Oh Nintendo...why doth thou hast to break my heart so...?

I just looked over EA's new DS game Henry Hatsworth again and to my surprise, the game is Tetris Attack! I can't believe it! It's the Tetris Attack formula combined with the platforming brilliance of Super Mario Bros or the old GBC WarioWorld games! And based on the reviews and seeing the videos, it looks like an amazing combination.

Here comes my topic: Henry Hatsworth is exactly the type of game I was hoping Nintendo would do with the Tetris Attack formula. But instead, Nintendo gave us a heartless, souless, joyless, and extremely stripped out, dull version of Tetris Attack, Planet Puzzle League.

Nintendo doesn't have a soul anymore.

Sometimes I think Nintendo takes this casual gaming design philosophy too far. Is it really that intimidating to non-gamers to do something creative like their past Tetris Attack games? Even EA came up with this amazing new puzzle game that shines with more creativity and charm than anything Nintendo has done for the DS lately. And the irony is, isn't Henry Hatsworth considered a casual game?

But EA got it right; even though Henry Hatsworth is great for casuals, it's also great for hardcore gamers as well. The key is balance...EA found it...Nintendo lost it.

This is what Planet Puzzle League should've been but with beloved Nintendo characters.

What an amazing job EA did with their new game. Henry Hatsworth feels inspired, original, and overloaded with creativity made by developers who love games...and who are obvious big fans of Tetris Attack. This is what I wanted Nintendo to come up with using the Tetris Attack formula. I wished for a game with personality, creativity, with that past Nintendo magic we all grew up with. But unfortunately, the un-inspired Planet Puzzle League is what they came up with.

Nintendo doesn't seem to get it anymore. They're blind and distant to gamers now, or that's what I think now.

You may or may not agree with me but this is how I feel about this.

Nintendo broke my heart.

I don't mean any offense here, but...why are you making another thread about this game when you've already made one about Henry Hatsworth, and you could've easily inserted this post in that thread? Furthermore, this thread really doesn't set itself up for discussion, as it is set up more as an outpouring of your emotions rather than a premise for reactions/feedback/discussion. This is simply best suited for a blog entry.

Boom Blox was a great unique take on the puzzle genre.

So stop whining, Nintendo make alot of good games (though, yes they are outnumbered by the bin games..)

Let me Ask you a question Ask:

Why does it matter?

As long as you get your game, why does it matter if it's Henry Hatsworth or Wario?

Would Gunstar Heroes have been better if Mario was holding the gun? Did Konami take a chance making a CastleVania game using the proven Metroid formula?

In this day and age; the economic climate we are currently in, Nintendo is still making money. They are doing it by being smart. They are managing their consoles wisely, letting others shine and put out quality 3rd party products...

...yes there are bin games. Those bin games fund the creation of bigger budget core games. Have you ever watched a kid play a bin game? THEY LIKE THEM! Who are we to tell them otherwise?

Nintendo makes money off of MadWorld, House of the Dead: Overkill, Deady Creatures, Rune Factory: Frontier and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, as much as they do Cooking Mama, Jake Power: Fireman and Grey's Anatomy. They take that money and take their time making the next Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess.

They manage their consoles and make money off of others making money. It's the way business happens outside of the realm of videogames and consoles. Would you rather they NOT do this, pump out a Zelda every year till gamers are tired of the series and take a loss on a franchise they rely on?

I wish everyone would look at their game collection and realize THERE ARE ALREADY MORE GAMES THAN WE HAVE TIME TO PLAY AS IT IS. Do you have absolutely nothing else to play? Then why are you pining for that next Tetris Attack? Ignore the garbage. Enjoy what you have. Explore ideas outside of Nintendo's franchises, and let them do their thing.

You may not like how they are doing it, but don't mess with Nintendo's success. You will still get your great games from them, I PROMISE you. It was an uphill battle for them to get back to the top of the console market; they are not going to do something stupid and reckless to lose their momentum now. More so than any other company out there they plan, research and innovate their way to areas not yet reached by any other manufacturer. We may not always comprehend what's on their minds, but you can't deny the millions of systems sold in the last few years.

