Improving the GGD.(We want to hear from you!)

Hi! We've been talking behind the scenes about the General Games Discussion forum for a while now, and trying to brainstorm ways in which this forum can retain its unique identity as a place focused on gaming discussion while spurring on more activity and still being open to new users. This is where you come in. Are you an old school GGD poster that wants things to stay the same, or have you been looking at how things are done here and wanting to see changes? Are you a new user that has been turned off by how tightly we moderate this forum when it comes to what sorts of threads we allow? We want to hear from you. Feel free to be as negative or as positive as you like as long as you are respectful.

Speaking personally, I'm hoping that we can keep the 'Discussion' in General Games Discussion as our main focus going forward, while still relaxing the rules a bit. This forum is one that I love, and we don't cause trouble here. This is by far the most tame and well behaved board that I frequent, and I like that. I feel like that this is because we've always tried to encourage threads that emphasize discussion, but that comes with the downside of this being a place where newer users have a hard time assimilating. I personally see this as a board to discuss the cutting edge of gaming, whether that be breaking news or current releases. I think that is what the GGD regulars have molded it to be. I think we could still make some changes that would encourage new users without alienating the people who have put years worth of time and lots of effort into making the board what it is today.

Being that this is a game website, and we are the General Games Discussion board, this board should be more active than it is. As it stands, System Wars and the console specific boards far outpace the GGD in activity. What are your ideas for making this place better? I've got some potential rule changes that I think should be discussed, but as much as we are interested in feedback on the following points, we want to hear new ideas and feedback from you.

Potential rule changes:

1. Relaxing the rules a little to allow poll/list type threads, while locking repetitive ones.

2. Allowing emoticon only responses to posts.

3. Allowing all caps responses to posts.

Rules that should stay the same:

1. No character battle threads.

2. System comparisons to a minimum, limited to NPD threads, Japanese Weekly Software/Hardware threads and limited to 'which version of this game should I buy' posts in the GGD Game Recommendation thread.

3. Hardware specific questions should be asked in the console or PC specific boards.

4. No system recommendations. This kinda goes with rules 2 and 3, but I think 'what console should I buy' type threads are a backdoor to system wars type posts.

What do you think should change, and what do you think should stay the same. This is your board, and we want to help you make it better.

My thoughts on the rule changes, and explanations for what I think should stay the same:

1. Relaxing the rules a little to allow poll/list type threads, while locking repetitive ones.

We aren't proposing that we add poll functionality to the board, as that encourages people to vote and not post. I still think it would be ok for users to post 'What are your top 10 games this gen?' kinds of questions, or 'Do you prefer FPS games over RPGs?' as long as those threads are worded to promote discussion.

2. Allowing one word and emoticon only responses to posts.

I think there are times when it is appropriate to quote someone and reply with a ':lol:' emoticon, and that given the nature of this board, I don't think it would be abused. If a particular user made a habit of this, or was using it to troll or pad their post count, that is different, but as is, I think the rule could be relaxed.

3. Allowing all caps responses to posts.

There are times when it is ok to respond to some big news with 'HOLY CRAP FINAL FANTASY JUST WENT MULTIPLATFORM!!!'. We'd still moderate all caps thread titles, as well as people starting a thread post in all caps. In general, the new rule would just allow for all caps responses to big news posts, and whatnot, and would be only looked at for moderation if a user was using it in an abusive way.

Rules that should stay the same:

1. No character battle threads.

I don't think these will ever lead to a good discussion. Hypothetical battles between fictional characters aren't interesting, and they don't promote mature discussion.

2. System comparisons to a minimum, limited to NPD threads, Japanese Weekly Software/Hardware threads and limited to 'which version of this game should I buy' posts in the GGD Game Recommendation thread.

This is pretty self explanatory. We aren't System Wars, but there are specific times when system comparisons are ok.

3. Hardware specific questions should be asked in the console or PC specific boards.

This is a game discussion board, and we want to encourage just that. If you've got a question about why your PC won't run a game, or you just got the YLOD or the RROD, it is better suited to the dedicated board for that hardware.

4. No system recommendations.

This kinda goes with rules 2 and 3, but I think 'what console should I buy' type threads are a backdoor to system wars type posts.

