same as the first

there were better looking games on both the DC and N64, play more of them before you spew some more

GOW 2 does look better then the first. Same with MGS 2 and MGS 3. Same with Gran Turismo 3 and Gran Turismo 4. The same with Tekken 4 and Tekken 5. Each of the previous ones looks inferior to the newer one. Dreamcast was less powerful then the PS2 therefore Sonic, Crazy Taxi, and Soul Calibur maxed it out.

You don't really seem to understand what this thread is about...

I don't really know about if SC really maxed out the DC (rest in peace) but look at some important factors that ultimately decided the spunky little system's fate:

1.) The mere whisper of the PS2, NOT EVEN THE SYSTEM ITSELF, killed any chance it had.

2.) Piracy. It was wwaaayyy too easy to burn games for it, thus hampering software sales.

3.) They never got the on-line capabilities up too par, even though you'll have to admit, was potentially cool (SEGA Channel).

4.) No where near the necessary 3rd party support to stay in the race.

And 5.) The Saturn left too much a bad impression to everyone from consumers to developers so any other SEGA consoles were unfortunately doomed from the start. (Also not necessarily having a good launch library does nothing to help the cause.)

DMC2677

1) in actuality the system did die after ps2 was released. Sega was just threatened by Sony because they offered a DVD player with-in the PS2.

2) if Sega utilized some sort of protection system like Sega Saturn's, then the Dreamcast would have been much harder to pirate games on.

3) the sega channel was great...sonic adventure holiday patches were so great. Even though it was 56k modem, sega was great for bringing games online first in that generation.

4) sega never needed 3rd party support to begin with, their first party titles were amazingly strong

5) sega saturn might have had it's downs but dreamcast fixed most of it...

4) sega never needed 3rd party support to begin with, their first party titles were amazingly stronggokuofheaven

SEGA always strong third party support and exclusive developers on the Mega Drive and Saturn. With the exception of the Master System where third parties were legally binded to Nintendo. the Dreamcast had the worst party support of any SEGA console.

5) sega saturn might have had it's downs but dreamcast fixed most of it...gokuofheaven

Dreamcast was practically SEGA's worst console. And it was in fact their worst perfoming console, since most of the units sold were sold at bargain-bin price or were refurbished units.

Dreamcast in my opinion was the first true "next gen console"Foreverzero143

What about the PS1 and N64? Those systems blew away the 16bit era in terms of graphics. I'll never be in that much awe over graphics again.

[QUOTE="gokuofheaven"]

4) sega never needed 3rd party support to begin with, their first party titles were amazingly strongPanzer_Zwei

SEGA always strong third party support and exclusive developers on the Mega Drive and Saturn. With the exception of the Master System where third parties were legally binded to Nintendo. the Dreamcast had the worst party support of any SEGA console.

5) sega saturn might have had it's downs but dreamcast fixed most of it...gokuofheaven

Dreamcast was practically SEGA's worst console. And it was in fact their worst perfoming console, since most of the units sold were sold at bargain-bin price or were refurbished units.

well of course everyone needs 3rd party support but i'm saying they didn't necessarily need them. Most of them that were rated in the high 8's and 9's were first party titles.

as much as Sega Saturn sold in Japan and however popular it was, that part stays on that side of the world. As of domestic - united states - saturn was known for basically Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA, Panzer Dragoon & Sonic. Now Dreamcast in the U.S. had the first online capability that was very active (thanks to phantasy star online), the graphics, fighters & shooters were improved much more from Saturn, most of their titles were in the range of 8-9+ out of 10.

Even if developers left SEGA because of Saturn's downfall, it obviously didn't stop SEGA from creating the Dreamcast.

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="gokuofheaven"]

4) sega never needed 3rd party support to begin with, their first party titles were amazingly stronggokuofheaven

SEGA always strong third party support and exclusive developers on the Mega Drive and Saturn. With the exception of the Master System where third parties were legally binded to Nintendo. the Dreamcast had the worst party support of any SEGA console.

5) sega saturn might have had it's downs but dreamcast fixed most of it...gokuofheaven

Dreamcast was practically SEGA's worst console. And it was in fact their worst perfoming console, since most of the units sold were sold at bargain-bin price or were refurbished units.

well of course everyone needs 3rd party support but i'm saying they didn't necessarily need them. Most of them that were rated in the high 8's and 9's were first party titles.

as much as Sega Saturn sold in Japan and however popular it was, that part stays on that side of the world. As of domestic - united states - saturn was known for basically Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA, Panzer Dragoon & Sonic. Now Dreamcast in the U.S. had the first online capability that was very active (thanks to phantasy star online), the graphics, fighters & shooters were improved much more from Saturn, most of their titles were in the range of 8-9+ out of 10.

