You could go through the ESRB rating you know. I go to this site, because i trust the input this site has without any bias. That's why i look at them. I should not go to any other site when they aren't doing their job
Really? All the ESRB will say is "Strong language". What constitutes strong language? Is it one "mother fucker" through the entire game? Is it four "mother fuckers" in a single line of dialogue? Is it a bunch of "shits" and "assholes" and "suck my dicks" through the entire game? The ESRB is not a good, informative source of what content is in the game. The REVIEW is. Like I said, you can't actually know to what DEGREE possible offending content is in a game until you actually play it.. I'll give you a good example. Kevin's Bulletstorm review criticized the game for its excessive profanity. He said that it got old quick, and became very unfunny. That obviously is subjective, because personally I found it to be one of the game's charming features. It bothered Kevin; it didn't bother me. GTA V's misogyny bothered Carolyn; it didn't bother me. These criticisms come from personal experiences that are informational to readers who think like them. Their reviews still work well, because those criticisms that don't matter to people who have no issue with said content are easily ignored.
And without any bias? Come on, dude... you've been around this site long enough to know this site's never been without bias. Don't start spouting things you don't believe in to try to prove a point.
Then why are all the other reviews that Carolyn has not done have no feminism, religion or poltical agenda behind them? You can just look at Mark Waltons review of GTA. He did it perferctly. Without any bias mention. He told us what the game is and how it plays. Gave it a 9. That's it
Actually, if you've read her other work on this site like I have, you would notice she very often put her spin on things. I recall in particular one article about how E3 was sexist because of the booth babes among other things. I also know she has had qualms with other games because of perceived "sexism", but I can't recall the exact ones atm.
It's amazing to me she kept her job here for as long as she did. Her reviews were usually filled with bias.
and you posted this on gamespot? the most atrocious review site for social justice warriors wannabes that feel the need to cram their LGBT/******** point of view into everything they do?
Actually you are dead wrong here, Gamespot, Giantbomb and IGN are actually not even close to be in the top 10 of horrible SJW/Gamersgate/feminist/liberal sites out there. Particular not Gamespot after it slaughtere a huge chunk of its staff, among them Carolyn and Tom.
Polygon and Kotaku are the absolute peak of the mountain and they dont even hide the fact that they are like that, which just makes it even worse that a guy like Patrick Klepek felt the need to leave Giantbomb for Kotaku..... but it might be a sign that Kotaku wants to turn into a real gaming media site.
yeah Tom and Carolyn were bad. But they're still part of the San Fran mentality though. Just look at Kevin Van Ord it's the height of stupidity
Loading Video...
What better way to demonstrate the poignancy of this video than to post it in such a dismissive manner....
and you posted this on gamespot? the most atrocious review site for social justice warriors wannabes that feel the need to cram their LGBT/******** point of view into everything they do?
Actually you are dead wrong here, Gamespot, Giantbomb and IGN are actually not even close to be in the top 10 of horrible SJW/Gamersgate/feminist/liberal sites out there. Particular not Gamespot after it slaughtere a huge chunk of its staff, among them Carolyn and Tom.
Polygon and Kotaku are the absolute peak of the mountain and they dont even hide the fact that they are like that, which just makes it even worse that a guy like Patrick Klepek felt the need to leave Giantbomb for Kotaku..... but it might be a sign that Kotaku wants to turn into a real gaming media site.
yeah Tom and Carolyn were bad. But they're still part of the San Fran mentality though. Just look at Kevin Van Ord it's the height of stupidity
Loading Video...
What better way to demonstrate the poignancy of this video than to post it in such a dismissive manner....
So because we think is garbage it is not garbage? nice logic
and you posted this on gamespot? the most atrocious review site for social justice warriors wannabes that feel the need to cram their LGBT/******** point of view into everything they do?
Actually you are dead wrong here, Gamespot, Giantbomb and IGN are actually not even close to be in the top 10 of horrible SJW/Gamersgate/feminist/liberal sites out there. Particular not Gamespot after it slaughtere a huge chunk of its staff, among them Carolyn and Tom.
Polygon and Kotaku are the absolute peak of the mountain and they dont even hide the fact that they are like that, which just makes it even worse that a guy like Patrick Klepek felt the need to leave Giantbomb for Kotaku..... but it might be a sign that Kotaku wants to turn into a real gaming media site.
yeah Tom and Carolyn were bad. But they're still part of the San Fran mentality though. Just look at Kevin Van Ord it's the height of stupidity
Loading Video...
What better way to demonstrate the poignancy of this video than to post it in such a dismissive manner....
So because we think is garbage it is not garbage? nice logic
Continue to deny it, and it only further solidifies the video's points. I'm not a fan of Feminist Frequency at all, but a lot of what's said in that video is pretty damn true, such as the fact that male gamers are NEVER harassed because of their gender.
and you posted this on gamespot? the most atrocious review site for social justice warriors wannabes that feel the need to cram their LGBT/******** point of view into everything they do?
Actually you are dead wrong here, Gamespot, Giantbomb and IGN are actually not even close to be in the top 10 of horrible SJW/Gamersgate/feminist/liberal sites out there. Particular not Gamespot after it slaughtere a huge chunk of its staff, among them Carolyn and Tom.
Polygon and Kotaku are the absolute peak of the mountain and they dont even hide the fact that they are like that, which just makes it even worse that a guy like Patrick Klepek felt the need to leave Giantbomb for Kotaku..... but it might be a sign that Kotaku wants to turn into a real gaming media site.
yeah Tom and Carolyn were bad. But they're still part of the San Fran mentality though. Just look at Kevin Van Ord it's the height of stupidity
Loading Video...
What better way to demonstrate the poignancy of this video than to post it in such a dismissive manner....
Agreed. I found that video to be pretty much spot-on.
What better way to demonstrate the poignancy of this video than to post it in such a dismissive manner....
You are right and you prove that circular logic isn't just amazing its also something you excel in.
But the video is horrible because it uses the same kind of logic a 4 year old would use to explain why chocolate before bedtime is good. Not to mention it tries to paint a painting that you could just as easy paint towards any female.
@JustPlainLucas: this video is full of fallacies and these journalists support it...
Ok. Let's discuss this then.
1. I can choose to remain completely oblivious, or indifferent to the harassment that many women face in gaming spaces.
You are exhibiting this right now.
2. I am never told that video games or the surrounding culture is not intended for me because I am male.
Yes, you will NEVER be told, or ever HEAR that males shouldn't be playing games. Yet, I've heard the opposite with females a few times. There are articles by female gamers that have to prove to male gamers they are actual real gamers. Aisha Tyler is one of them.
3. I can publicly post my username, gamertag or contact information online without having to fear being stalked or sexually harassed because of my gender.
Yep, because when was the last time you heard of a male gamer getting doxed?
