GTAV voice actors include actual gangsters

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

Also, WHO is this game made for anyway? Because most of the people who buy it wouldn't know the difference between real gang-speak and something creatively crafted and well-delivered. I mean, if the only way you can recreate "authentic" gang talk is by hiring criminals, then aren't the criminals going to be the only ones who can tell such a difference? If Rockstar is making the game for gang members, then I could see trying to make such a huge thrust for authenticity, but when your audience largely consists of a bunch of basement dwellers who live in basements, whose "culture" exposure amounts to a few Jay-Z records, what's the fvcking point?

UpInFlames

Well, if I am reading a novel set in ancient Rome, I want it to be as authentic as possible. I want the dialogue to resemble the way people talked back then and I want the way of life depicted accurately. Doesn't really matter how much I know or don't know about it, I would still want an authentic experience. Same goes for movies and games who try to portray a way of life or culture. Very few developers care about this sort of thing and just write out of their asses, so in that context I thoroughly respect Rockstar's trademark obsessing over details.

I don't want to get into this discussion of whether I approve or not of how Rockstar got to this authenticity because I don't know all the details, I'm not sure how I feel about it and I don't know if I care at all, but what I do know is that I definitely want the game to feel as authentic as possible.

Well, as I said, authenticity is super important, but there are limits. Hiring criminals as technical advisors or actors and paying them with proceeds that I've funded by buying the game is something I am more than a little uncomfortable with.

Well, as I said, authenticity is super important, but there are limits. Hiring criminals as technical advisors or actors and paying them with proceeds that I've funded by buying the game is something I am more than a little uncomfortable with.

Shame-usBlackley

To be perfectly honest, I never even thought about it until now. There are loads of books, movies and TV shows that hired former or current criminals as consultants and actors. I know that guy with the white sideburns from The Sopranos was convicted of a series of crimes during the 70's including robbery and felony weapons possession. Apparently, the prison where he was serving his sentence was visited by a group of ex-cons who inspired him to give acting a shot. It's a stretch, but maybe some dude who tries out as a voice actor gives it a go and makes it out of the projects. Life is funny like that, so I'm not convinced that all of these people who got into crime due to various reasons should just be condemned for all eternity.

As for crime glorification through entertainment, I just have to be perfectly blunt and say that I simply don't believe in such a thing. It's just a depiction of the lifestyle. And in the end, it's just a piece of entertainment. I doubt that any writer, film director or game designer intends to promote criminal activity. They are just telling these stories.

[QUOTE="dvader654"]Really? This is a thing? This is a controversy? Come on people. There are tons of works of art from TV to movies that have real criminal consultants to make the source material authentic. Black_Knight_00

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="dvader654"]Really? This is a thing? This is a controversy? Come on people. There are tons of works of art from TV to movies that have real criminal consultants to make the source material authentic. Jacanuk

And mine was a general statement, not limited to the GTA case

This is a bad idea. Paying gangsters for being gangsters promotes gangs. It is as simple as that.BranKetra

If only the real world were as black/white as yours are mate but no people who commitet criminal acts are not evil. Jacanuk

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

Well, as I said, authenticity is super important, but there are limits. Hiring criminals as technical advisors or actors and paying them with proceeds that I've funded by buying the game is something I am more than a little uncomfortable with.

UpInFlames

To be perfectly honest, I never even thought about it until now. There are loads of books, movies and TV shows that hired former or current criminals as consultants and actors. I know that guy with the white sideburns from The Sopranos was convicted of a series of crimes during the 70's including robbery and felony weapons possession. Apparently, the prison where he was serving his sentence was visited by a group of ex-cons who inspired him to give acting a shot. It's a stretch, but maybe some dude who tries out as a voice actor gives it a go and makes it out of the projects. Life is funny like that, so I'm not convinced that all of these people who got into crime due to various reasons should just be condemned for all eternity.

As for crime glorification through entertainment, I just have to be perfectly blunt and say that I simply don't believe in such a thing. It's just a depiction of the lifestyle. And in the end, it's just a piece of entertainment. I doubt that any writer, film director or game designer intends to promote criminal activity. They are just telling these stories.