Think of it this way: Did we know about Excitebots a month or two ago? Nope! Is it going to be a quality release put out by Nintendo. Yup. Mario and Luigi 3 is looming somewhere out there. Rhythm Heaven is an unknown variable right now that may turn out to be a new successful franchise for the US. Who knows what they are going to do with the DSi and their apps yet...

Try not to focus so much on your disappointments and open your eyes to the potential that may be sitting right under your nose!

Let me Ask you a question Ask:

Why does it matter?

As long as you get your game, why does it matter if it's Henry Hatsworth or Wario?

Would Gunstar Heroes have been better if Mario was holding the gun? Did Konami take a chance making a CastleVania game using the proven Metroid formula?

In this day and age; the economic climate we are currently in, Nintendo is still making money. They are doing it by being smart. They are managing their consoles wisely, letting others shine and put out quality 3rd party products...

...yes there are bin games. Those bin games fund the creation of bigger budget core games. Have you ever watched a kid play a bin game? THEY LIKE THEM! Who are we to tell them otherwise?

Nintendo makes money off of MadWorld, House of the Dead: Overkill, Deady Creatures, Rune Factory: Frontier and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, as much as they do Cooking Mama, Jake Power: Fireman and Grey's Anatomy. They take that money and take their time making the next Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess.

They manage their consoles and make money off of others making money. It's the way business happens outside of the realm of videogames and consoles. Would you rather they NOT do this, pump out a Zelda every year till gamers are tired of the series and take a loss on a franchise they rely on?

I wish everyone would look at their game collection and realize THERE ARE ALREADY MORE GAMES THAN WE HAVE TIME TO PLAY AS IT IS. Do you have absolutely nothing else to play? Then why are you pining for that next Tetris Attack? Ignore the garbage. Enjoy what you have. Explore ideas outside of Nintendo's franchises, and let them do their thing.

You may not like how they are doing it, but don't mess with Nintendo's success. You will still get your great games from them, I PROMISE you. It was an uphill battle for them to get back to the top of the console market; they are not going to do something stupid and reckless to lose their momentum now. More so than any other company out there they plan, research and innovate their way to areas not yet reached by any other manufacturer. We may not always comprehend what's on their minds, but you can't deny the millions of systems sold in the last few years.

Think of it this way: Did we know about Excitebots a month or two ago? Nope! Is it going to be a quality release put out by Nintendo. Yup. Mario and Luigi 3 is looming somewhere out there. Rhythm Heaven is an unknown variable right now that may turn out to be a new successful franchise for the US. Who knows what they are going to do with the DSi and their apps yet...

Try not to focus so much on your disappointments and open your eyes to the potential that may be sitting right under your nose!

Phantom_Leo

There was a game on the N64 called Pokemon Puzzle Leage that I loved like a human baby. It, similar Henry Hatsworth, was actually Tetris Attack at its core. I loved the game because I'd never seen a puzzle game like that (totally missed Tetris Attack), and I found it extremely engaging, especially once I started getting big combos. The fact that it was skinned with a Pokemon theme was just a nifty bonus (I liked Pokemon at the time), and I enjoyed the characters, but it was the gameplay that really grabbed me.

When Planet Puzzle League dropped, I just had to have it. What I quickly realized was that... it was boring. It was the same Tetris Attack, but just like ASK said, it was just plain vanilla. No, sugarless plain vanilla. I was really stunned by how quickly I lost interest in the game, and I eventually realized it was because the game had absolutely zero personality. I'm an all-gameplay-eff-the-rest kind of guy and all, but I have to admit, there's a lot to be said for presentation.

I don't think ASK was saying he wants all of his games to be drowning in Nintendo atmosphere, just that it sucks for a company who built its reputation on charm back in the NES days to get outcIassd by a company that doesn't even do this kind of game in the first place. You know?

One final thought about Nintendo's momentum: I agree with you, but I look at it differently. Remember that Nintendo had a hard-fought battle back to the top, but they didn't use guys like us to get there. You're right, they're not going to blow their lead by ignoring the people who put them on top. Trouble is, we ain't those people. Think about it.

Boom Blox was a great unique take on the puzzle genre.