4. I will never be asked to “prove my gaming cred” simply because of my gender.
I refer you to Aisha Tyler.
5. If I enthusiastically express my fondness for video games no one will automatically assume I’m faking my interest just to “get attention” from other gamers.
Never heard this one? I have. In fact, I was once playing XBL with a girlfriend of mine and we had a 15 minute conversation with a dude who joined the room and thought my girlfriend was just on to chat with me and not interested in gaming itself. She had to run down all the games we actively played together. You will never be suspected of faking your interest in games if you're a guy, that's for certain. In fact, it's almost expected that you're a gamer for being a guy.
6. I can look at practically any gaming website, show, or magazine and see the voices of people of my own gender widely represented.
Yes, male representation is strong in just about every outlet. That's not to say you don't see female representation, because you do, just not anywhere on the same level as males. Also, many male editors are geeky and average looking while most female editors that grace the camera are pretty enough to be on magazines. Hmm...
7. When I go to a gaming event or convention, I can be relatively certain that I won’t be harassed, groped, propositioned or catcalled by total strangers.
So you don't think this happens? I haven't seen it personally, because I don't go to conventions, but I've most certainly heard about it happening before. However... I've never heard of a male gamer at a con being harassed, groped, propositioned or catcalled.
8. I will never be asked or expected to speak for all other gamers who share my gender.
Heard a lot about feminism in gaming lately. Can't say I've heard much about masculism (I know that isn't an official word). Feminists have to fight for equal representation for depictions in video games and job equality in the industry. Men don't. They already HAVE that right. Anita Sarkeesian either chose or was chosen as a spokesperson (and yes, there are feminists who don't agree with her as one) for female gamers, but male gamers don't have one. They don't need one.
9. I can be sure that my gaming performance (good or bad) won’t be attributed to or reflect on my gender as a whole.
Yep, another stigma. Sure, not EVERY male gamer thinks that female gamers are bad at games but NO female gamer thinks that just because you're a male, you're bad at games.
10. My gaming ability will never be called into question based on unrelated natural biological functions.
Ok, this is a rewording of 9, so my comment is the same.
11. I can be relatively sure my thoughts about video games won’t be dismissed or attacked based solely on my tone of voice, even if I speak in an aggressive, obnoxious, crude or flippant manner.
Let's just be honest here. It's cool for male gamers to rant against feminism, but any female gamer that rants in the same loud obnoxious manner as say... AlphaOmegaSin, would automatically be labeled a ********, a crazy psycho **** bitch or some other colorful euphemism.
12. I can openly say that my favorite games are casual, odd, non-violent, artistic, or cute without fear that my opinions will reinforce a stereotype that “men are not real gamers.”
There were studies conducted to PROVE that a large number of female gamers weren't just Farmville or mobile game players. Come on, tell me you haven't heard someone stupidly say "women aren't real gamers". I have. I have also never heard "men are not real gamers".
13. When purchasing most major video games in a store, chances are I will not be asked if (or assumed to be) buying it for a wife, daughter or girlfriend.
Personal experience. I was at GameSpot one time when a woman was buying a Gears of War game (don't remember which one), and the clerk said, "So, is this for your husband or son?" She scoffed and said it was for her. I had to laugh, because the clerk looked pretty fucking embarrassed. I will bet you a thousand dollars you've never heard a clerk ask a guy if he's buying a Gears of War game for his wife or daughter.
14. The vast majority of game studios, past and present, have been led and populated primarily by people of my own gender and as such most of their products have been specifically designed to cater to my demographic.
It should be clear as day that this is an issue. Of course, the heart of the matter is trying to encourage more female gamers to enter the industry than expect the industry to start catering specifically to them, but it's a disaster, dude. Admit it. Just look at the bullshit that surrounded Remember Me, and the horrible HORRIBLE excuses Ubisoft used when defending Assassin's Creed: Unity. Again, females have to fight to get into this industry or at least do things their own way. Granted, it's getting better, but if we go 2015 without a single Remember Me or Unity debacle, than we can drop this.
15. I can walk into any gaming store and see images of my gender widely represented as powerful heroes, dastardly villains and non-playable characters alike.
Do me a favor. Go into a GameStop and count how many posters and cutouts contain male characters and then do the same for females. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts the ratio will be greatly lopsided.
16. I will almost always have the option to play a character of my gender, as most protagonists or heroes will be male by default.
Again, this should be clear as day. It's simply a numbers issue. Yes, there are many games that have female characters, but their number is greatly dwarfed by games starting male leads. Even many games with female leads people try to list as a counter are either oddball, indie or niche games most people have never heard of. The operative word here is default, and the default character in most games is simply male.
17. I do not have to carefully navigate my engagement with online communities or gaming spaces in order to avoid or mitigate the possibility of being harassed because of my gender.
Are you a woman who is speaking about video games? Guess what. You just raised the risk of getting yourself doxed. If you're a male, you can shout and cuss and be as obnoxious as you want, and no one gives a ****.
18. I probably never think about hiding my real-life gender online through my gamer-name, my avatar choice, or by muting voice-chat, out of fear of harassment resulting from my being male.
Ever played an MMO? Ever ran into a character who was male, and then you found out they were female? Ever ask why? Pretty sure the reason was so they wouldn't get constantly hit on by men. Yes, female avatars have been played by men all the time, but they usually choose to want to do it because they enjoy playing the opposite sex. They don't have to hide the fact that they're male.
19. When I enter an online game, I can be relatively sure I won’t be attacked or harassed when and if my real-life gender is made public
Another rewording, so my comment is the same.
20. If I am trash-talked or verbally berated while playing online, it will not be because I am male nor will my gender be invoked as an insult.
Males call males bitches all the time, yet, it carries a significantly different and more severe meaning when males call women bitches in gaming. Cunts, sluts, whores, skanks. All that. Let an ill-mannered male gamer lose to a female gamer and just watch how much nastier his expletives and tone gets.
21. While playing online with people I don’t know I won’t be interrogated about the size and shape of my real-life body parts, nor will I be pressured to share intimate details about my sex life for the pleasure of other players.
I refer you to 5. What ended that conversation was when he wanted to know how big my girlfriend's breasts were. Why is it you'll never hear a woman ask you how big your dick is on XBL? Probably because they're too busy trying to play the game and not fantasizing over "HOLY SHIT! There's a male gamer in the lobby!"
22. Complete strangers generally do not send me unsolicited images of their genitalia or demand to see me naked on the basis of being a male gamer.
If this ever happened, I can guarantee you it's never happened on the same frequency as males doing it to females. In fact, let's be honest here. We'd LOVE for random female gamers we never met to start filling our inboxes with pics of their breasts and vaginas.
23. In multiplayer games I can be pretty sure that conversations between other players will not focus on speculation about my “attractiveness” or “sexual availability” in real-life.
