older consoles with bad legacies

I often think that nostalgia with older consoles sometimes blinds us of their flaws.

Sega Genesis

Despite being touted as a stronger console, it was only stronger than the NES (a console that was on it's way out - not a big achievement). With exception to processor speed, SNES outshined Genesis in most other specs.

It sold a disk-drive, an upgrade attachment and an improved controller to make up for faulty designs. Aside from Sonic, it did not have many memorable exclusives. So it mainly existed as a console-wars console with a darker tough-guy image.

Nintendo 64

Was a huge step back for Nintendo. It sold around half as much as it's predecessor SNES. It began Nintendo's weak third party relations. It lacked a diskdrive, when the PS1 over a year earlier had one. It had a string of strong exclusives, but most of them were Rare's accomplishments. The console didn't have a large game selection. Aside from 10-15 classics, there was really not much of a library.

Nintendo Wii

To most people it was a fad, but most of its very few quality exclusives haven't aged well. It missed a lot of third-party, was weak on hardware, had horrible online and installed an paranoid friend-code system. Both Zelda games were massively hyped, and then largely forgotten by many gamers. Mario Kart and Smash Bros had weak online and are going to be replaced by their Wii U successors.

Yes, but it had Michael Jackson's Moonwalker! There's no denying the awesomeness of the system for that title alone.

The Genesis did not have memorable exclusives? Hahahaha! Yeah, please refrain from talking about consoles you know nothing about, thanks.

I stopped reading once you said the Genesis didn't have many memorable exclusives outside of Sonic.

Horrible post.

Sega fans. lol

what were its best exclusives outside of sonic?

i could be wrong. history, is in fact, written by the winners. maybe mario and zelda are only more memorable today than _____ because SNES won.

lol, thanks for proving our point by actually asking. It has zero to do with being a SEGA fan. If you honest to goodness think Sonic was the only memorable exclusive that the Genesis had, then you are either way too young, or you've never held a Genesis controller in your life. Choose one, or both, there's no shame in admitting it.

Same. That's simply an inaccurate statement.

That's some bullshit right there.

this is really strange.

i'm being hammered with criticism for saying that the sega genesis and the wii are lacking in classic exclusives.

yet no examples are being provided...

No answer, huh? I'll take that as meaning both then.

In my experience, it's best to recommend someone so off base to read up on games on sites like SEGA-16, Classic Game Room, Racket Boy, etc. I could list titles such as Gunstar Heroes, Rocket Knight Adventures, Shinobi III, Streets of Rage 1-3, and so on, but it wouldn't mean a thing to you when your current understanding of the system is based off ignorance.

I must agree on the Genesis, at least partially: it has a number of pretty good and even great games, but in my opinion it lacks the sort of earth-shattering Donkey Kong Country, Megaman, A Link to the Past and and Super Metroid-level exclusives.

It's prety much a "do you like Sonic Yes/No" kind of system.

and I couldn't disagree more with that statement, especially when considering there are only 4 quality Sonic platformers out of a library consisting of almost 1000 games. If anything, the Genesis is a more "if you like action and arcade gameplay" kind of system. With that said, it does have its stellar rpgs and Zelda like games such as Phantasy Star II-IV, Shining Force I & II, Crusader of Centy, Beyond Oasis, etc.

As for the comparison of exclusives, I would take the ones I mentioned for the Genesis over the ones that you did for the SNES, especially Streets of Rage 2 & 3 and Gunstar Heroes, as well as the many that I didn't mention like Herzog Zwei; however, I do love a lot of games on the SNES too, including Mega Man X and Super Metroid.