So stop whining, Nintendo make alot of good games (though, yes they are outnumbered by the bin games..)

hyperkass

[QUOTE="Phantom_Leo"]

Let me Ask you a question Ask:

Why does it matter?

As long as you get your game, why does it matter if it's Henry Hatsworth or Wario?

Would Gunstar Heroes have been better if Mario was holding the gun? Did Konami take a chance making a CastleVania game using the proven Metroid formula?

In this day and age; the economic climate we are currently in, Nintendo is still making money. They are doing it by being smart. They are managing their consoles wisely, letting others shine and put out quality 3rd party products...

...yes there are bin games. Those bin games fund the creation of bigger budget core games. Have you ever watched a kid play a bin game? THEY LIKE THEM! Who are we to tell them otherwise?

Nintendo makes money off of MadWorld, House of the Dead: Overkill, Deady Creatures, Rune Factory: Frontier and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, as much as they do Cooking Mama, Jake Power: Fireman and Grey's Anatomy. They take that money and take their time making the next Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess.

They manage their consoles and make money off of others making money. It's the way business happens outside of the realm of videogames and consoles. Would you rather they NOT do this, pump out a Zelda every year till gamers are tired of the series and take a loss on a franchise they rely on?

I wish everyone would look at their game collection and realize THERE ARE ALREADY MORE GAMES THAN WE HAVE TIME TO PLAY AS IT IS. Do you have absolutely nothing else to play? Then why are you pining for that next Tetris Attack? Ignore the garbage. Enjoy what you have. Explore ideas outside of Nintendo's franchises, and let them do their thing.

You may not like how they are doing it, but don't mess with Nintendo's success. You will still get your great games from them, I PROMISE you. It was an uphill battle for them to get back to the top of the console market; they are not going to do something stupid and reckless to lose their momentum now. More so than any other company out there they plan, research and innovate their way to areas not yet reached by any other manufacturer. We may not always comprehend what's on their minds, but you can't deny the millions of systems sold in the last few years.

Think of it this way: Did we know about Excitebots a month or two ago? Nope! Is it going to be a quality release put out by Nintendo. Yup. Mario and Luigi 3 is looming somewhere out there. Rhythm Heaven is an unknown variable right now that may turn out to be a new successful franchise for the US. Who knows what they are going to do with the DSi and their apps yet...

Try not to focus so much on your disappointments and open your eyes to the potential that may be sitting right under your nose!

ShenlongBo

There was a game on the N64 called Pokemon Puzzle Leage that I loved like a human baby. It, similar Henry Hatsworth, was actually Tetris Attack at its core. I loved the game because I'd never seen a puzzle game like that (totally missed Tetris Attack), and I found it extremely engaging, especially once I started getting big combos. The fact that it was skinned with a Pokemon theme was just a nifty bonus (I liked Pokemon at the time), and I enjoyed the characters, but it was the gameplay that really grabbed me.

When Planet Puzzle League dropped, I just had to have it. What I quickly realized was that... it was boring. It was the same Tetris Attack, but just like ASK said, it was just plain vanilla. No, sugarless plain vanilla. I was really stunned by how quickly I lost interest in the game, and I eventually realized it was because the game had absolutely zero personality. I'm an all-gameplay-eff-the-rest kind of guy and all, but I have to admit, there's a lot to be said for presentation.

I don't think ASK was saying he wants all of his games to be drowning in Nintendo atmosphere, just that it sucks for a company who built its reputation on charm back in the NES days to get outcIassd by a company that doesn't even do this kind of game in the first place. You know?

One final thought about Nintendo's momentum: I agree with you, but I look at it differently. Remember that Nintendo had a hard-fought battle back to the top, but they didn't use guys like us to get there. You're right, they're not going to blow their lead by ignoring the people who put them on top. Trouble is, we ain't those people. Think about it.

And yes, Shen. I couldn't have said it better.

I was also excited about Planet Puzzle League. And once I got it, I didn't know whether to love it or feel happy about it. Like you said, the puzzle mechanics are there but that Nintendo magic was gone. I got bored of it real quickly. I poured in hundreds of hours on Pokemon Puzzle Challenge for the Gameboy Color. I didn't care if it was Pokemon, it was a great game and I loved it. I also loved Pokemon Puzzle League to death. And when I finally played Tetris Attack, it was the greatest puzzler I've ever played.