Personal experience again. Back in my FFXI days, we had a member tell us she was female. Just about everybody flipped out and wanted to know what she looked like. "Pics or didn't happen" type shit. Yet, when someone reveals they're a male, no one fucking cares.
24. If I choose to point out sexism in gaming, my observations will not be seen as self-serving, and will therefore be perceived as more credible and worthy of respect than those of my female counterparts, even if they are saying the exact same thing.
Of course you're not going to admit to this one.
25. Because it was created by a straight white man, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.
Well, in your case, it's being taken less seriously because it's from a male, not a female. With females, it's expected of them to want to speak out about sexism, but if a man does it, he's automatically an idiot and some kind of traitor to his own gender....
Then, there's the closing.
These benefits should not be reserved for men.
This list is not meant to suggest that male gamers are always treated well. Sometimes we are bullied or subjected to online nastiness, but it is not based on or because of our gender.
In order to make change first we need to acknowledge the problem, and then we must take responsibility for it as a community, so we can actively work together, with people of all genders, to dismantle the parts of gaming culture that perpetuate these imbalances.
All people, of all genders, must be treated with respect and dignity.
Together, we can make gaming better.
Together, we will make gaming better.
Yes, we NEVER are bullied, harassed, stalked, talked down to, in our gaming because of our gender. It just doesn't happen. You might have a feminist try to dismiss your argument because you're a male, but think why that is. They have to fight for a place in this community and in this industry while we've taken that right for granted. Not thinking there's an issue is the very definition of privilege. Yes, things are improving, but what you're doing, by simply not acknowledging the issue, is not helping things to improve any faster.
All people, of all genders, must be treated with respect and dignity, and that is not a fallacy. That most certainly is not anything you can refute or rebut. I personally have seen the other gender mistreated in my gaming community. More gamers by the day are not calling themselves gamers because they don't want to be associated with those jackasses who call female gamers online bitches and cunts and whores and shit just for expressing a fucking opinion. I want that to stop.
And what's wrong with encouraging better representation in gaming? That isn't going to take away your video games. It isn't going to making them anymore different. It's just giving more options to more people. Diversity and inclusiveness aren't bad things. Yes, it also harmful to demand that studios who never made games with female leads suddenly start making them, because that goes against their creative freedom. Still, there is NOTHING wrong with having that discussion. That's all it boils down to, having that discussion on the table, being considered and acknowledged.
Sometimes i wish i wasn't as lazy to destroy these feminists dumb arguments, but then again i am, maybe tomorrow, for now let's just say, SJWs are garbage.
What better way to demonstrate the poignancy of this video than to post it in such a dismissive manner....
You are right and you prove that circular logic isn't just amazing its also something you excel in.
But the video is horrible because it uses the same kind of logic a 4 year old would use to explain why chocolate before bedtime is good. Not to mention it tries to paint a painting that you could just as easy paint towards any female.
I dunno... I usually don't agree with Feminist Frequency, but there was something about this list that just made sense to me. Also, I'm not sure you could flip most of these back on female gamers, because these are issues that simply don't exist, or on the same level, for male gamers.
Sometimes i wish i wasn't as lazy to destroy these feminists dumb arguments, but then again i am, maybe tomorrow, for now let's just say, SJWs are garbage.
How about we start agreeing that term SJW is garbage? Because I'm honestly getting sick and tired of hearing it.
What better way to demonstrate the poignancy of this video than to post it in such a dismissive manner....
You are right and you prove that circular logic isn't just amazing its also something you excel in.
But the video is horrible because it uses the same kind of logic a 4 year old would use to explain why chocolate before bedtime is good. Not to mention it tries to paint a painting that you could just as easy paint towards any female.
I dunno... I usually don't agree with Feminist Frequency, but there was something about this list that just made sense to me. Also, I'm not sure you could flip most of these back on female gamers, because these are issues that simply don't exist, or on the same level, for male gamers.
Yes the list used the same circular logic you did before. Not to mention that such a list could just as easily be made for females and all the benefits they have that us males don't - like no one will complain if they have a entire tournament just for their sex, or the tons of cash, gifts and other benefits they have because us men will jump on our heads if a women asked.
Also some of the list is just hilarious because its just a huge insult against us men and females should be proud that they are not that dumb.
Sometimes i wish i wasn't as lazy to destroy these feminists dumb arguments, but then again i am, maybe tomorrow, for now let's just say, SJWs are garbage.
How about we start agreeing that term SJW is garbage? Because I'm honestly getting sick and tired of hearing it.
Sometimes i wish i wasn't as lazy to destroy these feminists dumb arguments, but then again i am, maybe tomorrow, for now let's just say, SJWs are garbage.
How about we start agreeing that term SJW is garbage? Because I'm honestly getting sick and tired of hearing it.
@JustPlainLucas: this video is full of fallacies and these journalists support it...
Ok. Let's discuss this then.
1. I can choose to remain completely oblivious, or indifferent to the harassment that many women face in gaming spaces.
You are exhibiting this right now.
2. I am never told that video games or the surrounding culture is not intended for me because I am male.
Yes, you will NEVER be told, or ever HEAR that males shouldn't be playing games. Yet, I've heard the opposite with females a few times. There are articles by female gamers that have to prove to male gamers they are actual real gamers. Aisha Tyler is one of them.
3. I can publicly post my username, gamertag or contact information online without having to fear being stalked or sexually harassed because of my gender.
Yep, because when was the last time you heard of a male gamer getting doxed?
4. I will never be asked to “prove my gaming cred” simply because of my gender.
I refer you to Aisha Tyler.
5. If I enthusiastically express my fondness for video games no one will automatically assume I’m faking my interest just to “get attention” from other gamers.
Never heard this one? I have. In fact, I was once playing XBL with a girlfriend of mine and we had a 15 minute conversation with a dude who joined the room and thought my girlfriend was just on to chat with me and not interested in gaming itself. She had to run down all the games we actively played together. You will never be suspected of faking your interest in games if you're a guy, that's for certain. In fact, it's almost expected that you're a gamer for being a guy.
6. I can look at practically any gaming website, show, or magazine and see the voices of people of my own gender widely represented.
Yes, male representation is strong in just about every outlet. That's not to say you don't see female representation, because you do, just not anywhere on the same level as males. Also, many male editors are geeky and average looking while most female editors that grace the camera are pretty enough to be on magazines. Hmm...
7. When I go to a gaming event or convention, I can be relatively certain that I won’t be harassed, groped, propositioned or catcalled by total strangers.
So you don't think this happens? I haven't seen it personally, because I don't go to conventions, but I've most certainly heard about it happening before. However... I've never heard of a male gamer at a con being harassed, groped, propositioned or catcalled.