If you want more discussion, allow for it. Let people talk about other systems, and if they want to make System War-ish comments, then they can head to System Wars. System Wars is a board that was designed to cull exactly those kinds of heated debates. I believe people are perfectly capable of conducting themselves in discussion without having to lower their standards. I think it's kind of unfair to say that you can't talk about system comparisons here and then tell a user to go to System Wars, which may be a place he despises. JustPlainLucas

I want everyone in here to post in the nude.

You know me Rags, you know exactly how I feel about the GGD and how much it means to me. I'd say go for a more relaxed, laid back board management. I'm pretty sure that with enough time and input of both newcomers and old timers alike, the board will eventually be able to self-moderate to an extent, filtering by itself topics and separating the good, worthwhile ones from the useless.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to bring this subject to the table for discussion. You know we're here to back you up.

Nude.

I want everyone in here to post in the nude.

You know me Rags, you know exactly how I feel about the GGD and how much it means to me. I'd say go for a more relaxed, laid back board management. I'm pretty sure that with enough time and input of both newcomers and old timers alike, the board will eventually be able to self-moderate to an extent, filtering by itself topics and separating the good, worthwhile ones from the useless.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to bring this subject to the table for discussion. You know we're here to back you up.

Nude.

SteelAttack

I have no problems with poll threads as long as the OP doesnt post a single sentence post. I also believe game specific threads should stay in their respective official threads. We dont need ten different threads for the same game, or even the same news. This happens way too often in GGD and it pisses me off!

I have no problems with poll threads as long as the OP doesnt post a single sentence post. I also believe game specific threads should stay in their respective official threads. We dont need ten different threads for the same game, or even the same news. This happens way too often in GGD and it pisses me off!

S0lidSnake

you know what? scratch my first post, im gonna give it another shot.

i think ggd needs to be more like the Gaming Forum of neogaf in that it should be more about industry news, game news/previews, and official threads for almost every major game. Right now we have way too many "question" threads. Here are the threads on the first page alone:

Who is the sexiest video game character?

Favorite level in Mario platformers

Vietnam

Raptr?

What do u expect from fallout : new vegas?

Rumor Revived: CastleVania: HD -- Images Pulled by Konami? What does this mean?

Has Atlus developed games for the 360/PS3?

What if gaming was illegalize

Have you ever sold a game or given it to a friend and then regretted it???

Super Street Fighter IV - Need tips? Fighting Fundamentals Links on First Page!

Official Super Mario Galaxy 2 thread - More pics, vids. 4/30

Stories about MMOs

Cod MW2 29.99 5/4-5/10

***Best Game Ever***

Star Wolves 3: Civil War...

super street fighter IV question

Best game trailer

Have you ever sold a game without playing it?

Right or wrong?

---------------------

look at all these thread titles that end with a ? . seriously wtf is this ****? the forum is not a wikipedia forum, it's not ASK JEEVES! it's for discussion. The only thread up there that i wanna click on is Phantom's castlevania thread, because it's about SOMETHING. The problem is that you are trying to fix something that cant be fixed. new comers to GGD will always take it as a forum to ask random questions. Allowing smilies, poll threads, and caps isnt gonna make that forum better. Might make it more livelier, but would it promote discussion? I doubt it.

Instead of allowing new comers to **** up the board. you can have threads regulars usually post in. threads about industry news, previews, and stuff. we can have Game of the month threads where instead of just voting for your favorite game for that month, you TALK about it and see if we can reach a consensus. If we cant, fine. at least it would result in some discussion. Encourage posters to post some previews. then have your most anticipated video game of the month thread. where instead of just listing some game, you can post screenshots,videos,gifs to try and hype up your game. we need to build a sense of community and the best way to do that is by having weekly threads about SOMETHING,ANYTHING. News,previews,reviews. Say what you will about Edge's reviews, their threads are/were at least lively. and they do have some kind of discussion, maybe not the best kind of discussion, usually its just rants, but at least its better than watching 50 top ten lists in one page.

Why not do game of the month awards? yeah, it will probably flop like our annual awards, but it would be something. We could recognize not just the best game to come out that month, but also the most underappreciated or the best story or whatever. Even if 5 people vote in it every month, we would still have 12 threads at the end of the year that we can go back to and see if we missed out on a game with the most original story or multiplayer. A game like Just Cause 2 might not appear on many GOTY lists at the end of the year, but it would sweep the awards for April.

