New Reports says MS knew about 360 defects before launch

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169798

The report (which Takahashi calls "unauthorized" but assures is well researched and several years in the making) paints an overall picture of Microsoft rushing through the Xbox 360's initial design and manufacturing, without heeding warning signs that the hardware was suffering from potentially serious defects. "It turned out in the end that this was all going too far, too fast," says one anonymous source about the 360's design process. "They were adding too many features after things were locked down. That incremental feature adding just made it fragile." The report claims (although Microsoft refused to confirm these figures) that as Microsoft went into full production in August of 2005, they had a staggeringly high 68 percent defect rate -- that is, for every 100 Xbox 360s they manufactured, 68 were duds.

But the more interesting point raised in the report is that Microsoft's gamble to continue toward launch (expecting the hardware issues would quickly work themselves out over time) has apparently kept them from pricing the Xbox 360 where they originally wanted it to be at this point in its lifecycle. "The quality problem negated much of the advantage of going first, and it has delayed the company's plan to aggressively market the console and slash its prices," Takahashi writes. "That has stopped the company from reaching the broader market of consumers that Nintendo has won over. It has lowered its ambitions, hoping instead just to get a clear edge on third-placed Sony. The future profits that the company once hoped for are now likely to wind up in Nintendo's pockets."

But Robbie Bach, current president of Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices division, maintains that being first to market was the right decision. "If you take the question of whether it was the right thing to try to be first, the answer to that is definitely yes," Bach says in the report. "It has given us a leg up in a number of places that are super important. It has given us a leg up with game developers. It has given us a leg up from an economics perspective. It helped us expand Xbox Live quickly. At a strategy level, if you asked if we wanted to be first again, I would say yes. It's easy for me to go back and say, if I knew what would transpire over the next two years, would I go back and do something different, I think that's an obvious answer. But the fact is, based on the data we had at the time and all the hard work we put into it, there was no way to see what actually happened."

It's an interesting statement, in that Bach is saying they made the right decision, and yet he also admits they would have done things differently knowing what they know now. And what Microsoft knows now is that whatever intangible gains the defects may have cost them in keeping them from cutting their prices more aggressively, the defects did cost them a very tangible $1.15 billion dollars as a result of extending warranties for the RROD problem in July 2007. "Would I like the billion dollars back? Of course, the answer is yes. But there is still plenty of economics in the business for us to be successful," Bach says.

kind of old by now, don't mean to be an ass, but gamespot already broke this news like a week ago...And we've been talking about this in the MS price drop thread for like a week now also. HiResDes

Ah well. Saw it at 1up today posted as new.

It's 1up's fault not mine!!!:twisted:

[QUOTE="HiResDes"]kind of old by now, don't mean to be an ass, but gamespot already broke this news like a week ago...And we've been talking about this in the MS price drop thread for like a week now also. ASK_Story

Ah well. Saw it at 1up today posted as new.

It's 1up's fault not mine!!!:twisted:

Actually now that I think about it, this does deserve its own thread really...Though I don't really have an comment to offer besides that of disgust:

Thank the holy heavens that I wasn't an early adopter of MS's shoddy hardware.

Jasper FTW!

Welcome to the wonderful world of consumer electronics. It's all the same made in China/Malaysia/Thailand crap. Nintendo and Sony wrote the book on this business model long before Microsoft got in the game. They've provided the blue print for success, why wouldn't MS follow it? Same as any electronics maker. It's all about marketshare, quality control be damned.

I'm not sure why the report brought Nintendo into the discussion, considering that Nintendo and Microsoft aren't even competitors, at least not in a conventional sense.

Welcome to the wonderful world of consumer electronics. It's all the same made in China/Malaysia/Thailand crap. Nintendo and Sony wrote the book on this business model long before Microsoft got in the game. They've provided the blue print for success, why wouldn't MS follow it? Same as any electroics maker. It's all about marketshare, quality control be damned.

I'm not sure why the report brought Nintendo into the discussion, considering that Nintendo and Microsoft aren't even competitors, at least not in a conventional sense.

MarcusAntonius

Pretty much agreed.