8. I will never be asked or expected to speak for all other gamers who share my gender.
Heard a lot about feminism in gaming lately. Can't say I've heard much about masculism (I know that isn't an official word). Feminists have to fight for equal representation for depictions in video games and job equality in the industry. Men don't. They already HAVE that right. Anita Sarkeesian either chose or was chosen as a spokesperson (and yes, there are feminists who don't agree with her as one) for female gamers, but male gamers don't have one. They don't need one.
9. I can be sure that my gaming performance (good or bad) won’t be attributed to or reflect on my gender as a whole.
Yep, another stigma. Sure, not EVERY male gamer thinks that female gamers are bad at games but NO female gamer thinks that just because you're a male, you're bad at games.
10. My gaming ability will never be called into question based on unrelated natural biological functions.
Ok, this is a rewording of 9, so my comment is the same.
11. I can be relatively sure my thoughts about video games won’t be dismissed or attacked based solely on my tone of voice, even if I speak in an aggressive, obnoxious, crude or flippant manner.
Let's just be honest here. It's cool for male gamers to rant against feminism, but any female gamer that rants in the same loud obnoxious manner as say... AlphaOmegaSin, would automatically be labeled a ********, a crazy psycho **** bitch or some other colorful euphemism.
12. I can openly say that my favorite games are casual, odd, non-violent, artistic, or cute without fear that my opinions will reinforce a stereotype that “men are not real gamers.”
There were studies conducted to PROVE that a large number of female gamers weren't just Farmville or mobile game players. Come on, tell me you haven't heard someone stupidly say "women aren't real gamers". I have. I have also never heard "men are not real gamers".
13. When purchasing most major video games in a store, chances are I will not be asked if (or assumed to be) buying it for a wife, daughter or girlfriend.
Personal experience. I was at GameSpot one time when a woman was buying a Gears of War game (don't remember which one), and the clerk said, "So, is this for your husband or son?" She scoffed and said it was for her. I had to laugh, because the clerk looked pretty fucking embarrassed. I will bet you a thousand dollars you've never heard a clerk ask a guy if he's buying a Gears of War game for his wife or daughter.
14. The vast majority of game studios, past and present, have been led and populated primarily by people of my own gender and as such most of their products have been specifically designed to cater to my demographic.
It should be clear as day that this is an issue. Of course, the heart of the matter is trying to encourage more female gamers to enter the industry than expect the industry to start catering specifically to them, but it's a disaster, dude. Admit it. Just look at the bullshit that surrounded Remember Me, and the horrible HORRIBLE excuses Ubisoft used when defending Assassin's Creed: Unity. Again, females have to fight to get into this industry or at least do things their own way. Granted, it's getting better, but if we go 2015 without a single Remember Me or Unity debacle, than we can drop this.
15. I can walk into any gaming store and see images of my gender widely represented as powerful heroes, dastardly villains and non-playable characters alike.
Do me a favor. Go into a GameStop and count how many posters and cutouts contain male characters and then do the same for females. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts the ratio will be greatly lopsided.
16. I will almost always have the option to play a character of my gender, as most protagonists or heroes will be male by default.
Again, this should be clear as day. It's simply a numbers issue. Yes, there are many games that have female characters, but their number is greatly dwarfed by games starting male leads. Even many games with female leads people try to list as a counter are either oddball, indie or niche games most people have never heard of. The operative word here is default, and the default character in most games is simply male.
17. I do not have to carefully navigate my engagement with online communities or gaming spaces in order to avoid or mitigate the possibility of being harassed because of my gender.
Are you a woman who is speaking about video games? Guess what. You just raised the risk of getting yourself doxed. If you're a male, you can shout and cuss and be as obnoxious as you want, and no one gives a ****.
18. I probably never think about hiding my real-life gender online through my gamer-name, my avatar choice, or by muting voice-chat, out of fear of harassment resulting from my being male.
Ever played an MMO? Ever ran into a character who was male, and then you found out they were female? Ever ask why? Pretty sure the reason was so they wouldn't get constantly hit on by men. Yes, female avatars have been played by men all the time, but they usually choose to want to do it because they enjoy playing the opposite sex. They don't have to hide the fact that they're male.
19. When I enter an online game, I can be relatively sure I won’t be attacked or harassed when and if my real-life gender is made public
Another rewording, so my comment is the same.
20. If I am trash-talked or verbally berated while playing online, it will not be because I am male nor will my gender be invoked as an insult.
Males call males bitches all the time, yet, it carries a significantly different and more severe meaning when males call women bitches in gaming. Cunts, sluts, whores, skanks. All that. Let an ill-mannered male gamer lose to a female gamer and just watch how much nastier his expletives and tone gets.
21. While playing online with people I don’t know I won’t be interrogated about the size and shape of my real-life body parts, nor will I be pressured to share intimate details about my sex life for the pleasure of other players.
I refer you to 5. What ended that conversation was when he wanted to know how big my girlfriend's breasts were. Why is it you'll never hear a woman ask you how big your dick is on XBL? Probably because they're too busy trying to play the game and not fantasizing over "HOLY SHIT! There's a male gamer in the lobby!"
22. Complete strangers generally do not send me unsolicited images of their genitalia or demand to see me naked on the basis of being a male gamer.
If this ever happened, I can guarantee you it's never happened on the same frequency as males doing it to females. In fact, let's be honest here. We'd LOVE for random female gamers we never met to start filling our inboxes with pics of their breasts and vaginas.
23. In multiplayer games I can be pretty sure that conversations between other players will not focus on speculation about my “attractiveness” or “sexual availability” in real-life.
Personal experience again. Back in my FFXI days, we had a member tell us she was female. Just about everybody flipped out and wanted to know what she looked like. "Pics or didn't happen" type shit. Yet, when someone reveals they're a male, no one fucking cares.
24. If I choose to point out sexism in gaming, my observations will not be seen as self-serving, and will therefore be perceived as more credible and worthy of respect than those of my female counterparts, even if they are saying the exact same thing.
Of course you're not going to admit to this one.
25. Because it was created by a straight white man, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.
Well, in your case, it's being taken less seriously because it's from a male, not a female. With females, it's expected of them to want to speak out about sexism, but if a man does it, he's automatically an idiot and some kind of traitor to his own gender....
Then, there's the closing.
These benefits should not be reserved for men.
This list is not meant to suggest that male gamers are always treated well. Sometimes we are bullied or subjected to online nastiness, but it is not based on or because of our gender.
In order to make change first we need to acknowledge the problem, and then we must take responsibility for it as a community, so we can actively work together, with people of all genders, to dismantle the parts of gaming culture that perpetuate these imbalances.
All people, of all genders, must be treated with respect and dignity.
Together, we can make gaming better.
Together, we will make gaming better.
Yes, we NEVER are bullied, harassed, stalked, talked down to, in our gaming because of our gender. It just doesn't happen. You might have a feminist try to dismiss your argument because you're a male, but think why that is. They have to fight for a place in this community and in this industry while we've taken that right for granted. Not thinking there's an issue is the very definition of privilege. Yes, things are improving, but what you're doing, by simply not acknowledging the issue, is not helping things to improve any faster.
