Final Fantasy X-X2 remastered - Only for young gamers?

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RyviusARC

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#51 RyviusARC
Member since 2011 • 5708 Posts

@skr3t said:

@mgools said:

So far the game has been okay.

Likes so far: Graphics, Controls, turn based fights. Game play explanations.

Dislikes so far: Geared toward younger audiences. Main guy looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, and no matter what he says sounds like whining. So far the game is linear...very linear. To the point of being a standard action game or FPS. Very little to no freedom yet. Hope this changes and things open up some.

Neutral: Story. Still early and the story has me pulled in, but so far every thing seems to be geared around Bitz Ball so far. Story has promise, but also looks like it can take a dive. Also save points are close enough so far, but with a portable system I really do like the save anywhere thing since one of the points of a portable is to play for a short car ride,etc.

I still don't understand what you mean by it's geared towards a "younger audience" so I got nothing for that. It is one of the more linear Final Fantasy games, especially because there isn't the traditional overworld map and when you do get an airship you can't actually fly it and instead you choose your destination from a list. So that's not really indicative of series as a whole as most of the other games are much more open.

And I really liked the story. It's weird as hell but it is an RPG so that's par for the course.

Biggest thing I can say is it has what I think to be the best battle system of any final fantasy game and while some characters are better overall than others you can actually use the entire cast for different situations if you want to which is a welcome change from having a bunch of throwaway characters.

My problem is that once you get the best weapon for even one character out of your party you will rape any of the common bosses in the game.

I killed the last boss in the game with two moves which really took away from any challenge in the game.

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RyviusARC

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#52  Edited By RyviusARC
Member since 2011 • 5708 Posts

@notorious1234na said:

@mgools said:

So far the game has been okay.

Likes so far: Graphics, Controls, turn based fights. Game play explanations.

Dislikes so far: Geared toward younger audiences. Main guy looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, and no matter what he says sounds like whining. So far the game is linear...very linear. To the point of being a standard action game or FPS. Very little to no freedom yet. Hope this changes and things open up some.

Neutral: Story. Still early and the story has me pulled in, but so far every thing seems to be geared around Bitz Ball so far. Story has promise, but also looks like it can take a dive. Also save points are close enough so far, but with a portable system I really do like the save anywhere thing since one of the points of a portable is to play for a short car ride,etc.

LOL welcome to JRPGs

Most JRPGs are well heavily influenced by anime. If you don't like anime don't play JRPGs and many btw are geared towards kids. Don't get it OK um in nutshell below is what anime is:

There are well made mature anime like Monster and Master Keaton but those are few and far between.

Most anime fans don't seem to like realistic characters or realistic thought provoking conflicts.

I found it weird that most JRPGs feature 15-17 year old kids as the main characters and the average age of the gamer who buys this stuff is well into their mid twenties if not older.

That is one of the reasons I can't get into JRPGs anymore.

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#53 MFPunch
Member since 2013 • 33 Posts

I understand what the words mean I just don't see this game as being for a younger audience, that's all. It might not have mature content but I don't think the story was written with 13 year olds in mind.

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Notorious1234NA

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#55 Notorious1234NA
Member since 2014 • 1917 Posts

@mfpunch: lol uh yes it was ALL ff games were, most square Enix games were. I repeat most JRPGs heavily influenced by anime.

Japanese anime = Cartoons

I think it's common sense that anything heavily influenced by x will have qualities of x. The common misconception is that most gamers are 30s which is true, but that is the general statistic. If people actually read the breakdown of that statistic, many would know the reason the cast are often teenagers is because the majority of consumers who own JRPGs are actually kids.

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#56 final_lap
Member since 2006 • 388 Posts

@BranKetra said:

@final_lap said:

@BranKetra said:

@Jag85 said:

"Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."

― C.S. Lewis

+1

@final_lap said:

Final Fantasy X and X-2 remastered have randomly triggered encounters, meaning they are exclusively for fanboys who played the originals and want to relive the experience.

You seem to be implying Final Fantasy XIII is better than previous Final Fantasies.

I haven't played FF13. But I'm saying there could be things FF13 is better at, this being one of them.

You would probably agree that FF13 has better graphics as well, even though this does not mean FF13 better.

The preference for random or visible encounters is just that.

I will not say much about the difference in graphics because there is not much to say. A major trait of Final Fantasy games is that the newest main FF features the best graphics.

It is not strictly a preference. Just like how newer FFs have better graphics they also don't have random encounters. it is a linear progression of something becoming better. It is one thing to like one art style to another but it is arguably not so much a preference to say you like the same art style done worse Some things are objective, other things are subjective.