Again, instead of allowing poll threads, ENCOURAGE industry threads, previews threads, or even blog-worthy threads as long as they are about a specific video game. Even if it is a rant, it would encourage discussion.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

I have no problems with poll threads as long as the OP doesnt post a single sentence post. I also believe game specific threads should stay in their respective official threads. We dont need ten different threads for the same game, or even the same news. This happens way too often in GGD and it pisses me off!

rragnaar

i guess you are right. it was just really annoying to see a million Battlefield and MW2 threads right when you have the official thread on the same freaking page.

you know what? scratch my first post, im gonna give it another shot.

S0lidSnake

This is a public forum though. Just because someone posts something that you wouldn't post in, doesn't mean that it is automatically not thread worthy. I think it is better for people to lead by example when it comes to threads, that is what I've always tried to do anyway. I think people should make the kinds of threads that they want to see rather than complaining about threads they don't want to see.

'HOLY CRAP FINAL FANTASY JUST WENT MULTIPLATFORM!!!'rragnaar

Personally, I am against posting in all caps no matter what - especially if it's about Final Fantasy. :P It's annoying and a pain to read.

As for polls and emoticons, it's important to put things into context. It's why the queue can be so dangerous, it's devoid of context. I would also ask that mods who do not frequent GGD not to moderate it either - and that goes for any board, really. Misunderstandings usually arise when a mod moderates a board he/she is not familiar with.

I'm sorry that I don't have any real suggestions, but it's been a long time since I've ran out of ideas and out of steam. These days I come here to talk about games, if there's something interesting going on, great, if not, whatever.

I think people should make the kinds of threads that they want to see rather than complaining about threads they don't want to see.

rragnaar

That's not what Im doing. My beef is with the number of wiki threads we get everyday. I dont have a problem with threads for SMG, SFIV or anything like that. It's the question mark threads that make this forum look more like a general education forum than a general discussion forum. that's the real problem here, too many throwaway threads. Letting people post poll threads isnt gonna solve that.

[QUOTE="rragnaar"]

I think people should make the kinds of threads that they want to see rather than complaining about threads they don't want to see.

S0lidSnake

That's not what Im doing. My beef is with the number of wiki threads we get everyday. I dont have a problem with threads for SMG, SFIV or anything like that. It's the question mark threads that make this forum look more like a general education forum than a general discussion forum. that's the real problem here, too many throwaway threads. Letting people post poll threads isnt gonna solve that.

Force people to use the search function, honestly a lot of threads wouldn't need to be created if people actually used the search tool.

My thoughts on the rule changes, and explanations for what I think should stay the same:

rragnaar

Ugh, character battle threads, please keep those locked up and restrained to UCBs where they belong. In fact, I wish they would just be kept on the GameFAQS boards altogether. I agree with the list of thread topics that should remain on the "No" list.

All in all, I think the changes are reasonable enough. I think the mods adopting more of a "let em' play" mentality would help GGD. It's just the malicious flaming and SW crap that needs to be kept in check, but you and Travo know what you're doing.;)

Force people to use the search function, honestly a lot of threads wouldn't need to be created if people actually used the search tool.

killeer2007

Maybe a sticky thread with search suggestions perhaps? We have to accept the fact that we're going to get many new users here who may not be so 'Net savvy.

If you want more discussion, allow for it. I think it's kind of unfair to say that you can't talk about system comparisons here and then tell a user to go to System Wars, which may be a place he despises. JustPlainLucas

If were talking about technical aspects that can be backed up by technical facts, or the direction that any of the big three may be headed, etc, then yes, absolutely. We should be able to discuss those things without the boilerplate reply of, "TAKE IT TO SYSTEM WARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Force people to use the search function, honestly a lot of threads wouldn't need to be created if people actually used the search tool.

killeer2007

We should have a trivia thread here, I love trivia.ZombiefiedZomB

Jody did start that Box Art thread. We'll likely see more of that stuff from time to time.

[QUOTE="ZombiefiedZomB"]We should have a trivia thread here, I love trivia.QuistisTrepe_

Jody did start that Box Art thread. We'll likely see more of that stuff from time to time.

