Human Revolution is superior to the original Deus Ex (maybe spoilers)

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Lucianu

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#51 Lucianu
Member since 2007 • 10347 Posts

The first Deus Ex hardly ran away with awards either, lets see, Diablo II, Majora's Mask, Baldur's Gate II to name a few.texasgoldrush

Wrong, it got over 40 GOTY awards from countless sites and gaming magazines. It also achieved "Excellence in Game Design" and "Game Innovation Spotlight" at the 2000 Game Developers Choice Awards and won in the "Computer Innovation" and "Computer Action/Adventure" categories at the Interactive Achievement Awards. Besides those, and until this day, it has appearing in countless 'Greatest Games of All Times' lists and Halls of Fame from many sites and magazines, usually in the top 10 spot, 10 years on a row.

You pissed me off with that post, since the info. i just wrote here is at the finger tips of anybody wanting to check.

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texasgoldrush

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#52 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]The first Deus Ex hardly ran away with awards either, lets see, Diablo II, Majora's Mask, Baldur's Gate II to name a few.Lucianu

Wrong, it got over 40 GOTY awards from countless sites and gaming magazines. It also achieved "Excellence in Game Design" and "Game Innovation Spotlight" at the 2000 Game Developers Choice Awards and won in the "Computer Innovation" and "Computer Action/Adventure" categories at the Interactive Achievement Awards. Besides those, and until this day, it has appearing in countless 'Greatest Games of All Times' lists and Halls of Fame from many sites and magazines, usually in the top 10 spot, 10 years on a row.

You pissed me with that post, since the info. i just wrote here is at the finger tips of anybody wanting to check.

Just because it won 40 awards doesn't mean it was the MOST awarded game of the year. And Deus Ex is not the only PC game that was historic for 2000..there was Baldur's Gate II and Diablo II as well, which are also on greatest games of all time lists. Deus Ex was ONE of the most lauded, but not THE most lauded. In fact, Baldur's Gate II is a better game anyway to Deus Ex. A game that ran away with awards is something like Uncharted 2.
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megadeth1117

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#53 megadeth1117
Member since 2010 • 1830 Posts

I agree with TC, even though DX1 had a good story, it was a pain in the ass to play.

