MS: Xbox needs to move away from its roots as a haven for hardcore gamers

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Peter Moore has been speaking of Microsoft's need to revamp its marketing strategies in a bid to widen the Xbox 360's target demographic. Leading analyst expects a price drop before Christmas.

3..... 2...... 1..... argue?

Oh, for the love of...

Anyway.

''  ``We are well aware that the sweet spot of the market is really 199 bucks,'' said Hufford. At $250 he labeled the Wii a ``strong value proposition, adding, "When mom walks into the store and sees she can get a console with a game for $250, she sees it as a $300 value. They've done a good job.'' ''

A mother? Why the hell does consoles (and games in general for that matter) need to be revamped into some cutesy ''family fun'' kiddie box? I understand the need to trying to appeal to a bigger market, but it will SO evidently make the real gamers suffer.


''Microsoft hopes to extend the reach of the Xbox 360 far beyond the 20 year old FPS fans''

Yeah, that's bull. If i've understood it correctly, he means that these FPS fans are the hardcores? These are just the kind of morons they've attracted by their earlier attempts at ''widening'' the market. (don't take me wrong, i don't consider all FPS fans idiots, but i've listened to way to many morons at the gamestore talking about wich game to get, the one with more blood or more skin showing. >.> )

Games like Viva pinata is a nice break in the constant showering of FPS (on all consoles/PC) but the thing is that we toning things down, making them cuter and taking out ''offensive'' material is not the way to go.
The way to go, would be to actually create games that actually can be ''adult'' games without the three B's.

But i'm going off-topic.

Profits and reason aside, microsoft needs to stay as this supposed ''hardcore haven'' before everything is lost, and before we know it, parents and kids are the more catered group than the gamers.

The price drop is six months overdue. As soon as they hit January and sales went back on par with the original Xbox, a hefty price drop should've been implemented, but they instead opted to release a more expensive sku. By comparison, they've almost gone as long as the PS2 did without a price drop, and they are nowhere near in the same ballpark the PS2 was - either in public perception or installed base. The key question here is whether anyone thinks Microsoft is really going to lower the price with Halo 3 hitting in a few months. I think they might, because I think they see the writing on the wall (even with Halo) this holiday season if they don't.

Microsoft has focused all their attention on Sony, when they really should've been worrying about Nintendo in the short-term. Microsoft was really in the driver's seat as far as price drops went, and the one thing they should've learned from Sony was that you drop the price prior to being forced to, so the momentum is sustained.

The price drop is six months overdue. As soon as they hit January and sales went back on par with the original Xbox, a hefty price drop should've been implemented, but they instead opted to release a more expensive sku. By comparison, they've almost gone as long as the PS2 did without a price drop, and they are nowhere near in the same ballpark the PS2 was - either in public perception or installed base. The key question here is whether anyone thinks Microsoft is really going to lower the price with Halo 3 hitting in a few months. I think they might, because I think they see the writing on the wall (even with Halo) this holiday season if they don't.

Microsoft has focused all their attention on Sony, when they really should've been worrying about Nintendo in the short-term. Microsoft was really in the driver's seat as far as price drops went, and the one thing they should've learned from Sony was that you drop the price prior to being forced to, so the momentum is sustained.

Shame-usBlackley

Peter Moore's grasp of the industry doesn't appear to be very strong.  The same marketers that oversaw the shrinkage of Nintendo's console marketshare the past three generations (MS's Xbox outsold the GC last generation) have overseen the Wii, so marketing cannot be the reason for the Wii's success.  However, despite Moore's overly powerful faith in marketing, MS seems to be doing all the right things softwarewise (everybody that made the Xbox great is still onboard and many of the developers that made the PS2 great have hopped onboard) to give the X360 broad appeal.  Their big screw-up has been in pricing. 

I also think MS's faith in Rare is misplaced.  Rare isn't the developer they were in their early days.  Rare's best game under MS was its last, and even Viva Pinata had some design flaws which kept it from appealing much to kids.  If MS is that serious about appealing to the 8-12 demographic, they might want to acquire another developer (or hope a third party comes out with something which fits the bill).

