How would rate the Dreamcast in terms of best consoles?

Is it a good console? Absolutely with a great library of games, and some of the best multiplatform versions of games between PS1, Saturn, N64, Dreamcast.

However the best console? No, not even. NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, Sega Genesis; all beat it out, IMO, and probably in the majority of other people's eyes, as well.

BTW, how many accounts does this guy need running at once?

Dreamcast is the God of Arcade ports !

The Dreamcast is in my top 5 consoles easily. It was by far the biggest jump forward throughout the generations of consoles. I remember vividly jumping from PS1 & N64 to the Dreamcast. It brought online play to the living room and away from the computer, many games ran at 60 frames per second way before Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony. And they sold it for $199.99, with a great selection of games right out of the gate. They did everything right, and sold many consoles before Sony just cashed in on the DVD hype.

I believe that if Sega had the funds, and drive to continue on, the Dreamcast would have had many more killer titles, competed well with Xbox Live, and sold more than the Xbox and Gamecube.

The Dreamcast did not fail. The gamers failed the Dreamcast.

The Dreamcast is in my top 5 consoles easily. It was by far the biggest jump forward throughout the generations of consoles. I remember vividly jumping from PS1 & N64 to the Dreamcast. It brought online play to the living room and away from the computer, many games ran at 60 frames per second way before Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony. And they sold it for $199.99, with a great selection of games right out of the gate. They did everything right, and sold many consoles before Sony just cashed in on the DVD hype.

I believe that if Sega had the funds, and drive to continue on, the Dreamcast would have had many more killer titles, competed well with Xbox Live, and sold more than the Xbox and Gamecube.

The Dreamcast did not fail. The gamers failed the Dreamcast.

RumblSmoothSkin

it's my 2nd favorite after the saturn. but it's close

It's all about perspective. Wen it was released and in its short lifespan, it was the greatest console to have ever existed. From the moment it released, it had the best launch lineup ever for a console, and it kept pumping incredible games after incredible games each month. Not to mention how ahead of its time it was with its focus on online and the huge bump in graphics.

Now a days, most of its games have ben either ported elswere or improved upon in sequels. That doesn't mean that the originals cease to exist on the Dreamcast, so that doesn't take away from its greatness, but it does hit a huge dent in it.

It's still a great console, but the Saturn is a much better console to own because it has many more unique games and exclusives, these days.

It's still a great console, but the Saturn is a much better console to own because it has many more unique games and exclusives, these days.Lucianu

Disagree.

I have stacks of games on both (like 70-80 per console), Dreamcast gets significantly more play.

6/10 scoring Dreamcast games are usually better than 8/10 scoring Saturn games

Is it a good console? Absolutely with a great library of games, and some of the best multiplatform versions of games between PS1, Saturn, N64, Dreamcast.

However the best console? No, not even. NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, Sega Genesis; all beat it out, IMO, and probably in the majority of other people's eyes, as well.

Emerald_Warrior

I prefer the Dreamcast over the NES... but otherwise, the other consoles are better.

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]It's still a great console, but the Saturn is a much better console to own because it has many more unique games and exclusives, these days.Domino_slayer

Disagree.

I have stacks of games on both (like 70-80 per console), Dreamcast gets significantly more play.

6/10 scoring Dreamcast games are usually better than 8/10 scoring Saturn games

I think he's probably referring to the Saturn's Japanese library, which had a lot of unique games that never saw the light of day in the West. The Saturn was the most successful Sega console in Japan, so naturally, it had their best Japanese library. On the other hand, the Saturn's Western library was a lot more limited.

I think he's probably referring to the Saturn's Japanese library, which had a lot of unique games that never saw the light of day in the West.Jag85

I've never agreed with this, as far as I'm concerned at least 80% of the best Saturn games were released in the west.

Japan's Saturn exclusives largely consist of 2D fighting game updates and scrolling shmups.

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]It's still a great console, but the Saturn is a much better console to own because it has many more unique games and exclusives, these days.Domino_slayer

Disagree.

I have stacks of games on both (like 70-80 per console), Dreamcast gets significantly more play.

6/10 scoring Dreamcast games are usually better than 8/10 scoring Saturn games

Jesus, i have a much smaller collection of games for both. It's ben about a half a year since i touched the DC, but i'm always going back to the Saturn. I'll take Panzer Dragoon 1 'n Zwei over Rez any day, for example. But then again, i'm really thinking of replaying Sword of the Berserk: Gut's Rage on the DC, i absolutely love that game, and there's nothing on the Saturn or any other console for that matter, that scratches that Berserk fan itch in me. 