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#57 branketra
Member since 2006 • 51726 Posts

@final_lap: As I understand your comment, you mean random encounters are objectively worse than visible ones. I would like to know why you believe that is true.

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RyviusARC

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#58 RyviusARC
Member since 2011 • 5708 Posts

@notorious1234na said:

@mfpunch: lol uh yes it was ALL ff games were, most square Enix games were. I repeat most JRPGs heavily influenced by anime.

Japanese anime = Cartoons

I think it's common sense that anything heavily influenced by x will have qualities of x. The common misconception is that most gamers are 30s which is true, but that is the general statistic. If people actually read the breakdown of that statistic, many would know the reason the cast are often teenagers is because the majority of consumers who own JRPGs are actually kids.

If this were the 1990s you would be correct but a lot of 20 and 30 somethings own JRPGs now since they grew up with them.

Same goes for anime in Japan.

A lot of anime is purchased by 20 to 30 somethings who actually have the money to afford it.

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#59 PyratRum
Member since 2013 • 778 Posts

I wouldn't recommend FFX. It's a shitty Final Fantasy and an even shitter JRPG.

Considering you have a Vita, you'll have access to far better FF titles on PSN such as V, VI, VII, VIII, IX. Seriously, those are all better than 10.

And yes, Tidus is an annoying, whiny, little bitch.

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#60 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 20695 Posts
@RyviusARC said:

As I get older I have a harder time with suspension of disbelief.

I gain more knowledge and raise my standards for what I consider to be of good quality.

I remember playing FFX when it first came out and as a teen I enjoyed the gameplay and story, but when I went back to replay it a couple of years ago my impression of the game was a lot different.

The voice acting seemed a whole lot worse, the script was poorly done and the characters seemed too unrealistic for me to connect with.

I used to love JRPGs but I rarely touch them anymore because of how unrealistic the premise of just about every game is with teenagers being able to save the world.

It reminds me of a book I read where one of the characters was a female in her late teens who only had a few months of training with a sword and bow yet was easily able to take on multiple elite hardened guards who had decades of war experience.

Most kids would not be critical of such stuff and think it was "awesome!" but I just cringe when I see stuff like that in a story driven game that is trying to take itself seriously.

Some games I can ignore for being ridiculous if they are not trying to be serious about it at all but those games are few.

The thing about the voice acting is that it was praised by even most adults back in 2001/2002. And a big reason why was because, by early 2000's gaming standards, the voice acting was as good as it gets. The difference isn't just that we've grown up, but that we've gotten used to higher-quality voice acting over the years. It's a bit like going back to watching 80's blockbusters like Star Wars or Indiana Jones, which are full of cheesy dialogues by today's standards, yet most adults back then loved those dialogues.

However, I think a bigger issue is, like most JRPG's, FFX was localized and dubbed into English, rather than being a native English-language game. As a result, there is always going to be a cultural disconnect. A lot of expressions and mannerisms that are "normal" and "realistic" in Japanese culture would seem "unusual" or "unrealistic" in Western cultures, and vice-versa, since many Japanese gamers had similar complaints about WRPG's like Mass Effect, such as the characters behaving in a "peculiar" or "unrealistic" manner. From a Western perspective, FFX is probably one of the most jarring examples of this, since FFX is far more loved in Japan than it is in the West, either because the Japanese script and voice acting was much better than the English localization, or simply because FFX culturally resonates with Japanese audiences more than it does with Western audiences. Most teenagers wouldn't notice or pay attention to the cultural differences the way adults would, so we wouldn't have picked up on the peculiar cultural differences back then like we would today.

And finally, I think you are under-estimating what teenagers are capable up. Up until the 19th century, there wasn't even any such thing as "teenagers" or "adolescence", but most people were considered "adults" the moment they hit puberty. It wasn't until the early 20th century that the concept of "adolescence" started gaining popularity, largely due to the increasing life expectancy of the average human being at the time. When it comes to combat in particular, up until the 20th century, most soldiers were teenagers. Even in the Vietnam War, the average age of a soldier was reportedly only around 19-20. And while the average age of Western soldiers have increased since then, a lot of developing countries still involve younger fighters, especially in Middle-Eastern conflicts which frequently involve teenage fighters. In Japan's case, despite having the highest life expectancy in the world, it seems like they still haven't moved on much from the traditional view of teenagers being adults.

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#61 RyviusARC
Member since 2011 • 5708 Posts

@Jag85 said:
@RyviusARC said:

As I get older I have a harder time with suspension of disbelief.

I gain more knowledge and raise my standards for what I consider to be of good quality.