What incentive is there to put out quality when the 32 and 128 era rewarded the most unreliable hardware? I'm not writing Microsoft a pass here, because they DO suck for putting out glitchy hardware knowingly. Sony's just as bad is what I'm saying.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Welcome to the wonderful world of consumer electronics. It's all the same made in China/Malaysia/Thailand crap. Nintendo and Sony wrote the book on this business model long before Microsoft got in the game. They've provided the blue print for success, why wouldn't MS follow it? Same as any electroics maker. It's all about marketshare, quality control be damned.

I'm not sure why the report brought Nintendo into the discussion, considering that Nintendo and Microsoft aren't even competitors, at least not in a conventional sense.

Shame-usBlackley

Pretty much agreed.

What incentive is there to put out quality when the 32 and 128 era rewarded the most unreliable hardware? I'm not writing Microsoft a pass here, because they DO suck for putting out glitchy hardware knowingly. Sony's just as bad is what I'm saying.

@Marcus - If that were true why is the X360 the only current gen system suffering from a high rate of failure?

@Shamus - How can Sony be just as bad if their inexcusable behaviour is in the past? Isn't a reformed thief preferable to a current thief?

As for the notion that no one has paid a price for releasing unreliable hardware, that is unknowable. Being the bestselling system of one's generation doesn't mean one couldn't have sold better.

Thank the holy heavens that I wasn't an early adopter of MS's shoddy hardware.

Jasper FTW!

BladesOfAthena

Too bad I was. Now I know to wait at least three years for MS to iron the bugs out of the next piece of garbage it rushes to market.

What incentive is there to put out quality when the 32 and 128 era rewarded the most unreliable hardware? I'm not writing Microsoft a pass here, because they DO suck for putting out glitchy hardware knowingly. Sony's just as bad is what I'm saying.

Shame-usBlackley

Too bad I was. Now I know to wait at least three years for MS to iron the bugs out of the next piece of garbage it rushes to market.

CarnageHeart

I'm sorry that you had to undergo such a misfortune. I can't tell you the countless number of times I've seen people at Best Buy returning their faulty X360's at the customer service desk with expressions of aggravation on their faces. I couldn't help but sympathize with their plight.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

What incentive is there to put out quality when the 32 and 128 era rewarded the most unreliable hardware? I'm not writing Microsoft a pass here, because they DO suck for putting out glitchy hardware knowingly. Sony's just as bad is what I'm saying.

Kunlun

Yeah, you've nailed me. Aside from the fact that I've owned every goddamn Sony system and, prior to this gen, used them as pretty much my sole source of gaming.

Bottom line is: I've still replaced more Sony hardware than Microsoft (3 PS2's, 2 PS1's vs. 3 360's). You ask how they can be just as bad, and there's your answer, Nancy. Sony has a storied history of console failures if you'd care to look them up. But then again, I've never been able to reason much with anyone who had pathetic system banners in their sig space, regardless of which platform they're pimping.

A1 BOLD

Soothsayerr

Hell, with being a wet blanket, change your font for God's sake. It's annoying.

[QUOTE="Soothsayerr"]

What is talking about it going to change or tell us what we don't already know? Your just dwelling on a problem you have no effect over. Not even as a few consumers. Because most don't scan forums for anything other then porn.... Which reminds me!

The only thing we can hope comes from all this, is that more people are now aware of M$'s evil ways. So if anything, just spread the word! To anyone and everyone who hasen't already read the article. Since we all know M$ isn't going to hook us up with some sort of gift or treaty.

Sorry to be a wet blanket again.... M$ just brings it out of me and Lethal Weapon is on. Those guys know how to get things done. Those 80's explosions get me going. :shock: Should send Riggs and Roger over to Microsoft's headquarters for some answers.

Shame-usBlackley

Hell, with being a wet blanket, change your font for God's sake. It's annoying.

it's apparently his browser which switches to the bigger font after he clicks submit or something. But still, he needs to fix it because I cant read that.

TBH this isn't suprising looking at all of the facts. I was actually speculating this long before by just taking into account the defect rate being absolutely ridiculous.