It's taking too long to get the price down, it's taking too long to get the family friendly games out. It's doable, but it would be quite hard for MS to lose their perception within this generation.trifecta_basic

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking, the 360 is simply a more powerful Xbox, whilst this is no bad thing it isn't going to suddenly attract non-Xbox gamers, if their intention was as such then they didn't make it clear from the outset.

What they fail to realise is that Nintendo's extended reach may come at a cost (ie more non/casual gamers), it's whether they are prepared to risk that or not.

You can see it's eating them up at the thought of N reaching an audience of 50-100 million, that's going to hurt alot, whether anyone cares to admit it or not, MS have worked their socks off to make the 360 the best experience possible, and there Nintendo goes and releases a machine that costs pennies to make and houses almost ZERO internal-hardware enhancements and yet it's (begun) selling like crazy.

If I were MS right now I'd be gutted, and from a business stand-point, quite embarrassed.

If widening the 360's target demographic means we'll soon see a pricedrop, then I'm all for it.

Widening demographics are always awesome... providing that not all 3 major consoles don't go for the "non-gamer" approach. That would alienate a relatively large sector of game buyers. 

Widening demographics are always awesome... providing that not all 3 major consoles don't go for the "non-gamer" approach. That would alienate a relatively large sector of game buyers. 

 

SemiMaster

If widening the 360's target demographic means we'll soon see a pricedrop, then I'm all for it.

 

UpInFlames

[QUOTE="SemiMaster"]

Widening demographics are always awesome... providing that not all 3 major consoles don't go for the "non-gamer" approach. That would alienate a relatively large sector of game buyers. 

 

The_Duke_Lives

Peter Moore's grasp of the industry doesn't appear to be very strong. The same marketers that oversaw the shrinkage of Nintendo's console marketshare the past three generations (MS's Xbox outsold the GC last generation) have overseen the Wii, so marketing cannot be the reason for the Wii's success. However, despite Moore's overly powerful faith in marketing, MS seems to be doing all the right things softwarewise (everybody that made the Xbox great is still onboard and many of the developers that made the PS2 great have hopped onboard) to give the X360 broad appeal. Their big screw-up has been in pricing.

I also think MS's faith in Rare is misplaced. Rare isn't the developer they were in their early days. Rare's best game under MS was its last, and even Viva Pinata had some design flaws which kept it from appealing much to kids. If MS is that serious about appealing to the 8-12 demographic, they might want to acquire another developer (or hope a third party comes out with something which fits the bill).

CarnageHeart

I think when it comes to a new product with a new concept the marketing department will and should make adjustments accordingly. I'm not saying that they have completely for this era but I can't quite accept the judgement fully that based on past performance they won't make any changes to address the mistakes they have made in the past. Also to say the marketing of the Wii hasn't been succesful to some extent makes me wonder then what the appeal of the Wii truly is.

Lastly, I always thought that the shrinkage of the Gamecube makretshare was due to lack of 3rd party games not because the marketing of the console went awry.

I'm positive that if Microsoft starts manufacturing 360s with 65nm chips, the demographic will widen greatly.toment

[QUOTE="toment"]I'm positive that if Microsoft starts manufacturing 360s with 65nm chips, the demographic will widen greatly.ymi_basic

[QUOTE="The_Duke_Lives"][QUOTE="SemiMaster"]

Widening demographics are always awesome... providing that not all 3 major consoles don't go for the "non-gamer" approach. That would alienate a relatively large sector of game buyers. 

 

GodModeEnabled

What? While I certainly think getting a good gaming PC is an excellent investment I don't really understand your negativity toward console gaming. I mean there are still the good old "hardcore" games that will be coming like Dead Rising 2, Gears of War 2, Resident Evil 5, Final Fantasy XIII, God of War 3, etc. I think this idea of the standard "hardcore" games fading away in light of these more "casual" games becoming popular is getting blown way out of proportion.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"][QUOTE="The_Duke_Lives"][QUOTE="SemiMaster"]

Widening demographics are always awesome... providing that not all 3 major consoles don't go for the "non-gamer" approach. That would alienate a relatively large sector of game buyers. 