Even if developers left SEGA because of Saturn's downfall, it obviously didn't stop SEGA from creating the Dreamcast.

Like I mentioned before, even the first party line-up was lackluster compared to all of the games that they developed for the Saturn. Nothing was really better on the Dreamcast. The Saturn had the best fighters of it's generation and the only way to play them properly was with the Saturn. no other console could've handled them. Almost all fighters from the Dreamcast got ported to other consoles. The SHMUPS on the Saturn were a whole world better than anything that came on the Dreamcast.

Their strongest exlusive third party support from companies like Treausre and Game Arts was minimal. While other companies that strongly supported the Saturn like Atlus and Konami retired their support almost totally. Even companies like Camelot abandoned them.

The Mega Drive and Saturn were consoles that carried their fan-base through an entire generation with excellent progressive game releases. The Dreamcast was a console that got most of it's praise after it died because people felt sorry for it for getting discountinued, and love to go on about how much potential it supposedly had.

There's just no comparison.

Even if developers left SEGA because of Saturn's downfall, it obviously didn't stop SEGA from creating the Dreamcast.gokuofheaven

Good call from their part. :|

Soul Calibur maxed out the dreamcast. PS2 > Dreamcast anyday.nVidiaGaMer

[QUOTE="gokuofheaven"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="gokuofheaven"]

4) sega never needed 3rd party support to begin with, their first party titles were amazingly strongPanzer_Zwei

SEGA always strong third party support and exclusive developers on the Mega Drive and Saturn. With the exception of the Master System where third parties were legally binded to Nintendo. the Dreamcast had the worst party support of any SEGA console.

5) sega saturn might have had it's downs but dreamcast fixed most of it...gokuofheaven

Dreamcast was practically SEGA's worst console. And it was in fact their worst perfoming console, since most of the units sold were sold at bargain-bin price or were refurbished units.

well of course everyone needs 3rd party support but i'm saying they didn't necessarily need them. Most of them that were rated in the high 8's and 9's were first party titles.

as much as Sega Saturn sold in Japan and however popular it was, that part stays on that side of the world. As of domestic - united states - saturn was known for basically Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA, Panzer Dragoon & Sonic. Now Dreamcast in the U.S. had the first online capability that was very active (thanks to phantasy star online), the graphics, fighters & shooters were improved much more from Saturn, most of their titles were in the range of 8-9+ out of 10.

Even if developers left SEGA because of Saturn's downfall, it obviously didn't stop SEGA from creating the Dreamcast.

Like I mentioned before, even the first party line-up was lackluster compared to all of the games that they developed for the Saturn. Nothing was really better on the Dreamcast. The Saturn had the best fighters of it's generation and the only way to play them properly was with the Saturn. no other console could've handled them. Almost all fighters from the Dreamcast got ported to other consoles. The SHMUPS on the Saturn were a whole world better than anything that came on the Dreamcast.

Their strongest exlusive third party support from companies like Treausre and Game Arts was minimal. While other companies that strongly supported the Saturn like Atlus and Konami retired their support almost totally. Even companies like Camelot abandoned them.

The Mega Drive and Saturn were consoles that carried their fan-base through an entire generation with excellent progressive game releases. The Dreamcast was a console that got most of it's praise after it died because people felt sorry for it for getting discountinued, and love to go on about how much potential it supposedly had.

There's just no comparison.

Even if developers left SEGA because of Saturn's downfall, it obviously didn't stop SEGA from creating the Dreamcast.gokuofheaven

Good call from their part. :|

Ok, well at least in my opinion, Sega Dreamcast had and still has better shooter and fighters compared to the Mega Drive & Saturn. As you have stated your opinion on which SEGA console is superior to you, i have stated mine. Although, i do enjoy games on the mega-drive and saturn....so no loss there.

It just seems like your responses are geared towards the lack of support for SEGA, but rather to ignore people's opinion's on their support for SEGA and/or Dreamcast.

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="gokuofheaven"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"][QUOTE="gokuofheaven"]

4) sega never needed 3rd party support to begin with, their first party titles were amazingly stronggokuofheaven

SEGA always strong third party support and exclusive developers on the Mega Drive and Saturn. With the exception of the Master System where third parties were legally binded to Nintendo. the Dreamcast had the worst party support of any SEGA console.