It's really sad that the corrupt ways of the tech industry and really all industries in general dealing with public traded companies (with them being at immense pressure from investors 24/7; it's pretty much when a eithical business founded on much philosophy turns into a tryannical money maker) has seeped into the gaming world. But I guess that's the price with gaming being bigger than ever. In the end, I know it's gonna sounds cliche but we are only ones who can fix these problems by raising our collective voice.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

What incentive is there to put out quality when the 32 and 128 era rewarded the most unreliable hardware? I'm not writing Microsoft a pass here, because they DO suck for putting out glitchy hardware knowingly. Sony's just as bad is what I'm saying.

Kunlun

No need to resort to name calling. We do not tolerate that here. Go to System Wars for that.

Yeah, you've nailed me. Aside from the fact that I've owned every goddamn Sony system and, prior to this gen, used them as pretty much my sole source of gaming.

Bottom line is: I've still replaced more Sony hardware than Microsoft (3 PS2's, 2 PS1's vs. 3 360's). You ask how they can be just as bad, and there's your answer, Nancy. Sony has a storied history of console failures if you'd care to look them up. But then again, I've never been able to reason much with anyone who had pathetic system banners in their sig space, regardless of which platform they're pimping.

Shame-usBlackley

No need to resort to name calling. We do not tolerate that here. Go to System Wars for that.

S0lidSnake

[QUOTE="Kunlun"][QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

What incentive is there to put out quality when the 32 and 128 era rewarded the most unreliable hardware? I'm not writing Microsoft a pass here, because they DO suck for putting out glitchy hardware knowingly. Sony's just as bad is what I'm saying.

Shame-usBlackley

Yeah, you've nailed me. Aside from the fact that I've owned every goddamn Sony system and, prior to this gen, used them as pretty much my sole source of gaming.

Bottom line is: I've still replaced more Sony hardware than Microsoft (3 PS2's, 2 PS1's vs. 3 360's). You ask how they can be just as bad, and there's your answer, Nancy. Sony has a storied history of console failures if you'd care to look them up. But then again, I've never been able to reason much with anyone who had pathetic system banners in their sig space, regardless of which platform they're pimping.

I was just thinking that this report will probably inspire a class action lawsuit against MS. Sure, MS has taken full responsibility and offered to replace faulty units free of charge, but now that people know MS knew about it BEFORE they launched, I am sure disgruntled consumers who had to buy multiple units might want their money back for the first broken unit.

You bought four units, right? So let's say when your third unit went RROD, you probably got it fixed by MS for free but what about the first two units? I am sure even if MS offered to fix them, no one likes to have three 360s sitting there in their living room.

You can own whatever system you want. It doesn't take away from the fact that you openly heavily support one system over another. Giving the Xbox 360 great praise and bashing Sony and their products. Your experiences do not equal the experiences of the vast majority. Really, take off the 360 lover boy goggles and take a look at the big picture. Numbers show that the Xbox 360 has a higher failure rate for people around the world than any other console on the market right now. That is the experience of millions of people (remember you are not the only person on the earth that owns video game consoles). Also, judging anyone from what they display as their forum signature isn't exactly being a man of "reason". Kunlun

I've been pleased with the 360, but that's what happens when you have a solid library. I was pleased with my PS2l, in spite of it breaking as well. That didn't mean that I liked that it broke any more than I liked my 360 breaking.

I'm not disputing the fact that the 360 has an extremely high failure rate. I'm saying that both are cut from the same cloth, and both have had massive problems with reliability. This is fact, not opinion.

What exact numbers would you be quoting in reference to 360 failures? And what PS2 numbers are you comparing them to? There are no numbers that can quantified as hard fact. What IS fact is that they (the PS2 and 360) both had SO MANY systems fail that one got sued for it, and the other just missed being sued barely and lost a billion dollars doing so. And just that fact alone makes them both suck. They may be good systems from a library standpoint, but they are unreliable junk. Google DRE failure and RROD failure and look at how many pages turn up. Both are pathetic.

How anyone can defend anything like that while condemning the other is beyond me. And yeah, the "IM SYZTEM OWNAR" sigs are pathetic little fanboy flags. Congraturation.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

No need to resort to name calling. We do not tolerate that here. Go to System Wars for that.