Hmm sounds like some good suggestions all around although I'm not sure about the one word responses and emoticon thing. You could end up with a bunch of different users just posting those thus having a whole page or even more of just those. Since each response using just one word or an emoticon could be from a unique user it wouldn't be fair to try to point out anyone in particular.Archangel3371

If I saw a thread like that, it would get closed with a warning not to do it again. The only reason I'm interested in revising the rule is that I've seen people use emoticon only responses and one word responses in ways that aren't totally disruptive when they quote people. I can understand if people don't want to see that though. I think it would be easy to spot abuse though. I just know that for me, there are a lot of times when I want to quote a SteelAttack post or a Godmode post and reply with a big old ":lol:" emoticon, even if I had nothing else to add, and I'd have a hard time moderating anyone who did something similar. That's all I was saying.

[QUOTE="rragnaar"]'HOLY CRAP FINAL FANTASY JUST WENT MULTIPLATFORM!!!'UpInFlames

Personally, I am against posting in all caps no matter what - especially if it's about Final Fantasy. :P It's annoying and a pain to read.

As for polls and emoticons, it's important to put things into context. It's why the queue can be so dangerous, it's devoid of context. I would also ask that mods who do not frequent GGD not to moderate it either - and that goes for any board, really. Misunderstandings usually arise when a mod moderates a board he/she is not familiar with.

I'm sorry that I don't have any real suggestions, but it's been a long time since I've ran out of ideas and out of steam. These days I come here to talk about games, if there's something interesting going on, great, if not, whatever.

Hey, I appreciate your feedback a lot. I agree that context is everything. I try to look through the queue for the handful of GGD reports that show up at least twice a day. Fortunately, our team right now seems pretty content to leave reports alone if they aren't familiar with the board it came from. It is why I don't touch System Wars stuff unless it is blatantly bad.

[QUOTE="QuistisTrepe_"]

[QUOTE="ZombiefiedZomB"]We should have a trivia thread here, I love trivia.rragnaar

Jody did start that Box Art thread. We'll likely see more of that stuff from time to time.

What about a thread where we post recent gaming achievements/accolades or just plain amazing moments that happened that you want to share.

For example, my friend and I play a crap load of NHL together in the EA club mode. We were playing these guys that were dominating us and they were up 4-0. In the third period we came back three goals and with 50 seconds left I got on a breakaway but was tripped so it came down to a penalty shot. It was straight out of a mighty ducks movie but I scored the tying shot and took it to OT where we won on a Power play.

Or if the GGD has a SSFIV tourney, you can post the results of who won and how you did for example. It would be even better if you can include vids/screenshots of these amazing moments.

Maybe its redudant with the GGD lounge already in place where you can do the same thing but I'm just throwing the idea out there.

Damn that Habs victory must have really got to you. Either that or your Extenze prescription isn't working :P

Rag, you shoudlve let that pet thread slide. Cool thread.

1. Relaxing the rules a little to allow poll/list type threads, while locking repetitive ones.

Sure.

2. Allowing one word and emoticon only responses to posts.

Definitely. I like that this board encourages discussion but emoticon and one word replies do not take anything away from a discussion if used in the right way.

3. Allowing all caps responses to posts.

Yeah, same as above.

4. No character battle threads.

All the same to me. I'd actually like to have more threads about characters but character battles are usually lame.

5. System comparisons to a minimum, limited to NPD threads, Japanese Weekly Software/Hardware threads and limited to 'which version of this game should I buy' posts in the GGD Game Recommendation thread.

Keep this the same.

6. Hardware specific questions should be asked in the console or PC specific boards.

They have their own dedicated boards. Don't change this.

7. No system recommendations.

Keep this rule, system recommendation threads are boring.

5. System comparisons to a minimum, limited to NPD threads, Japanese Weekly Software/Hardware threads and limited to 'which version of this game should I buy' posts in the GGD Game Recommendation thread.

Keep this the same.

6. Hardware specific questions should be asked in the console or PC specific boards.

They have their own dedicated boards. Don't change this.

7. No system recommendations.

Keep this rule, system recommendation threads are boring.

inoperativeRS

This.

