Geoff Keighley: Sources say PS4 will have used games DRM.

 

This next gen is going to blow if Sony follows Microsoft's moves. Which at this point, it wouldn't surprise me at all. 

Vari3ty

If Microsoft starts landing some big time exclusives or other favorable deals with third parties, Sony will be quick to emulate Microsoft's revenue stream.

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]I thought Sony already said they weren't going to do it themselves, but that they'd let the publishers decide or not. Which, they could just as well do now on current gens.alexwatchtower

Why would you think that? Weren't Sony the ones who introduced the online pass? Don't worry, Sony will use more jelly when bending us over and tell us they love us. MS, those bastards, always going in dry and showing they don't care.:P

Let's break it down by political parties:

Sony - Democrats(by the people, for the people. they piss on you but hands you an umbrela.)

Microsoft - Liberals(as in free to stick it wherever they want)

Nintendo - Republicans(did you know they're still censoring butts and thongs when games get converted from Japan to the USA? and you thought they were done with this practice in the 90s....)

Ouya - The Tea Party(they'll be out across the street at E3 having their rally in case anyone wants to drop by.)

Nothing personal, but this is the worst attempt at analogy that I've come across in quite some time.

[QUOTE="GalvatronType_R"]And you are, without a doubt, the most useful, insightful, most hygienic, and handsomest person on this board and the rest of the internet.RandoIphF

Truth.

Sony ain't going to do it, but the publishers are. What's the difference?MirkoS77

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Sony ain't going to do it, but the publishers are. What's the difference?Black_Knight_00

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Sony ain't going to do it, but the publishers are. What's the difference?Black_Knight_00

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Sony ain't going to do it, but the publishers are. What's the difference?Black_Knight_00

You guys are setting yourselves up for a broken heart. Even if you're right, how long would it take before its common practice?

We already know EA and Capcom wants in on it.

SquareEnix is talking about even monetizing games pre-release now like doing some kickstarer-type deal.

I can pretty much bet on it that companies like Activision, UBI, and Epic are all aboard. You know Bethseda will want it(they were the first to introduce the famous rip off horse armor).

So who, realistically speaking, do you think would not be doing this? Any big names? Konami or Sega? ID? Rockstar? Who?

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Sony ain't going to do it, but the publishers are. What's the difference?MirkoS77

"Sources say...."

smh

Sources say a lot of shit, very little of which ever turns out to be true. Rumors are easy to start and easy to spread. What baffles me is people don't wait until some official word from the companies themselves before they start trowing a fit.

I'm not buying any system that blocks used games. I'll buy a WiiU and play Retro games. I'll wait for Sony or Microsoft to get hacked. You know hackers will be foaming at the mouth over this.

I'm not buying any system that blocks used games. I'll buy a WiiU and play Retro games. I'll wait for Sony or Microsoft to get hacked. You know hackers will be foaming at the mouth over this.

jdc6305

Well the hacker that hacked into MS last time is looking at jail time and currently threatening MS and the FBI that he's going to release stuff on Twitter...he posted bail....but he doesn't seem very bright. Whoever does it I hope they're brighter than him. 

After spending months in legal limbo, Henry now expects to be charged today.

The concept is simple really: if he doesnt log into his FTP server come Monday night (WA time), the IP address, username and password get tweeted from his account. Those details will give people read-only access to all of his key files.

Weve been given a peek inside the FTP server right now, and there are juicy files in there. We dont know the file contents, but if SuperDaE has what they say he has that is, information about the next Xbox that Microsoft doesnt want to get leaked (among other things)  its going to be a real fireworks display.

http://kotaku.com/next-gen-hacker-su...f-ga-509968073

The FTP, whose files are not yet accesible, supposedly contains material grabbed by SuperDaE's hacks into Gears of War and Unreal Engine developer Epic, World of Warcraft studio Blizzard, Sleeping Dogs dev house United Front Games and the now-shuttered publisher THQ, among others.

