My totally awesome list of totally awesome RPGs

The title says it all and I'm going to get started straight away:

No. 20 Mass Effect 3 (PS3/XB360/PC)

I looked forward to this series finale almost as much as I had looked forward to GTA V or MGS V. Mass Effect 3 ended up feeling a lot more like the latter than the former. Why? Well, it had all the required mechanics, the pieces were there but it lacked the heart and tight scripting of the series high point Mass Effect 2.

Having said that, it is still one of the best sci-fi RPGs ever made, plus it has a tight action system and a very clever use of weapon and ability upgrades which extend the action better than Mass Effect 2. The environments are just as intriguing and for about the first 10 hours or so, it really does feel as if the Galaxy is relying on you. If only the segments on Earth were better and there was increased emphasis on building your squad like the predecessor.

The positives still far out weigh the negatives and it edges out The Witcher 2 to start this list off.

@soul_starter:

Yeah I had great memories with Mass Effect games too. But that.....was a long time ago. Now I'm all on jrpg's. It's hard to go back to Western civilization these days.

@killered3: I feel like JRPGs have really, really fallen behind western RPGs in recent years, in everything from combat, to moral ambiguity, to story telling and technical ability. The peak of the JRPG was from the mid 90s to around the early 00s...as you'll see from my list lol

No. 19 Fable 2 (XB360)

The Fable series used to get a lot of press, some good, some bad...no that's a lie, a lot bad. Each game was hyped to the moon and then feelings soured upon release. Fable 2 however, for my money anyway, lived up to a lot of the hype. It wasn't as large and intuitive as promised and the world wasn't quite as interactive as Molyneux made it out to be but the script was as sharp as any, continuously funny and the combat seemed simple on the surface but could be inventive when you put real effort in.

The top it all off, the moral choices could physically change your character and I'm just a sucker for that. The aesthetics are some of the standout in the genre and the cartoony edge made some of the darker elements even more intriguing. Add to the the ability to work and create relationships and you do do get a deep world. Plus everything is wrapped in a package so charming that all these years later, it has stayed with me and I actually played through the whole game for a 3rd time last year.

@soul_starter:

I agree with the technical aspects of jrpg's. Wrpg's play better but not sure about the storytelling part. Jrpg's are the strongest for stories in my experience, they're just typically in a lighter, gentler tone. Wrpg's have immersion and better role-playing and jrpg's are usually more story and level grind oriented.

didn't play me3 because couldn't get into me2 (me1 > me2 by some distance imo) and didn't like f2 but intrigued to see what the next 18 are...

I loved ME2 for the way it made us care about the characters and how every main mission meant something because it was the only way you could build your team. I'm not someone who gets emotional but at the end of my playthrough when certain characters didn't make it, I was genuinely sad. Anyway, I'll leave that for my list bio.

@killered3: I will however say, that even now, JRPGs just look so damn good .I love that whole art style. I'm no expert but I guess it'd be manga?

Especially the era in which JRPGs reached their peak on the PS2, they looked gorgeous.

Not a fan of Bioware RPGs, so no love from me on that. But Fable (original) was definitely a good game. Only played the second game enough to know I preferred the original. Though the dog was awesome in F2.

Can't dislike your list yet though as you pointed out fair reasons for why you liked them, and that's "awesome"

Though you might have wanted to make your topic private while you did the whole list :)

@RSM-HQ: Private? What do you mean? (remember, I don't really post here that much lol)

Anyway, I wanted to post my list bit by bit so we could discuss the games on offer ,rather than just posting the whole list at once.

No.18 Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 (PC)

I was saddened recently to find that my digital copy of KOTOR II just wouldn't work on windows 10. I'm not sure if there's a fix but it means I haven't played through this game for almost 4 years. That's ok for now because the memories of my several playthroughs are still strong and KOTOR II has stood the test of time. First off, from a technical point of view, it still compares favourable to more advanced, modern RPGs. It looks ok and the world exploration is something you can delve into quite well following the opening 3-4 hours.

That's where things go a bit downhill for me...the opening segments of the game. It's essentially one fetch quest after another in a repetitive, in door environment with little to do. Games and especially RPGs have really evolved since then with more varied opening levels and more intriguing game play. KOTOR II in those first few hours feels every bit as old as it is. Having said all that, when the game gets going and you have your party and the action opens up, this really is one not just for Star Wars fans but for anyone who enjoys a good sci-fi game. Heck, from a story standpoint, it's the best Star Wars property (films, books, comics included) since Empire.

