Halo 3: Graphically Unimpressive

[QUOTE="D3s7rUc71oN"]You know what's funny? Most of this thread seems to revolve around Halo2 than the upcoming sequel :| I think this has been debated more than enough. After all the new screenshots GG provided it seems not one side is going to agree and this is going to get worse. I'm quite surprised the thread has not been locked. Anyways this is going to get derailed and off topic given the posts of "X games did this X game did that" and so on. Oh well let's see how far this goes :DErnesto_basic

:D  Back on topic: Do you think that MS's flagship title is living up to it's name? Where's the hype? Are you underwhelmed with the pre-launch information we're getting? This is NOTHING like the stuff leading up to Halo 2.

Nah this game won't come close to the hype of Halo2. I want a BETTER single player campaign, I know the multiplayer will be great and so the graphics :wink:

[QUOTE="Ernesto_basic"]

[QUOTE="D3s7rUc71oN"]You know what's funny? Most of this thread seems to revolve around Halo2 than the upcoming sequel :| I think this has been debated more than enough. After all the new screenshots GG provided it seems not one side is going to agree and this is going to get worse. I'm quite surprised the thread has not been locked. Anyways this is going to get derailed and off topic given the posts of "X games did this X game did that" and so on. Oh well let's see how far this goes :DD3s7rUc71oN

:D Back on topic: Do you think that MS's flagship title is living up to it's name? Where's the hype? Are you underwhelmed with the pre-launch information we're getting? This is NOTHING like the stuff leading up to Halo 2.

Nah this game won't come close to the hype of Halo2. I want a BETTER single player campaign, I know the multiplayer will be great and so the graphics :wink:

I want the single player game to be fulfilling and epic. I want to feel great about ending the series, not cheated (as I did with the 2nd). As for multiplayer, I just want them to make it possible to host dedicated servers and to also hold public non-ranked games!!! PLEASE!!!! 

What you seem to misunderstand is that the graphics aren't something they can simply tack on in a mere 6 months. If the game is this close to production (enough to have a demo open to the public), then they're just about done with the EVERYTHING!!!! You don't create miracles in the last phases of development for ANY system, because you can't go back and make radical changes (not when you're getting ready for certification and accredidation!!!). If Bungie is going to open a beta to the public like this, then they know full and well that it's going to respresent a final product and that everyone will critique it as such. That's how it works. 

Ernesto_basic

As I understand it, graphics are actually one of the last things optimized before a game is released. Since 3D objects and characters are essentially built in layers, the final tweaks and details can be added relatively late in development so it's entirely feasible that the graphics in Halo 3 will look exponentially better than the beta version.

Don't believe me? Pick up a copy of the latest Game Informer where the developers at Rockstar explain that the current version of GTAIV (which looks amazing) will look even better visually when the final code is completed. This game, like H3, is only about 6 months away from release and yet the graphics are still not finalized.  

[QUOTE="Ernesto_basic"]

What you seem to misunderstand is that the graphics aren't something they can simply tack on in a mere 6 months. If the game is this close to production (enough to have a demo open to the public), then they're just about done with the EVERYTHING!!!! You don't create miracles in the last phases of development for ANY system, because you can't go back and make radical changes (not when you're getting ready for certification and accredidation!!!). If Bungie is going to open a beta to the public like this, then they know full and well that it's going to respresent a final product and that everyone will critique it as such. That's how it works. 

Grammaton-Cleric

As I understand it, graphics are actually one of the last things optimized before a game is released. Since 3D objects and characters are essentially built in layers, the final tweaks and details can be added relatively late in development so it's entirely feasible that the graphics in Halo 3 will look exponentially better than the beta version.

Don't believe me? Pick up a copy of the latest Game Informer where the developers at Rockstar explain that the current version of GTAIV (which looks amazing) will look even better visually when the final code is completed. This game, like H3, is only about 6 months away from release and yet the graphics are still not finalized.  