I don't have a problem with people who have made mistakes and are reformed. But let's be real here: the Rockstar rep qualified the man not as an actor, not by his name, not by anything that would stand on its own merits, but by the fact he was a gang member only hours out of prison. I don't remember hearing The Sopranos gloat about that.

Ok.

Sounds great, I'm glad Rockstar takes the writing in their game so seriously.

I find it funny that people are so offended by this.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]This is a bad idea. Paying gangsters for being gangsters promotes gangs. It is as simple as that.Jacanuk

 Crime=evil

And mine was a general statement, not limited to the GTA case

Black_Knight_00

I'm talking about things like stealing food to avoid hunger, not reporting income or not reporting family/friends who use drugs etc. nothing malicious.

As for crime glorification through entertainment, I just have to be perfectly blunt and say that I simply don't believe in such a thing. It's just a depiction of the lifestyle. And in the end, it's just a piece of entertainment. I doubt that any writer, film director or game designer intends to promote criminal activity. They are just telling these stories.

UpInFlames

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"][QUOTE="BranKetra"]This is a bad idea. Paying gangsters for being gangsters promotes gangs. It is as simple as that.BranKetra

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"]If only the real world were as black/white as yours are mate but no people who commitet criminal acts are not evil. Black_Knight_00

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"] So mlti-billion dollar companies paying hackers for being "hackers" promotes more hacking? or government agencies who hire criminals to help them catch other criminals promotes criminal behaviour?Jacanuk

I am not out of my element when talking about things like this. Refrain from getting personal.

By giving money to gangsters because of their lifestyle, this promotes the idea that other gangsters can do the same. Rockster wants gangsters to do this. If it is not any more obvious, me saying it should verify it. Gangsters are a problem. Anything they do should be subverted unless it is a documentary.

If you drive by my house without any reason other then just to shoot a uzi, then your not evil, your sick and clearly need some professional help.Jacanuk

That's ridiculous. Sometimes crime is born out of necessity. I'm not condoning it, but sometimes even hard-working honest people are thrown in terrible situations that are out of their control and they have to do things that aren't always on the up and up.

I'm talking about things like stealing food to avoid hunger, not reporting income or not reporting family/friends who use drugs etc. nothing malicious.

Bigboi500

[QUOTE="muffin200"]

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

 

EDIT: to be clear, I'm not saying that creative works shouldn't strive for realism -- far from it. I'm saying that hiring real criminals crosses the line of good sense and common decency. Research the HELL out of the subject and then hire capable actors to bring it to life. But for fvck's sake, don't HIRE the research!

Shame-usBlackley

One problem with that is they did not hire criminals they hired gang member - Unless you belive everyone in a gang is by defult a criminal.

I believe gang members are scumbags, but it was this line I was referring to:

"I mean, El Salvadorian gang dudes with amazing tattoos and one of which literally had gotten out of prison the day before."

I don't have a problem with people who have made mistakes and are reformed. But let's be real here: the Rockstar rep qualified the man not as an actor, not by his name, not by anything that would stand on its own merits, but by the fact he was a gang member only hours out of prison. I don't remember hearing The Sopranos gloat about that.

Shame-usBlackley

Oh yeah, that comment is just there to create a stir ("look at us, we're edgy like that"), I agree.

[QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

As for crime glorification through entertainment, I just have to be perfectly blunt and say that I simply don't believe in such a thing. It's just a depiction of the lifestyle. And in the end, it's just a piece of entertainment. I doubt that any writer, film director or game designer intends to promote criminal activity. They are just telling these stories.

BranKetra

Terrible analogy. Not only is sex not illegal, it is completely natural and awesome. And sex totally doesn't need any sort of promotion.

But what are you saying? That authors, film directors and game designers want people to go out and commit criminal acts? This is your argument?