5) sega saturn might have had it's downs but dreamcast fixed most of it...gokuofheaven

Dreamcast was practically SEGA's worst console. And it was in fact their worst perfoming console, since most of the units sold were sold at bargain-bin price or were refurbished units.

well of course everyone needs 3rd party support but i'm saying they didn't necessarily need them. Most of them that were rated in the high 8's and 9's were first party titles.

as much as Sega Saturn sold in Japan and however popular it was, that part stays on that side of the world. As of domestic - united states - saturn was known for basically Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA, Panzer Dragoon & Sonic. Now Dreamcast in the U.S. had the first online capability that was very active (thanks to phantasy star online), the graphics, fighters & shooters were improved much more from Saturn, most of their titles were in the range of 8-9+ out of 10.

Even if developers left SEGA because of Saturn's downfall, it obviously didn't stop SEGA from creating the Dreamcast.

Like I mentioned before, even the first party line-up was lackluster compared to all of the games that they developed for the Saturn. Nothing was really better on the Dreamcast. The Saturn had the best fighters of it's generation and the only way to play them properly was with the Saturn. no other console could've handled them. Almost all fighters from the Dreamcast got ported to other consoles. The SHMUPS on the Saturn were a whole world better than anything that came on the Dreamcast.

Their strongest exlusive third party support from companies like Treausre and Game Arts was minimal. While other companies that strongly supported the Saturn like Atlus and Konami retired their support almost totally. Even companies like Camelot abandoned them.

The Mega Drive and Saturn were consoles that carried their fan-base through an entire generation with excellent progressive game releases. The Dreamcast was a console that got most of it's praise after it died because people felt sorry for it for getting discountinued, and love to go on about how much potential it supposedly had.

There's just no comparison.

Even if developers left SEGA because of Saturn's downfall, it obviously didn't stop SEGA from creating the Dreamcast.gokuofheaven

Good call from their part. :|

Ok, well at least in my opinion, Sega Dreamcast had and still has better shooter and fighters compared to the Mega Drive & Saturn. As you have stated your opinion on which SEGA console is superior to you, i have stated mine. Although, i do enjoy games on the mega-drive and saturn....so no loss there.

It just seems like your responses are geared towards the lack of support for SEGA, but rather to ignore people's opinion's on their support for SEGA and/or Dreamcast.

The Saturn had Radiant Silvergun, Battle Garegga, Soukyugurentai, Batsugun, DoDonPächi, Strikers 1945 II etc.. The Saturn had the support from the best of the best SHMUP developers of all time: Konami, Raizing, Technosoft, Cave etc. The Dreamcast had none.

I don't care for opinions, I care about facts. In your opinion the Super 32X could be the best system ever, but that's irrelevant.

The Dreamcast didn't had half the games or third party support that the Saturn had, and that's a "fact" that you can't twist, because both system libraries are there for everyone to see.

The Mega Drive and Saturn were systems that people could chose as their main gaming platform. They were systems that lived and progressed through their respective generations. The Dreamcast is a bargain-bin system that people buy out of curiousity nowadays for it's few good games it has.

It seems to me you have pretty low system standards to rate systems. Anyone could say systems like the 3DO weren't that bad because it had games Policenauts, Road Rash, Star Control etc.

The fact of the matter is that people buy the Dreamcast with no expectations whatsoever. They already know it failed, and whatever few bargain-bin games they find for their also cheap console is a bonus. But for people that actually expected something out of the system, it didn't came nothing less than a enormous disappointing.

[QUOTE="nVidiaGaMer"]Soul Calibur maxed out the dreamcast. PS2 > Dreamcast anyday.RELL1K

Thats only one of the things. The main things that destroyed the Dreamcast are that it came out too early, there was no software, etc.

i dont mean to necro post but heres proof the dreamcast wasnt pushed to the limit( even though if u guys used logic ud notice the dreamcast never used framebuffer/full screen effects aka bloom depth of field and so on,which were very possibleo n the dreamcast.)

soul reaver 2 developer talk about dc build:

AB: For Soul Reaver 2, we're not held back by PS1 and so we're able to upgrade all our content constraints without sacrificing 60fps. For example, Raziel is now around 3,000 polygons vs. 500 last time on PS1 and 800 on DC. The environments are roughly 8-10 times denser in terms of polys with around the same increase in the number of textures.

IGN DC: Soul Reaver 2 is currently slated to simultaneously hit the Dreamcast and PlayStation 2, and we've been told that the port will be limited by the strengths and weaknesses of both systems. What sort of advantages has the Dreamcast brought to the table, and conversely, have you had to hold back anything the Ps2 could have done because of the DC's less powerful hardware?

AB: We're keeping a pretty good balance between the two consoles. Early on, we were concerned that we'd have to adopt a "lowest common denominator" approach to stay within the constraints of both platforms, but that hasn't been the case at all. The Dreamcast programmers have really managed to push the DC engine to the limits and in just about every way it's keeping up with the PS2.