 

Archangel3371

What? While I certainly think getting a good gaming PC is an excellent investment I don't really understand your negativity toward console gaming. I mean there are still the good old "hardcore" games that will be coming like Dead Rising 2, Gears of War 2, Resident Evil 5, Final Fantasy XIII, God of War 3, etc. I think this idea of the standard "hardcore" games fading away in light of these more "casual" games becoming popular is getting blown way out of proportion.

[QUOTE="Archangel3371"][QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"][QUOTE="The_Duke_Lives"][QUOTE="SemiMaster"]

Widening demographics are always awesome... providing that not all 3 major consoles don't go for the "non-gamer" approach. That would alienate a relatively large sector of game buyers.

 

GodModeEnabled

What? While I certainly think getting a good gaming PC is an excellent investment I don't really understand your negativity toward console gaming. I mean there are still the good old "hardcore" games that will be coming like Dead Rising 2, Gears of War 2, Resident Evil 5, Final Fantasy XIII, God of War 3, etc. I think this idea of the standard "hardcore" games fading away in light of these more "casual" games becoming popular is getting blown way out of proportion.

Personally I find PC gaming in a decline because unless you cram 1000$s of dollars into your machine to keep up with all of the latest technological advances, you don't get your money's worth and the games on the PC by far are "publish now, patch later". But that is not to say I am pleased with the state of gaming at least in terms of what the Wii is doing to it.

Hardcore gaming is really going to hell right now, and within the past generation, we've basically seen the phasing out of the Beatemup and the Shooter (no, not FPS or TPS) from any game line up unless its "Free" or "XBL or PSN" downloadable.

Microsoft or Sony, or both need to take a stand and not go soft on "OMG THE WII DID IT" and need to stand firm with what they are doing. Drop the price a little and I guarantee people will buy more of both systems. The Wii is fun, but it's just new and novel, people need to stop abandoning ship the second they see something selling.

Wait... well, network TV does that with "XXXX with the stars" or "Survivor variant #2435459".

Regardless, someone needs to NOT go with the crowd. Nintendo did, and it did pay off.. but when everyone tries to copy something else, where does that lead? Right back to the same stale place. 

The games are still coming, but for how long? An investment in the future is a wise decision at this point as by the time the next generation of consoles hits in 5 years it will likley be all focused towards casual gamers and games of the like. Whatever happens, happens but I want to be ready for it if/and when it becomes a reality the growing market shift is very disturbing.GodModeEnabled

You might as well wear one those big cardboard signs saying "The end of the hardcore is near".:P

I think what could possibly happen is that there will be an increase in games that are more targeted to the "casual" gamer in the future but I don't really think in no way will it cause a decline in games coming out for the more "involved" gamer. I think at some point a casual gamer will start turning into a more involved gamer. Much like how we all first started playing video games we wanted more intense experiences and grew into the supposed "hardcore" gamer. if anything we will see trends but nothing that will put a permanent stamp on how the industry will be. Fear not, my good friend... ;)

The games are still coming, but for how long? An investment in the future is a wise decision at this point as by the time the next generation of consoles hits in 5 years it will likley be all focused towards casual gamers and games of the like. Whatever happens, happens but I want to be ready for it if/and when it becomes a reality the growing market shift is very disturbing.GodModeEnabled

Well the games I mentioned plus many others the ones before that have all sold very well and now those games are very hotly anticipated so I would bet they too will sell quite well so I find it hard to imagine there won't be more of them or ones that will try to be like them after they hit. Like I said nothing wrong with investing in a good gaming PC, I'd like to do that myself, I just seriously doubt that this idea that there is going to this huge market shift towards these "casual" games with no or not enough "hardcore" games.

[QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

If widening the 360's target demographic means we'll soon see a pricedrop, then I'm all for it.

GodModeEnabled

I don't really think that's going to happen, but what does "casual" really mean? Casuals built the PlayStation, casuals made games such as Grand Theft Auto and The Sims a success. Gears of War and Rainbow Six: Vegas aren't "hardcore" - naval and tank sims, ultra-realistic strategy games based on 18th century warfare, insanely deep tactical first-person shooters...that's hardcore. Appealing to casuals doesn't necessarily mean churning out mini-game collections.