Great list so fare, having a hard time fathom 17 rpg games better than Kotor 2 though, but am definately looking forward to the rest of the list:)

I really like KOTOR 2 and I'm a massive RPG gamer so just making the top 20 is huge but for me personally, it lacks the heart, joy and outright inventiveness of some of the RPGs I'm about to rank, many of which are Japanese.

I liked the original Fable actually. I thought the later ones were let downs. its too bad the original Fable wasn't released as a more open world game instead of having so many little load screens everywhere... but i liked how quickly you could get through the game and could complete the game without getting too bored. It was fun having houses in every town and getting wives in them ahaha.

The original Fable was fun but far too small compared to where they went with Fable 2 but I liked both. Fable 3 was just a step too far in the wrong direction. It probably killed the series.

No. 17 Chrono Trigger (SNES/PS1)

'Trigger is a revolutionary moment in the RPG genre. It helped introduce many of the ideas we take for granted. Granted it wasn't the first game to use them but as far as the games I've played, it was the first game to combine so many factors that make modern RPGs what they are today: multiple endings, non-random battles (you can actually see the baddies on screen, a massive step for JRPGs at the time) and a combination of both main quests and side quests related to the actual plot of the game. The influence of this game can be felt across both cultural divides.

Now that's out the way, let's get down to the basics. This game is a blast to play and that's what matters most. Who cares about gaming revolutions if they're not fun? 'Triggers 2D graphics looked great back then and probably do so now and the map was varied, featuring different enemy types and a fun, intuitive battle system. I later learned it was taken from FF IV but hey, not everything has to be original. The game probably falters a little by modern standards where the world isn't large enough and everything feels a little...small. But hey, I re-played this about 5 or 6 years ago and had more fun with it then FF XIII and any number of modern JRPGs.

@soul_starter:

Out of all the jrpg's I've played, I just couldn't get into Chrono Trigger or Chrono Cross.

@killered3 How come you didn't like Trigger?

I agree about Cross, I couldn't get into it but at the time I was just coming through FF VIII and IX and they were at such a high level I felt that Cross was a step back.

@killered3: Understandable. Trigger starts off slow, but gets really good after a few hours. It really peaks when you're in prehistoric times. And only gets better onwards.

It's a slow starter, I feel Disgaea does the same in pacing and accessibility, and that's one of my favorite gaming series. It's either something you like or don't.

I would say that ME3 is a third person shooter with light RPG elements. However its kinda hard to define what is an RPG. People are role playing in GTA which is not an RPG.

@PETERAKO: ME3 may have lighter RPG elements than more RPGs but it is most definitely an RPG game, especially with the modern blue print of choices, conversations, various environments to explore and choosing a character back story and specific skills.

Not quite the traditional RPG that older Elder Scrolls games used to be for example, but an RPG none the less.

No. 16 Xenoblade Chronicles (Wii)

I bought a Wii many years after it had reached it's peak and was expecting a lot from it's premier RPG, Monolith Soft's Xenoblade. This game hit just about every expectation, a vast world to explore, a genuinely interesting combat system, traditional RPG development systems and a "proper" game that works with the Wiis unique controls. I guess this is what Nintendo must have felt like it's peak 25 years ago when some of the best JRPGs around were released across the NES and SNES.

I mentioned the combat system and I'd like to bring up the aggro system which is just wonderful and cheeky and inventive. Which ever character performs the most actions, in a battle, ends up with an ever growing ring around them. The bigger the ring, the more the enemy decides to attack them. As that happens, you can use your characters with smaller aggro rings to attack the baddie...who won't be paying much attention to them. It's such a fun system, where you can almost trick the enemy AI into looking away from your real threats. And you can use some of your characters as bait which is always hilarious.

My only real issue with the game was that it looked like something from a bygone era. I know that's due to the Wiis lack of power but it also lacked the art design of PS2 era JRPGs. But hey, who cares when I was having that much fun.

@soul_starter: Mass Effect 3 doesn't belong anywhere near a top 20 list, especially not edging out The Witcher 2. Absolutely awful level design, writing, animations, and graphics compared to Mass Effect 2.