That's why Planet Puzzle League is probably the most disappointing game I've ever played. It's not that the game is bad, it just wasn't the same series anymore.

And Leo, I understand what you're saying. And you're right. I should let the past rest and enjoy the current games. Actually, I have moved on. This is the first time I really felt indifferent to what Nintendo has been doing, and I was a huge Nintendo fanboy. Some of that is still there of course like my interest in the next Zelda or Mario game. Or that undying desire for another 2D Metroid. But other than those things, I'm enjoying everything else from other talented developers who make great games.

It's just seeing Henry Hatsworth kind of opened up some old wounds, you know. I mean, it really is no big deal, but you don't know how long I was waiting for a DS Tetris Attack type of game from Nintendo. I longed for this, playing versus mode with our favorite Nintendo characters online, in front of our favorite Nintendo themed skins, with super moves, throwing down tons of garbage, and seeing the character sprites animated and reacting to each other would've been so awesome! Planet Puzzle League versus mode just isn't the same. There's no soul or personality. It just feels robotic, empty, and dead. That's why when I got Planet Puzzle League, I was disheartened because the series wasn't the same. It sucks that it had to be this way.

In a shorter version of what I was trying to say: You shouldn't be sad right now, you should be happy! You GOT the Tetris Attack styIe game you've been dreaming about --AND-- Nintendo lives on yet another day due to their current strategies...

No lay-offs, no pay-freezes, no studios closing at the "Big N."

Planet Puzzle Leauge had no Soul, but Galaxy was pratically godly. You may not have liked Mario Kart Wii, but it alone could probably make up for the losses at Sony and scores of Nintendo fans LOVE it (myself included!)...

We shouldn't be upset when another company produces a game of Nintendo-like quality, we should be ecstatic! They have set the bar pretty high and it's taken this long for other teams to catch up! The biggest difference about today is: now we have teams producing great games outside of Nintendo --AND-- we still have Nintendo too...!

I don't think ASK was saying he wants all of his games to be drowning in Nintendo atmosphere, just that it sucks for a company who built its reputation on charm back in the NES days to get outcIassd by a company that doesn't even do this kind of game in the first place. You know?

One final thought about Nintendo's momentum: I agree with you, but I look at it differently. Remember that Nintendo had a hard-fought battle back to the top, but they didn't use guys like us to get there. You're right, they're not going to blow their lead by ignoring the people who put them on top. Trouble is, we ain't those people. Think about it.

ShenlongBo

I know exactly what Ask was saying...

--BUT-- Everyone is worrying that IF Nintendo appeals SOLELY to the "casuals" that have put them back on top now, we the core fans are no longer going to get the "core" games we have grown to know and love from them.

I just don't believe that to be true.

The mountains of cash they are now sitting on from their current success and market --WILL-- produce the games we love --AND-- games for the casuals too. It is just taking longer now (development time wise) for those games to be produced, so we are watching all of the bin games hit the shelves by the truckloads while we have to patiently wait. It probably took more time to produce the score of Mario Galaxy alone than it takes to make and put out the typical motion control party game that mostly everyone else is producing.

Keep in mind, it was ALWAYS Nintendo's strategy to get the "casuals" hooked with "vanilla" simplicity, THEN gradually introduce more of their core concepts to the games... to make them more "core" if you will... They are not trying to "lose" us... they are just trying to "add" them to US; to simply make EVERYONE in the world a "gamer" they can and eventually will sell games to...

I have been a Nintendo fan all of my life. I always will be. I think they are doing an incredible job out there!

In a shorter version of what I was trying to say: You shouldn't be sad right now, you should be happy! You GOT the Tetris Attack styIe game you've been dreaming about --AND-- Nintendo lives on yet another day due to their current strategies...

No lay-offs, no pay-freezes, no studios closing at the "Big N."

Planet Puzzle Leauge had no Soul, but Galaxy was pratically godly. You may not have liked Mario Kart Wii, but it alone could probably make up for the losses at Sony and scores of Nintendo fans LOVE it (myself included!)...