All people, of all genders, must be treated with respect and dignity, and that is not a fallacy. That most certainly is not anything you can refute or rebut. I personally have seen the other gender mistreated in my gaming community. More gamers by the day are not calling themselves gamers because they don't want to be associated with those jackasses who call female gamers online bitches and cunts and whores and shit just for expressing a fucking opinion. I want that to stop.
And what's wrong with encouraging better representation in gaming? That isn't going to take away your video games. It isn't going to making them anymore different. It's just giving more options to more people. Diversity and inclusiveness aren't bad things. Yes, it also harmful to demand that studios who never made games with female leads suddenly start making them, because that goes against their creative freedom. Still, there is NOTHING wrong with having that discussion. That's all it boils down to, having that discussion on the table, being considered and acknowledged.
@JustPlainLucas: this video is full of fallacies and these journalists support it...
Ok. Let's discuss this then.
1. I can choose to remain completely oblivious, or indifferent to the harassment that many women face in gaming spaces.
You are exhibiting this right now.
2. I am never told that video games or the surrounding culture is not intended for me because I am male.
Yes, you will NEVER be told, or ever HEAR that males shouldn't be playing games. Yet, I've heard the opposite with females a few times. There are articles by female gamers that have to prove to male gamers they are actual real gamers. Aisha Tyler is one of them.
3. I can publicly post my username, gamertag or contact information online without having to fear being stalked or sexually harassed because of my gender.
Yep, because when was the last time you heard of a male gamer getting doxed?
4. I will never be asked to “prove my gaming cred” simply because of my gender.
I refer you to Aisha Tyler.
5. If I enthusiastically express my fondness for video games no one will automatically assume I’m faking my interest just to “get attention” from other gamers.
Never heard this one? I have. In fact, I was once playing XBL with a girlfriend of mine and we had a 15 minute conversation with a dude who joined the room and thought my girlfriend was just on to chat with me and not interested in gaming itself. She had to run down all the games we actively played together. You will never be suspected of faking your interest in games if you're a guy, that's for certain. In fact, it's almost expected that you're a gamer for being a guy.
6. I can look at practically any gaming website, show, or magazine and see the voices of people of my own gender widely represented.
Yes, male representation is strong in just about every outlet. That's not to say you don't see female representation, because you do, just not anywhere on the same level as males. Also, many male editors are geeky and average looking while most female editors that grace the camera are pretty enough to be on magazines. Hmm...
7. When I go to a gaming event or convention, I can be relatively certain that I won’t be harassed, groped, propositioned or catcalled by total strangers.
So you don't think this happens? I haven't seen it personally, because I don't go to conventions, but I've most certainly heard about it happening before. However... I've never heard of a male gamer at a con being harassed, groped, propositioned or catcalled.
8. I will never be asked or expected to speak for all other gamers who share my gender.
Heard a lot about feminism in gaming lately. Can't say I've heard much about masculism (I know that isn't an official word). Feminists have to fight for equal representation for depictions in video games and job equality in the industry. Men don't. They already HAVE that right. Anita Sarkeesian either chose or was chosen as a spokesperson (and yes, there are feminists who don't agree with her as one) for female gamers, but male gamers don't have one. They don't need one.
9. I can be sure that my gaming performance (good or bad) won’t be attributed to or reflect on my gender as a whole.
Yep, another stigma. Sure, not EVERY male gamer thinks that female gamers are bad at games but NO female gamer thinks that just because you're a male, you're bad at games.
10. My gaming ability will never be called into question based on unrelated natural biological functions.
Ok, this is a rewording of 9, so my comment is the same.
11. I can be relatively sure my thoughts about video games won’t be dismissed or attacked based solely on my tone of voice, even if I speak in an aggressive, obnoxious, crude or flippant manner.
Let's just be honest here. It's cool for male gamers to rant against feminism, but any female gamer that rants in the same loud obnoxious manner as say... AlphaOmegaSin, would automatically be labeled a ********, a crazy psycho **** bitch or some other colorful euphemism.
12. I can openly say that my favorite games are casual, odd, non-violent, artistic, or cute without fear that my opinions will reinforce a stereotype that “men are not real gamers.”
There were studies conducted to PROVE that a large number of female gamers weren't just Farmville or mobile game players. Come on, tell me you haven't heard someone stupidly say "women aren't real gamers". I have. I have also never heard "men are not real gamers".
13. When purchasing most major video games in a store, chances are I will not be asked if (or assumed to be) buying it for a wife, daughter or girlfriend.
Personal experience. I was at GameSpot one time when a woman was buying a Gears of War game (don't remember which one), and the clerk said, "So, is this for your husband or son?" She scoffed and said it was for her. I had to laugh, because the clerk looked pretty fucking embarrassed. I will bet you a thousand dollars you've never heard a clerk ask a guy if he's buying a Gears of War game for his wife or daughter.
14. The vast majority of game studios, past and present, have been led and populated primarily by people of my own gender and as such most of their products have been specifically designed to cater to my demographic.
It should be clear as day that this is an issue. Of course, the heart of the matter is trying to encourage more female gamers to enter the industry than expect the industry to start catering specifically to them, but it's a disaster, dude. Admit it. Just look at the bullshit that surrounded Remember Me, and the horrible HORRIBLE excuses Ubisoft used when defending Assassin's Creed: Unity. Again, females have to fight to get into this industry or at least do things their own way. Granted, it's getting better, but if we go 2015 without a single Remember Me or Unity debacle, than we can drop this.
15. I can walk into any gaming store and see images of my gender widely represented as powerful heroes, dastardly villains and non-playable characters alike.
Do me a favor. Go into a GameStop and count how many posters and cutouts contain male characters and then do the same for females. I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts the ratio will be greatly lopsided.
16. I will almost always have the option to play a character of my gender, as most protagonists or heroes will be male by default.
Again, this should be clear as day. It's simply a numbers issue. Yes, there are many games that have female characters, but their number is greatly dwarfed by games starting male leads. Even many games with female leads people try to list as a counter are either oddball, indie or niche games most people have never heard of. The operative word here is default, and the default character in most games is simply male.
17. I do not have to carefully navigate my engagement with online communities or gaming spaces in order to avoid or mitigate the possibility of being harassed because of my gender.
Are you a woman who is speaking about video games? Guess what. You just raised the risk of getting yourself doxed. If you're a male, you can shout and cuss and be as obnoxious as you want, and no one gives a ****.
18. I probably never think about hiding my real-life gender online through my gamer-name, my avatar choice, or by muting voice-chat, out of fear of harassment resulting from my being male.