You're the one farting claims out of your ass with no examples or definitions. I'll provide you with a list of quality exclusives for the Wii:

Super Mario Galaxy

Super Mario Galaxy 2

Fragile Dreams: Farewell Ruins of the Moon

The Last Story

Xenoblade Chronicles

Pandora's Tower

Animal Crossing: City Folk

TLoZ: Skyward Sword

Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn

Mario Kart Wii

Battalion Wars 2

Zack & Wiki

Rune Factory Frontier

Metroid Prime 3

Metroid Other M

New Super Mario Bros Wii

Shiren the Wanderer

Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon

No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle

Sin & Punishment: Star Successor

Feel absolutely free to disagree: it's a matter of personal preference today just like it was 20 years ago. That said, I'm a big fan of Beyond Oasis (aka Story of Thor) and from what I've played of Soleil (aka Crusader of Centy) it looks good, and I love (love!) the Moster World games, but I can't deny they don't have nearly the same quality or production values as Link to the Past, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Super Mario RPG or any of the Final Fantasy games. They're more on par with lesser SNES exclusives like Illusion of Gaia and Terranigma. Phantasy Star, Shining Force, I don't like turn based RPGs so I can't say, but from what I've seen they would blend in with the flood of japan-only JRPGs available on the SNES.

I don't want to be misunderstood here: Genesis=great games, there's a ton of games I love on that system, but the SNES had a string of instant classics that's hard to top, which is probably why the Genesis comes of a little short to a lot of people in comparison.

@dvader654:

Let Sonic rest in peace man. Here, this should cheer you up.

Fair enough, it's definitely a matter of personal taste, I agree. For me, I don't value rpgs that highly, and so the strengths of the Genesis are more suited to my genre preferences, like shmups, for example. It's just a pet peeve of mine when I see claims like "Sonic was the only thing the Genesis had," despite there being clearly so much more to the system. Usually, the people that say that sort of thing don't seem to know much about its library.

It had a ton of great arcade ports, one of the perks of being made by a company that actually consistently made excellent coin-ops. And yeah, it's a shm'up trasure trove, no contest there (though ironically what I consider to be the best shm'up ever made, Super Aleste/Space Megaforce, is on the SNES).

Have you ever played any of these consoles?

The Sega Genesis had amazing games. Outside of just Sonic, you had Gunstar Heroes, Golden Axe, Altered Beast, Gauntlet, Vectorman, etc, just to name a few. So what if it had attachments? Nobody made you buy them. The console was great on its own, and it had one of the best controllers ever too. You don't know what you're talking about.

As for the N64.... Dude, like, I don't even know how you say the N64 had a "bad legacy". So what if it sold half as many units as the last console? The N64 basically defined the late 90's. Every kid on every street had an N64 back in the day, and with good reason: it had the best games. I'm going to list a few for you right now: Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Pokémon Snap, Starfox 64, Ogre Battle 64, Yoshi's Story, Kirby 64, Bomberman, Diddy Kong Racing, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Donkey Kong 64, Paper Mario, Super Smash Bros.... That's not even all of them. If you aren't happy with that lineup, I feel bad for you my dude, you must hate every console ever made because the N64 probably has the most AAA titles of any console ever made.

Altered Beast was a terrible game. lol So much fail in that title...and definitely not one that defined the awesomeness of the Genesis.

I disagree with you on the N64 "defining the late 90's". I think the PS1 had more of an impact than N64.

@drekula2: I remember one game on Genesis that I believe was an exclusive and a classic at the same time. I wish they would make a new version. Battletoads! Anyone remember that one?

@jasean79:

The PS1 had more of an impact than the N64? Uh, what...?

Goldeneye alone basically laid the groundwork for every first person shooter we have today. Ocarina of Time redefined adventure games. Super Mario 64 redefined platformer games. Starfox 64 redefined space shooters. Super Smash Bros. redefined fighters. See where I'm going with this? N64 had a huge, huge impact on the gaming world. Had it not been for the N64, many of the genres and types of games we enjoy today wouldn't exist. Also, the N64 popularized the analog stick. To say the PS1 had a bigger impact than the N64 is both incorrect and nonsensical. The only game I can think of that had the kind of impact that N64 games did was Final Fantasy 7, which wasn't even very mainstream when it came out, and basically just took the same formula of the previous games and put it into 3D. Whoopdie doo.