Yeah they definately need a pricecut. Kameo and Viva Pinata were both good games that had that "appeal to everyone" feeling. I definately don't want to see games catered to the "hardcore" shrink in anyway but I do think they need to get more games that are in the same vein as stuff like say a Ratchet and Clank kind of game. The new Banjo Kazooie will most likely be one that will fit that bill nicely but I think they need to get maybe another developer or two or three even that make those kinds of games.Archangel3371

See, and that's what is bothering me about Microsoft. They don't realize that the library comes as a result of the sales, not the other way around. Look at the PS2's first year on the market - the library wasn't all that varied, and it definitely wasn't designed for everybody. It was a very existing gamer-centric platform at that point. It wasn't until developers saw that the thing was going to lead the market that everybody and his brother started making games for it and the library began to have something for everyone.

Microsoft has squandered that chance here, because the public isn't buying at $400, and since they've waited so long to start appealing to the group who would buy at $300, there's now competition to contend with. Competition that is blowing their (and Sony's) doors off every month, in some cases combined. So now the developers go into a holding pattern - "Let's wait this out and let the dust settle," they say, because now it is the Wii that is showing the signs of being a market leader.

If Microsoft had played their cards right, they wouldn't need to buy developers who made casual and kid-friendly games. They'd all be making them for the system anyway.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"]The games are still coming, but for how long? An investment in the future is a wise decision at this point as by the time the next generation of consoles hits in 5 years it will likley be all focused towards casual gamers and games of the like. Whatever happens, happens but I want to be ready for it if/and when it becomes a reality the growing market shift is very disturbing.Archangel3371

Well the games I mentioned plus many others the ones before that have all sold very well and now those games are very hotly anticipated so I would bet they too will sell quite well so I find it hard to imagine there won't be more of them or ones that will try to be like them after they hit. Like I said nothing wrong with investing in a good gaming PC, I'd like to do that myself, I just seriously doubt that this idea that there is going to this huge market shift towards these "casual" games with no or not enough "hardcore" games.

It was never going to be long before developers realized they can sell more games on a far smaller budget if they just develop these casual games on the Wii that seem to be just as popular if not more popular.

As development for the "hardcore" platforms dwindles, it's no surprise that Microsoft and Sony are interested in following suit.

I wouldn't be surprised if 2007 is the last great 1998-esque year for the hardcore gamer, as we see focus shift towards Nintendo and the Wii's philosophy

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"][QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

If widening the 360's target demographic means we'll soon see a pricedrop, then I'm all for it.

UpInFlames

I don't really think that's going to happen, but what does "casual" really mean? Casuals built the PlayStation, casuals made games such as Grand Theft Auto and The Sims a success. Gears of War and Rainbow Six: Vegas aren't "hardcore" - naval and tank sims, ultra-realistic strategy games based on 18th century warfare, insanely deep tactical first-person shooters...that's hardcore. Appealing to casuals doesn't necessarily mean churning out mini-game collections.

True.

I just see it as more of the market expanding then anything else. I mean it's pretty much garaunteed that games like Gears of War 2, God of War 3, Grand Theft Auto 4, Halo 3, Starcraft 2, etc. are going to post big sales and provide plenty of income to both developers and publishers so I think it's a pretty safe bet that there will be more games in those series and games that will be like them in the foreseeable future for some time to come.

I wouldn't doubt it. We're seeing a lot of major studios like Ubisoft claiming they're going to try and put most of their efforts towards the Wii and this "non-gamer game" movement.

It was never going to be long before developers realized they can sell more games on a far smaller budget if they just develop these casual games on the Wii that seems to be so popular.

As development for the "hardcore" platforms dwindles, it's no surprise that Microsoft and Sony are interested in following suit.

I wouldn't be surprised if 2007 is the last great 1998-esque year for the hardcore gamer, as we see focus shift towards Nintendo and the Wii's philosophy

The_Duke_Lives

I really don't think that will be the case. Even if all the game developers decided to start making mini game collections it will oversaturate the market with one concept that won't be digested by consumers. Too much of anything is definitely bad for everyone and I don't think this doom and gloom that people are in fear of is really going to ever happen.

[QUOTE="The_Duke_Lives"]

I wouldn't doubt it. We're seeing a lot of major studios like Ubisoft claiming they're going to try and put most of their efforts towards the Wii and this "non-gamer game" movement.