Ever played an MMO? Ever ran into a character who was male, and then you found out they were female? Ever ask why? Pretty sure the reason was so they wouldn't get constantly hit on by men. Yes, female avatars have been played by men all the time, but they usually choose to want to do it because they enjoy playing the opposite sex. They don't have to hide the fact that they're male.
19. When I enter an online game, I can be relatively sure I won’t be attacked or harassed when and if my real-life gender is made public
Another rewording, so my comment is the same.
20. If I am trash-talked or verbally berated while playing online, it will not be because I am male nor will my gender be invoked as an insult.
Males call males bitches all the time, yet, it carries a significantly different and more severe meaning when males call women bitches in gaming. Cunts, sluts, whores, skanks. All that. Let an ill-mannered male gamer lose to a female gamer and just watch how much nastier his expletives and tone gets.
21. While playing online with people I don’t know I won’t be interrogated about the size and shape of my real-life body parts, nor will I be pressured to share intimate details about my sex life for the pleasure of other players.
I refer you to 5. What ended that conversation was when he wanted to know how big my girlfriend's breasts were. Why is it you'll never hear a woman ask you how big your dick is on XBL? Probably because they're too busy trying to play the game and not fantasizing over "HOLY SHIT! There's a male gamer in the lobby!"
22. Complete strangers generally do not send me unsolicited images of their genitalia or demand to see me naked on the basis of being a male gamer.
If this ever happened, I can guarantee you it's never happened on the same frequency as males doing it to females. In fact, let's be honest here. We'd LOVE for random female gamers we never met to start filling our inboxes with pics of their breasts and vaginas.
23. In multiplayer games I can be pretty sure that conversations between other players will not focus on speculation about my “attractiveness” or “sexual availability” in real-life.
Personal experience again. Back in my FFXI days, we had a member tell us she was female. Just about everybody flipped out and wanted to know what she looked like. "Pics or didn't happen" type shit. Yet, when someone reveals they're a male, no one fucking cares.
24. If I choose to point out sexism in gaming, my observations will not be seen as self-serving, and will therefore be perceived as more credible and worthy of respect than those of my female counterparts, even if they are saying the exact same thing.
Of course you're not going to admit to this one.
25. Because it was created by a straight white man, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.
Well, in your case, it's being taken less seriously because it's from a male, not a female. With females, it's expected of them to want to speak out about sexism, but if a man does it, he's automatically an idiot and some kind of traitor to his own gender....
Then, there's the closing.
These benefits should not be reserved for men.
This list is not meant to suggest that male gamers are always treated well. Sometimes we are bullied or subjected to online nastiness, but it is not based on or because of our gender.
In order to make change first we need to acknowledge the problem, and then we must take responsibility for it as a community, so we can actively work together, with people of all genders, to dismantle the parts of gaming culture that perpetuate these imbalances.
All people, of all genders, must be treated with respect and dignity.
Together, we can make gaming better.
Together, we will make gaming better.
Yes, we NEVER are bullied, harassed, stalked, talked down to, in our gaming because of our gender. It just doesn't happen. You might have a feminist try to dismiss your argument because you're a male, but think why that is. They have to fight for a place in this community and in this industry while we've taken that right for granted. Not thinking there's an issue is the very definition of privilege. Yes, things are improving, but what you're doing, by simply not acknowledging the issue, is not helping things to improve any faster.
All people, of all genders, must be treated with respect and dignity, and that is not a fallacy. That most certainly is not anything you can refute or rebut. I personally have seen the other gender mistreated in my gaming community. More gamers by the day are not calling themselves gamers because they don't want to be associated with those jackasses who call female gamers online bitches and cunts and whores and shit just for expressing a fucking opinion. I want that to stop.
And what's wrong with encouraging better representation in gaming? That isn't going to take away your video games. It isn't going to making them anymore different. It's just giving more options to more people. Diversity and inclusiveness aren't bad things. Yes, it also harmful to demand that studios who never made games with female leads suddenly start making them, because that goes against their creative freedom. Still, there is NOTHING wrong with having that discussion. That's all it boils down to, having that discussion on the table, being considered and acknowledged.
Loading Video...
wrong... I've been doxxed and harassed online, so you fail there. You fail to realize that man get harassed aswell, even more at times by studies.
Nobody is denying anyone to play games... It's not prohibited. So we are never told that we don't have anything better to do than playing games? Virgins, neckbeards, etc. Most gamers are male, most core gamers are just that. Just stop it.
Are you kidding me, i know lots of people who are male who have been doxxed, harassed, swatted, etc. Again you fail to realize this happens to males. To be honest that is ignorant dude.
Yes people are tested if they say they are is true. A lot of male and female pretend to be gamers. The reason for females being asked is because female pornstars or just females show their tits on camera for money. If you are competent in gaming you don't need to prove it.
No, that's not true. See my last post
How is that a privelege? Most men buy games... There are plenty of female protagonists. You should know this dude. Just look at this site, there are three females on it. There are even lots of articles representing females.
You have never heard any male gamer being touched? So that means it doesn't happen? Again, your assumption is wrong, look above.
You do know that that's what these idiots are doing? They claim this during the whole video to be talking for men?! Don't you see the double standard?
Have you ever been online? Being called feminine, gay, that you have a small dick, virgin, etc. Seriously dude, this is not attributed to one gender. People attack you the way they can.
What are they talking about? Periods?
So you've never ignored a male bitching online? What happens if a woman does this in real life? You get called a bitch if female, if you're male you can get your ass beat. This again applies to both genders. If you talk shit online you get shit back...
So there is no stereotype for men? How about what i mentioned earlier? Gamers are sterotyped to be living in the basement, fat, unemployed, virgin, etc. Do they get called that, just for being a woman. They don't get attacked that they're not real women. Females can easilty prove this by just playing games
Again, that's because most gamers are males. It's not a benefit. Go to something females usually do, go with a woman and they usually ask the woman what they think. Do you know why? Because that's what the general case is. It's not a benefit. How is your experience that one time bad? Just do as she does, scoff at it and say it is for you.
Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy 13, Bayonetta, etc. How about all the female magazines? Romantic novels? They're big for females, should we go in as men and say that this should target us more? No!
Again, look at my last point. There are plenty of female characters, i do want more. But they're ignoring the fact that there are females in games completely. Does this mean there aren't anyone? You do know some don't care about the gender of the character right? 30% of males even play as females when given the choice.
Men don't always have to play a different gender or even the same. We want to play a great game.
Again, this point is something i have debunked twice. Males get more harassment than women do. How the hell do you know that females automatically get doxxed? You are assuming again. How about Jack Thompson vs Anita Sarkeesian? He gets attacked, nobody cares, she gets threatened everyone freaks out. Double standard
You do know that female characters get better treatment? Like getting gold, help,etc? Have you ever said you were a female? People are more helpful towards females. I've played 3 MMO's with over 500 hours put into them, females were treated better everytime. Males are more emotionally stable vs women, it's just a fact. This has been observed in research
Again, i've touched this point. They keep making the same point several points. Males get told that they have small dicks, etc
OMG, this is something i've touched 4 times now
Again, this is something i've done 3 times now.