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

 Crime=evil

And mine was a general statement, not limited to the GTA case

Bigboi500

I'm talking about things like stealing food to avoid hunger, not reporting income or not reporting family/friends who use drugs etc. nothing malicious.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

 Crime=evil

And mine was a general statement, not limited to the GTA case

firefox59

I'm talking about things like stealing food to avoid hunger, not reporting income or not reporting family/friends who use drugs etc. nothing malicious.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

As for crime glorification through entertainment, I just have to be perfectly blunt and say that I simply don't believe in such a thing. It's just a depiction of the lifestyle. And in the end, it's just a piece of entertainment. I doubt that any writer, film director or game designer intends to promote criminal activity. They are just telling these stories.

UpInFlames

Terrible analogy. Not only is sex not illegal, it is completely natural and awesome. And sex totally doesn't need any sort of promotion.

But what are you saying? That authors, film directors and game designers want people to go out and commit criminal acts? This is your argument?

I am not arguing that those people want criminals to continue doing criminal activities. I am saying paying them for it gives them an incentive to continue. It is like a resume for criminals and is a way for them to involve themselves in society. I am saying that is a bad idea.

[QUOTE="firefox59"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]That's ridiculous. Sometimes crime is born out of necessity. I'm not condoning it, but sometimes even hard-working honest people are thrown in terrible situations that are out of their control and they have to do things that aren't always on the up and up.

I'm talking about things like stealing food to avoid hunger, not reporting income or not reporting family/friends who use drugs etc. nothing malicious.

Jacanuk

It's largely a cultural, minority and economic problem that plagues poor communities in many countries.

At least these people were off the streets for a few days doing something positive instead of homicides and robbery. The same people condemning Rockstar's move are the same one's watching the Sopranos, Goodfellas, Menance To Society and partying to songs on pop hop stations where someone got 'bodied' in at least one bar of the rapper's verse.

Actually a lot of gangmembers are in a gang to stay alive and because its their only option, there is no such thing as neutral in some places.Jacanuk

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"]Actually a lot of gangmembers are in a gang to stay alive and because its their only option, there is no such thing as neutral in some places.Black_Knight_00

having real voice overs makes the game even more unbelievable.

Christ, if we only knew how much our money supports things we'd find despicable and abhorrent.  You'd have to live under a rock, it's inescapable.  This does not bother me.

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"]Actually a lot of gangmembers are in a gang to stay alive and because its their only option, there is no such thing as neutral in some places.Black_Knight_00

Sure, because everything solves itself with finding a job, someone with no education, no skills and lives in one of the poorest parts of a city can just go pick up a suit and get a job ;) Please tell me your joking because either your living in a bubble or you really need to educate yourself some more.Jacanuk

 

Worked in The Wire so no problem from me.

 

Edit - Being a Gang member does not automaticly make you a criminal.

muffin200

[QUOTE="muffin200"]

 

Worked in The Wire so no problem from me.

 

Edit - Being a Gang member does not automaticly make you a criminal.

danten81

Isent most cultures famous for that? UK have Robin Hood, William Wallace, and you can find the same thing in almost all countries Jacanuk

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"]Isent most cultures famous for that? UK have Robin Hood, William Wallace, and you can find the same thing in almost all countries Black_Knight_00

Sure they can, if you are willing to remove all logic and reason when making the equation. :P

 

Worked in The Wire so no problem from me.

 

Edit - Being a Gang member does not automaticly make you a criminal.

muffin200

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="Jacanuk"]Isent most cultures famous for that? UK have Robin Hood, William Wallace, and you can find the same thing in almost all countries Shame-usBlackley

Sure they can, if you are willing to remove all logic and reason when making the equation. :P

William Wallace was a rebel fighting against an oppressive regime, not a crimina. Robin Hood is fictional and still a rebel fighting an oppressor and looking out for the poor and the downtrodden. Neither can be compared to gangbangers.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="Jacanuk"]Isent most cultures famous for that? UK have Robin Hood, William Wallace, and you can find the same thing in almost all countries Shame-usBlackley

Sure they can, if you are willing to remove all logic and reason when making the equation. :P

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] William Wallace was a rebel fighting against an oppressive regime, not a crimina. Robin Hood is fictional and still a rebel fighting an oppressor and looking out for the poor and the downtrodden. Neither can be compared to gangbangers.Black_Knight_00

Sure they can, if you are willing to remove all logic and reason when making the equation. :P