It was never going to be long before developers realized they can sell more games on a far smaller budget if they just develop these casual games on the Wii that seems to be so popular.

As development for the "hardcore" platforms dwindles, it's no surprise that Microsoft and Sony are interested in following suit.

I wouldn't be surprised if 2007 is the last great 1998-esque year for the hardcore gamer, as we see focus shift towards Nintendo and the Wii's philosophy

juradai

I really don't think that will be the case. Even if all the game developers decided to start making mini game collections it will oversaturate the market with one concept that won't be digested by consumers. Too much of anything is definitely bad for everyone and I don't think this doom and gloom that people are in fear of is really going to ever happen.

[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]Yeah they definately need a pricecut. Kameo and Viva Pinata were both good games that had that "appeal to everyone" feeling. I definately don't want to see games catered to the "hardcore" shrink in anyway but I do think they need to get more games that are in the same vein as stuff like say a Ratchet and Clank kind of game. The new Banjo Kazooie will most likely be one that will fit that bill nicely but I think they need to get maybe another developer or two or three even that make those kinds of games.Shame-usBlackley

See, and that's what is bothering me about Microsoft. They don't realize that the library comes as a result of the sales, not the other way around. Look at the PS2's first year on the market - the library wasn't all that varied, and it definitely wasn't designed for everybody. It was a very existing gamer-centric platform at that point. It wasn't until developers saw that the thing was going to lead the market that everybody and his brother started making games for it and the library began to have something for everyone.

Microsoft has squandered that chance here, because the public isn't buying at $400, and since they've waited so long to start appealing to the group who would buy at $300, there's now competition to contend with. Competition that is blowing their (and Sony's) doors off every month, in some cases combined. So now the developers go into a holding pattern - "Let's wait this out and let the dust settle," they say, because now it is the Wii that is showing the signs of being a market leader.

If Microsoft had played their cards right, they wouldn't need to buy developers who made casual and kid-friendly games. They'd all be making them for the system anyway.

Yeah I know. The well of people willing to spend the money on the current asking price of the 360 is quickly running dry and starting to hit on empty. The games are definately hitting the system now and for the future so I say to MS quit waiting and wondering if the others will drop their prices and go ahead and drop the 360's price.

I also think they need to stop this notion of having developers having to charge some kind of price for in-game content and let them do their own thing and let them battle it out amongst each other and try to offer a better value for the consumer such as Epic wanting to provide their content free of charge. I personally think that getting a consumer to say to themselves that they can pick up a game and get a bunch of cool free stuff after the game sale is way better then having them say to themselves that they have to pay for the game then pay more ontop after for in-game content. A much better long-term strategy then simply going for the quick short-term cash-in.

[QUOTE="juradai"] 

I really don't think that will be the case. Even if all the game developers decided to start making mini game collections it will oversaturate the market with one concept that won't be digested by consumers. Too much of anything is definitely bad for everyone and I don't think this doom and gloom that people are in fear of is really going to ever happen.

The_Duke_Lives

I can understand why you would have that fear but I truly think it is unfounded. I think people are confusing growth of the video game market as a whole with shrinkage of a "hardcore" market. Casual gamers will eventually graduate to hardcore gamers and thus increase the demand for more indepth games. If the market expands as a whole then expect gaming variety to increase on a casual level and on a hardcore level. I see it as a win not a loss, good sir. ;) 

[QUOTE="The_Duke_Lives"][QUOTE="juradai"] 

I really don't think that will be the case. Even if all the game developers decided to start making mini game collections it will oversaturate the market with one concept that won't be digested by consumers. Too much of anything is definitely bad for everyone and I don't think this doom and gloom that people are in fear of is really going to ever happen.

juradai

I can understand why you would have that fear but I truly think it is unfounded. I think people are confusing growth of the video game market as a whole with shrinkage of a "hardcore" market. Casual gamers will eventually graduate to hardcore gamers and thus increase the demand for more indepth games. If the market expands as a whole then expect gaming variety to increase on a casual level and on a hardcore level. I see it as a win not a loss, good sir. ;) 

The announcements of studios like Ubisoft that they are switching focus is enough to make me see that producers are interested in smaller budgets and bigger profits than catering to the current gaming crowd. I do not care for this shift in demographic, personally, and I don't feel like waiting around and hoping these casuals "graduate" on up to the big leagues for some supposed cycle to ensue.