I remember playing FFX when it first came out and as a teen I enjoyed the gameplay and story, but when I went back to replay it a couple of years ago my impression of the game was a lot different.

The voice acting seemed a whole lot worse, the script was poorly done and the characters seemed too unrealistic for me to connect with.

I used to love JRPGs but I rarely touch them anymore because of how unrealistic the premise of just about every game is with teenagers being able to save the world.

It reminds me of a book I read where one of the characters was a female in her late teens who only had a few months of training with a sword and bow yet was easily able to take on multiple elite hardened guards who had decades of war experience.

Most kids would not be critical of such stuff and think it was "awesome!" but I just cringe when I see stuff like that in a story driven game that is trying to take itself seriously.

Some games I can ignore for being ridiculous if they are not trying to be serious about it at all but those games are few.

The thing about the voice acting is that it was praised by even most adults back in 2001/2002. And a big reason why was because, by early 2000's gaming standards, the voice acting was as good as it gets. The difference isn't just that we've grown up, but that we've gotten used to higher-quality voice acting over the years. It's a bit like going back to watching 80's blockbusters like Star Wars or Indiana Jones, which are full of cheesy dialogues by today's standards, yet most adults back then loved those dialogues.

However, I think a bigger issue is, like most JRPG's, FFX was localized and dubbed into English, rather than being a native English-language game. As a result, there is always going to be a cultural disconnect. A lot of expressions and mannerisms that are "normal" and "realistic" in Japanese culture would seem "unusual" or "unrealistic" in Western cultures, and vice-versa, since many Japanese gamers had similar complaints about WRPG's like Mass Effect, such as the characters behaving in a "peculiar" or "unrealistic" manner. From a Western perspective, FFX is probably one of the most jarring examples of this, since FFX is far more loved in Japan than it is in the West, either because the Japanese script and voice acting was much better than the English localization, or simply because FFX culturally resonates with Japanese audiences more than it does with Western audiences. Most teenagers wouldn't notice or pay attention to the cultural differences the way adults would, so we wouldn't have picked up on the peculiar cultural differences back then like we would today.

And finally, I think you are under-estimating what teenagers are capable up. Up until the 19th century, there wasn't even any such thing as "teenagers" or "adolescence", but most people were considered "adults" the moment they hit puberty. It wasn't until the early 20th century that the concept of "adolescence" started gaining popularity, largely due to the increasing life expectancy of the average human being at the time. When it comes to combat in particular, up until the 20th century, most soldiers were teenagers. Even in the Vietnam War, the average age of a soldier was reportedly only around 19-20. And while the average age of Western soldiers have increased since then, a lot of developing countries still involve younger fighters, especially in Middle-Eastern conflicts which frequently involve teenage fighters. In Japan's case, despite having the highest life expectancy in the world, it seems like they still haven't moved on much from the traditional view of teenagers being adults.

I've heard better voice acting in games that are older than FFX.

I also know of Japanese mannerisms and expressions and I know how to speak it so I've even played the Japanese version and while the voice acting is better the script is not by much.

And I see no problem with kids being soldiers or treated as adults but I do see a problem where the kids are somehow much more intelligent and powerful than all the adults who have decades of experience.

Video Games as a whole have not improved story wise.

The most well written video game stories came out before FFX.

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#62  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 20695 Posts

@RyviusARC said:

@Jag85 said:
@RyviusARC said:

As I get older I have a harder time with suspension of disbelief.

I gain more knowledge and raise my standards for what I consider to be of good quality.

I remember playing FFX when it first came out and as a teen I enjoyed the gameplay and story, but when I went back to replay it a couple of years ago my impression of the game was a lot different.

The voice acting seemed a whole lot worse, the script was poorly done and the characters seemed too unrealistic for me to connect with.

I used to love JRPGs but I rarely touch them anymore because of how unrealistic the premise of just about every game is with teenagers being able to save the world.

It reminds me of a book I read where one of the characters was a female in her late teens who only had a few months of training with a sword and bow yet was easily able to take on multiple elite hardened guards who had decades of war experience.

Most kids would not be critical of such stuff and think it was "awesome!" but I just cringe when I see stuff like that in a story driven game that is trying to take itself seriously.

Some games I can ignore for being ridiculous if they are not trying to be serious about it at all but those games are few.

The thing about the voice acting is that it was praised by even most adults back in 2001/2002. And a big reason why was because, by early 2000's gaming standards, the voice acting was as good as it gets. The difference isn't just that we've grown up, but that we've gotten used to higher-quality voice acting over the years. It's a bit like going back to watching 80's blockbusters like Star Wars or Indiana Jones, which are full of cheesy dialogues by today's standards, yet most adults back then loved those dialogues.