We shouldn't be upset when another company produces a game of Nintendo-like quality, we should be ecstatic! They have set the bar pretty high and it's taken this long for other teams to catch up! The biggest difference about today is: now we have teams producing great games outside of Nintendo --AND-- we still have Nintendo too...!

Phantom_Leo

Anyone shocked and horrified at Nintendo's abandonment of hardcore gamers hasn't been paying attention. When it became clear that the type of people who tended to buy the GC weren't interested in games without Mario and friends (Pikmin and Eternal Darkness were vastly outsold by Luigi's Mansion), Nintendo abandoned its promise to make original games and focused on the biggest pot of money.

This gen Nintendo has found a bigger audience which accepts cheaper to develop games (I'll wager Wii Fit's budget was a fraction of that of Galaxy) so its strange that some people are surprised by the fact its focused on the biggest pot of money.

On the flipside, while I think their behaviour is perfectly rational, I don't see why a gamer (as opposed to a stock investor) would say something like 'Hey, they've abandoned their old audience, but they're making lots of money!'. I was a big Sega fan, but I was less happy with them when they were making money off of Pachinko and garbage Sonic games than when they were taking chances and releasing quality games I cared about like Valkyria Chronicles (I tip my hat to them for releasing Mad World and House of the Dead on the Wii, though I don't have the system). Also, given the design of the Wii (tiny amount of buttons, limited processing power, friend codes) its clear that the Wii isn't made for the same gamers the NES, SNES, N64 and GC were made for.

Last but not least, the notion anyone had to catch up with Nintendo is laughable. The non-Nintendo industry has always produced classics like Defender, Phantasy Star, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Street Fighter 2, Dig Dug, Shinobi, Contra, Axelay, Pac Man, Gunstar Heros, Chrono Trigger, Ghosts n' Goblins, Streets of Rage 2, Mickey Mouse and the Castle of Illusion, Legendary Axe, Outrun and Aladdin (the Shiny version).

Meh, I still like Nintendo. Sure they have been creating alot of shovelware, or "bin games", but whatever, just simply ignore them and look for the games you want. My Wii collectiion is just as big as my GC collection, as are both about the same as my DS collection; to me, Nintendo has consistantly been doing a great job.

And also, I don't see casual games as a bad thing. They sell like hotcakes on the Wii, whoch in turn, gives us hardcore gamers the games we want thanks to the profit from the casual games, that, and there are actually some fun casual games out there, such as WiiFit. While I may not be the biggest fan of casual games, there are plenty of people who do like them, and like I said previously, the profit from them will help produce the hardcore games we like.

stop whining

just_nonplussed

[QUOTE="ShenlongBo"]

I don't think ASK was saying he wants all of his games to be drowning in Nintendo atmosphere, just that it sucks for a company who built its reputation on charm back in the NES days to get outcIassd by a company that doesn't even do this kind of game in the first place. You know?

One final thought about Nintendo's momentum: I agree with you, but I look at it differently. Remember that Nintendo had a hard-fought battle back to the top, but they didn't use guys like us to get there. You're right, they're not going to blow their lead by ignoring the people who put them on top. Trouble is, we ain't those people. Think about it.

Phantom_Leo

I know exactly what Ask was saying...

--BUT-- Everyone is worrying that IF Nintendo appeals SOLELY to the "casuals" that have put them back on top now, we the core fans are no longer going to get the "core" games we have grown to know and love from them.

I just don't believe that to be true.

The mountains of cash they are now sitting on from their current success and market --WILL-- produce the games we love --AND-- games for the casuals too. It is just taking longer now (development time wise) for those games to be produced, so we are watching all of the bin games hit the shelves by the truckloads while we have to patiently wait. It probably took more time to produce the score of Mario Galaxy alone than it takes to make and put out the typical motion control party game that mostly everyone else is producing.

Keep in mind, it was ALWAYS Nintendo's strategy to get the "casuals" hooked with "vanilla" simplicity, THEN gradually introduce more of their core concepts to the games... to make them more "core" if you will... They are not trying to "lose" us... they are just trying to "add" them to US; to simply make EVERYONE in the world a "gamer" they can and eventually will sell games to...

I have been a Nintendo fan all of my life. I always will be. I think they are doing an incredible job out there!