Before the Wii's popularity, gaming studios didn't have much of a choice but to cater to the existing gaming crowd. Now, theres a cheaper and more lucrative alternative for producers to sink their teeth into.

The irony is delicious. First PC gamers complained about the mainstreaming of their games on consoles. Now the more "hardcore" console players get to complain about the mainstreaming of their games on the Wii.

Ten years from now, will the Wii generation complain that their games are getting too mainstream? 

I don't think these casuals are going to "graduate" on up Mass Effect and the like. Theyr'e playing casual games because they don't have the desire to get into the long-winded, complicated genres. Miyamoto himself said that games need to become shorter and simpler. He never said anything about "graduating" these casuals on up and then increasingly making the Wii library more complicated and "hardcore" as the years go by. These casuals are going to stick to being casual. They just have a different way of life. It's why the same Madden comes out year after year rather than graduating on up to something more complicated and deeper.

The announcements of studios like Ubisoft that they are switching focus is enough to make me see that producers are interested in smaller budgets and bigger profits than catering to the current gaming crowd. I do not care for this shift in demographic, personally, and I don't feel like waiting around and hoping these casuals "graduate" on up to the big leagues for some supposed cycle to ensue.

The_Duke_Lives

Well even if they don't I don't think it will be a problem anyway. I believe there will always be people drawn into gaming from the standard or typical types of games, for lack of a better term, and there will always be people drawn into the business to make those games. Now with these new kinds of games becoming popular then it just attracts those who weren't interested in it before. Naturally though there will be some overlap between the two.

[QUOTE="juradai"][QUOTE="The_Duke_Lives"][QUOTE="juradai"]

I really don't think that will be the case. Even if all the game developers decided to start making mini game collections it will oversaturate the market with one concept that won't be digested by consumers. Too much of anything is definitely bad for everyone and I don't think this doom and gloom that people are in fear of is really going to ever happen.

The_Duke_Lives

I can understand why you would have that fear but I truly think it is unfounded. I think people are confusing growth of the video game market as a whole with shrinkage of a "hardcore" market. Casual gamers will eventually graduate to hardcore gamers and thus increase the demand for more indepth games. If the market expands as a whole then expect gaming variety to increase on a casual level and on a hardcore level. I see it as a win not a loss, good sir. ;)

The announcements of studios like Ubisoft that they are switching focus is enough to make me see that producers are interested in smaller budgets and bigger profits than catering to the current gaming crowd. I do not care for this shift in demographic, personally, and I don't feel like waiting around and hoping these casuals "graduate" on up to the big leagues for some supposed cycle to ensue.

Before the Wii's popularity, gaming studios didn't have much of a choice but to cater to the existing gaming crowd. Now, theres a cheaper and more lucrative alternative for producers to sink their teeth into.

So what?  MS and Sony obviously is not interested in them, so Nintendo's going to take the easy loot.  What you and others fail to realize is that the 360 would sell the same with or without the Wii's presence, the only difference is Nintendo is aiming at a much larger and untapped audience.

Finally, this isn't exclusive to Nintendo.  Once the PC gets the clear technical lead again it would be easier for a company to release a title to a console or at least make the console the lead SKU and streamline the game.  Want to know where this trend took off, it started when a platform that begins with X was launched. 

I just want to know one thing.  Who created the hardcore market that is suddently hating on other gamers?  I mean seriously.  Does this debacle never end.  No one told Microsoft, nor Sony for that matter, that they had to create thes super boxes to keep gaming going.  Gaming was going at a good pace for a long while now, and they think suddenlty they now represent a hardcore market that will only play games they provide?  Thats ludicrous and really shows the arrogance of these companies to just come up with more excusess as to why they are not doing as good as they though they would in a market structure like todays. 

They really need to think about why they are in the gaming market and not about what type of garbage tech or convergance plan they can push off on us to get a larger demographic (for which they have no contempt for anyway) to buy into down the road.  Who says the hardcore has a say so in what products last a long time anyway?  We are not quality arbetors.  Just say we are going to drop our price or don't say anything at all and quit feeding us the BS.