I would go back and forth between picking my favorite between the DC and the Saturn all day long, but the thing that seals the deal for me is the fact that the Dreamcast didn't have any quality JRPGs except for .. three that i can think off, one of which (Skies of Arcadia) kind of sucked hard for me because of the random encounters. I strongly dislike that game.. And the handful of Saturn JRPGs dwarf the JRPGs the Dreamcast.

but the thing that seals the deal for me is the fact that the Dreamcast didn't have any quality JRPGs except for .. three that i can think off, one of which (Skies of Arcadia) kind of sucked hard for me because of the random encounters. I strongly dislike that game.. And the handful of Saturn JRPGs dwarf the JRPGs the Dreamcast.Lucianu

If you're mainly interested in RPGs then its not surprising you'd prefer the Saturn I guess

Though I don't agree with you about Skies of Arcadia sucking hard at all

I'll take Panzer Dragoon 1 'n Zwei over Rez any day, for example.Lucianu

Rez is one of my favourite games ever made, Zwei I find fun but can take or leave, the 1st i found passable.

Dreamcast would have been much better with cartridges.Goldflower1234

It's not as good as the Vectrex.

And in the grand scheme of things if you're not first you're last.

The Dreamcast is not even that good a console imo. I might rank Xbox, Saturn, or N64 as being better.

Dreamcast has SA2.. but so does Gamecube. (which is another bad console.. oh the irony)

[QUOTE="Goldflower1234"]Dreamcast would have been much better with cartridges.Stinger78

Dreamcast is the God of Arcade ports !

Caseytappy

[QUOTE="Jag85"]I think he's probably referring to the Saturn's Japanese library, which had a lot of unique games that never saw the light of day in the West.Domino_slayer

I've never agreed with this, as far as I'm concerned at least 80% of the best Saturn games were released in the west.

Japan's Saturn exclusives largely consist of 2D fighting game updates and scrolling shmups.

And what about all those Japan-exclusive RPG's? 

And what about all those Japan-exclusive RPG's?Jag85

There really isn't that many, the biggest ones we missed were Grandia, and the Shining Force sequels, maybe Dragon Force 2 & Langrisser games

There were also some PS1 ports

Wachenroeder looks like it could be cool.

Princess Crown is ok(ish)

I don't think those, added to the rest makes up more than 20% of the best games to be honest, and in regards to the original point (which was Saturn Vs Dreamcast exclusives) many of those RPGs can be found elsewhere, just like Dreamcast's games (except in Saturn's case its easier to buy them elsewhere too)

[QUOTE="Jag85"]And what about all those Japan-exclusive RPG's?Domino_slayer

There really isn't that many, the biggest ones we missed were Grandia, and the Shining Force sequels, maybe Dragon Force 2 & Langrisser games

There were also some PS1 ports

Wachenroeder looks like it could be cool.

Princess Crown is ok(ish)

I don't think those, added to the rest makes up more than 20% of the best games to be honest, and in regards to the original point (which was Saturn Vs Dreamcast exclusives) many of those RPGs can be found elsewhere, just like Dreamcast's games (except in Saturn's case its easier to buy them elsewhere too)

Also the Lunar series, Sakura Wars series, rare Megami Tensei games, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force 3, Guardian Heroes, and plenty more. The Saturn had a large Japanese RPG library that managed to hold its own even against the PS1. The Japanese Saturn also had a pretty large library of adventure games and visual novels. So yeah, it wasn't just fighters and shmups, but the Japanese Saturn had a lot more to offer than just those.

Also the Lunar series, Sakura Wars series, rare Megami Tensei games, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force 3, Guardian Heroes, and plenty more. The Saturn had a large Japanese RPG library that managed to hold its own even against the PS1. The Japanese Saturn also had a pretty large library of adventure games and visual novels. So yeah, it wasn't just fighters and shmups, but the Japanese Saturn had a lot more to offer than just those.Jag85

Eh? Panzer Dragoon Saga & Guardian Heroes aren't Japanese exclusives

Did you forget what we were talking about? :|

And no, the Saturn RPG library may have been good, but it was a complete joke in comparison to the PS1, not even remotely arguable.

[QUOTE="Jag85"]Also the Lunar series, Sakura Wars series, rare Megami Tensei games, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force 3, Guardian Heroes, and plenty more. The Saturn had a large Japanese RPG library that managed to hold its own even against the PS1. The Japanese Saturn also had a pretty large library of adventure games and visual novels. So yeah, it wasn't just fighters and shmups, but the Japanese Saturn had a lot more to offer than just those.Domino_slayer

Eh? Panzer Dragoon Saga & Guardian Heroes aren't Japanese exclusives

Did you forget what we were talking about? :|

And no, the Saturn RPG library may have been good, but it was a complete joke in comparison to the PS1, not even remotely arguable.