However, I think a bigger issue is, like most JRPG's, FFX was localized and dubbed into English, rather than being a native English-language game. As a result, there is always going to be a cultural disconnect. A lot of expressions and mannerisms that are "normal" and "realistic" in Japanese culture would seem "unusual" or "unrealistic" in Western cultures, and vice-versa, since many Japanese gamers had similar complaints about WRPG's like Mass Effect, such as the characters behaving in a "peculiar" or "unrealistic" manner. From a Western perspective, FFX is probably one of the most jarring examples of this, since FFX is far more loved in Japan than it is in the West, either because the Japanese script and voice acting was much better than the English localization, or simply because FFX culturally resonates with Japanese audiences more than it does with Western audiences. Most teenagers wouldn't notice or pay attention to the cultural differences the way adults would, so we wouldn't have picked up on the peculiar cultural differences back then like we would today.

And finally, I think you are under-estimating what teenagers are capable up. Up until the 19th century, there wasn't even any such thing as "teenagers" or "adolescence", but most people were considered "adults" the moment they hit puberty. It wasn't until the early 20th century that the concept of "adolescence" started gaining popularity, largely due to the increasing life expectancy of the average human being at the time. When it comes to combat in particular, up until the 20th century, most soldiers were teenagers. Even in the Vietnam War, the average age of a soldier was reportedly only around 19-20. And while the average age of Western soldiers have increased since then, a lot of developing countries still involve younger fighters, especially in Middle-Eastern conflicts which frequently involve teenage fighters. In Japan's case, despite having the highest life expectancy in the world, it seems like they still haven't moved on much from the traditional view of teenagers being adults.

I've heard better voice acting in games that are older than FFX.

I also know of Japanese mannerisms and expressions and I know how to speak it so I've even played the Japanese version and while the voice acting is better the script is not by much.

And I see no problem with kids being soldiers or treated as adults but I do see a problem where the kids are somehow much more intelligent and powerful than all the adults who have decades of experience.

Video Games as a whole have not improved story wise.

The most well written video game stories came out before FFX.

Perhaps, but how many of those were dubbed games like FFX? The dubbing quality for most games wasn't that great back in those days.

It's not just language, but culture as well. In Japan, FFX is arguably the most popular game in the entire FF series. The script seems to have resonated with Japanese audiences much more than Western audiences. And it probably has to do with FFX arguably being the most "Japanese" game of the series, from the Japanese-style setting and Shinto-like religion to various little Japanese morals and cultural references that most Western audiences might not pick up on. For example, that cringe-worthy laughing scene was something most Western audiences just didn't "get" and found just plain embarrassing, yet it would make sense to audiences in Japan, where school life and especially working life is usually more difficult than in the West.

Actually, it's not uncommon for inexperienced teenage fighters to beat experienced adult soldiers on the battlefield. Throughout history, there have been many occasions when younger, inexperienced, teenage armies defeated older, experienced, adult armies. And even today, we sometimes still see battles like that in the Middle East, with teenage guerilla fighters often beating experienced adult soldiers. It might be hard to believe for most Westerners today, since we tend to treat our teenagers like immature kids, but a century ago, teenagers were usually treated like adults here in the West. And this is still true to some extent in Japan today, with teenagers there usually having a greater work-load and more responsibilities than Western teenagers.

But yeah, I kind of agree that RPG stories were better back in the 90's. But a lot of the great stories back then were usually written (like novels), rather than voiced (like movies).

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RyviusARC

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#63 RyviusARC
Member since 2011 • 5708 Posts

@Jag85 said:

@RyviusARC said:

@Jag85 said:
@RyviusARC said:

As I get older I have a harder time with suspension of disbelief.

I gain more knowledge and raise my standards for what I consider to be of good quality.

I remember playing FFX when it first came out and as a teen I enjoyed the gameplay and story, but when I went back to replay it a couple of years ago my impression of the game was a lot different.

The voice acting seemed a whole lot worse, the script was poorly done and the characters seemed too unrealistic for me to connect with.

I used to love JRPGs but I rarely touch them anymore because of how unrealistic the premise of just about every game is with teenagers being able to save the world.

It reminds me of a book I read where one of the characters was a female in her late teens who only had a few months of training with a sword and bow yet was easily able to take on multiple elite hardened guards who had decades of war experience.

Most kids would not be critical of such stuff and think it was "awesome!" but I just cringe when I see stuff like that in a story driven game that is trying to take itself seriously.

Some games I can ignore for being ridiculous if they are not trying to be serious about it at all but those games are few.