[QUOTE="The_Duke_Lives"][QUOTE="SemiMaster"]

Widening demographics are always awesome... providing that not all 3 major consoles don't go for the "non-gamer" approach. That would alienate a relatively large sector of game buyers.

 

GodModeEnabled

You too? I bought a new gaming pc because of the exact same reason. I have no problem with the Wii, it's great for parties and everything, but I really don't think it's a console that encourages developers to make truly great games. If this is the general direction console gaming is moving in I'll go back to my pc gaming roots, thank you very much.

Anybody that sees this as a bad thing is just LOOKING for something to complain about.

Starting in August, the 360 will have about a 7 or 8 month window of gaming the likes we have never seen. ALL of this is pretty much been directed at the Xbox faithful. They were satisfied customers last gen and MS wanted to get them back first. But now its time to move into the next phase, were the Core drops to $199 and games appealing to a wider demographic start to come into the limelight more and more.

Does that mean the Xbox faithful will lose out on 'their' types of games? Think about this for a moment: why would MS or 3rd party publishers STOP making games that appeal to the installed base that currently exist? Oh yeah, that's right. The only reason would be IF THEY WANT TO LOSE MONEY AND GO OUT OF BUSINESS.

But let's grow this a little bit. Since those games are coming, will sell solid numbers like they have throughout the life of the system and continue to do so, then what's next? Folks, you have to grow the market. Developers will be able to do more family friendly games on the 360 in ways that they CAN'T do them on the Wii. And they will be able to do this at a far more attractive price than the PS3 will for quite a while.

Why, WHY, WHY are you complaining about this strategy????????

If the Wii continues to sell as it is in relation to how the 360 and PS3 are selling, I see developers of traditional games developing more of those for the Wii--and they can develop for the Wiimote OR the Cla$$ic controller. Remember the PS1? How many main controllers did it have in its lifetime? THREE. The first had no sticks, the second was Sony's first attempt at dual analog, and the third was the close ancestor of the DualShock2--the original DualShock.

Another poster was right: too much of anything is bad. I think there's a saying, something like "Everything in moderation". That's as true of shallow games, family-friendly games,and mini-game compilations as it is for anything else. I think Nintendo's going to be the biggest seller of the latter type of game on the Wii, while almost everyone else's similar games will fall off the charts quickly. Someone posted or referenced stats that showed very few of those types of games being successful.

Unless those who currently develop traditional games can actually tolerate cranking out nontraditional stuff, I see traditional games staying in large numbers, even if the 360 and PS3 bomb in the end and the Wii is victorious. I mean, can you imagine Jaffe, Itagaki, or Kojima, for example, being happy producing nontraditional games? I don't. These guys are either dedicated to making traditional games, or are otherwise visionaries of a sort, and restricting their output to nontraditional games would only drive them away. No, they'll keep making traditional masterpieces, no matter the hardware.

I think that if the Wii is successful under that type of scenario, the system's successor will be powerful enough that developers will be happier producing games for it. All that needs to happen is that the tech for such a system become, price-wise, mainstream-friendly, so that Nintendo could sell it at a mainstream-friendly price like they're doing with the Wii.

What say you?

NOOOO! They actually went out and did it! They are going to only make mini-games!! *pounds hands in the ground* Its all over, gaming as we know it is over! Damn you Nintendo!!! Damn you all to hell!!!!

(And done.)

dvader654

*applauds*

Brilliant performance. I have seen some great ones but I must say you could be up for an award.

On a more serious note, I think if the industry doesn't grow then it will remain stagnant which is never good for anyone either.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"][QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

If widening the 360's target demographic means we'll soon see a pricedrop, then I'm all for it.

UpInFlames

I don't really think that's going to happen, but what does "casual" really mean? Casuals built the PlayStation, casuals made games such as Grand Theft Auto and The Sims a success. Gears of War and Rainbow Six: Vegas aren't "hardcore" - naval and tank sims, ultra-realistic strategy games based on 18th century warfare, insanely deep tactical first-person shooters...that's hardcore. Appealing to casuals doesn't necessarily mean churning out mini-game collections.