The FTP also apparently contains software development kits for the PS4, Xbox One and Wii U as well as possible old code for unreleased games such as Company of Heroes 2 and WWE 14. The Epic directory includes folders for Unreal Engine 4 and UE4 projects called Fortnite (an announced game), Kilo, Lima and Orion.

"It only leaks if I get arrested," SuperDaE told Kotaku today. Asked why he expected to be arrested, he said, "I'm not expecting anything. I'm just making a political statement."

Crisis averted it seems. LOL ;)

so next gen is nintendo win again ?

Terrible news if true.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

[QUOTE="ReddestSkies"]

Yep, we're witnessing the death of the gaming industry. Used game transactions, in which developers see none of the money, were the only thing holding it together. Soon, consoles will be like the PC: dead. With like, no games anymore. And no one playing on it.

ReddestSkies

Ok. I get it. You dont agree. You dont have to be a prick about it.

Well of course I don't agree. Gaming isn't going to die any time soon, obviously.

Terrible news if true.

Shame-usBlackley

I wasn't crazy about these features when Microsoft announced them and I no more thrilled hearing Sony may follow Microsoft.

Guess I'll wait until E3 to see just how bad or true any of these rumors are for the PS4, or the Xbox One for that matter. 

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

Terrible news if true.

Black_Knight_00

I know dude. I just can't imagine Sony doing this after:

A) Seeing the reaction to it from MS' reveal

And:

B) Seeing what an enormous potential selling point they have with the public to make a machine friendly to used sales.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

Terrible news if true.

Black_Knight_00

I know dude. I just can't imagine Sony doing this after:

A) Seeing the reaction to it from MS' reveal

And:

B) Seeing what an enormous potential selling point they have with the public to make a machine friendly to used sales.Shame-usBlackley

Anyway, if this is verified it speaks volumes on the state of the industry. Remember when console wars were fought ver who had the most powerful console and the best games? Now they are fought over who will f*ck the customer in the ass more gently.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]I know dude. I just can't imagine Sony doing this after:

A) Seeing the reaction to it from MS' reveal

And:

B) Seeing what an enormous potential selling point they have with the public to make a machine friendly to used sales.Black_Knight_00

Anyway, if this is verified it speaks volumes on the state of the industry. Remember when console wars were fought ver who had the most powerful console and the best games? Now they are fought over who will f*ck the customer in the ass more gently.

The gaf thread had insiders claiming they have changed their mind after seeing the reaction to MS's announcement. Apparently they ahve been struggling to go either way whether or not to support used games DRM. They are both getting pressure from publishers. Remember EA dropped the online pass recently and now we know why. MS was doing it for them. I bet EA and Ubisoft are busting Sony's balls at the moment forcing them to implement some form of DRM.

I wouldn't be surprised if it happen. Even if sony doesn't do it, most publisher will do it since sony is giving them the choice.

The gaf thread had insiders claiming they have changed their mind after seeing the reaction to MS's announcement. Apparently they ahve been struggling to go either way whether or not to support used games DRM. They are both getting pressure from publishers. Remember EA dropped the online pass recently and now we know why. MS was doing it for them. I bet EA and Ubisoft are busting Sony's balls at the moment forcing them to implement some form of DRM.S0lidSnake

Probably, but if I were Sony I'd just let them go rather than adopting used game restrictions. People will hate me for saying this but: do we really care if their games don't come to PS4? They're all on PC anyway, every last one of them, and FarCry 3 aside neither EA or Ubisoft have made a really great game in years: Assassin's Creed has been on a hamster wheel since Brotherhood, Rainbow Six and Prince of Persia are dead, Splinter Cell and Dead Space have become bro shooters, Battlefield 3 on consoles was tedious, Bioware and Crytek are halfway to the grave.Black_Knight_00

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] A pretty big difference: some, maybe most publishers might choose not to alienate the fanbase and pass on the used games block: after all, most publishers never adopted online passes.Black_Knight_00

