In the end, the Mass Effect 'love scene' just wasn't worth it

Mass Effect is a great game that has been critically lauded for many things. It has sold VERY well for a new IP that is an RPG, and many gamers are enjoying it.

That being said, the game is still making headlines because of a tiny aspect of it that, ultimately, meant little-to-nothing in the scope, quality or enjoyment of the game. That being the love scene (I refuse to call it a sex scene for reasons that should be obvious to anyone that has seen it) that happens at almost the end of the game. I understand that the game makers were trying to add a level of sophistication to the game in doing it. I do understand that. But even they recognized the limits of what they should do by only showing butts (I'm still missing the whole side boob moment; maybe I was distracted by booty).

That being said, why even go that far? All it has done is brought out people that have exaggerated what is in the game and those in the know are not getting fair and balanced coverage. Did we honestly think they would? These media outlets don't have time to play a 30+ hour game and don't have time to search for sources that HAVE. Its easier for them to pull out the usual suspects that fall back on generalizations instead of hands-on research.

Personally, I wish that Bioware would've just left out the partial nudity and maybe even the whole love scene. It could've been implied and the same plot and story elements would've still worked. For the bad press that the game has gotten (particularly recently), it just wasn't worth it to me. It didn't add enough positive elements to the game to justify the negative press.

I think the game industry as a whole owes BioWare a round of applause, personally. I think they knew that they were going to take flak for that scene, but thought that it was worth including anyway, perhaps because they knew that they were making a mature game for mature people that was going to be rated M for Mature. People need to get knocked out of the sensibility that video games are exclusively for 13-year-olds. A tastefully done love scene might bring down a bit of controversy and may inspire the uninformed to protest, but in the end it opens up a bit more possibilities for games to follow in terms of what is acceptable in a mainstream, million-selling title.

Games like the Witcher are fine for what they are, but I think BioWare took it upon themselves as an industry leader to take a lump and attempt to tell the story that they wanted to tell, even if it did wind up being controversial. I mean, I'm 28; I don't want game developers to have to design games exclusively for teenagers. I'm a grownup, I can handle a little nudity now and again. Certainly the storyline for games like Mass Effect and KOTOR are told in very sophisticated ways; I don't see why the content should be bowdlerized just to avoid some random yahoo from getting upset. People can handle it, and in the end BioWare makes games for people who enjoy games, not for pundits who are going to find some reason to get upset no matter what happens.

I know where you are coming from but I disagree. It is a very small, insignificant part of the game and should be treated as such. We should try to change the perception people have of games instead of trying to make games fall in line with that perception. I think we should defend the game. Not because the love scene was integral to the game, but because it was so insignificant. People are way over reacting to this and they need to be made to see that. If we back off all we are telling them is that they are right. I won't do that.

And yeah. I don't remember seeing a boob either. But that also goes to show that it wasn't a big deal. The only people IMO who have a problem coping with it are these psychologists/critics who insist on taping the scene and replaying it in slow motion to see everything it shows. That behavior is a little creepy if you ask me.

Checking... Checking... ok this thread at least isn't labeled as an experiment.

Mass Effect was a pretty garunteed blockbuster with or without the scene in question.

Games experience a disproportionately harsh degree of censorship (de facto censorship since most US retailers won't carry AO games) relative to other art forms like cinema, television, books, and music.

Therefore I forward that Bioware decided to suck it up and try to push the boundries of what's acceptable in a blockbuster game title forward with their 'sex scene'. ESRB really needs a few good shoves and all it takes is one game that they try to blacklist that stomps ones they don't to undermine their credibility as a regulatory organization so they have to walk a fine line. The big developers can and should push at them until they reach the same level of regulation as other forms of media.

On an unrelated note, significant personal events like the 'sex scene' are critical for Bioware's ultimate goal of dynamic character development without railroading. They're really nowhere close to that goal but it's an obvious and deliberate progression towards it since the company was founded.

Yeah... I mean, if they're going to put in a scene that would attract the ire and scorn of the mainstream, arguably damaging the videogame industry, they could have at least put in some nudity worth watching. :?Funkyhamster

I don't think there is any pixelated nudity worth watching :P . I'm all for letting the developers have creativity, but umm. I'd rather keep the nudity out of my games. I am 20 and I personally don't think its needed.

I don't buy the argument that having sex in something contributes to making it more mature or that the story in Mass Effect is deep and complex, infact I would argue that sex and nudity (not sexuality) are more present in media in immature forms. By no means am I against sex in games, but just like violance, revenge, slavery and the like the inclusion of these does not make something automatically deep and "mature" nor should it be automatically praised by legions of fanboys.