(lookie, one word reply)

I'm ok for the ban on character battles ("Who'd win between A and B?"), although I'd gladly post on comparison threads focusing on specific traits or features of a character/game, for example: "Who has the better guns, A or B?" or "Which game has the best cast of characters, A or B?" Black_Knight_00

GameFAQs boards are calling you.:P

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]I'm ok for the ban on character battles ("Who'd win between A and B?"), although I'd gladly post on comparison threads focusing on specific traits or features of a character/game, for example: "Who has the better guns, A or B?" or "Which game has the best cast of characters, A or B?" QuistisTrepe_

GameFAQs boards are calling you.:P

Please allow all caps and emoticon only messages. E3 is coming up, I need that. :Pdvader654

We need that thread to be shock and awe friendly.

Even though I don't come here a ton, I'll toss in my $0.02.

Potential rule changes:

1. Relaxing the rules a little to allow poll/list type threads, while locking repetitive ones. I think this should almost be all or nothing..."repetitive" is fairly subjective, and while it may work for what is on the current page, I don't feel it should go beyond that. Users should feel comfortable making poll-type threads, even if they are anemic discussion-wise...There is nowhere else for threads like that to go, currently


2. Allowing emoticon only responses to posts. Yeah, definitely agree with this as long as the intent of the emoticon is clear. Sometimes the "lol" emoticon is used to laugh AT people...


3. Allowing all caps responses to posts. Considering this is something explicitly outlined in the Terms of Use as well as general forum decorem, I don't think this should happen.

Rules that should stay the same:

1. No character battle threads. Ehhh, as much as I hate these threads, I don't see the harm in allowing them, to be honest. We allow threads like this in OT, I don't see why this shouldn't be the same.


2. System comparisons to a minimum, limited to NPD threads, Japanese Weekly Software/Hardware threads and limited to 'which version of this game should I buy' posts in the GGD Game Recommendation thread. I think this sounds fine


3. Hardware specific questions should be asked in the console or PC specific boards. If there is a board better suited for a hardware question, sure...But this board should be a catch-all if there isn't. This can still be moderator discretion, of course.


4. No system recommendations. This kinda goes with rules 2 and 3, but I think 'what console should I buy' type threads are a backdoor to system wars type posts. Generally, I agree that all system vs. system stuff inevitably leads to System Wars stuff...I wish users had a less volatile place to ask for this stuff. For that reason alone I feel like these should be allowed, but heavily watched. The Legacy forum allows talk of older system vs. system type stuff, and it's worked out pretty well.

[QUOTE="rragnaar"]'HOLY CRAP FINAL FANTASY JUST WENT MULTIPLATFORM!!!'UpInFlames

Personally, I am against posting in all caps no matter what

@ UpInFlames, Spazzx, and AzelKosMos: Alright... I can back down on the all caps thing. Like I've said, I've just seen a few times where I think it was acceptable, but maybe it is better to use my discretion in those cases than it is to open up the floodgates. That is probably the better approach.

@ InoperativeRS- I like your idea for a stickied thread with links to all the official threads, they are hard to find via search once they've slipped off the front page, and I think we could allow for users to bump older official threads if they wanted to post in them.(Within reason)

@ Everyone responding on all sides of the poll type threads and character battles issue- I think that as long as we have things in place like a stickied 'official thread directory' in place to reward people for putting effort into their threads, it is probably ok to let poll type threads and character battles slide. My main concern with character battles, is that I don't want them to be a hit. My mind immediately imagines a worst case scenario in which they've became the most popular kind of thread on the GGD, it would effectively drown out any decent discussions... but then again if that happens, we can take action to nip it in the bud.

@ Wolfetan regarding the 'gaming pet' thread- It is always hard to make everyone happy with what stays and what goes. There are a lot of great posters like you that want to see those threads, and a lot of great posters that want to see those threads go away. What I'm hoping to accomplish with this thread is to get feedback from everyone here as to the direction they want the board to go in, and to find solutions that can make everyone happy, so I appreciate your feedback.:)

Let's try this again...

I think there should be a rule where people can verbally... hmmmm lost my train of thought.

Anyways I think Gamespot has a habit of asking questions they really don't care to fix and I see this as one of them. I mean I've seen topics before about memberships and what could be done to change them for the better and nothing was ever done with that about 4-5 years ago.