@soul_starter:

I dunno what it was exactly but I just wasn't digging the atmosphere of Chrono Trigger. Just something about it felt blehhh....

@scoots9:

The writing and level design was just as good in Mass Effect 3 as 2. You can say what you want about hating it but don't go making up flaws that don't exist. Alot of people hated the ending which did feel a bit weird at first but it's an exaggeration to say it destroys the game altogether. And I know too many people thought that way.

@soul_starter: ahm mister can you tell me the plot of this game?...

@trumpetsgo which game?

@scoots9 Why was the writing bad? It was a very well told story which did fall flat at times as do most games. The level design and much of the mission structure was similar to ME2, so that complaint doesn't make sense. In terms of TW2, I Can completely understand someone having it in their top 20 but for me, it didn't cut it.

@killered3 You know what, I get you. There are certain games for me that I just can't get into, even though they may be acclaimed.

No. 15 The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (PC)

This was the first game in the TES series that I ever played and the medievil-esque world and grand scale. From the opening level to it's climax, Oblivion is a game that understands pacing and the use of action in an RPG. A lot of the skills are aimed at combat and this series never really makes any compromises when it comes to combat. It's all first person hacking and slashing. That is a great thing.

That's not to say other elements of the game aren't important and the story is probably the best in the series. Graphically, it was just great to look at at the time, even if the animation was stiff. Traversing the world was just as enjoyable as the Fallout series. There's always an objective to be completed but there is a lot to be distracted by. Well made scenario, new locations and varied side quests.

Warning: For anyone looking to play oblivion today, it may seem a bit...old fashioned, where Skyrim updated many of the systems on offer and expanded the scale of the enemies. That's not to say you shouldn't play it but you may not have the same experience as I did when playing it for the first time.

No. 14 Final Fantasy IX (PS1)

I feel Final Fantasy hit it's absolute peak from PS1 to PS2 and the one game that often gets overshadowed by VII and even VIII and XII is this classic, the last entry in the PS1 FF record book. In my opinion, it's one of the most charming JRPGs ever made. The graphics don't hold up so well but the art style is cutesy but still effective. It's one of the few FF games or JRPGs in general that walk that tight rope between silly and serious with excellence.

The battle system is familiar to anyone who has played FF games, battle screen, pick your poison, off you go. It's simple and intuitive although I prefer what they did in FFXII with real time enemies and battles. However, there are a few quirks that are unique to this title, including changes in the save game feature and a more class oriented character progression. For SEs last game on the system, they really did take more than a few risks.

No. 13 Diablo II (PC)

This was a tough pick for me. I absolutely loved Diablo II on release and still love it to this day, although the Diablo legacy has been really hurt by what I feel is an almost atrocious cash-in of the sequel. But that's not why I almost didn't rank this. Diablo II is a hack and slash adventure with more combat and loot collection than actual RPGing...then again, some may think games like Fallout suffer the same issues. So here I am ranking it, and ranking it above the bottom 5. This is purely based on just how damn addictive the game is/was.

Still to this day, with technically superior hack and slash, loot collection simulators on the market, nothing quite captures the intensity and atmosphere of one of the best sequels ever made. The dungeon progression, the grind, all that loot I keep mentioning, the monsters to fight, it's all been done before and since but never to this level of perfection. Heck, me and my friends from secondary (high for you Americans) school would sit together after a play through and talk for hours about what we'd done, what we'd found, what attacks we had used on which creature(s). Other than the GTA series, I'm not sure if we've ever spent so much time speaking about one game.

No. 12 Vagrant Story (PS1)

First off, this game just looked so damn good. It's style was sharp and...cool. That's what I first thought when I stuck the disc in my now ageing PS1. Then I started getting deeper into the battle system and it wasn't your typical, JRPG, turn based fighting. No, you moved and attacked, targeting specific body parts and trying to chain together combos. That's right, this was like a beat 'em up in RPG form. That's what my 12 year old head thought anyway. Again, it was cool.

Story wise, I feel the game lacks a bit but it makes up for it tremendous atmosphere, the fun of the combat system and the look. It's also one of the few games where I probably spent hours simply crafting and improving the weapons I had. I'm not much of a crafter, maybe it's because I don't have the patience these days but back then I couldn't stop looking to get that extra range from my weapon or improving the strength that little bit more. Anything to chain more combos and deal more damage.