Kunlun

He merely stated that Sony was also responsible for hardware failures last gen, maybe you misunderstood. we already had this discussion in a different thread so we are probably just continuing the discussion from that thread and leaving some of the details out which might be confusing to posters in this thread. I'll keep that in mind for my future posts.

I was just thinking that this report will probably inspire a class action lawsuit against MS. Sure, MS has taken full responsibility and offered to replace faulty units free of charge, but now that people know MS knew about it BEFORE they launched, I am sure disgruntled consumers who had to buy multiple units might want their money back for the first broken unit.

You bought four units, right? So let's say when your third unit went RROD, you probably got it fixed by MS for free but what about the first two units? I am sure even if MS offered to fix them, no one likes to have three 360s sitting there in their living room.

S0lidSnake

Nah, I've bought two (well, one and then I traded a PS2, some games, and some cash for another). All the repairs have been gratis, though. But then there's the whole "time is money" thing, and that's what really irks me -- time spent waiting for my system to come back was missed playtime.

I don't know about a lawsuit, but it's possible. I'm sure MS' legal department looked into it pretty long and hard when advising them what to do, and they've probably found some sleazy little loophole that allows them to get out of any liability since they're repairing any RROD problems for three years for free.

TBH this isn't suprising looking at all of the facts. I was actually speculating this long before by just taking into account the defect rate being absolutely ridiculous.

It's really sad that the corrupt ways of the tech industry and really all industries in general dealing with public traded companies (with them being at immense pressure from investors 24/7; it's pretty much when a eithical business founded on much philosophy turns into a tryannical money maker) has seeped into the gaming world. But I guess that's the price with gaming being bigger than ever. In the end, I know it's gonna sounds cliche but we are only ones who can fix these problems by raising our collective voice.

Roris0A

Class Action Lawsuits? :P I'm up for it, but I dont know if I want MS to pay more than they already have. Hopefully, they'll learn from Sony and make their next console a thing of beauty.

[QUOTE="Roris0A"]

TBH this isn't suprising looking at all of the facts. I was actually speculating this long before by just taking into account the defect rate being absolutely ridiculous.

It's really sad that the corrupt ways of the tech industry and really all industries in general dealing with public traded companies (with them being at immense pressure from investors 24/7; it's pretty much when a eithical business founded on much philosophy turns into a tryannical money maker) has seeped into the gaming world. But I guess that's the price with gaming being bigger than ever. In the end, I know it's gonna sounds cliche but we are only ones who can fix these problems by raising our collective voice.

S0lidSnake

Class Action Lawsuits? :P I'm up for it, but I dont know if I want MS to pay more than they already have. Hopefully, they'll learn from Sony and make their next console a thing of beauty.

I still think the most fascinating thing about the RROD problem is how it's going to affect Microsoft next-gen. I'm becoming more convinced that they HAVE to launch early now, so that by the time the other systems are about to come out, enough time will have passed to show that the successor to the 360 is reliable. I really, really, REALLY think Microsoft is going to have a hard time convincing the public to jump in again, unless they include a five year full coverage warranty with the machine. I know I won't be buying at launch -- I've said that for a long time. I'll let someone else be the guinea pig this go around. :P

I think Microsoft is in a strong position in a lot of ways, but I think they're in serious trouble in others, and lack of consumer confidence (or brand confidence) is something that could really kick them in the junk next go around.

[QUOTE="Roris0A"]

TBH this isn't suprising looking at all of the facts. I was actually speculating this long before by just taking into account the defect rate being absolutely ridiculous.

It's really sad that the corrupt ways of the tech industry and really all industries in general dealing with public traded companies (with them being at immense pressure from investors 24/7; it's pretty much when a eithical business founded on much philosophy turns into a tryannical money maker) has seeped into the gaming world. But I guess that's the price with gaming being bigger than ever. In the end, I know it's gonna sounds cliche but we are only ones who can fix these problems by raising our collective voice.

S0lidSnake

Class Action Lawsuits? :P I'm up for it, but I dont know if I want MS to pay more than they already have. Hopefully, they'll learn from Sony and make their next console a thing of beauty.