And sure MS has lost customers, hell, I'm one of them and I've really enjoyed their products so far.  But do you believe I (or you) represent the majority?  I hate to say it, but I don't think the Xbone's new policies will be bad enough to turn away so many people.  From their reveal it's obvious that they are attempting to widely expand their audience even further past the core gamer demographic, a demographic that really couldn't be bothered by these new restrictions.  Many will not care, it's the painful truth.  You only need to look at Diablo III and Simcity to exemplify this.  With Simcity, many damn well KNEW it required online, and bought it in the millions.  Was it objected to?  Vehemently, but not because it was there, but only because it did not work.  Would the "alienated userbase" have even the slightest impact on Simcity's success had it worked? No.  MS has seen and knows this.  I know I'm talking about AO DRM here, but that's just as bad if not worse than no used games, and when properly executed it proves that it is STILL not enough to alienate enough users to be a failure.  Steam proves this.  So from that, on what basis do you believe banning used games will?  The simple truth is, they won't.

People are graspinig so desperately for any reason for Sony not doing this because they can't admit to themselves that this is the way things are going and that they will have give up many games if it happens, or just accept it and lose previous rights.  Sony will not be exempt, and I will be very surprised (and pleased) if the used market is not restricted heavily.  Sony has made it a point to keep it on the DL, and like someone else said, that speaks volumes.  From what I've seen they are not going to be so draconian and brash about its implementation as MS is, and it may not be as widespread at first, but they will try to slowly ease us into MS's direction over the coming years.

Why do the companies care so much about the used games, yeah I know people make money out of used games. So what, the game isn't theirs anymore. It's like Ford asking for money from my old truck that I sold last month, what's up with that, are these people nuts or what?piranha_inc

Well, see, it's because cars and trucks cost so much less to make than videogames. In fact, everything costs less to make than videogames, apparently.

Why do the companies care so much about the used games, yeah I know people make money out of used games. So what, the game isn't theirs anymore. It's like Ford asking for money from my old truck that I sold last month, what's up with that, are these people nuts or what?piranha_inc

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]The gaf thread had insiders claiming they have changed their mind after seeing the reaction to MS's announcement. Apparently they ahve been struggling to go either way whether or not to support used games DRM. They are both getting pressure from publishers. Remember EA dropped the online pass recently and now we know why. MS was doing it for them. I bet EA and Ubisoft are busting Sony's balls at the moment forcing them to implement some form of DRM.Black_Knight_00

lol 2:1? you just pulled that one out of your ass. :P

Gamers go where the games are. We've seen it time and time again. By letting those publishers go they are effectively handing the Xbox exclusives. That just wont happen. Sony makes nearly all its money from royalty fees, not profits from consoles sold. They wont throw away the entire business model just so you can trade in games to gamestop without letting the publisher have their cut. Both Sony and MS are in a shitty position. 

Sony hasn't outright stated that their console wont have always online. They were very vague about it and mostly stated the following:

• You will be able to play games offline
• You will be able to play used games.
• the console wont be always online.

Notice how all of the above applies to the Xbox One. If they were to implement DRM it would be the same as the Xbox One. CHeck in every 24 hours.

lol 2:1? you just pulled that one out of your ass. :P

Gamers go where the games are. We've seen it time and time again. By letting those publishers go they are effectively handing the Xbox exclusives. That just wont happen. Sony makes nearly all its money from royalty fees, not profits from consoles sold. They wont throw away the entire business model just so you can trade in games to gamestop without letting the publisher have their cut. Both Sony and MS are in a shitty position. 

Sony hasn't outright stated that their console wont have always online. They were very vague about it and mostly stated the following:

• You will be able to play games offline
• You will be able to play used games.
• the console wont be always online.

Notice how all of the above applies to the Xbox One. If they were to implement DRM it would be the same as the Xbox One. CHeck in every 24 hours.

S0lidSnake

It's the Xbone rumors discussion all over again.MirkoS77

And what are you trying to prove by citing that only 8 publishers did it? That strikes me as a huge amount and is an example that goes against your point. Name them?MirkoS77

Publishers using online passes:

505 Games
Activision (only for Prototype 2)
D3Publisher
Electronic Arts
Sony Computer Entertainment
THQ
Ubisoft
Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment

Publishers NOT using online passes: all of these, except the 8 mentioned above

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]The gaf thread had insiders claiming they have changed their mind after seeing the reaction to MS's announcement. Apparently they ahve been struggling to go either way whether or not to support used games DRM. They are both getting pressure from publishers. Remember EA dropped the online pass recently and now we know why. MS was doing it for them. I bet EA and Ubisoft are busting Sony's balls at the moment forcing them to implement some form of DRM.Black_Knight_00

Wow, you actually believe this crap?