You can just say no? Ignore them?
Because males are generally thought out to be ugly and single?
What happens if a female points out sexism against men? I don't take these people serious because they're idiots. I don't take females serious when they're idiots. Look at the video i posted, Karen Straughan is the biggest youtuber on male rights. I rest my case
No, look at my last point. People don't get taken seriously because they're idiots.
Sometimes i wish i wasn't as lazy to destroy these feminists dumb arguments, but then again i am, maybe tomorrow, for now let's just say, SJWs are garbage.
How about we start agreeing that term SJW is garbage? Because I'm honestly getting sick and tired of hearing it.
It is a pretty fucking stupid term.
Not only that but it's also lost it's meaning completely "You think women are equal? You're just a stupid SJW!"
Most people who get called SJWs are not even SJWs. A term that would be more suited to actual SJWs would be narcissists, which would also suit Gamergaters as well.
@toast_burner: It's not a stupid term for stupid people.
Considering how inaccurate and misused it is, yes it is a stupid term used by stupid people.
That doesn't mean there aren't SJW's out there. There are lots of them out there, especially on Tumblr and twitter
And like I said it's inaccurate. They don't really care about social justice, they're narcissists who want everything to be about them (just like Gamergate)
@toast_burner: It's not a stupid term for stupid people.
Considering how inaccurate and misused it is, yes it is a stupid term used by stupid people.
That doesn't mean there aren't SJW's out there. There are lots of them out there, especially on Tumblr and twitter
And like I said it's inaccurate. They don't really care about social justice, they're narcissists who want everything to be about them (just like Gamergate)
i would disagree with you on GG, but the Warrior part is there because it's suppose to be ironic.
Nobody is denying anyone to play games... It's not prohibited. So we are never told that we don't have anything better to do than playing games? Virgins, neckbeards, etc. Most gamers are male, most core gamers are just that. Just stop it.
Straughan is referring to a different culture for the sake of her argument. The point in the 25 benefits video refers to the gaming community, Straughan is referring to 'mainstream' culture. Gamers aren't seen as virgins and neckbeards within the gaming community. Yet women are arguably suspicious in this male dominated space. They are the odd one out and have to prove themselves first. There's the subtle distinction between 'you're suspicious, until proven otherwise' and 'you're not suspicious, until proven otherwise'. The point is not that more women should be (core) gamers or that only men are seen as (core) gamers, the point is that women have an extra obstacle to overcome in order to show they're (core) gamers, because they are not part of the dominant group. The same might be applied to nursing, where the man might have to try harder to prove himself. In both cases we (men and women) assume things based on gender and in both cases I don't think we should. We should simply refrain from judging until we have actually seen what the person in question can do.
@The_Last_Ride said:
Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy 13, Bayonetta, etc. How about all the female magazines? Romantic novels? They're big for females, should we go in as men and say that this should target us more? No!
We should go in if enough men express an interest in the concept (and subjects) of romantic novels and want more representation. Most men aren't interested in romantic novels, though. As for how many women are interested in specific videogames, I think that's harder to accurately estimate. I doubt it'll ever be 50/50 (when taking specific genres and games into account), but I do think women are more interested than people generally think. Not to disrespect videogames, but I don't see them as that different from movies, which are appreciated across the board, but have a more diverse genre palette. I don't see any aspects in videogames I would consider specifically masculine (the idea that the action and violence based nature of most videogames is a masculine interest is gradually getting outdated, I think). As such, men's apparent interest and women's apparent disinterest in videogames seems to me more like a constructed attitude issue than an actual gender issue.
@The_Last_Ride said:
You do know that female characters get better treatment? Like getting gold, help,etc? Have you ever said you were a female? People are more helpful towards females. I've played 3 MMO's with over 500 hours put into them, females were treated better everytime. Males are more emotionally stable vs women, it's just a fact. This has been observed in research
Research does not dictate reality. It tries to observe general trends. Men being more emotionally stable than women does not apply to every individual male, nor does women being less emotionally stable than men apply to every individual female. We shouldn't assume that every individual woman we see is emotionally less stable just because research shows some average trend. Similarly, you can assume that women are less likely to like videogames based on research or statistics, but you shouldn't let that dictate how you treat an individual. General trends are to be considered, not to be used as laws to judge individuals, nor to dictate the creation of entertainment/art.
@The_Last_Ride said:
What happens if a female points out sexism against men? I don't take these people serious because they're idiots. I don't take females serious when they're idiots. Look at the video i posted, Karen Straughan is the biggest youtuber on male rights. I rest my case
It says little, if you ask me. All males passionately defending their rights will of course flock to any person of the opposite sex who is defending their rights. If the opposite sex is defending you (and apparently passionately), that's pretty much everything you can wish for. A female is defending my male rights, which must make my male rights even more correct. Youtube popularity says only so much. It doesn't make the points raised any more or less valid. Let's focus on the actual points she's making, not how popular she is on youtube.
As for your other points, I can generally agree that the 25 benefits video is an oversimplification of the issue, which is, as Straughan bluntly shows, very easy to bash. The video is so extreme in its statements, that it's relatively easy to question them. It's a video that, as so much youtube content, only caters to people who already agree with it. There's a general hostility on the internet that really doesn't discriminate (although the way people are approached might differ). I still hold the personal opinion that women are generally worse off when it comes to media depictions, but that's not something exclusive to videogames, nor is it something I think we should blame solely on men.
I think both sides are overreacting. I think 'feminists and sjw's' are exaggerating the harmful impact of questionable representation in videogames and I think they're also being inconsiderate when it comes to equally questionable representation of men. I think the 'anti-sjw's' are exaggerating the impact that 'feminists and sjw's' have on the actual videogames we all claim to care so much about (and they're giving them way too much attention in the process). In the end, as it seems to be with movies, market demand will prevail when it comes to the big titles and developers with a small budget might focus on creating alternative experiences for smaller markets. The same goes for the issues within videogame journalism. While I'm not denying the problems raised, I think they're blown out of proportion and people are too quick to see the demise of games, game journalism, the game industry, etc. On the internet, the line between professional and amateur is vague and the line between objective and subjective is largely irrelevant, since our generation is generally very adept at verifying information and adjusting what is offered to our personal preferences.
wrong... I've been doxxed and harassed online, so you fail there. You fail to realize that man get harassed aswell, even more at times by studies.
Nobody is denying anyone to play games... It's not prohibited. So we are never told that we don't have anything better to do than playing games? Virgins, neckbeards, etc. Most gamers are male, most core gamers are just that. Just stop it.