All I had in mind was letting M$ know we are aware of their malpractice and are not passive sheep. How I thought of enacting that was just simply sending a complaint. but if you feel like a lawsuit then go on ahead. :P In the end what matters is simply making this known to everyone or else we'll be falling into the same BS next gen.

How anyone can defend anything like that while condemning the other is beyond me. And yeah, the "IM SYZTEM OWNAR" sigs are pathetic little fanboy flags. Congraturation.>

Shame-usBlackley

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

Welcome to the wonderful world of consumer electronics. It's all the same made in China/Malaysia/Thailand crap. Nintendo and Sony wrote the book on this business model long before Microsoft got in the game. They've provided the blue print for success, why wouldn't MS follow it? Same as any electroics maker. It's all about marketshare, quality control be damned.

I'm not sure why the report brought Nintendo into the discussion, considering that Nintendo and Microsoft aren't even competitors, at least not in a conventional sense.

CarnageHeart

Pretty much agreed.

What incentive is there to put out quality when the 32 and 128 era rewarded the most unreliable hardware? I'm not writing Microsoft a pass here, because they DO suck for putting out glitchy hardware knowingly. Sony's just as bad is what I'm saying.

@Marcus - If that were true why is the X360 the only current gen system suffering from a high rate of failure?

@Shamus - How can Sony be just as bad if their inexcusable behaviour is in the past? Isn't a reformed thief preferable to a current thief?

As for the notion that no one has paid a price for releasing unreliable hardware, that is unknowable. Being the bestselling system of one's generation doesn't mean one couldn't have sold better.

Reread my post, I think you missed the point.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

What incentive is there to put out quality when the 32 and 128 era rewarded the most unreliable hardware? I'm not writing Microsoft a pass here, because they DO suck for putting out glitchy hardware knowingly. Sony's just as bad is what I'm saying.

Kunlun

Yes, the atrocious PS2 hardware and a class action lawsuit were all just figments of our imaginations. Are you for real?

In the end what matters is simply making this known to everyone or else we'll be falling into the same BS next gen.

Roris0A

People are going to go on with it because they can't resist not getting something as soon as possible, and gamers tend to demonstrate having a relatively expendable income.

[QUOTE="Roris0A"]

In the end what matters is simply making this known to everyone or else we'll be falling into the same BS next gen.

Skylock00

People are going to go on with it because they can't resist not getting something as soon as possible, and gamers tend to demonstrate having a relatively expendable income.

Yeah it could very well repeat itself looking at those factors. I should've been more specific though what I meant by "making known". It was so people would actually do something about it now - even simply sending a letter would be immense if there were thousands. To get back to Sony, hasn't there been less Defects with the PS3 compared to the PS2? If so it worked to some extent; now MS is up next. We just need a larger voice I think.

By the way, I'd like to know who Takahashi's sources were. He claims to have put "years" of research into his report, but to an extent, it still comes off as a notch higher than hearsay. Much of this stuff seems unsubstantiated.

It's funny but if you look back at each generation of console, the least reliable console almost always won out. This gen might be the only exception.

8-Bit - NES - I'm sure you've blown into a cart or two in your day, and you just might have had to jam a second cart into your system to compensate for a broken loader mechanism. You didn't see too many problems with SMSs.

16-bit - No clear winner.

32-bit - Playstation - How many sideways and upside-down PS1s have you seen? I bet a lot. The Saturn and N64 were both very reliable.

Last Gen - PS2 - Disc read errors and the drives tended to not last too long. DC and XBox were both very reliable.

8-Bit - NES - I'm sure you've blown into a cart or two in your day, and you just might have had to jam a second cart into your system to compensate for a broken loader mechanism. You didn't see too many problems with SMSs.

dchan01

The Japanese Famicom didn't have as many problems, nor did the upright NES (which also lacked the lock out chip that frquently caused boot issues in time.Skylock00

From Wikipedia on the Famicom:

The Nintendo Family Computer (Famicom) was slow to gather momentum; a bad chip set caused the initial release of the system to crash. Following a product recall and a reissue with a new motherboard, the Famicom's popularity soared, becoming the best-selling game console in Japan by the end of 1984.