So all Western developers suck and spikey hair is awesome? Like those companies aren't going to try and develop new series? Get real man! Japanese companies haven't done jack shit this past generation to keep up.  Square, Konami, Tecmo, all the big dogs other than Capcom/Sega/Nintendo and Sony's internal studio's have dropped like rocks. They didn't just fail in the West, but they have pretty much killed the console in Japan with their lack of output and creativity. No innovation out of Japan and no answer to the companies above you listed that have not only created big titles that started with new IP's but dominated so damn long, their IP's got stale. And the one that was worth a damn this past generation, Capcom, likes the idea of going digital.

Wow, you actually believe this crap?

So all Western developers suck and spikey hair is awesome? Like those companies aren't going to try and develop new series? Get real man! Japanese companies haven't done jack shit this past generation to keep up.  Square, Konami, Tecmo, all the big dogs other than Capcom/Sega/Nintendo and Sony's internal studio's have dropped like rocks. They didn't just fail in the West, but they have pretty much killed the console in Japan with their lack of output and creativity. No innovation out of Japan and no answer to the companies above you listed that have not only created big titles that started with new IP's but dominated so damn long, their IP's got stale. And the one that was worth a damn this past generation, Capcom, likes the idea of going digital.

alexwatchtower

How did you get all that from Black_Knight's post? He did he ever say Japan was somehow leagues ahead of all western developers? No. Stop projecting. I'm sure most of us can agree that Japan hasn't been on top of their game recently, but come on. That's not what we're discussing.

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

Wow, you actually believe this crap?

So all Western developers suck and spikey hair is awesome? Like those companies aren't going to try and develop new series? Get real man! Japanese companies haven't done jack shit this past generation to keep up.  Square, Konami, Tecmo, all the big dogs other than Capcom/Sega/Nintendo and Sony's internal studio's have dropped like rocks. They didn't just fail in the West, but they have pretty much killed the console in Japan with their lack of output and creativity. No innovation out of Japan and no answer to the companies above you listed that have not only created big titles that started with new IP's but dominated so damn long, their IP's got stale. And the one that was worth a damn this past generation, Capcom, likes the idea of going digital.

c_rake

How did you get all that from Black_Knight's post? He did he ever say Japan was somehow leagues ahead of all western developers? No. Stop projecting. I'm sure most of us can agree that Japan hasn't been on top of their game recently, but come on. That's not what we're discussing.

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

Wow, you actually believe this crap?

So all Western developers suck and spikey hair is awesome? Like those companies aren't going to try and develop new series? Get real man! Japanese companies haven't done jack shit this past generation to keep up.  Square, Konami, Tecmo, all the big dogs other than Capcom/Sega/Nintendo and Sony's internal studio's have dropped like rocks. They didn't just fail in the West, but they have pretty much killed the console in Japan with their lack of output and creativity. No innovation out of Japan and no answer to the companies above you listed that have not only created big titles that started with new IP's but dominated so damn long, their IP's got stale. And the one that was worth a damn this past generation, Capcom, likes the idea of going digital.

c_rake

How did you get all that from Black_Knight's post? He did he ever say Japan was somehow leagues ahead of all western developers? No. Stop projecting. I'm sure most of us can agree that Japan hasn't been on top of their game recently, but come on. That's not what we're discussing.

Well he only listed like 60% of all major franchises of last generation that came out of the west and saying they're all crap now. You know I actuallly like some of the stuff EA has done, like Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, and now that they have Bioware/Dice, I have no doubt they can put out some triple A titles. In terms of quality they are a much better company now than they were 10 years ago when all they could really make is sports game led by Madden. Their polycies might suck, but their games have gotten a lot better.