Are you kidding me, i know lots of people who are male who have been doxxed, harassed, swatted, etc. Again you fail to realize this happens to males. To be honest that is ignorant dude.
Yes people are tested if they say they are is true. A lot of male and female pretend to be gamers. The reason for females being asked is because female pornstars or just females show their tits on camera for money. If you are competent in gaming you don't need to prove it.
No, that's not true. See my last post
How is that a privelege? Most men buy games... There are plenty of female protagonists. You should know this dude. Just look at this site, there are three females on it. There are even lots of articles representing females.
You have never heard any male gamer being touched? So that means it doesn't happen? Again, your assumption is wrong, look above.
You do know that that's what these idiots are doing? They claim this during the whole video to be talking for men?! Don't you see the double standard?
Have you ever been online? Being called feminine, gay, that you have a small dick, virgin, etc. Seriously dude, this is not attributed to one gender. People attack you the way they can.
What are they talking about? Periods?
So you've never ignored a male bitching online? What happens if a woman does this in real life? You get called a bitch if female, if you're male you can get your ass beat. This again applies to both genders. If you talk shit online you get shit back...
So there is no stereotype for men? How about what i mentioned earlier? Gamers are sterotyped to be living in the basement, fat, unemployed, virgin, etc. Do they get called that, just for being a woman. They don't get attacked that they're not real women. Females can easilty prove this by just playing games
Again, that's because most gamers are males. It's not a benefit. Go to something females usually do, go with a woman and they usually ask the woman what they think. Do you know why? Because that's what the general case is. It's not a benefit. How is your experience that one time bad? Just do as she does, scoff at it and say it is for you.
Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy 13, Bayonetta, etc. How about all the female magazines? Romantic novels? They're big for females, should we go in as men and say that this should target us more? No!
Again, look at my last point. There are plenty of female characters, i do want more. But they're ignoring the fact that there are females in games completely. Does this mean there aren't anyone? You do know some don't care about the gender of the character right? 30% of males even play as females when given the choice.
Men don't always have to play a different gender or even the same. We want to play a great game.
Again, this point is something i have debunked twice. Males get more harassment than women do. How the hell do you know that females automatically get doxxed? You are assuming again. How about Jack Thompson vs Anita Sarkeesian? He gets attacked, nobody cares, she gets threatened everyone freaks out. Double standard
You do know that female characters get better treatment? Like getting gold, help,etc? Have you ever said you were a female? People are more helpful towards females. I've played 3 MMO's with over 500 hours put into them, females were treated better everytime. Males are more emotionally stable vs women, it's just a fact. This has been observed in research
Again, i've touched this point. They keep making the same point several points. Males get told that they have small dicks, etc
OMG, this is something i've touched 4 times now
Again, this is something i've done 3 times now.
You can just say no? Ignore them?
Because males are generally thought out to be ugly and single?
What happens if a female points out sexism against men? I don't take these people serious because they're idiots. I don't take females serious when they're idiots. Look at the video i posted, Karen Straughan is the biggest youtuber on male rights. I rest my case
No, look at my last point. People don't get taken seriously because they're idiots.
I need time to go over this. Just letting you know that I will reply. Just can't right since I'm at work.
Do you guys even know what you're still arguing about any more? I mean, men are different from women, one individual is different from the next individual, some of us like games, some of us don't, some people like this game, some that game.
If there's anything to be taken from all this it's that we're all very different individuals and it's really dumb to label people who are different from you.
Neither side will ever reach a unified conformity.
Do you guys even know what you're still arguing about any more? I mean, men are different from women, one individual is different from the next individual, some of us like games, some of us don't, some people like this game, some that game.
If there's anything to be taken from all this it's that we're all very different individuals and it's really dumb to label people who are different from you.
Neither side will ever reach a unified conformity.
Yeah, you're right. Can't believe this thread's been going on almost two months now. @The_Last_Ride I'm done. I just don't want to spend any more of my time on the issue.
Do you guys even know what you're still arguing about any more? I mean, men are different from women, one individual is different from the next individual, some of us like games, some of us don't, some people like this game, some that game.
If there's anything to be taken from all this it's that we're all very different individuals and it's really dumb to label people who are different from you.
Neither side will ever reach a unified conformity.
Yes we are arguing the idiocy of some feminists like Anita Sarkastic and her now cohort pretend indie game developer ZQ. Who unfortunately seem to be taken serious in some circles.
But you are right we will never reach common ground. But that doesn't mean she should stop being opposed,
Well, I agree that Sarkeesian is an awful, awful person, and that Zoe Quinn is a terrible girlfriend with bad morals, but I also feel that a lot of gamers are, in fact, the scumbag neck beards that some say they are.
I'm not going to pick sides and say one group is good while the other is bad, though. Screw GGs and SJWs. They can both go to hell as far as I'm concerned. :P
Well, I agree that Sarkeesian is an awful, awful person, and that Zoe Quinn is a terrible girlfriend with bad morals, but I also feel that a lot of gamers are, in fact, the scumbag neck beards that some say they are.
I'm not going to pick sides and say one group is good while the other is bad, though. Screw GGs and SJWs. They can both go to hell as far as I'm concerned. :P
Good way to put it. I'd go a bit further. Much of HUMANITY sucks hard. Not all of it, or even most, but enough to where it's a pain in the ass just to get a conversation in, because the morons are loudest.
However, the root issue of why this "debate" is so toxic isn't even the trolls. It's that neither of the two sides (GG or the SJWs) are willing to admit that there's nuance in this discussion. I sure as hell wouldn't judge black people based on Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, and I'm sure as hell not going to judge all people concerned about women in games by Anita Sarkeesian, or all gamers by the jackasses we see on Twitter.
Most of us don't want gaming to be a hostile environment for anyone.
Most of us also don't want political affiliation or agendas to determine how a game is discussed in public.
Most of us would love a more creative industry more willing to step out of the box every once in a while. Awesome, strong female protagonists are just one part of what would be cool to see.
Most of us also don't want games to be censored based on what's considered "Politically correct."
I'm not sure why these concepts are mutually exclusive to so many...
@YukoAsho: I agree with your vibe. Sadly, most people on the internet tend to behave worse than they do IRL. Instead of being positive about others' ideas and differences, we act more like monsters simply because there are no consequences for negative thoughts and judgements.
With so much diversity online, you'd think the different perspectives could bring creativity and innovation to fruition, instead of just mostly blind hate from our differences.
It's almost like we were made to be combative and prejudice from conception.
Pretty much. It's a closed circuit of people all patting each other on the backs for their political correctness and difference towards anyone who disagrees with them.
Pretty much. It's a closed circuit of people all patting each other on the backs for their political correctness and difference towards anyone who disagrees with them.
oh it's been revealed on my stream that Gawker(owner of Kotaku is getting sued again) and Brianna Wu is getting sued
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