Cliche as it may sound, Panzer Dragoon Saga is unlike anything els on the PS1. There's no grinding involved at all, the battle system is unique and fun with an incredible depth, it's linear but just at the right pace (it sure as hell not as linear as FF XIII for example), it's fun to control the dragon, it's very cinematic and fully voice acted, and it's at a sweet spot of 15 - 20 hours.

I honestly think this game is built by modern standards. It blew me away. It's like the developers took a trip into the future, and tried to build a JRPG, by modern standards, on a 5th generation system. It blows away any JRPGs, today or then, in its uniqueness.

But, yeah.. i gotta hand it to the PS1. There are just way to many quality JRPGs on that system. Panzer Dragoon Saga may be unique and fun, but it cannot compete with an army of PS1 JRPGs dripping with quality, like Xenogears, Suikoden II, Valkyrie Profile, Vagrant Story and Persona 2.

[QUOTE="Jag85"]Also the Lunar series, Sakura Wars series, rare Megami Tensei games, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force 3, Guardian Heroes, and plenty more. The Saturn had a large Japanese RPG library that managed to hold its own even against the PS1. The Japanese Saturn also had a pretty large library of adventure games and visual novels. So yeah, it wasn't just fighters and shmups, but the Japanese Saturn had a lot more to offer than just those.Domino_slayer

Eh? Panzer Dragoon Saga & Guardian Heroes aren't Japanese exclusives

Did you forget what we were talking about? :|

And no, the Saturn RPG library may have been good, but it was a complete joke in comparison to the PS1, not even remotely arguable.

A "complete joke" would be the N64 RPG library. The Saturn RPG library managed to hold its own that gen, or at least about as much as the Mega Drive RPG's managed against the superior SNES RPG library.

Cliche as it may sound, Panzer Dragoon Saga is unlike anything els on the PS1. There's no grinding involved at all, the battle system is unique and fun with an incredible depth, it's linear but just at the right pace (it sure as hell not as linear as FF XIII for example), it's fun to control the dragon, it's very cinematic and fully voice acted, and it's at a sweet spot of 15 - 20 hours.Lucianu

I agree that Panzer Dragoon Saga is amongst the best RPGs of that generation, but not that it is the best.

A "complete joke" would be the N64 RPG library. The Saturn RPG library managed to hold its own that genJag85

If I made a list of the 20 best RPGs on that gen, Saturn would have 2 or 3 and the PS1 would have the remaining 17 or 18

That's pretty far from holding its own In my opinion

You're comparing a system which has one of the biggest, and strongest RPG line-ups of any retro console, with one that is merely good

at least about as much as the Mega Drive RPG's managed against the superior SNES RPG library.Jag85

That's really not saying much. :)

Dreamcast could have hung with the big 3 if it would have had 2 thumbsticks and DVD playback. NinjaLegacy

ugh no not this bull**** again

Dreamcast could have hung with the big 3 if it would have had 2 thumbsticks and DVD playback. NinjaLegacy

Dreamcast failed primarily because nobody trusted SEGA anymore -- neither developers, publishers, nor gamers. Any other issues people point out are ancillary (piracy, disc format, PS2 hype, advertising, controller, et cetera) at best.famicommander

I agree that weak brand name was one of the major issues, but I think the PS2 hype machine/lies definitely affected things.

If you look at old forum posts from ~2000 many people honestly believe that the PS2 is going to be doing >50 million polygons in game in comparison to Dreamcast doing 3 million, and there's a very widespread feeling that when the big consoles arrive the Dreamcast is going to be very, very underpowered.

[QUOTE="famicommander"]Dreamcast failed primarily because nobody trusted SEGA anymore -- neither developers, publishers, nor gamers. Any other issues people point out are ancillary (piracy, disc format, PS2 hype, advertising, controller, et cetera) at best.Domino_slayer

I agree that weak brand name was one of the major issues, but I think the PS2 hype machine/lies definitely affected things.

If you look at old forum posts from ~2000 many people honestly believe that the PS2 is going to be doing >50 million polygons in game in comparison to Dreamcast doing 3 million, and there's a very widespread feeling that when the big consoles arrive the Dreamcast is going to be very, very underpowered.