Ubi has knocked it out of the damn park this past generation. I would love to see a full fledged Rayman 3D sequel. 

Crytek develops one of the two most important gaming engines on the market. Who the hell wouldn't want them on the PS4? That's crazy saying people wouldn't want that.

Well he only listed like 60% of all major franchises of last generation that came out of the west and saying they're all crap now. You know I actuallly like some of the stuff EA has done, like Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, and now that they have Bioware/Dice, I have no doubt they can put out some triple A titles. In terms of quality they are a much better company now than they were 10 years ago when all they could really make is sports game led by Madden. Their polycies might suck, but their games have gotten a lot better. Ubi has knocked it out of the damn park this past generation. I would love to see a full fledged Rayman 3D sequel. Crytek develops one of the two most important gaming engines on the market. Who the hell wouldn't want them on the PS4? That's crazy saying people wouldn't want that.alexwatchtower

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]Well he only listed like 60% of all major franchises of last generation that came out of the west and saying they're all crap now. You know I actuallly like some of the stuff EA has done, like Mirror's Edge, Dead Space, and now that they have Bioware/Dice, I have no doubt they can put out some triple A titles. In terms of quality they are a much better company now than they were 10 years ago when all they could really make is sports game led by Madden. Their polycies might suck, but their games have gotten a lot better. Ubi has knocked it out of the damn park this past generation. I would love to see a full fledged Rayman 3D sequel. Crytek develops one of the two most important gaming engines on the market. Who the hell wouldn't want them on the PS4? That's crazy saying people wouldn't want that.Black_Knight_00

Well that's your opinion. But even if that was true, that doesn't mean they're not gearing up for next generation. Watch Dogs from UBI soft already looks pretty good to me and it's coming out on PS4. Crysis 3 is probably the #1 reason next-gen seems underwhelming and by the look of Unreal 4 which looked pretty stripped out on the PS4, are you really sure you wouldn't want Crytek taking a crack at it?

Crysis 3 is probably the #1 reason next-gen seems underwhelming and by the look of Unreal 4 which looked pretty stripped out on the PS4, are you really sure you wouldn't want Crytek taking a crack at it?alexwatchtower

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]Crysis 3 is probably the #1 reason next-gen seems underwhelming and by the look of Unreal 4 which looked pretty stripped out on the PS4, are you really sure you wouldn't want Crytek taking a crack at it?RandoIphF

Even if you don't like Crysis, which is just a demo game for their engine, they liscene their engine to a lot of other companies. Even Capcom's going to use Cryengine 3 for Monster Hunter Online.

Even if you don't like Crysis, which is just a demo game for their engine....alexwatchtower

[QUOTE="c_rake"]

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]

Wow, you actually believe this crap?

So all Western developers suck and spikey hair is awesome? Like those companies aren't going to try and develop new series? Get real man! Japanese companies haven't done jack shit this past generation to keep up.  Square, Konami, Tecmo, all the big dogs other than Capcom/Sega/Nintendo and Sony's internal studio's have dropped like rocks. They didn't just fail in the West, but they have pretty much killed the console in Japan with their lack of output and creativity. No innovation out of Japan and no answer to the companies above you listed that have not only created big titles that started with new IP's but dominated so damn long, their IP's got stale. And the one that was worth a damn this past generation, Capcom, likes the idea of going digital.

RandoIphF

How did you get all that from Black_Knight's post? He did he ever say Japan was somehow leagues ahead of all western developers? No. Stop projecting. I'm sure most of us can agree that Japan hasn't been on top of their game recently, but come on. That's not what we're discussing.

Sony is f*cking weird. They were the first ones to implement the online pass even though their exclusives dont sell all that well. I mean online passes for Twisted Metal, PSABR and Starhawk, really? At the same time, they made all DLC for Uncharted 2 free. They made all the mappacks for Starhawk free. They releeased two free characters for PSABR. Made Uncharted 3 free to play. Released KZ3 mp for $7.49 and released Motorstorm RC for free. I have no idea who is incharge of Sony at the moment. Jack Tretton says that he is against blocking used games sales last E3 but now all of a sudden cant give a straight answer. 