As for altered beast, sure, by today's standards its a bad game, except back in the day it was technically impressive for the time. Saying its a "fail game" implies you have no understanding of the history of games or the progression of their development. Learn more about video games before you talk hate.

It's your opinion over mine. Altered Beast was a terrible game, both graphically and technically. There were a ton of games that played a thousand times better for the Genesis. I don't need a degree in "gaming history" to point out that fact.

And sorry, not agreeing with you on the N64 bit. I'm on the same side as the OP with that one. That system just didn't hit the mark like its predecessors. However, to be accurate with "failed consoles", the OP should've listed Atari Jaguar and Turbografx. Those two systems failed in comparison to the ones mentioned in this thread. Seems to me like he has something against those three, personally.

@jasean79:

If you think that when Altered Beast came out, it wasn't impressive for its time, then you have no idea what you're talking about. Your opinion on the game doesn't make it any less important to the history of games.

Also, you don't need to agree with me about the N64, because you're wrong. If there was a console of that generation with a greater impact, please explain why because I fail to see what the PS1 did that the N64 didn't. In fact, the main reason the PS1 sold so well is because A) it was a cheap CD player, B) had tons of JRPG's which are popular in Asia, and C) because it was the new kid on the block and everyone loves new shit. However, when it comes to influencing the gaming landscape, there is absolutely 100% no comparison. You're free to "think" whatever you want, except next time you sit down to play an adventure game, shooting game, or platforming game, consider that you probably wouldn't be playing it without the N64.

I highly doubt the N64 was the driving force behind future adventure/shooting/platforming games. They clearly existed years before the N64 even came out. To make that assumption is ridiculous. It's apparent that you loved this system; that's great, I'm happy you enjoyed it. But, again, I don't believe it had that much of an impact on the gaming world, sorry. If ever ceased to exist, I still think we would have the quality of games that we do today. The only thing that we'd be missing is maybe a few installments of Mario and Nintendo-based exclusives.

@jasean79:

You clearly have no idea how games have progressed over the last few decades. You also refuse to tell me why the PS1 had any more impact. You're obviously a young gamer who wasn't exposed to these systems enough, so for that I won't blame you. However, let me educate you.

Firstly, it's not "ridiculous assumption" to say the N64 was a game changer. In fact, it's a "ridiculous assumption" to say anything else. If you said that to anyone who actually knows their shit about video game history, they would think you were naïve. You're viewing the system based on the games alone, except you're not taking into account what the games did for the business in general. Before games like Ocarina of Time and Mario 64, there was NOTHING like them. You're talking about a period in history where almost every game was 2D. These games managed to take a 2D formula and adapt it for a 3D environment with huge success, and many of the techniques and systems we use in games today come from games on the N64. Especially, for example, Goldeneye. Were it not for Goldeneye, there wouldn't be games like Halo. Splitscreen shooting, weapon sets, secondary fire, health packs, etc. are all popular today because of Goldeneye and other games on the N64.

Sure, if you look at something like Super Mario 64, it's easy to say "that's just another Mario game", except that Mario game is the basis for literally every single platformer game that ever succeeded it. You seem to have an issue understanding that before the N64, there were no games like we have today. The N64 popularized 3D platforming, first person shooters on game consoles, analog sticks, multiplayer fighting games (as in, more than 2 people), 3D adventure, the controller trigger, and more. Go and find me a game that was at all like Ocarina of Time before it was released. I'll give you 5 bucks.

If you don't think the N64 was one of the most influential consoles in history, you really have a lot to learn.

@mwright469:

We could go at this all day, but you're stating things that aren't true. You're defending N64's stance in the gaming world because you are a FAN of the console. So, anything I try to say to you to convince you otherwise is moot. You're telling me that games like Halo would had never come to be if it weren't for Goldeneye on the N64? You know how crazy that sounds, right? Like developers of other systems never would've come up with the idea on their own had it not been for N64. It's all theoretical and there's no concrete proof to show that certain games of this era were the driving force behind future titles.