I wonder why Microsoft did not recall all the Xbox 360 units because of the "red ring" issue. It could have done what Nintendo and many companies had done when they have knowledge of a defective product. Perhaps because the "red ring" problem was not life or health-threatening is the reason Microsoft did not order a product recall.

From Wikipedia on the Famicom:

The Nintendo Family Computer (Famicom) was slow to gather momentum; a bad chip set caused the initial release of the system to crash. Following a product recall and a reissue with a new motherboard, the Famicom's popularity soared, becoming the best-selling game console in Japan by the end of 1984.

yowvapa-noi

Granted, I should've been more clear on my part.

I just learned my brother's X360 died again, which means that the replacement system will be his sixth (and he is on his second wireless adapter). Of course, consumers who get repeatedly crapped on by companies have no one to blame but themselves.

My brother went into his pocket twice early (back before MS decided it would stop forcing consumers to pay for the defects it knowingly shipped X360s with) and also went into his pocket once to pay for that second wireless adapter, so I doubt MS has much reason to worry about him having a breaking point.

It will be interesting to see how many more X360s die on him (the X360 is his only system, he is a heavy gamer who has a live-in girlfriend who is also a gamer) between now and the next generation.

I just learned my brother's X360 died again, which means that the replacement system will be his sixth (and he is on his second wireless adapter). Of course, consumers who get repeatedly crapped on by companies have no one to blame but themselves.

My brother went into his pocket twice early (back before MS decided it would stop forcing consumers to pay for the defects it knowingly shipped X360s with) and also went into his pocket once to pay for that second wireless adapter, so I doubt MS has much reason to worry about him having a breaking point.

It will be interesting to see how many more X360s die on him (the X360 is his only system, he is a heavy gamer who has a live-in girlfriend who is also a gamer) between now and the next generation.

CarnageHeart

Wow your brother must be one of those few unlucky ones that has had their system break 4 or more times. If I were your brother, I'd purchase a 360 with Best Buys warranty, you can replace the system (for a new one if they can't fix it) as many times it breaks during the first year. The second and last year of BB's warranty they will only exchange it for a new system once. It costs about $40 but with the luck your brother has, its worth it than waiting 3 weeks for your system to get back considering how many times the system keeps breaking on him. You go to BB and they give you one right away. Also I think they've offered warranty on games and accessories I believe for a few extra bucks, next time its worth purchasing so you don't run the risk of wasting $100 on an overpriced accessory.

In the end, the consumer shouldn't have to worry or feel obligated to purchase warranty on faulty hardware, but if you want to keep supporting such company; one should take precautions and be aware before losing extra $$.

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"]

Yeah, you've nailed me. Aside from the fact that I've owned every goddamn Sony system and, prior to this gen, used them as pretty much my sole source of gaming.

Bottom line is: I've still replaced more Sony hardware than Microsoft (3 PS2's, 2 PS1's vs. 3 360's). You ask how they can be just as bad, and there's your answer, Nancy. Sony has a storied history of console failures if you'd care to look them up. But then again, I've never been able to reason much with anyone who had pathetic system banners in their sig space, regardless of which platform they're pimping.

Kunlun

Whoa, I'm late to the party but I just read this bit of sludge and strongly felt the need to respond.

I don't know what playpen you just crawled out of, but you're so far out of line with this comment that you've pretty much single handedly tarnished any possible hope for credibility you will ever have on this particular forum. Calling Shamus a fanboy is probably the most insipid, ignorant statement you could have possibly made and it's certainly the stupidest thing I've read this year on these forums, and that's saying something.

Shamus is probably the most equitable and levelheaded person I've met in this hobby and despite my own expansive knoweldge of the medium, I respect his opinion because frankly, his only agenda is quality and the truth. What you call Sony bashing is really just a reality check and one you apparently need if you honestly are unaware of the insanely high failure rate of the launch PS2. Whether or not the XB360 has a higher failure rate doesn't change the fact that the original PS2 was a flawed console from the outset and everyone I know was forced to purchase at least one replacement, if not more.