I feel a lot of RPGs at the time focused more on story and setting and then thought about combat, Vagrant is different. It uses combat as its center piece and it works perfectly.

@soul_starter: Chrono Trigger battle system wasn't taken from Final Fantasy 4. Sure there are similarities but Chrono Trigger gives its own spin on things and is much more enjoyable than almost all Final Fantasy battle systems. Highlight is the combination attacks and how effective they were.

Chrono Trigger is probably the only JRPG to make my top 10.

I have the exact opposite opinion than you about Oblivion. I found it a huge disappointment after Morrowind. I have a lot of complaints about it but since you mentioned it, the story doesn't hold a candle to Morrowind. Even Daggerfall was more involved than demon evasion on a fantasy land. Speaking of Daggerfall, you did venture in Oblivion during the ending of the game and it was interesting and weird and when Oblivion was announced I couldn't wait to see more of that. What did we get instead? Hell, hell and more hell.

Skyrim did several things better, several things worse. Honestly I can't say which is the worse of the two. Still not bad games but not great either.

I have to say I like this thread, it's a nice conversation starter about some great RPGs. About the others you mentioned I've either not played them or don't have anything to comment.

@pug987: Thanks.

I get that, a lot of people prefer some of the older TES games to the ones that came after Morrowind and that's cool. It's all opinions after all. Personally, Oblivion was a revelation to me and Skyrim is one of the best RPGs of the modern age. It'll be on my list but I won't say where.

In terms of Trigger, I never said it was the same system as FF4, at least I don't think I did lol But I agree, the battle system in Trigger is better than certain FF games but I prefer IX and XII over trigger in terms of combat...but just a bit. If you had to ask me, I/d probably say Vagrant Story had the absolute best combat for any JRPG, although I haven't played that game in a very long time but just the ability to target specific parts and the fact that it was one of the first main stream JRPGs to really push for a more fluid fight system was great and revolutionary.

If you haven't played nay of the other games I've mentioned, definitely get into Diablo II, it's the most modern and accessible. It can get seriously hard though.

I assumed from the syntax that you were referring to the battle system but seems I was mistaken.

I have played Diablo 2 and I enjoyed it, although I prefer some of its clones to the game itself.

@pug987: I get that, Diablo II produces so many pretenders that some of them actually turned out to be very good. I quite like Path of Exile too but haven't played it as much as I'd like. Maybe give that a try as a Diablo-esque game.

@soul_starter: I have played several action RPGs in the vein of Diablo 2. The three most important ones right now are Diablo 3, Path of Exile and Grim Dawn. I haven't played Diablo 3 yet (I plan to at some points) but the other two are great. It's just that they are the kind of games that require experimentation, reading up, strategizing and overall commitment if you want to experience them in higher difficulties. I prefer to finish a game and move to the next one, due to limited time and a large backlog.

Some recent diablo style action RPGs that were more my cap of tea were The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing and Victor Vran.

Van Helsing had a great first chapter (there are 3 in total, all released now). The next two were ok but not as good. All in all it's a fun game. Note, however, that it's much more technically demanding than the visuals would suggest.

Victor Vran is more of a mix between Bastion and Diablo. It is very fun and controls great with a gamepad. It doesn't have the same depth as others of its kind but the battles are more active and fluid.

I'll just mention one more, an older game that is somewhat of a hidden gem. Kult: Heretic Kingdoms is one of my favorite games in the category. It has a better story than most and it has interesting mechanics. You can move between the physical and spirit world with monsters being in either one or the other (and very few in both) offering quite a bit of tactics on how you can fight them. In addition it has a system where you learn skills by using items, kinda like Final Fantasy 9, and then you can combine these skills. They synergize into powerful combos.

I heard about Kult, so I'll give it a go. Probably check for it on steam.

I agree about the time needed to be invested in Diablo II or Diablo like games, which is what I used to love about them. Sadly I don't have that level of commitment to games anymore. It's why I played Diablo II when I did.

In terms of it's sequel, I played it upon originally release and it was an absolute mess.