Sony is f*cking weird. They were the first ones to implement the online pass even though their exclusives dont sell all that well. I mean online passes for Twisted Metal, PSABR and Starhawk, really? At the same time, they made all DLC for Uncharted 2 free. They made all the mappacks for Starhawk free. They releeased two free characters for PSABR. Made Uncharted 3 free to play. Released KZ3 mp for $7.49 and released Motorstorm RC for free. I have no idea who is incharge of Sony at the moment. Jack Tretton says that he is against blocking used games sales last E3 but now all of a sudden cant give a straight answer. 

S0lidSnake

I thought you said Kaz was the CEO of all of Sony. Doesn't the buck stop with him?

All these rumors are troubling. I'm one of those people that could not believe a lot of those Xbox rumors because it seemed like total suicide for them to pull, and what did they do? They confirmed the rumors. After that, I won't say that these PS4 rumors are totally beyond possibility.

The fact is, we are entering a new phase of thinking in regards to software. We don't own that software as much as we would like to think we do. It's just a license. Look at the way that Adobe has switched all of their software to online subscription format going forward. Their justification is that the three year subscription cost is less than the price of the package. They are saving you money! But they minimize the fact that the high cost of the software prohibits the vast majority of people from even entertaining the possibility of owning their products.

If Sony does not implement this solution this time, I can see them doing it in the near future.

We as gamers often times inflate the impact of our tastes and knowledge in regards to purchasing consoles and games. It's why the Wii won this current gen in terms of units sold. The casuals were buying that thing up for years when the first party offerings were meager at best and crapware was the name of the game, week after week. It's the exact same reason that critically reviewed games go unrecognized a lot of times because the majority of people don't read game literature, sites, etc. They just saw a commercial or heard about the game from someone they knew, or they stopped in Gamestop and a clerk pushed the game on them, like the upselling at McDonald's, when you want a dollar fry and McChicken and they ask if you want some apple pies.

Gamers buy plenty of games and what not, but we are vastly outnumbered. I think these companies know that.

Well that's your opinion.alexwatchtower

This is going to be nitpicky as hell, but I've seen it a lot around here recently and it needs to be said: WHO F*CKING CARES?!

Seriously! What kind of arguement is that? How is pointing out the most obvious thing imaginable a viable counter-point? I mean, come on.

Sony is f*cking weird. They were the first ones to implement the online pass even though their exclusives dont sell all that well. I mean online passes for Twisted Metal, PSABR and Starhawk, really? At the same time, they made all DLC for Uncharted 2 free. They made all the mappacks for Starhawk free. They releeased two free characters for PSABR. Made Uncharted 3 free to play. Released KZ3 mp for $7.49 and released Motorstorm RC for free. I have no idea who is incharge of Sony at the moment. Jack Tretton says that he is against blocking used games sales last E3 but now all of a sudden cant give a straight answer. S0lidSnake

EA created online passes. Sony was simply the only console maker to adopt them.

I'm hoping Sony's true to their word that blocking used games is wrong, and that the only reason they would implement an infrastructure in favor it would be to keep the third-parties happy. Because at least then we know it was the decision wasn't made out of malice. That's not to say that Microsoft's decision to use it was (I'll wait to hear they're justification on it before passing such judgment), but they've gone all-in on it, which paints an uglier picture than simply creating such measures to satisfy the demands of major third-party publishers.

[QUOTE="alexwatchtower"]Well that's your opinion.c_rake

This is going to be nitpicky as hell, but I've seen it a lot around here recently and it needs to be said: WHO F*CKING CARES?!

Seriously! What kind of arguement is that? How is pointing out the most obvious thing imaginable a viable counter-point? I mean, come on.

Pretty sure that wasn't my entire counterpoint. 

Pretty sure that wasn't my entire counterpoint. alexwatchtower

I know. Wasn't specifically directed at you -- more like everybody who's ever used that term ever in a serious manner. I've been seeing it a bunch lately, here and there. I just... I had to say something.