Grammaton, forget it, we've tried to explain this for pages and he insists that he knows all about how it works. He refuses to accept the fact that the game engine, level design, and gameplay could ever possibly come before graphics layout.

[QUOTE="Ernesto_basic"]

[QUOTE="D3s7rUc71oN"]You know what's funny? Most of this thread seems to revolve around Halo2 than the upcoming sequel :| I think this has been debated more than enough. After all the new screenshots GG provided it seems not one side is going to agree and this is going to get worse. I'm quite surprised the thread has not been locked. Anyways this is going to get derailed and off topic given the posts of "X games did this X game did that" and so on. Oh well let's see how far this goes :DD3s7rUc71oN

:D  Back on topic: Do you think that MS's flagship title is living up to it's name? Where's the hype? Are you underwhelmed with the pre-launch information we're getting? This is NOTHING like the stuff leading up to Halo 2.

 I want a BETTER single player campaign

Indeed. I won't rip on Halo 2 for the sake of it, but the level design blew chimps. The Arbiter's fun levels (except for Neo Library) didn't make up for the majority of the game which dragged. Master Chief's levels? Well, Mombasa was OK, that was about it.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"][QUOTE="Ernesto_basic"]

What you seem to misunderstand is that the graphics aren't something they can simply tack on in a mere 6 months. If the game is this close to production (enough to have a demo open to the public), then they're just about done with the EVERYTHING!!!! You don't create miracles in the last phases of development for ANY system, because you can't go back and make radical changes (not when you're getting ready for certification and accredidation!!!). If Bungie is going to open a beta to the public like this, then they know full and well that it's going to respresent a final product and that everyone will critique it as such. That's how it works.

MarcusAntonius

As I understand it, graphics are actually one of the last things optimized before a game is released. Since 3D objects and characters are essentially built in layers, the final tweaks and details can be added relatively late in development so it's entirely feasible that the graphics in Halo 3 will look exponentially better than the beta version.

Don't believe me? Pick up a copy of the latest Game Informer where the developers at Rockstar explain that the current version of GTAIV (which looks amazing) will look even better visually when the final code is completed. This game, like H3, is only about 6 months away from release and yet the graphics are still not finalized.

Grammaton, forget it, we've tried to explain this for pages and he insists that he knows all about how it works. He refuses to accept the fact that the game engine, level design, and gameplay could ever possibly come before graphics layout.

I guess we'll see when it launches. 

[QUOTE="D3s7rUc71oN"][QUOTE="Ernesto_basic"]

[QUOTE="D3s7rUc71oN"]You know what's funny? Most of this thread seems to revolve around Halo2 than the upcoming sequel :| I think this has been debated more than enough. After all the new screenshots GG provided it seems not one side is going to agree and this is going to get worse. I'm quite surprised the thread has not been locked. Anyways this is going to get derailed and off topic given the posts of "X games did this X game did that" and so on. Oh well let's see how far this goes :DMarcusAntonius

:D Back on topic: Do you think that MS's flagship title is living up to it's name? Where's the hype? Are you underwhelmed with the pre-launch information we're getting? This is NOTHING like the stuff leading up to Halo 2.

I want a BETTER single player campaign

Indeed. I won't rip on Halo 2 for the sake of it, but the level design blew chimps. The Arbiter's fun levels (except for Neo Library) didn't make up for the majority of the game which dragged. Master Chief's levels? Well, Mombasa was OK, that was about it.

The game was very much like Metal Gear Solid 2, where Snake wasn't the main attraction. I really thought we got shafted with the fight being taken away from Earth and the environments being bland for the most part. I understand that they had to explain the change of guard with the covenent, but a little more chief would have made things nice.  I really hope that co-op shows up online, because this is what truly made the first one a golden experience.

Oh, come on, does anyonw really believe that this is not going to look good enough? If it ends up looking worse than Halo 2 PC, I don't think MS will let it out the door. I'm speaking generally, I know there's some tricks in Direct X 10 that the 360 can't do.nopalversion

...and I know that a Console doesn´t need Direct X10...for what should they?In a Console it whould be useless afaik...