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texasgoldrush

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#54 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts
[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] 1. The Heavy Rifle was not designed for short bursts, its designed to put as much lead into clumps of enemies as possible. The recoil dampener is a must for the rifle and so is aim stablizer. 2. Thats not AI, thats the rules of the game. The entire series is like this. Police do catch you hacking though. However, the enemy AI is good. And Call of Duty's AI good.....ummmm...no. And once they get into combat, the AI in HR is pretty good. 3. And when did the developer state this? And once again, compare Invisible War to most of Human Revolution...Invisible War is much more futuristic. And IW was criticized for looking more space age futuristic than cyberpunk. And do I see any floating robots in HR...nope. Nanoaugs...nope. 5. You really do not understand what the aug does then. It doesn't MAKE a person do something like mind control, it allows the user to read the emotions of another and assist him in making the most convincing arguement with the most convincing tone possible. I svery possible Yhao had it and used it to lower Jensen's guard and she is confirmed to be a master manipulator. Still, Jansen got what he needed out of her, he is not as dumb as you think he is. 6. So one tidbit happens to be similiar to a novel, whoopdie doo. Thats NOT the main story thread. The main story threads only real similirities are to, other Deus Ex games and that is the ethics of bioaugmentation. 7 and 8. Having special augs open up paths lettinmg you FLANK or BYPASS the enemy. However, there are MORE enemies in the late game, with better defenses against cheap headshot kills, with more dangerous weaponry. Heavy rifles kill Jensen fast on Deus Ex mode. And Typhoon is not easy to use on Namir, especially on Deus Ex mode because he tends to kill you if you get close. In fact, getting the new biochip, you don't even have typhoon!!!! Icarus allows you to jump behind enemies and take them out...in fact during a quest in Hengsha, I used it to take out a bunch of enemies. it allows yopu to take shortcuts and escape enemies on rooftops. its far from a gimmick. and really augs outside healing are very unnecessary in the first game. And about hacking, the first Deus Ex is ridicoulous, take Basic hacking and you are set, no need for more advanced versions of the skill. 9. Almost outsells Invisible War (yes, it sold more than the first game as well as of 2009) in two days in the UK alone. http://www.next-gen.biz/news/deus-ex-tops-uk-chart Fallout 3 came out the year of, lets see, GTA IV and MGS4, both higher reviwed games that Fallout 3 beat at the end of th eyear. in fact GTAIV is the most critical acclaimed game this gen on release and Fallout 3 still beat it by years end, You just do not want to face facts..you try to use the logic that Deus Ex is more important than te new game, however, you try to refute the fact that Fallout 3 is the same way to New Vegas. What makes Fallout 3 more "important" is that it provided the formula that Obsidian later built off of in New Vegas. In fact, none of Obsidians games are important really as they rarely build the foundations that make the franchises they take up important, KOTOR for example. Tim Cain stated that Bethesda's take on Fallout was not the same as the old games, although he did enjoy Fallout 3 quite a bit AND stated that it is true to the Fallout name. New Vegas takes Bethesda's formula, not the old school formula. All Obsidian did was build off Beth's formula and style. Hell New Vegas's only advantages is it came out two years later, with better writing and a little more depth and balance...see I can make the same argument as you. A game CAN be not as important as an earlier game in the series BUT be a better game. The first Deus Ex hardly ran away with awards either, lets see, Diablo II, Majora's Mask, Baldur's Gate II to name a few.smerlus
1. you know nothing about guns and this is a fact. To properly maintain aim and to keep the gun from overheating, you're supposed to use small bursts in everything from the M4/M16 to the M2A1.Even in the MK19. These guns can be used fully automatic but only in dire situations and with the guns with a higher rate of fire you run the risk of cook off. 2. So you admit that doing something illegal like hacking a PC forces characters to respond but since they weren't scripted to react to stealing in front of their faces than that's ok? Excuses. Reacting to anything a character does is a form of artificial intelligence. They have very little intelligence when they have trouble opening doors, can't flank properly and don't react to when people steal in front of them. 3. One of the very early interviews. Look it up and once again it's useless to argue this because the developers themselves even admitted to it. What's funny is that I agree with the developer's reason for doing so but you will sit here and disagree with everything i say even when you're dead wrong. 4. No I understand what the Aug does but you have no proof she has it and it also only works in dialogue and in dialogue you have to hear the person talk for a while to know what kind of character they are then choose the right response. Not only does he let her approach him easily but he says very little while she sticks with the "I'm a victim" rabble the whole way through. I also don't know why you think he walked away with something great, he walked into a trap after that. 5. Once again you don't know how stories work. The switcharoo was the first major plot point, normal humans vs aug is a theme. The plot involves uncovering an illuminati plot and stopping it. half the plot was taken from a story that has an extremetly similar premise and setting and you're acting like that should be rewarded. 6. I find it strange how you say the game doesn't get easier but you list all these ways that augs make shooting easier and you can bypass fights or makes battles easier. 7. In a game that you'll never be able to purchase every single aug in a playthrough...they make it so you can approach every situation in so many ways that no single aug is important. I could go the whole game without using rebreather, without using Icarus and without using recoil and still have no trouble beating the game. how are things that you don't ever have to use useful? 8. Not to mention youre comparing sales of a game that launched on 3 systems to games that launched on 2 or 1 and 1/2 in Deus Ex's case. Only advantages huh? How about improved aim, a hardcore mode, companion commands, better factions, a leveling system closer to Fallout 2's, returned DT, better dialogue, better use of skills, better continuity with the lore and the environment. that was done in two years. in 10 years HR improved aim, improved AI, but doesn't reach the average AI of games these days, improve graphics, and improved dialogue options. Oh and don't look now but Deus Ex is rated higher than HR.