So Deal with it, sport.

Also, Shamus, like me, owns a PS3 so I'm rather confused why he would bash something he paid so much money for? If anybody sounds like a slathering, frothing fanboy, it's you.

Get a grip, get some perspective, or get out of this place because your childish mentality is about as welcome as a case of genital herpes.

As for what Microsoft's next console will be like when it comes to hardware reliability I seriously doubt that it will be anything like the 360 was when it launched.Archangel3371

Yeah, I think they'll pull a Sony/PS3 sort of thing here and come out of nowhere with a system built like a freakin' tank. Still surprises me how well PS3 runs, from day one forward.

Yeah, I think they'll pull a Sony/PS3 sort of thing here and come out of nowhere with a system built like a freakin' tank. Still surprises me how well PS3 runs, from day one forward.

CronoSquall

I was astounded when they had it running some games inside a freezer that was set at 0 degrees for 100+ hours and yet it still worked like a champ all the way through.

It is truly an engineering marvel.

I just learned my brother's X360 died again, which means that the replacement system will be his sixth (and he is on his second wireless adapter). Of course, consumers who get repeatedly crapped on by companies have no one to blame but themselves.

My brother went into his pocket twice early (back before MS decided it would stop forcing consumers to pay for the defects it knowingly shipped X360s with) and also went into his pocket once to pay for that second wireless adapter, so I doubt MS has much reason to worry about him having a breaking point.

It will be interesting to see how many more X360s die on him (the X360 is his only system, he is a heavy gamer who has a live-in girlfriend who is also a gamer) between now and the next generation.

CarnageHeart

Sorry to hear about that. I'm surprised of how much your brother is willing to put up with MS' incompetence. They should really do something about their QA because quite frankly, they suck.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

I just learned my brother's X360 died again, which means that the replacement system will be his sixth (and he is on his second wireless adapter). Of course, consumers who get repeatedly crapped on by companies have no one to blame but themselves.

My brother went into his pocket twice early (back before MS decided it would stop forcing consumers to pay for the defects it knowingly shipped X360s with) and also went into his pocket once to pay for that second wireless adapter, so I doubt MS has much reason to worry about him having a breaking point.

It will be interesting to see how many more X360s die on him (the X360 is his only system, he is a heavy gamer who has a live-in girlfriend who is also a gamer) between now and the next generation.

BladesOfAthena

Sorry to hear about that. I'm surprised of how much your brother is willing to put up with MS' incompetence. They should really do something about their QA because quite frankly, they suck.

me 2. Buy your brother a PS3, you are the worst brother ever. *

*[spoiler] Cain doesn't count, if they had the PS3 in those days, he wouldve sacrificed his PS3 and God wouldve defnitely accepted his sacrifice over Abel's. [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="CronoSquall"]

Yeah, I think they'll pull a Sony/PS3 sort of thing here and come out of nowhere with a system built like a freakin' tank. Still surprises me how well PS3 runs, from day one forward.

BladesOfAthena

I was astounded when they had it running some games inside a freezer that was set at 0 degrees for 100+ hours and yet it still worked like a champ all the way through.

It is truly an engineering marvel.

lol, that cant be true! :lol:

The only problem i have with my 60GB is the fan noise. I vacuumed the hell out of it but it just wont go. It is really annoying during the slow scenes in movies.

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"][QUOTE="CronoSquall"]

Yeah, I think they'll pull a Sony/PS3 sort of thing here and come out of nowhere with a system built like a freakin' tank. Still surprises me how well PS3 runs, from day one forward.

S0lidSnake

I was astounded when they had it running some games inside a freezer that was set at 0 degrees for 100+ hours and yet it still worked like a champ all the way through.

It is truly an engineering marvel.

lol, that cant be true! :lol:

The only problem i have with my 60GB is the fan noise. I vacuumed the hell out of it but it just wont go. It is really annoying during the slow scenes in movies.

Try using canned air.

My 20 gigs fan always seemed to be on high(loud) most of the time i assumed that dust built up inside of it. So i took some canned air to it and cleaned it out it fixed the problem for me and so far my fan has stayed quite since.