I'm going off what I know from gaming back to the Atari days when I started to now. I never owned an N64 (obviously), but that doesn't imply that I know nothing of gaming. I'm not a "young gamer" (probably got a few years on you, actually). The N64 used cartridges, did it not? The PS1 used discs. How many systems following N64 stuck with cartridge games? The PS1 took a step forward and succeeded. The N64 was manufactured two years after PS1 and discontinued 3 years before PS1, btw, so you can clearly see that the lifespan was quite a bit shorter than Sony's console.

My favorite Sega exclusives would be:

• Streets of Rage
• Streets of Rage 2
• Streets of Rage 3
• Sonic The Hedgehog
• Sonic The Hedgehog 2
• Sonic The Hedgehog 3
• Sonic Spinball
• Sonic & Knuckles
• Gunstar Heroes
• Castlevania Bloodlines
• Contra Hard Corps
• Michael Jackson Moonwalker
• The Lost World Jurassic Park
• The Terminator
• Castle of Illusion with Mickey Mouse
• Spider-Man vs The Kingpin.

The multiplatform games that I thought were better on the Sega Genesis than the SNES were Aladdin and Jurassic Park. I have other games in my Genesis collection but I don't know if they're exclusives or multiplatform games.

Alright.

I will be listing only good Megadrive/Genesis exclusives

• Alien Soldier
• Altered Beast
• After Burner II
• Castle of Illusion
• Castlevania Bloodlines
• Chakan: The Forever Man
• Contra Hard Corps
• Comix Zone
• Darius II
• Decap Attack
• Ecco the Dolphin
• E-SWAT: City Under Siege
• Golden Axe
• Golden Axe 2
• Golden Axe 3
• Gunstar Heroes
• Jurassic Park
• Jurassic Park: Rampage Edition
• Kid Chameleon
• Phantasy Star
• Pulseman
• Revenge of Shinobi
• Ranger X
• Ristar
• Road Rash
• Road Rash 2
• Rocket Knight
• Shadowrun
• Shining Force
• Shinobi III: Return of the Ninja Master
• Splatterhouse 2
• Splatterhouse 3
• Streets of Rage
• Streets of Rage 2
• Streets of Rage 3
• Strider
• Sword of Vermilion
• Toejam & Earl
• Vectorman
• Vectorman 2
• X-Men

What are we talking about here

Everyone else feel free to add what I've missed

Sparkster: Rocket Knight Adventures II, Mutant League Hockey, Mutant League Football, MUSHA, Herzog Zwei, X-Men 2: Clone Wars, Two Crude Dudes, Shinobi: Shadow Dancer, Whip Rush, Truxton, Grind Stormer, Verytex, Elemental Master, Battle Mania: Daiginjou, Gley Lancer, Verytex, Steel Empire, Monster World IV, Twinkle Tale, Dynamite Headdy, Eliminate Down, Alisia Dragoon, Super Hang-On!, Outrun, Virtua Racing, Beyond Oasis, Crusader of Centy, Air Buster, Gaiares, Sagaia, Wings of Wor, Sub-Terrania, Joe Montana Football, Bill Walsh College Football '95, Land Stalker, better versions of Thunder Force II-IV and NHL '94, etc.

There's a fat list of good Genesis games, which is partially the reason why I didn't want to name off that many before. :P

What I don't get is how people STILL conclude that Megadrive had no games except Sonic
People only compare the usual suspects (Sonic vs. Mario), the real gold are the third party games, imo.

For every genre that you could play on your SNES (except kart racing and maybe a proper Metroid kind of game), the Genesis/Megadrive had at least one game or franchise that was pretty damn good, just as good, or just plain better. Plus, some multiplatforms' superior versions were on the Genesis/Megadrive, like Jurassic Park or Shadowrun, and the Genesis/Megadrive was the go-to console if you wanted to play sports games, which may not seem like much here, but did make an impact out there in the real world.