1. Guns in real life =/= guns in the game...in fact, the heavy rifle HAS A COOLING UPGRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2. Enemies open doors just fine, they can flank well too. In fact, I have been easily flanked in many areas and the AI is more likely to do so the further they are from you. The AI really perfers to be exposed as little as possible once they see you and are firing at you. They know when to throw grenades and the game doesn't become a cheap nade spam like a Call of Duty game (and COD has crappy AI). Really, the games AI is as good as an average shooter and stealth game. There are far worse AI's in shooters and stealth games. The AI doesn't have to be amazing anyway. And most RPGs you can steal stuff without quelms from NPCs including ALL Deus Ex games. Lets criticize games like TW2 as well. 3. Very early development does always equal truth. Do the trailers of HR accurately portray the story? No. And still you have not provided me with the source. Even then, the earlier games clearly have more advanced tech than HR does. 4. Notice in the scene, Jensen pushes her away twice before she is able to touch him and get behind him. This suggests that she is manipulative enought to drop Jensen's guard, which can suggest an enhancement. Also the aug releases pheremones as well to help in manipualtion. Jensen is extremley hard to influence normally, it basically takes an aug to do this. And Jensen DID come out with key info that broke the conspiracy and he DID suspect that Picus was a trap (however, he still accepted that he had to walk into it). 5. You don't know how the story worked. The story was about the debate over augmentations. How is thi s the story, not just the main theme. BECAUSE in the end, its about stopping the disasterous consquences of a man who turned on his own creation, which was Darrow in regards to augmentation. Darrow is THE CLOSEST to being the main antagonist of the game, even closer than Zhao or Jaron. In fact, Jensen CAN ACCEPT THE ILLUMANATI'S ROLE in one of the endings. The game was never really about stopping the Illumanti. 6. However, the game gives you tougher setups to counter the increased number of augs you get, in the first game, the toughness of the setups very wildly and random. And its a simple FACT that augs are required to get around the levels. This was NOT the case in the first game. Augs didn't open up new paths (very rare in the first two) like this game does. And then, Jensen is more customizable when it comes to aug than JC was. JC's augs were railroaded. Really, DX's skill system was broken and his augs were gimmicks. 7. And how is this bad...in fact, its great that there is no single "required" aug and the player can choose how he wants to play. HOWEVER, if the player wants to do things a certain style, the necessary augs ARE required. 8. However, when a game blows past the lifetime sales of an earlier game in days, you cannot argue system access ESPECIALLY if the games were out 11 years and 8 years respectively. Human Revolution is likely to outsell both the first DX and IW COMBINED. Yet, still based off Bethesda's model and formula. You are grasping straws and your double standards have been exposed. You have one set of standards for the DX series and another for the Fallout series. BOTH games improve on the formula of the past games...better RPG systems, better dialogue, better writing, better characters, better combat, more balanced gameplay. And don't look now, but Fallout 3 is rated higher than New Vegas...see....I love your double standards.
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texasgoldrush

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#55 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 15245 Posts

I like this one much better. While the original's strengths lied in its freedom to choose how you wished to play, poor design and execution ruined that choice (unless you played stealthly). The shooting was so incredibly unsatisfying to use, in fact it was painful, and coupled with the braindead A.I., I had no incentive to fight my way through which is how I wished to play. Melee was simply knocking down cardboard cutouts with two frames of animation, in HR it's much more satisfying seeing takedowns. Facial and body language were basically non-existent in the first, here it's not MUCH better, but is still a vast improvement.

I really couldn't get into the first because, while the concept was great, it was technically poorly done on a few critical fronts. HR strikes me as a much more complete and well rounded package.

MirkoS77
Exactly......... The first Deus Ex game had an amazing concept but the execution was poor. Its just that the concept was so great, people ignore the quite SEVERE flaws that would mark any other game down. Deus Ex is probably one of th emost overrated PC games of all time, especially the pedestal PC Gamer puts it on.
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Qixote

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#56 Qixote
Member since 2002 • 10843 Posts
It is true that Eidos did not take much risks with HR and try to do something revolutionary. Over ten years later since the original, it is not easy to revolutionize a saturated gaming market. Attempting to do something completely different could have fell flat. Instead, they opted for safer route to try to satisfy fans of the original by improving upon it rather than redefine it. I think they succeeded.
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190586385885857957282413308806

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#57 190586385885857957282413308806
Member since 2002 • 13084 Posts

1. Guns in real life =/= guns in the game...in fact, the heavy rifle HAS A COOLING UPGRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2. Enemies open doors just fine, they can flank well too. In fact, I have been easily flanked in many areas and the AI is more likely to do so the further they are from you. The AI really perfers to be exposed as little as possible once they see you and are firing at you. They know when to throw grenades and the game doesn't become a cheap nade spam like a Call of Duty game (and COD has crappy AI). Really, the games AI is as good as an average shooter and stealth game. There are far worse AI's in shooters and stealth games. The AI doesn't have to be amazing anyway. And most RPGs you can steal stuff without quelms from NPCs including ALL Deus Ex games. Lets criticize games like TW2 as well. 3. Very early development does always equal truth. Do the trailers of HR accurately portray the story? No. And still you have not provided me with the source. Even then, the earlier games clearly have more advanced tech than HR does. 4. Notice in the scene, Jensen pushes her away twice before she is able to touch him and get behind him. This suggests that she is manipulative enought to drop Jensen's guard, which can suggest an enhancement. Also the aug releases pheremones as well to help in manipualtion. Jensen is extremley hard to influence normally, it basically takes an aug to do this. And Jensen DID come out with key info that broke the conspiracy and he DID suspect that Picus was a trap (however, he still accepted that he had to walk into it). 5. You don't know how the story worked. The story was about the debate over augmentations. How is thi s the story, not just the main theme. BECAUSE in the end, its about stopping the disasterous consquences of a man who turned on his own creation, which was Darrow in regards to augmentation. Darrow is THE CLOSEST to being the main antagonist of the game, even closer than Zhao or Jaron. In fact, Jensen CAN ACCEPT THE ILLUMANATI'S ROLE in one of the endings. The game was never really about stopping the Illumanti. 6. However, the game gives you tougher setups to counter the increased number of augs you get, in the first game, the toughness of the setups very wildly and random. And its a simple FACT that augs are required to get around the levels. This was NOT the case in the first game. Augs didn't open up new paths (very rare in the first two) like this game does. And then, Jensen is more customizable when it comes to aug than JC was. JC's augs were railroaded. Really, DX's skill system was broken and his augs were gimmicks. 7. And how is this bad...in fact, its great that there is no single "required" aug and the player can choose how he wants to play. HOWEVER, if the player wants to do things a certain style, the necessary augs ARE required. 8. However, when a game blows past the lifetime sales of an earlier game in days, you cannot argue system access ESPECIALLY if the games were out 11 years and 8 years respectively. Human Revolution is likely to outsell both the first DX and IW COMBINED. Yet, still based off Bethesda's model and formula. You are grasping straws and your double standards have been exposed. You have one set of standards for the DX series and another for the Fallout series. BOTH games improve on the formula of the past games...better RPG systems, better dialogue, better writing, better characters, better combat, more balanced gameplay. And don't look now, but Fallout 3 is rated higher than New Vegas...see....I love your double standards.texasgoldrush

1. Well I guess it's a good thing we're talking about recoil then. FACT: short bursts in HR are easier to control than fully automatic fire. You would know this if you had any kind of training on guns and recoil in games is based on recoil in real life.

2. The are plenty of instances where AI doesn't do a thing that you say plus they can't recognize when you steal in front of their faces. It's bad AI no matter how many excuses you want to make for it.

3. Lame excuse #435. Too bad the pics from the interviews haven't changed. A little hint about development, they may change pieces of story from the early development but if they go through the design and sketch art phase into modeling everything, the developers isn't going to scrap all of that. Google it like you did the Onyx Engine. I like when you try to prove me wrong it turns out amusing.

4.Did you listen when AJ confronted Zhao for the second time? He called her afraid of augmented people...probably meaning she's not augmentedthat wayherself. Seeing as she has no signs of augmentation on her head or arms either only some jacks in her backand I'd say you're making things up.It's really that simple. He let his guard down because of bad writing. People warned him about her, he saw for his own eyes that she's on the opposite side, it's his boss' rival however to push the plot forward, the writers had to shoehorn a crappy scene in. It's a joke that you'll try to defend it and even make up things to support it.

5. Did you forget that Darrow works with the Illuminati and he's mad that his creation is used for ill gains? Also because you can join the evil side in the end doesn't mean a thing. In all Deus Ex games you were able to pick an ending that wasn't as good as the others. Except if we were talking about a Bioware game, you'd be saying this ending doesn't count because it isn't happy. Contradict yourself much?

6. Earlier didn't you say that DE went from Hard to Easy and now you're saying that there are random hard parts throughout the game? I think someone's flip flopping a bunch again.

7. It shows the augs as gimmicks because you will never have a hard time finding another way. I've only used rebreather once and that was because i was lazy, I've only used the Icarus one once because i was bored...Using something once in 30 hours of gaming is a gimmick.

8. Oh so now SALES is how a game's quality is based. Last time it was all about scores. Who has double standards?

Actually HR doesn't have a better RPG system. Stealth is rewarded way more than going through the game shooting everything. In fact you can get twice as much XP from going the stealth route. The BEST way to play the game without gimping your character is to go the hacking route first and silently kill everyone. HR is very unbalanced in this aspect so I don't see it walking away as being a better RPG or by being balanced. It's just as flawed except in a different way. Better writing because it copies 1/3 of it's story from a well known novel and the main antogonist group is stolen from the first few games. We should give everyone that blantantly copies a genre high point awards. AJ is a terrible character that you have to make unfounded excuses for so that his personality doesn't fall apart 1/3 of the way through the game.

Nice try saying I'm the hypocrite. I just play devil's advocate as your story changes to disagree with me. You're the one that said professional reviews are better than regular people's then made a topic saying Kevin Van Ord is wrong, You're the one that said Bioware is better than Obsidian because of critical acclaim and now Deus Ex isn't better than HR despite scoring higher. You made the list of "elite RPG devs" first based off of sales, when that didn't work out you used engines and when that didn't work out you went to scores.

I could care less about what the press thinks. You're the one always backing up your shallow opinion with other people's opinions and you don't mind changing from awards, to scores, to money, back to awards whenever you need to. So in the last topic you failed because you admitted Critics' Opinions are worth more than yours and you failed in this topic because DE is higher rated than HR.