I think you've mistaken hardcore games, with hardcore consumers. Hardcore consumers are the ones playing the Halos, Warcrafts, and so on due to the time they put into the games, and they cause these types of games to be made.

My problem with this type of strategy is the self-fulfilling prophecy these guys create:

1) Decide the hardcore gaming audience is too small to pander to.
2) Change directions and create casual games
3) Hardcore gamers get fed up with the game selection and abandon the system or gaming altogether.
4) Microsoft shows data that the hardcore games they still do make are not selling like they once did, vindicating their whole shift in the first place.

If this movement causes hardcore gamers to give up their hobby and move onto something else, this could help perpetuate a cycle that kills gaminginnovation for a long time. Because in reality,hardcore gamers are the only ones salivating for new types of games that have never before been made.

Thoughts on my perspective? Anyone?

I'm so alone. :cry:

I think you've mistaken hardcore games, with hardcore consumers. Hardcore consumers are the ones playing the Halos, Warcrafts, and so on due to the time they put into the games, and they cause these types of games to be made.F1Lengend

I think the vast majority of people playing Halo and World of Warcraft are anything but hardcore. What seems to be the problem is people confusing casual gamers and non-gamers. Hardcore, casual, it doesn't matter - we're gamers, we play games. What Nintendo is doing is they're trying to get people who never played games. What Microsoft is trying to do is tap into the family-friendly market of already existing gamers.

Thoughts on my perspective? Anyone?

I'm so alone. :cry:

Angry_Beaver

It's hard to argue with someone when they're mostly right. There are a few points I'd like to nitpick though.

First of all, I don't see videogames being built exclusively for the cla$$ic controller ever being very common. What I do see becoming common is games that use the nunchuk and Wii-mote, and waggling the Wii-mote and nunchuk to act as additional button presses for traditional design. I'm of the opinion that most, not all, traditional designs can be made to work on that combo, just not as effectively as on a traditional controller, like the 360 pad or the cla$$ic controller. Which is why I also expect many of these traditional Wii games to offer a control scheme that works with the cla$$ic controller as well, like we're seeing with Brawl. For those of us that actually bother with spending ridiculous amounts of money on a Wii, that'll probably be the option we consistently go with.

Second of all, I think people are misunderstanding the Wii market due to these mini-game collections that everyone is so eager to put into the same category. They are mini-game collections because that is what the internal structure of the design demands. Rayman Raving Rabbids is about showing off crazy rabbit characters, Wario Ware is about unpredictable and lightning-speed gameplay, Wii Sports is about creating an entertaining gameplay prototype for a variety of sports, and Wii Play is about teaching new Wii players how to handle the Wii-mote. Those designs all lend themselves well to mini-games, and mini-games lend themselves well to exploring a new kind of control method. That they currently are a huge part of the Wii's line-up is merely a matter of them being much faster to produce. If you look back at the Wii's full introduction at E3 2006, the entirely line-up does not give the impression of being mini-game centric. It was merely what the show had that could be released quickly for the system. As the remainder of the 2007 line-up emerges, E3 2007 occurs and 2008 begins, I don't think mini-game collections will be much of an issue, much like what happened with the DS as it matured.

A price drop will significantly boost sales. And I may finally become a 360 owner.

But to be honest, I think Microsoft has already crossed the line of engraving themselves as a hardcore machine. C'mon,all they have is mature titles and shooters! That's their bread and butter. I know Peter Moore has good intentions but is it already too late to convince people who already have it in their minds what the XBOX stands for?

Also, Nintendo has had a reputation as a family-oriented system ever since they started the gaming business.Even if Microsoft goes all out promoting their system with family frosting all over their ads and their games, I'm willing to bet 10/10 moms, dads, or grandparents will walk into the store and still pick up a Nintendo product during the holidays.

Nintendo has too much history as a family-oriented entertainment system that has become part of everyones culture around the world...and they have Pokemon, whichthere's no way in a million years Microsoft will matchor have the same succes as a Pokemon franchise.

I think Microsoft will just waste more money if they invested in this type of casual/family-oriented marketing. I think they should stick to what works most effectivly for them which is being the bestplace to enjoy the best hardcore games out there.

Microsoft has Halo and now Gears of War....I think those two right there is just as significant to games as Mario and Pokemon.