As I understand it, graphics are actually one of the last things optimized before a game is released. Since 3D objects and characters are essentially built in layers, the final tweaks and details can be added relatively late in development so it's entirely feasible that the graphics in Halo 3 will look exponentially better than the beta version.

Don't believe me? Pick up a copy of the latest Game Informer where the developers at Rockstar explain that the current version of GTAIV (which looks amazing) will look even better visually when the final code is completed. This game, like H3, is only about 6 months away from release and yet the graphics are still not finalized.Grammaton-Cleric

Optimization is primarily about making sure the game runs smoothly, ironing out bugs and frame-rate issues. Some final polishing, sure, but the graphical quality isn't going to change that much. Grand Theft Auto IV might look better when it's actually finished, but not leaps and bounds above what was shown in the trailer, I suspect.

But there's always the example of Perfect Dark Zero - the game looked literally like garbage just weeks before launch, and while the finished version didn't really blow anyone's mind, it looked a whole lot better. Halo 3 multi-player looks how it looks, hopefully Bungie has a single-player game somewhere in there and we'll be able to see it soon.

Hi guys, I thought I'd bring up a topic that seems to be avoided around these parts, which happens to be the appearance of Halo 3. First off, I'd like to say that I'm a fan of the series and while I'm greatly looking forward to the 3rd and evidently final chapter, I must say that I'm quite underwhelmed. Granted, these are beta screens, but as we all know, they're usually indicative of the final product. It saddens me to think that Bungie of all developers, hasn't delivered on something truly pleasing to the eye, especially since we've seen phenomenal examples from the likes of Rare, Epic, and many others on the platform thus far.

Also, watching the multiplayer videos both officially released and leaked, I have to admit that it seems as though we're going to be treated to a warmed over serving of Halo 2.5 (or something to that effect). I sincerely hope that we're going to see some significant changes in both visuals, gameplay, and hopefully even story elements. I was blown away by the first, dissapointed by the 2nd and to be frank, I'm concernedwith the progress shown with the 3rd (so far).

Maybe Halo 2 killed the anticipation and standards I once held this series to? I don't know, but I want the magic this series had right before the release of the 2nd... Bungie, please don't let us down, because this is the LAST game!

[EDIT: Screens have had to be removed, as they break a NDA]

Ernesto_basic

Lmao? Why did I go into this thread then? Oh well.

Back on topic:

"Hi guys, I thought I'd bring up a topic that seems to be avoided around these parts"

I stopped reading there. Go to System Wars- there's MILLIONS of these posts there. :| 

[QUOTE="The_Duke_Lives"][QUOTE="Ernesto_basic"]

Congratulations, you managed to miss the part where I openly acknowledge that they are early, but likely indicative of the final product.

Ernesto_basic

I'm sorry, but are you new to the game industry? Have you not been paying attention for the duration of time that we've had Internet forums? If so, it basically works this way:

Video Game Media(pics, vids)/Hype Life Cycle :)

1. Company XYZ posts mock-ups of "in-engine" shots that are an embelishment of the final game's appearance... many are wowed and many are skeptical (with experience).

2. Months (sometimes years) of development goes by and we get "downgrades"... many protest that they look the same, some make excuses (read: bad capture, grainy screens, beta development hardware... etc....). Again, many others are skeptical (with experience).

3. The SDLC (System Development Life Cycle) is close to the deployment phase and screenshots, video, and other media indicate what the graphics will VERY LIKELY be like in the final product. How do we know this???..... that's right, from past experience! Some excuses you see here are "oooohhh, they have X months to polish it up" or "those are just placeholder"... many individuals find it necessary to also lie about "insider" information too.

4. Game is released and the graphics don't match the initial target "mock-ups" and die-hard fans swear to God that it looks like them on an HDTV... which most of us have and know very well they're fibbing (with.... ::: gasp ::: EXPERIENCE!!!!!).