I have old Game Informers, EGM magazines, and funcoland catalogs just before the PS2's release. Upon looking back and reading, I agree that the PS2 was hyped far too much. From the articles the PS2 was 10x as powerful as the Dreamcast, had way more games coming out of the gate, and played these new things called DVD's and your Playstation back catalog. They hinted that Sony was pushing online and on and on. Aside from backwards compatible and DVD's the rest was just hype.

The Xbox and Gamecube were not hyped near as much when looking back, yet they were more powerful than said PS2. ;)

the true reason dreamcast failed in the end was because sega was far too much into debt. they couldn't sustain it despite the best launch ever of any system and modest sales upon that. would it have continued it would've outsold gamecube for instance going by year to year sales. also despite what people may say, piracy hurt the dreamcast more than anything. software sales plumeted after the dreamcast got hacked in august of 2000

[QUOTE="NinjaLegacy"]Dreamcast could have hung with the big 3 if it would have had 2 thumbsticks and DVD playback. bultje112

ugh no not this bull**** again

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="NinjaLegacy"]Dreamcast could have hung with the big 3 if it would have had 2 thumbsticks and DVD playback. Shuffle-Fan

ugh no not this bull**** again

GameCube didn't have DVD playback, unless you have a lot of extra dough lying around to pay for a Panasonic Q model.

[QUOTE="Shuffle-Fan"][QUOTE="bultje112"]

ugh no not this bull**** again

Emerald_Warrior

GameCube didn't have DVD playback, unless you have a lot of extra dough lying around to pay for a Panasonic Q model.

Had potential, but wasn't around long enough to side with the "greats". The library isn't varied enough to catch the attention of every type of gamer out there. Unless you're a hardcore Sega fan with the money to spend on those Japanese imports most gamers don't really care for, the Western library is pretty slim for someone like me.

It's a good console, but I feel the majority of the love it's getting now is just people looking back with rose-tinted glasses. It happens with a lot of "good" consoles that just didn't reach "great" back in the day. Consoles like the N64, which many people consider sub-par at best, still had many ground-breaking games that served to guide a fledgling turning point in gaming history. The Dreamcast, however, was just fun. Many of its features were being experimented with before its time.

Dreamcast is the God of Arcade ports !

Caseytappy

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="NinjaLegacy"]Dreamcast could have hung with the big 3 if it would have had 2 thumbsticks and DVD playback. Shuffle-Fan

ugh no not this bull**** again

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="Shuffle-Fan"] Gamcube proves you wrong.Shuffle-Fan

GameCube didn't have DVD playback, unless you have a lot of extra dough lying around to pay for a Panasonic Q model.

that's not what you meant and if you did you are really an idiot.

Had potential, but wasn't around long enough to side with the "greats". The library isn't varied enough to catch the attention of every type of gamer out there. Unless you're a hardcore Sega fan with the money to spend on those Japanese imports most gamers don't really care for, the Western library is pretty slim for someone like me.

It's a good console, but I feel the majority of the love it's getting now is just people looking back with rose-tinted glasses. It happens with a lot of "good" consoles that just didn't reach "great" back in the day. Consoles like the N64, which many people consider sub-par at best, still had many ground-breaking games that served to guide a fledgling turning point in gaming history. The Dreamcast, however, was just fun. Many of its features were being experimented with before its time.

WiiCubeM1

Looking back at it today, with modern-tinted glasses, of course you wouldn't really see what the big deal was (i.e. Seinfeld is Unfunny). Unless you were around back then, as a Dreamcast owner, you wouldn't really understand what the fuss was about. What made it stand out back then was how much it pushed console gaming forward (i.e. true arcade-quality 3D graphics, worldwide online gaming on consoles, analog shoulder buttons, etc.) and the almost unparalleled number of quality games (many of them innovative in their own ways) it had in such a short time span. It was a great system that had everything going for it, and yet failed simply because of Sega's many bad business decisions over the years. The reason why there's so much nostalgia for the Dreamcast is because of "what could have been" had Sega made the right choices. The Dreamcast's lifespan was cut too short, so we never really got to see its full potential.

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

[QUOTE="Shuffle-Fan"] Gamcube proves you wrong.Shuffle-Fan

GameCube didn't have DVD playback, unless you have a lot of extra dough lying around to pay for a Panasonic Q model.

That's hardly representative of the PS2's DVD playback, though. The Panasonic Q model of the GameCube is quite rare to come across and expensive, NOT accessible to the masses. While on the other hand, the PS2 had DVD playback on every single model and is VERY cheap and accessible for the masses.