I don't buy the argument that having sex in something contributes to making it more mature or that the story in Mass Effect is deep and complex, infact I would argue that sex and nudity (not sexuality) are more present in media in immature forms. By no means am I against sex in games, but just like violance, revenge, slavery and the like the inclusion of these does not make something automatically deep and "mature" nor should it be automatically praised by legions of fanboys.Nikalai_88

From what I've heard, the scene in Mass Effect isn't particularly immature.

Didn't PEGI give Mass Effect a 12+ rating?

Scenes like that do not add "maturity" to anything. They cheapen it by pretending that intimate moments like that are something to be stared at by an audience. It's not what the game was about, it was unnecessary, and it conforms to the new philosophy, that what appeals to little teenage boys, is somehow mature.Born_Lucky

You just described half of the movies ever made. :-)

As long as it's in context I'm fine with it. I don't like when it comes out of the blue. But in ME they were going into battle and they thought there was a good chance they wouldn't make it. I see that as kind of fitting. In an end of the world senario wouldn't you be looking for love and comfort? I know I would.

The game industry shouldn't babysafe itself to conform to the prejudices of some non-gamers. Bowing to predjudice is never worth it except in the extremely short term (to use an extreme analogy, while Rosa Parks and every black in America ultimately benefitted by her refusing to give up her seat, her life would have been easier that day if she had just stood up).

I applaud Mass Effect for not letting the hysteria/invincible ignorance of some non-gamers keep it in a box (the youtube sex scene I saw was extremely tame by the standards of other forms of media).

Any press is good press. That scene did them far more help than harm.

Plus, if conservatives are going to come after a game, I want them to pick a great game like Mass Effect, because it is crystal clear that it is a piece of art protected under our constitution.

Any press is good press. That scene did them far more help than harm.

Plus, if conservatives are going to come after a game, I want them to pick a great game like Mass Effect, because it is crystal clear that it is a piece of art protected under our constitution.

dchan01

Unless you're Roger Ebert.

It was worth it, more games need stuff like this. Are games supposed to never explore love in its most intimate way. Even if its not love, what sex can't be a subject. Its just stupid that games are not supposed to cross that boundary. dvader654

Lots of games cross that boundry, but it is not magically going to make the games deeper or better.

Checking... Checking... ok this thread at least isn't labeled as an experiment.

Uberbadassmufuh

For the record, I laughed at that.

[QUOTE="Uberbadassmufuh"]

Checking... Checking... ok this thread at least isn't labeled as an experiment.

Darth_Tigris

For the record, I laughed at that.

Always glad to be of service. :-)

OMG TEH NUDITY!

Honestly, I think that all this controversy is a product of Bioware's marketing machine.

Its just unbelievable to me that this scene has so many people up in arms. I know theres some insanely uptight people out there but COME ON! Its nothin more than a 2 second shot of a womans bare blue alien ass. Theres far worst in PG13 movies or on prime time television. Who didn't read the Emperor's New Clothes in the 1st grade?

Honestly, I think that all this controversy is a product of Bioware's marketing machine.

Its just unbelievable to me that this scene has so many people up in arms. I know theres some insanely uptight people out there but COME ON! Its nothin more than a 2 second shot of a womans bare blue alien ass. Theres far worst in PG13 movies or on prime time television. Who didn't read the Emperor's New Clothes in the 1st grade?

H3LLRaiseR

This Mass Effect "love scene" was publicized all over the net months before the game came out. I wonder how many bought this game or showed sudden interest in it just because of this?

I'm willing to bet it helped with sales.

[QUOTE="H3LLRaiseR"]

Honestly, I think that all this controversy is a product of Bioware's marketing machine.

Its just unbelievable to me that this scene has so many people up in arms. I know theres some insanely uptight people out there but COME ON! Its nothin more than a 2 second shot of a womans bare blue alien ass. Theres far worst in PG13 movies or on prime time television. Who didn't read the Emperor's New Clothes in the 1st grade?

PBSnipes

The scene itself in irrelevant. Its being hyped as if it does include full frontal nudity and sex minigames. On Fox News they called it "Star Wars meets Debbie does Dallas", someone else said that game was a "sodomy simulator". It doesn't matter whats actually there, its all about creating a perception.

Honestly, I think that all this controversy is a product of Bioware's marketing machine.

Its just unbelievable to me that this scene has so many people up in arms. I know theres some insanely uptight people out there but COME ON! Its nothin more than a 2 second shot of a womans bare blue alien ass. Theres far worst in PG13 movies or on prime time television. Who didn't read the Emperor's New Clothes in the 1st grade?

H3LLRaiseR

The media distorts and sensationalizes the news every day. I once attended a session of the English parliament which became front page news in all the major papers and the accounts given by two of the three newspapers were so distorted by their biases that reality was unrecognizable.