Not true all the time. In fact, that logic could be considered terribly flawed because some games go through phases in which they look better as they go through development. 

:D

.... More to come!

Is that top pic really halo 3?

What makes people think that halo will do any kind of thing to beat Epic with Unreal Tournament 2007 and Gears of War 2 not so far after? Good old bungie, maybe they should go back to making myth so EA and blizzard can stomp them in that ring. Absolutely disappointing and horrible beyond belief. Not to mention Halo being the worst FPS franchise in history, behind Duke Nukem.

Absolutely NO innovation, steals gun ideas from every single FPS ever made (goldeneye anyone?), maps that are randomly thrown together and obviously not playtested with or are fun to play, why do people play this game? Halo 1 was a very good game, but after being in the hype behind halo 2 and remembering all the stuff that the developers said would be in and wasn't, it just didn't deliver. Horrible. Kids reading this, save your money and buy a PC. Tribes was a better game than this and it was out 10 years ago.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"][QUOTE="Ernesto_basic"]

What you seem to misunderstand is that the graphics aren't something they can simply tack on in a mere 6 months. If the game is this close to production (enough to have a demo open to the public), then they're just about done with the EVERYTHING!!!! You don't create miracles in the last phases of development for ANY system, because you can't go back and make radical changes (not when you're getting ready for certification and accredidation!!!). If Bungie is going to open a beta to the public like this, then they know full and well that it's going to respresent a final product and that everyone will critique it as such. That's how it works.

MarcusAntonius

As I understand it, graphics are actually one of the last things optimized before a game is released. Since 3D objects and characters are essentially built in layers, the final tweaks and details can be added relatively late in development so it's entirely feasible that the graphics in Halo 3 will look exponentially better than the beta version.

Don't believe me? Pick up a copy of the latest Game Informer where the developers at Rockstar explain that the current version of GTAIV (which looks amazing) will look even better visually when the final code is completed. This game, like H3, is only about 6 months away from release and yet the graphics are still not finalized.

Grammaton, forget it, we've tried to explain this for pages and he insists that he knows all about how it works. He refuses to accept the fact that the game engine, level design, and gameplay could ever possibly come before graphics layout.

Rewind to 05 when the lost planet demo came out.  Guess what, it looked the same over a year later.   

Optimization is primarily about making sure the game runs smoothly, ironing out bugs and frame-rate issues. Some final polishing, sure, but the graphical quality isn't going to change that much. Grand Theft Auto IV might look better when it's actually finished, but not leaps and bounds above what was shown in the trailer, I suspect.

But there's always the example of Perfect Dark Zero - the game looked literally like garbage just weeks before launch, and while the finished version didn't really blow anyone's mind, it looked a whole lot better. Halo 3 multi-player looks how it looks, hopefully Bungie has a single-player game somewhere in there and we'll be able to see it soon.

UpInFlames

Indeed.  Not that I'm the expert on game development or anything, but based on what I've gathered from talking to actual developers the case of Perfect Dark Zero isn't the norm.  In general, the actual features and effects that go into a graphics engine have to be finished way ahead of time, so that the levels, character models, vehicles, etc.  are designed around knowing what the limitations of the graphics engine are.  As UpInFlames said, the last phase is generally just making tweaks to bring the framerate up to playable levels and removing glitches.

That said, I have no idea what sort of developement cycle Bungie is using.  For all we know, they could make major changes before release.  Personally, I don't expect it to look a whole lot different at release.

Two quick things:

1. I still believe they've got some fine-tuning to do, and I doubt the pics here are exactly what we'll see in the fall. Anybody who believes Halo 3 won't look great is just being naive due to knee-jerk reactions.

2. I can't BELIEVE the amount of Halo fanboys out there who absolutely refuse to believe Halo 3 might not be the greatest looking game in history. It's like you told them the sun wasn't hot, or something. :roll: