IGN poses the question: Should 360/PC versions of Skyrim be penalized for GOTY?

You guys are grasping at straws with the 360 file nonsense.

I have a massive game running right now and it hasn't slowed down a hitch. So do millions of other 360 gamers whou bought it.

Show me some video evidence like I've seen with the PS3.

abonsabo

The problem, while particular to the game's complexity and duration, may be rooted in memory management, according to pixel counting pros Digital Foundry. "The bottom line is that Skyrim is an unbounded game world running on a space-constricted system - and this applies regardless of the platform you play it on, hence reports of the PC version running out of address space and displaying solid colours instead of textures," says Tom Morgan. "The PlayStation 3 is unfortunate in that it's the platform with the most oppressive RAM issues (in addition to the split-pool set-up of the memory, the OS has a larger footprint than its 360 equivalent) so it makes sense that it has the most noticeable issues."Joystiq

I know you think everything is black and white, and everyone is all for against just one console or platform, but you get that kind of thinking from hanging out in System Wars. Spend less time there, and make less baseless assumptions about supposed shifty motives people have for posting this or that thing.

This thread makes my head hurt. Anyone from system wars needs to go back there. dvader654

[QUOTE="abonsabo"]You guys are grasping at straws with the 360 file nonsense.

I have a massive game running right now and it hasn't slowed down a hitch. So do millions of other 360 gamers whou bought it.

Show me some video evidence like I've seen with the PS3.

RandoIph

The problem, while particular to the game's complexity and duration, may be rooted in memory management, according to pixel counting pros Digital Foundry. "The bottom line is that Skyrim is an unbounded game world running on a space-constricted system - and this applies regardless of the platform you play it on, hence reports of the PC version running out of address space and displaying solid colours instead of textures," says Tom Morgan. "The PlayStation 3 is unfortunate in that it's the platform with the most oppressive RAM issues (in addition to the split-pool set-up of the memory, the OS has a larger footprint than its 360 equivalent) so it makes sense that it has the most noticeable issues."Joystiq

I know you think everything is black and white, and everyone is all for against just one console or platform, but you get that kind of thinking from hanging out in System Wars. Spend less time there, and make less baseless assumptions about supposed shifty motives people have for posting this or that thing.

I'd like to take Dracula on his word but I don't know him. I'd love to see some videos posted proving this.

Yes, this has gotten pretty bad. Its actually inexcusable. If they couldnt release a playable version of the game on Playstation 3, it shouldn't have made it to shelves. Completely unfair to Playstation 3 owners. I've experienced technical issues playing about 55 hours of the 360 version that are annoying enough, but nothing game breaking. This also calls to attention the review process the media outlets follow. Cut and pasted scores are completely unfair to the consumer, but convenient for reviewers. Now we're seeing a huge backlash that will hopefully change this nonsense.

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

[QUOTE="dvader654"]This thread makes my head hurt. Anyone from system wars needs to go back there, wow. Anyway why is everyone shocked that a Bethesda game has bugs? Every game they make has them, the games are just too huge to completely test or they just suck at it, either way this is not new. All their games are still excellent, Skyrim is the same as the rest. dvader654

Bethesda dont have an amazing track record actually. And all their big titles tend to not be made well in terms of bugs.

And they all have won awards and are beloved by gamers everywhere. This game will be no different. Why the crazy reaction? What we should be talking about is how horrible our gaming "press" was in informing us on the issues of the PS3 version and yes Bethesda trying to cover it up is ugly. But really as a PS3 owner who has played all their games on the console, honestly I'm used to this crap. Better this than no game at all.dvader654

I don't know, man... I'd rather have no game than one that's riddled with bugs aplenty. I think they should have just canceled the PS3 version or at least delayed it until they could find a good solution to the memory issues. Releasing the game as is was a terrible idea, and they know it (as evident by them holding back on review copies for that version). Would have saved everyone a lot of trouble if they had done that. Would have helped if the press had actually reviewed that version in full as well. Course, that's probably asking too much given Bethesda's track record and the press' constant incompetence.

[QUOTE="dvader654"]

[QUOTE="Ilovegames1992"]

Bethesda dont have an amazing track record actually. And all their big titles tend to not be made well in terms of bugs.

Jbul

[QUOTE="dvader654"]And they all have won awards and are beloved by gamers everywhere. This game will be no different. Why the crazy reaction? What we should be talking about is how horrible our gaming "press" was in informing us on the issues of the PS3 version and yes Bethesda trying to cover it up is ugly. But really as a PS3 owner who has played all their games on the console, honestly I'm used to this crap. Better this than no game at all.c_rake

I don't know, man... I'd rather have no game than one that's riddled with bugs aplenty. I think they should have just canceled the PS3 version or at least delayed it until they could find a good solution to the memory issues. Releasing the game as is was a terrible idea, and they know it (as evident by them holding back on review copies for that version). Would have saved everyone a lot of trouble if they had done that. Would have helped if the press had actually reviewed that version in full as well. Course, that's probably asking too much given Bethesda's track record and the press' constant incompetence.

UPDATE guys...

PS3 REVIEWS for SKYRIM being TAKEN DOWN from Gamerankings and Metacritic

It's not listed at Gamerankings anymore and only has 12 reviews left at Metacritic.

Looks like the P33 version is going to get a readjusted score.

Gamerankings

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim

and Metacritic!

http://www.gamerankings.com/ps3/index.html

Will Gamepot answer the call?

I'd be frustrated beyond belief if they'd canceled it. I've got 85 hours in the PS3 version and while there was some trouble with the framerate before the patch, it has been smoother sailing for me than either Fallout 3 or New Vegas. Honestly, the game is still a GOTY for me and I'm playing the 'worst' version.rragnaar

So the patch actually fixed the problems, mostly? Hm. Lot of the reports I've been hearing about kept suggesting otherwise. Good to know.

[QUOTE="rragnaar"]I'd be frustrated beyond belief if they'd canceled it. I've got 85 hours in the PS3 version and while there was some trouble with the framerate before the patch, it has been smoother sailing for me than either Fallout 3 or New Vegas. Honestly, the game is still a GOTY for me and I'm playing the 'worst' version.c_rake

So the patch actually fixed the problems, mostly? Hm. Lot of the reports I've been hearing about kept suggesting otherwise. Good to know.

This thread makes my head hurt. Anyone from system wars needs to go back there, wow. Anyway why is everyone shocked that a Bethesda game has bugs? Every game they make has them, the games are just too huge to completely test or they just suck at it, either way this is not new. All their games are still excellent, Skyrim is the same as the rest. dvader654

I don't think anyone is surprised by there being bugs, in fact I think most people were expecting it. However, what many were not anticipating were the bugs of this magnitude. Framerates dropping to near zero after 60 some hours of play? That's more than just a bug, it's a gamebreaking issue.

Skyrim viewed from a gameplay perspective is absolutely fantastic, I won't deny that. Yes Skyrim is a huge game, however, when the technical issues make the game practically unplayable, then it's a problem.

Apparently all the PS3 scores of the game got pulled from Gamerankings and Metacritic. Going to be interesting to see where this goes from here.

[QUOTE="dvader654"]This thread makes my head hurt. Anyone from system wars needs to go back there, wow. Anyway why is everyone shocked that a Bethesda game has bugs? Every game they make has them, the games are just too huge to completely test or they just suck at it, either way this is not new. All their games are still excellent, Skyrim is the same as the rest. Vari3ty

I don't think anyone is surprised by there being bugs, in fact I think most people were expecting it. However, what many were not anticipating were the bugs of this magnitude. Framerates dropping to near zero after 60 some hours of play? That's more than just a bug, it's a gamebreaking issue.

Skyrim viewed from a gameplay perspective is absolutely fantastic, I won't deny that. Yes Skyrim is a huge game, however, when the technical issues make the game practically unplayable, then it's a problem.

Apparently all the PS3 scores of the game got pulled from Gamerankings and Metacritic. Going to be interesting to see where this goes from here.

I'm think a mass recall of PS3 reviews may be in order.

Wow. Really? All the PS3 scores got pulled from Gamerankings and Metacritic? Looks like this s*** just got real. It's going to get very interesting seeing what happens next.Archangel3371

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]I tend to agree with your stance

It's a catch 22.

What Bethesda did was low,

but on the same token they still created one of the greatest games ever for the 360 and PC, and that cannot go unmentioned.

abonsabo

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

If the 360 and PC versions are fine, then they deserve the scores they received. if the PS3 version sucked, then they should call it as they see it. Give the PS3 version a low score and put the blame on Bethesda. Why should the other platforms be penalized when the problem is on a different platform? IGN should eat some crow too for not doing separate reviews.

abonsabo

It's a catch 22.

What Bethesda did was low,

but on the same token they still created one of the greatest games ever for the 360 and PC, and that cannot go unmentioned.

To be honest i doubt this will do anything to Bethesda, they have been making very buggy games for ages its just a few f them are so damn good it doesn't matter.

[QUOTE="RandoIph"]Skyrim was once in the running for GOTY like Gears of War 3, then it took an arrow to the knee.Ilovegames1992

Íf Batman AC doesn't get it, i will cry, for about a month.

It should have never been in the running for GOTY, IMO.

AvatarMan96

Wow. Really? All the PS3 scores got pulled from Gamerankings and Metacritic? Looks like this s*** just got real. It's going to get very interesting seeing what happens next.Archangel3371

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

[QUOTE="RandoIph"]Yes it should, because despite how much it is not being reported, the 360 version can and does suffer from the same show stopping problems with larger save files. Yet this is ignored. Both console versions were released far too early, in an unfinished state. Fact.abonsabo

It's technically an issue with each version of the game due to memory problems. The PS3 has the first issues because of the divided memory, then the 360, and the PC varies user to user although more RAM is more likely with modern PCs so that it won't be quite as big of an issue.

Still, it's an issue that shouldn't exist at all. Bethesda really dropped the ball with this one.

I have a massive game running right now and it hasn't slowed down a hitch. So do millions of other 360 gamers whou bought it.

Show me some video evidence like I've seen with the PS3.

This isn't System Wars, no need to get so defensive. I wasn't attacking the 360 version, just reporting what I've read from various articles and forums across the interwebs. Is it just a bunch of people lying? Could be. But there have been a lot of people reporting the issues that I respect, so I chose to believe them.

I bet the reviewers are mad as hell - now they're actually going to have to play the PS3 version for 100 hours and write a legitimate review of it. Their workload for the next month just doubled.

I don't know what to say - Oblivion was crap at launch, Fallout 3 was crap at launch, New Vegas was unplayable at launch, yet vast numbers of people still run out and buy Skyrim at launch. Hell they even declared it Game of the Year six months before it was released.

Complain on the internet all you want, but as long as you keep giving Bethesda your money, they'll keep laughing all the way to the bank.

I bet the reviewers are mad as hell - now they're actually going to have to play the PS3 version for 100 hours and write a legitimate review of it. Their workload for the next month just doubled.

I don't know what to say - Oblivion was crap at launch, Fallout 3 was crap at launch, New Vegas was unplayable at launch, yet vast numbers of people still run out and buy Skyrim at launch. Hell they even declared it Game of the Year six months before it was released.

Complain on the internet all you want, but as long as you keep giving Bethesda your money, they'll keep laughing all the way to the bank.

Jackc8

At least Gamespot reported that New Vegas ran like crap upon launch, and then updated their review that a patch fixed it.

Skyrim was reported to run fine by several publications. When I bought it, that held true. Then 50 hours in and I simply can't play it anymore. Hopefully this'll be a lesson to everyone involved, even the consumer.

so just cos of one platform?

the way i see it is GOTY should be judged on the best version of any game

they were given 360 versions to review, no ps3 versions. They said it themselves....

I'm not really surprised by any of this. I have always come under the impression that games of Bethesda's magnitude are going to have some issues. Perhaps my expectations are low to begin with. However, I have never had any major problems with any of their games. I've played Oblivion, Fallout and New Vegas with little to no hang ups. Sure, I get the occasional freeze but that's why you save often.I even got a freeze last night playing Skyrim but it wasn't anything to be all up in arms about.

I wouldn't doubt that people are having some issues but there is so much hyperbole to sift through that it is difficult to tell the real situations from the exaggerated ones making it a challenge to really gauge how many people's games are being effected.

Even with all the *****ing I have done on these very forums about glitches, bugs and freezing my system up it is still GOTY material for me.Dracula68

Even with all the *****ing I have done on these very forums about glitches, bugs and freezing my system up it is still GOTY material for me.Dracula68

you sure you're not smoking something?Allicrombie

Do you hear me knocking on your door?

Skyrim is a one of kind type of game. There is no other game (as far as I know) that offers the type of gameplay its known for. Yes it has bugs and glitches but, it is excusable to some extent and this mainly due to the nature of the game itself. Its a stupendously large open world with many interconnecting attributes. Keeping track of all of these entities and making it bug free is very impractical. If the game suck on the PS3 as some claim then it should not be a contender for that system ONLY, this not quantum physics and should not even be pondered.

Skyrim is a one of kind type of game. There is no other game (as far as I know) that offers the type of gameplay its known for. Yes it has bugs and glitches but, it is excusable to some extent >Pedro

I stopped reading here. No it isn't. They have a product for sale at full retail price, it should work. They shouldn't get a free pass because it's got different style, gameplay or is bigger or whatever. Good for them, they are trying to stand out and push boundaries but it is their job to solve these issues before they release the game, otherwise they shouldn't bite off more then they can chew. Bethesda keep getting away with releasing low quality titles from a technical, glitch, bug perspective and it's about time they got bitten for it.

AzelKosMos

Is there any other game like this that is bug free?

[QUOTE="Pedro"]

Skyrim is a one of kind type of game. There is no other game (as far as I know) that offers the type of gameplay its known for. Yes it has bugs and glitches but, it is excusable to some extent >AzelKosMos

Yup. Anyone can make a game with a million things to do, but you have to also make sure it actually runs. Crysis 2 came out on consoles and everyone boosted about the amazing graphics, but the game ran at sub 20 frames per second the moment you fired a gun. What good is a best looking game when it runs like s***?

That said, I agree with Pedro that other 'working' versions of Skyrim should be penalized for the PS3 version's shortcomings.

IMO, the issue goes deeper than just giving GOTY to the other versions of Skyrim. Bethesda cheated gamers out of their money, and did not give any review copies of the PS3 version to the media, because they knew what would happen. The 360 and PC versions are basically their shields from consumer backlash and negative reviews. I don't think they're deserving of any GOTY awards, for whatever good it does. If they don't get some kind of message, they won't step their game up (no pun intended).

Bottom line is, they knew they ****** up, but did nothing about it. And the response is to reward them?

IMO, the issue goes deeper than just giving GOTY to the other versions of Skyrim. Bethesda cheated gamers out of their money, and did not give any review copies of the PS3 version to the media, because they knew what would happen. The 360 and PC versions are basically their shields from consumer backlash and negative reviews. I don't think they're deserving of any GOTY awards, for whatever good it does. If they don't get some kind of message, they won't step their game up (no pun intended).

Bottom line is, they knew they ****** up, but did nothing about it. And the response is to reward them?

King9999

Ive got 50 hours on my save file, and over 7MB in size and have yet to have a single lag problem other than an occasional loading hitch and a couple freezes.

Im wondering if this is as widespread a problem as people think or if the few that are having problems just being very very vocal about it.

I think this idea is ridiculous. Keep the politics between game journalism and game development/publication out of my GOTY awards. I read reviews/look in to awards to be well informed. If Skyrim is the best game of the year, I want to know that. I'm not interested in sending a message, because I don't care about that and I wouldn't think many gamers/consumers do either. I understand the sentiment for sure, and game journalists should go ahead and write editorials blasting the developers for this fiasco. Give the PS3 version a low score. But I don't want to be less informed because someone wanted to send someone a message.

Awards and review scores are not for developers, they do not reward them. They are for consumers to better inform them.

Being a PS3 owner, I am not happy about the problems the PS3 version of Skyrim is experiencing. The slowdown is very noticeable and at times renders the game unplayable. It started with me about 25 hours into the game, it got so bad I just deleted my save game file and stopped playing. I will wait until this problem has been fixed, otherwise, its worthless to invest anytime into the game.

As far as the GOTY award goes, if the award is not console specific, then it should be penalized. A series of bugs or glitches in one console version of the game that render a game unplayable is a representation of that game across the board.

I usually hold off on open world type games like Skyrim, Fallout, etc because the usually have a bunch of bugs that get worked out in the first few months, and its just better to experience a game start to finish without thesse bugs. I have been waiting for Skyrim for a long time, and bought it on release day. I was having a blast until I ran into these bugs.

Oh, what to do...what to do? I was pondering about the question yesterday and I fell into a rut. Should Skyrim be taken off of the ballet for GOTY on all sites? On one hand the game (when working) seems like a superb gamel terrific freedom, scoring musical numbers, fun and varied gameplay, lots of content, and just an extremely well made game with a few bugs and glitches that can be bothersome. On the other hand, because of this PS3 frustration and game breaking pretty much it has become the broken version of the game and when you give a game the GOTY award you say that all versions of the game get GOTY....including the PS3 version. So what do we do? :?

Pull Skyrim off the ballet because we should NOT give a broken game GOTY, or should we leave it on for its PC and Xbox-360 counterpart? I want to keep Skyrim on because it seems like such a great game but these gamebreaking glitches are serious buisness and we can't simply lay down a golden GOTY award to a busted broken game on one version. Dang it...why Bethesda? Why do you make this so hard! :cry:

Ive got 50 hours on my save file, and over 7MB in size and have yet to have a single lag problem other than an occasional loading hitch and a couple freezes.

Im wondering if this is as widespread a problem as people think or if the few that are having problems just being very very vocal about it.

svaubel

[QUOTE="AzelKosMos"]I stopped reading here. No it isn't. They have a product for sale at full retail price, it should work. They shouldn't get a free pass because it's got different style, gameplay or is bigger or whatever. Good for them, they are trying to stand out and push boundaries but it is their job to solve these issues before they release the game, otherwise they shouldn't bite off more then they can chew. Bethesda keep getting away with releasing low quality titles from a technical, glitch, bug perspective and it's about time they got bitten for it.

Pedro

Is there any other game like this that is bug free?

If the 360 and PC versions are fine, then they deserve the scores they received. if the PS3 version sucked, then they should call it as they see it. Give the PS3 version a low score and put the blame on Bethesda. Why should the other platforms be penalized when the problem is on a different platform? IGN should eat some crow too for giving the PS3 version high marks.

jun_aka_pekto

Well, because Skyrim is a cross-platform game, so it should be judged cross-platform, quite simple. If one version is terrible and the other two are okay and the problem is down to bethesda then you should hinder bethesda and lower the average of the game! And Sony shouldn't be hindered beucase the PS3 is a constant in the whole equation, your hardware doesn't just suddenly change in a PS3, and bethesda knew that and should have programmed the game correctly, or just not released it on PS3.

I'm sure this would also come under the Buyer's rights or the Sales Act or some sort of other legislation. Basically the legislation says that you can't sell a faulty product (which is obviously unanimously considered to be fair) or a product that is decietful to the buyer, i.e. you cant sell an empty amplifier as an amplifier - you can sell it as an empty amplifier though - if you follow....

So, I think this is being both decietful to the PS3 consumers because Bethesda must have known about these issues OR it is selling a faulty product which is also illegal!

Bethesda should, most certainly, be punished in some way...

I'm sure this would also come under the Buyer's rights or the Sales Act or some sort of other legislation. Basically the legislation says that you can't sell a faulty product (which is obviously unanimously considered to be fair) or a product that is decietful to the buyer, i.e. you cant sell an empty amplifier as an amplifier - you can sell it as an empty amplifier though - if you follow....

So, I think this is being both decietful to the PS3 consumers because Bethesda must have known about these issues OR it is selling a faulty product which is also illegal!

Bethesda should, most certainly, be punished in some way...

Maximus_Fett

Now that is overly dramatic and Bethesda is definitely not the first to release non optimal software nor would it be the last. And its very unlikely that anything can be done for software companies have been doing this for the past two decades. In fact all software are release with issues, the real problem lies in what is acceptable bugs and what bugs isn't acceptable. In the end the proof lies heavily on the consumer with regards to the game purposely being released faulty.

Thank god I bought the Xbox (/insert trollface.gif)

I'm sure this would also come under the Buyer's rights or the Sales Act or some sort of other legislation. Basically the legislation says that you can't sell a faulty product (which is obviously unanimously considered to be fair) or a product that is decietful to the buyer, i.e. you cant sell an empty amplifier as an amplifier - you can sell it as an empty amplifier though - if you follow....

So, I think this is being both decietful to the PS3 consumers because Bethesda must have known about these issues OR it is selling a faulty product which is also illegal!

Bethesda should, most certainly, be punished in some way...

Maximus_Fett

I agree, but it would be near impossible to prove Bethesda knew it was faulty when it released. And obviously they are going to deny it outright as well.

This larger save game file freezing/slowdown renders the game unplayable at that point. It actually started for me after logging 25 hours into the game, I started noticing strange slow down. I continued to play through it but by the time I got close to 30 hours it was so bad it was virtually unplayable. I haven't played since, and I don't plan on playing until a real patch is released to fix the problem.