The thing about the voice acting is that it was praised by even most adults back in 2001/2002. And a big reason why was because, by early 2000's gaming standards, the voice acting was as good as it gets. The difference isn't just that we've grown up, but that we've gotten used to higher-quality voice acting over the years. It's a bit like going back to watching 80's blockbusters like Star Wars or Indiana Jones, which are full of cheesy dialogues by today's standards, yet most adults back then loved those dialogues.

However, I think a bigger issue is, like most JRPG's, FFX was localized and dubbed into English, rather than being a native English-language game. As a result, there is always going to be a cultural disconnect. A lot of expressions and mannerisms that are "normal" and "realistic" in Japanese culture would seem "unusual" or "unrealistic" in Western cultures, and vice-versa, since many Japanese gamers had similar complaints about WRPG's like Mass Effect, such as the characters behaving in a "peculiar" or "unrealistic" manner. From a Western perspective, FFX is probably one of the most jarring examples of this, since FFX is far more loved in Japan than it is in the West, either because the Japanese script and voice acting was much better than the English localization, or simply because FFX culturally resonates with Japanese audiences more than it does with Western audiences. Most teenagers wouldn't notice or pay attention to the cultural differences the way adults would, so we wouldn't have picked up on the peculiar cultural differences back then like we would today.

And finally, I think you are under-estimating what teenagers are capable up. Up until the 19th century, there wasn't even any such thing as "teenagers" or "adolescence", but most people were considered "adults" the moment they hit puberty. It wasn't until the early 20th century that the concept of "adolescence" started gaining popularity, largely due to the increasing life expectancy of the average human being at the time. When it comes to combat in particular, up until the 20th century, most soldiers were teenagers. Even in the Vietnam War, the average age of a soldier was reportedly only around 19-20. And while the average age of Western soldiers have increased since then, a lot of developing countries still involve younger fighters, especially in Middle-Eastern conflicts which frequently involve teenage fighters. In Japan's case, despite having the highest life expectancy in the world, it seems like they still haven't moved on much from the traditional view of teenagers being adults.

I've heard better voice acting in games that are older than FFX.

I also know of Japanese mannerisms and expressions and I know how to speak it so I've even played the Japanese version and while the voice acting is better the script is not by much.

And I see no problem with kids being soldiers or treated as adults but I do see a problem where the kids are somehow much more intelligent and powerful than all the adults who have decades of experience.

Video Games as a whole have not improved story wise.

The most well written video game stories came out before FFX.

Perhaps, but how many of those were dubbed games like FFX? The dubbing quality for most games wasn't that great back in those days.

It's not just language, but culture as well. In Japan, FFX is arguably the most popular game in the entire FF series. The script seems to have resonated with Japanese audiences much more than Western audiences. And it probably has to do with FFX arguably being the most "Japanese" game of the series, from the Japanese-style setting and Shinto-like religion to various little Japanese morals and cultural references that most Western audiences might not pick up on. For example, that cringe-worthy laughing scene was something most Western audiences just didn't "get" and found just plain embarrassing, yet it would make sense to audiences in Japan, where school life and especially working life is usually more difficult than in the West.

Actually, it's not uncommon for inexperienced teenage fighters to beat experienced adult soldiers on the battlefield. Throughout history, there have been many occasions when younger, inexperienced, teenage armies defeated older, experienced, adult armies. And even today, we sometimes still see battles like that in the Middle East, with teenage guerilla fighters often beating experienced adult soldiers. It might be hard to believe for most Westerners today, since we tend to treat our teenagers like immature kids, but a century ago, teenagers were usually treated like adults here in the West. And this is still true to some extent in Japan today, with teenagers there usually having a greater work-load and more responsibilities than Western teenagers.

But yeah, I kind of agree that RPG stories were better back in the 90's. But a lot of the great stories back then were usually written (like novels), rather than voiced (like movies).

The modern day scenario you use is not the same as a gun may take some experience to use but it takes very little compared to the experience needed for a sword.

And there may be exceptions to the rule but those exceptions usually have a reason which tends to be underestimating to blind luck or unfair advantages.

And your example is using armies when I am talking about individuals.

An army of well trained soldiers could be crap if their leader is an idiot.

Unlike an individual a large force will rely on authority for what decisions they make.

My argument is about an inexperienced individual who barely has any training with a sword going against a veteran who has 2-3 decades on the battlefield.

And really that is just one pet peeve I had which I could ignore if there weren't more things that bug me about the current situation with most JRPGs.

I wouldn't mind seeing new JRPGs that are as good as Suikoden II.