Bioware is nothing more than a victim of some reporters' and pundits' need to create attention grabbing stories which cater to the fears and biases of their audience.

[QUOTE="H3LLRaiseR"]

Honestly, I think that all this controversy is a product of Bioware's marketing machine.

Its just unbelievable to me that this scene has so many people up in arms. I know theres some insanely uptight people out there but COME ON! Its nothin more than a 2 second shot of a womans bare blue alien ass. Theres far worst in PG13 movies or on prime time television. Who didn't read the Emperor's New Clothes in the 1st grade?

CarnageHeart

The media distorts and sensationalizes the news every day. I once attended a session of the English parliament which became front page news in all the major papers and the accounts given by two of the three newspapers were so distorted by their biases that reality was unrecognizable.

Bioware is nothing more than a victim of some reporters' and pundits' need to create attention grabbing stories which cater to the fears and biases of their audience.

I am fully aware of how powerful the business influence is in modern news. Likewise, I'm also fully aware of the types of marketing tactics that companies will use to get people talking about their product. The hype train about this stupid little scene started long before the game was even released, and I can't help but think that it isn't just the media who is spinning it out of control. Obviously, we'll probably never know for sure.. its just a feeling I have.

Was it worth it in practical terms? Heck, no. Should the industry succumb to ignorance and pointless pressure and abandon the creative side of things? Heck, no.

Indulge my little argument below:

The best argument for sex in video games?

Ignoring the law, ignoring Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo not permitting AO games on their consoles, the argument for sex in video games in this thread is that the average age of gamers is ___, and M games are for adults. This ignores that minors have convincingly won the legal right to buy and play M games, and the fact that judges will treat sex quite differently than violence; judges will slide sex over to AO, which Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo knew when they banned AO games from their consoles. But that's another topic (why the three console makers don't want sex).

Why little to no sex in video games?

Sex is treated differently than violence in American law. Starting with the Iliad and Odyssey, children have been allowed to taste violence, through Grimm's Fairy Tales, cartoons, WWW Wrestling. All violent, but little to no sex. The lopsidedness of the violence and sex quotients in video games may be making us jaded toward violent video games. 2008 unlike 2007 promises of variety of video game experiences beyond the fps, but that's another topic.

Yet prodded by these threads, I took another look at the Iliad, especially the copy I own. On the cover are line drawings of spear and shield holding fat naked men. A famous philosophy professor said men rush naked to fight for their beliefs, and women's reaction to the film 300 shows women seem to agree. Opponents of sex in video games are laughable hypocrites. Why can't we have both violence and nakedness? The "monkey see violent video game monkey do something violent" argument doesn't seem to work.

So, we have increasingly lopsided quotients of sex and violence in video games. Nevertheless, we at GGD think we're right about sex in video games even if we rarely get it. But are we right?

1. Division of video games into games for kids and games for adults splits the one activity I know of in which kids and adults, of all races and countries, interact with such fun.

2. Violence is normally not permitted in society. An ER doctor may cut you open for surgery; you can set up self-defense scenarios, but that's tricky. Someone posted in of these sex threads, "Hey, guys, how about, I don't know, trying to have sex with a real woman?" Why not? Please don't say fear of AIDS.

3. The call of tasteful sex in video games. I don't see how legally you can permit tasteful sex but not untasteful sex in video games. If Snake is homosexual, and has to have sex with Raiden, if I talk about that at work and say it's wrong for Snake to tell Raiden, "Why can't I quit you?", I will be fired, so I don't see how you could prevent untasteful sex, whatever that means to you. If you say tasteful means legal, well, sex in video games will be treated differently than violence by judges, and we begin the vicious cycle of the three console makers not permitting sex on their consoles.

I hope I can be convinced otherwise.

The scene itself in irrelevant. Its being hyped as if it does include full frontal nudity and sex minigames. On Fox News they called it "Star Wars meets Debbie does Dallas", someone else said that game was a "sodomy simulator". It doesn't matter whats actually there, its all about creating a perception. H3LLRaiseR

[QUOTE="dvader654"]It was worth it, more games need stuff like this. Are games supposed to never explore love in its most intimate way. Even if its not love, what sex can't be a subject. Its just stupid that games are not supposed to cross that boundary. Nikalai_88

Lots of games cross that boundry, but it is not magically going to make the games deeper or better.

The sex scene in Mass Effect fits in perfectly IMO. I do agree with you that adding "mature" content won't make a game more mature per se but it's exactly games like Mass Effect that do use that content towards making the game more deep that ultimately can change the perception of games as an art form.

I thought it was worth it. It was a part of the overall story in that it was somewhat dependant on the player's interaction with the characters thereby bringing the player into the game's world more. It seemed like a perfectly plausible scenario to occur.