I think the main problem is GGD doesn't have an identity. It says we're supposed to have a discussion about games yet we can't really argue, a lot of comparison threads are locked, there are already game specific boards that people are always told to go to, all the new topics on this site have their own comments section associated with them...So there are plenty of game discussions, it's just that this forum/site has too many places to do it and most of them are more relevant than the GGD

One site I used to go to nixed the comments portion and would then have a "discuss this" link on the bottom of a topic where it would link straight to the topic in a message board. but that would call for gamespot to make a layout change for the better of the community and that won't happen.

If we're going to allow pole threads maybe there should be a "best of" sticky because i'm seeing the same things occuring as before. There was already another "best story" topic started the other day and the last one isn't past the 10th page. maybe a bunch of those topics should be linked in one sticky for easy referrence since the search function is next to useless.

In the end it's a good question but I think the mods have little power to change anything. the flaw runs deeper than that and this site seems to enjoy barely working for the community.

Hey rag, thanks for replying! I guess your right, the pet thread didnt relate to games all that much.

Although I do think it should be allowed, just make the lounge a bit more relaxed. Thats just my opinion.

I respectfully disagree on your opinion on character match-ups. We've had quite a few, very fun and productive Marvel match-up threads in OT.

None of the suggested changes are going to make a difference.

Way back when I was a relevant poster and a moderator, I pushed for the no-poll rule, and at one point, cracked down on over half of the posts on the front page of GGD because they weren't promoting any discussion, along with an explanation of why the thread was being locked. I pushed to crack down on poll-type threads in GGD, and it's one of the few things that I left as any kind of legacy during my time as a moderator on this site. But if it gets rescinded, then I tell you, it won't make any difference.

It's not about what you restrict, really, it's about the lack of contribution from the community.

The community here in GGD is remarkably passive. Major news stories and NPD numbers are posted, but I don't see a lot of regular posters bringing up issues. I can't remember the last time I saw one of the regular posters write up an entry about whether or not Heavy Rain's design principles could, or should catch on, or whether there was anything to videogame violence. Frankly, everybody here are interested in having a discussion, but nobody is interested in starting a discussion.

It's time to redefine what it means to be a moderator in General Games Discussion. Forget what to allow and not to allow; this board is tame enough that such is rarely an issue. Instead, it's time for the moderators to show leadership in what this board should be about--thoughtful members bringing up gaming topics to think upon and discuss. If the moderators lead by example, and encourage other members to follow their example, then this board will improve.

And if you think a word of what I said was untrue, I dare you to disagree. When then can have a thoughtful discussion. On why you are wrong. ;)

Way back when I was a relevant poster and a moderator, I pushed for the no-poll rule, and at one point, cracked down on over half of the posts on the front page of GGD because they weren't promoting any discussion, along with an explanation of why the thread was being locked. I pushed to crack down on poll-type threads in GGD, and it's one of the few things that I left as any kind of legacy during my time as a moderator on this site. But if it gets rescinded, then I tell you, it won't make any difference.Oilers99

Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually a big supporter of poll and list type threads. I think they are kinda boring threads, and they aren't something I typically post in. The problem is one that you bring up further down in your post. As a moderator, I'm less interested in policing the board than I am in just being a regular poster who is here to get rid of spammers and help people find the right board if they post something off topic. I'd much rather be making threads and participating in the board than opening up every thread that gets posted here and trying to determine whether or not it is substantive enough to start a discussion.

I think I said it earlier in the thread, but I think the GGD moderators(past and present), myself definitely included, control a little too much. In theory, I really like the no polls/list threads rule in the GGD. There are a few problems though. For one, none of the non-GGD moderators are familiar enough with the rule to enforce it at all, and for me, I don't like that the rule has enough gray area that it is hard to enforce with any degree of consistency.

I think that one of the ways we are going to get the GGD to be more active is to make it to where the rules are easier to follow because there are fewer of them. If someone's first experience on the GGD is to get their thread locked with a note from me saying "This thread doesn't do enough to start a discussion.", they typically will just find another board to post on. I think if our regulars were more active than they are, the lower quality threads that aren't producing substantial discussion will go away on their own without a thread lock.