I'm going to post all the way up to 5 now but I will add in the write ups a little bit later:

No. 11 Final Fantasy VII (PS1)

No. 10 Planescape: Torment (PC)

No. 9 Deus Ex (PC)

No. 8 Baldur's Gate 2 (PC)

No. 7 Final Fantasy VIII (PS1)

No. 6 Rogue Galaxy (PS2)

@killered3: yeah I find this to be true and enjoy a lot more JRPG because of that. Another difference is : in most WRPG you play only one caracter in first person to be more "immersive" while JRPG you control a groupe of caracters and I think it is a cultural thing ... In Japan they are more groupe oriented in their lives as of here in America we are individualist

@soul_starter: Final Fantasy IX wasn't that big of a stretch from previous FF ... each caracter had a class of their own making them trully unique and it was the same in FFVI, IV, III, II and I.

@Coco_pierrot: It was a move away from FF VII and VIII and was the first FF game I played to bring back a solid class system. The games you mentioned were many years before IX.

@Coco_pierrot: I don't know how this is true. All the Mass Effect games required you to have a team, in fact ME2 was all about building your team and the relationships within it. It was far more character/squad focused than just about every and any JRPG out there. In the FO games you can choose to have a companion with you at almost every point in the game.

@soul_starter: Sure but VII and VIII are the departure from traditionnal FF. Even X had somekind of unique class for each caracter.

@soul_starter: Fallout 3/4/NV, Elder Scroll, Diablo, Witchers, Borderlands and some people add Deus Ex which are all in first person view.

The only JRPG that isn't team based with a turn based battle system are what Fromsoft makes ( Bloodborne, Demon Souls, Dark Souls ).

@Coco_pierrot: So what has being in first person got to do with a team dynamic? Plus you can play them all, except Deus Ex, in 3rd person.

And Diablo is not first person.

@soul_starter: Yeah Diablo is my bad. But the thing is, WRPG have that mentality that you are the hero, you make your avatar and live the hero thingy and there is no better way than in first person view. In a WRPG, you play either alone being the hero or if there is online part then yeah a team that you don't control. More often than not created on the basics of Dongeon and Dragons.

JRPG on the other hand is more often than not team based like all the Final Fantasy, Chronos Cross/Trigger, Wild Arms, Vagrant Story, Persona, Shin Megami Tensei, Tales Of..., you have that big story of epic proportion and all battles are made in a way you have to control your whole team.

@Coco_pierrot: I get the gist of what you're saying but there are a lot of party based western RPGs. The first in the genre, like Wizardry, were party based, even though party members didn't have any personalities. It wasn't much different for some of the first JRPGS, like Final Fantasy 1.

Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment and other RPGs of the late 90s - early 00s had very memorable party members. Sure there are a lot of WRPGs where you play alone but that's not the established norm. You get like half and half. I'm playing Diablo 3 right now and I was pleasantly surprised to find that in a game genre where you are usually alone, a lot of care went to both companion and crafter personalities with a lof of dialogue for each and interesting backstories.

@Coco_pierrot: You don't seem to be reading anything I'm typing here or you're just willfully ignoring it lol I've just given you examples of how the games you mentioned are not just about you being on your own. And you totally ignored that, what's up with that?

You then keep mentioning first person but those same games and many, many other western rpgs can be played in 3rd person. I don't even see the issue.

If you really wanted to comment on the differences between the two types of RPGs, then you should have mentioned the more whimsical nature of the story and characters in JRPG, the usually turn based combat and less "open" world maps.

No. 5Dragon Quest VIII (PS2)

This was the first and still to this day, only Dragon Quest game I ever played and I instantly fell in love with it. That might sound very cheesy but the look, the characters, the design, the story was all so well done, at the time it genuinely looked like a Japanese animated movie and there was a sense of...how can I say this, innocence would probably be the best word. I hadn't felt that in a game since Mario 64.

However, hiding under all that shine is a very tight game. The world is filled with adventure, there's the usual towns to explore and characters to meet and to me, they seem better written than most. The battle system itself, while not reinventing the wheel, is functional and fun. I always found the switch between 1st and 3rd person during battles a bit odd but you get use to it pretty quickly.

Ultimately, this is an RPGs, RPG and what I mean by that is that it takes the best elements of Chrono and FF and tunes it up, refines, rebuilds if need be and presents it better than almost any other RPG on the PS2. The best part? It still holds up today.

I know you are probably younger but no Ultima in this list? I know it's not a best list and just totally awesome list but Ultima was totally awesome. Still is probably although haven't played it in years. Particularly the black gate and IV. Those games are so good.