As far was what ASK was saying, I feel ya. Pokemon Puzzle League is still there for me to love. Just try to think about it from our perspective though: why would Nintendo even bother to put out a humdrum game in that case? Surely the people at Nintendo also realize that Pokemon Puzzle League is still around, right? So why the half-assed effort on a new, similar game? Call my a cynic, but I think the fact that Nintendo has been pulling in money by the truckload with minimal effort (all the while only going par for the couse on "our" titles) is a major factor. Again, I'm just some guy calling it the way he sees it, and I don't defend this as absolute truth, it's just my interpretation of the climate.

To me puzzle games are worthless and the very definition of the BAD version of casual gaming. Thats what you give to little kids who are to young and impatient to follow a story or to somebody who is to old and impatient to understand complex controls and follow the story. _AbBaNdOn

You might not like puzzle games, but someone's interest in a puzzle game is no reflection on whether or not they are capable of following a story. That's just stupid. The exact opposite is actually the truth. A more mature audience tends to enjoy puzzle games simply because it is not the instant gratification you receive from action games that younger audiences thrive for. Not to mention there are plenty of serious gamers that can enjoy a good puzzle game, even if it's not their preferred genre, like myself.

If you honestly think any of what you just typed is true than you are terribly confused.

I could be wrong about Nintendo, I don't hesitate to admit, and frankly I hope that I am. I loved the days when Nintendo was making everything I loved. However, I just happen to think they may have discovered something drastic in their upswing: they don't need me. I don't think they'll ever go out of their way to lose any audience, but if the core players turn out to be casualties in the war for the casual dollar, I don't think Nintendo will do much about it. Only time will tell.

As far was what ASK was saying, I feel ya. Pokemon Puzzle League is still there for me to love. Just try to think about it from our perspective though: why would Nintendo even bother to put out a humdrum game in that case? Surely the people at Nintendo also realize that Pokemon Puzzle League is still around, right? So why the half-assed effort on a new, similar game? Call my a cynic, but I think the fact that Nintendo has been pulling in money by the truckload with minimal effort (all the while only going par for the couse on "our" titles) is a major factor. Again, I'm just some guy calling it the way he sees it, and I don't defend this as absolute truth, it's just my interpretation of the climate.

ShenlongBo

I'm not trying to defend Nintendo; even though that's exactly how it sounds right about now. I am not the kind of person that needs to have everyone else like exactly what I like to feel better about myself. I have been a fan when Nintendo was the least liked console out there; I will remain a fan now. Through good times and bad; that's the definition of "Fan" boy! :P

I'm not here to convince anyone. Not to make a fan out of a Sony owner, nor rescue disillusioned Nintendo one's either.

I won't argue my points here because these are solely my opinion; this cannot be disputed, nor will anyone change my mind...

That being said:

I liked Planet Puzzle League. I firmly believed they kept it LESS complicated to make it smoother online playable. Simple as that. We lost some of its soul in the transition, but gained what all long time Nintendo proponents have been crying out for, for years: The ability to play against everyone online, and in THAT area it shined! I think if it had all of the effects, characters running around, fancy changing backgrounds and all the bells and whistles Pokemon Puzzle League had, it would not have worked online as well. Again, just my opinion.

I feel the same way about Mario Kart Wii. Compare THAT to Smash Bros. Brawl. Sure they simplified Mario Kart quite a bit, but look how it runs online versus Brawl, with all of it's options, bells and whistles... It's not just the casuals buying and playing Kart even to this day, a year later: It's fans too!

I think it's time everyone stop and ask the question: Is Nintendo changing their outlook, or am I?

People change! There's nothing wrong with that. Back in my college days people used to call me that "Sega" guy... Yes, seriously! I was still a fan then too. Tastes wax and wane. Companies need to change with the times too, but Nintendo's core philosophy is still underneath it all: Games that EVERYONE can play! We may forget that as we get older, but that's not THEIR fault!

Boom Blox was a great unique take on the puzzle genre.

So stop whining, Nintendo make alot of good games (though, yes they are outnumbered by the bin games..)

Meh, I like it when it's not just Nintendo making great games. I'm happy EA pulled this one off so well. I really enjoy it myself :)