Here's the truth: the Genesis/Megadrive comfortably outsold the SNES until they completely lost it and started making add-ons for the damn thing, forgetting that it was all about the GAMES, and not technology. Then, Nintendo capitalized on that mistake, released Donkey Kong Country and continued selling Super Nintendos while Sega went on to fail with the Saturn.

Yeah, I really have no idea. Between the two of us, we named off around 100 games, and not once did we mention Sonic.

And then Sega redeemed themselves with the release of the Dreamcast, even as short as that console lived.

The Saturn was good too, but you needed to do your research. Today, it's more appreciated, and it's one of the most expensive consoles to get games for without importing. Between it, the ps1 and N64, the Saturn has arguably the best library worth playing, because it's such a 2D juggernaut, and titles like NiGHTS and the Panzer Dragoon series have timeless gameplay.

I always greatly preferred the SNES over the Genesis myself because of the superior graphics and sound quality of the SNES. It's larger colour pallet and transperancy effects made all the games look much better and the sound chip was just sooo much better then what the Genesis could produce. I was never a big Sonic fan, always preferred Final Fight over Streets of Rage, and thought that SNES Sparkster was the better version. Still enjoyed some games like Gunstar Heroes, Phantasy Star, and Contra Hard Corps.

@jasean79:

So by your logic, anyone who ever invented anything has made no contribution to society because if they hadn't done it, someone else would have. Wow, nice logic. Problem 1, just like I don't have a way to prove that it wouldn't have been created, you don't have a way to prove it would. Problem 2, we aren't talking about what "could" happen, we're talking about what DID happen. Yes, if it were not for Goldeneye, there would be no Halo. Do you know why? Because a lot of the coding techniques, the controls, and the ideas that came from Goldeneye went into Halo. It's not to say that a game similar to Halo wouldn't have eventually developed, but no one knows. What we do know, is that Goldeneye leant many ideas to Halo, much like Doom leant many ideas to Goldeneye. These games DID influence one another and DID change the face of gaming, and if it wasn't for Goldeneye, you might have a game much like Halo, but it would not be Halo. If you can't wrap your head around this concept, I worry for you.

Battletoads is on the nes and the gameboy as well.

There's also battlemaniacs on the snes, and battletoads doubledragon.

@topgunmv: Oh cool I had no idea! I really liked the Genesis version. I was never a Gameboy fan. It would have been better if they made a version for gamegear. I will always remember Contra. I think that as far as I know was the first of it's kind.

Don't worry about me, I'm okay :)

And actually that logic is pretty good that you came up with, but not what I meant. Listen, I'm not saying that the N64 didn't help mold future gaming, I just don't think it was as big an impact as you say it is. You're right, both of our opinions are purely speculation and neither of us can be considered wrong. I think we should just agree to disagree at this point because we're not making any more progress on the subject. Sound good?

No, no. We're not going to agree to disagree because there should be nothing to disagree about. If you did one iota of research, or watched one documentary on video game history, you'd see that the N64 played a huge role in changing the way games have been made. My speculation regards what may or may not have been created in an alternate history, but I do not "speculate" what ACTUALLY HAPPENED. And guess what? The N64 happened, and it was a big deal. Ironically, you seem to think I'm some die-hard N64 fan when I haven't even played one in quite a long time. I do love the console, but I'm hardly a fanboy. In fact, I generally hate Nintendo. I'm just telling you how it is, because it is. Now we're done.

PS: Here's an article for your perusing. Mind you, this is only about ONE of the revolutionary features of the N64. You know, the analog stick. Which you probably take for granted but wouldn't be using were it not the N64. Lol.... "not a big impact". Uhg...Scrubs.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/09/24/nintendo-64-launching-a-legacy

@jasean79:

Nothing says stick it to 'em like a gif made by someone else.

Peace.

@mwright469:

You need help, bro. Seriously.

The Genesis came out a full two years before the SNES. Of course the latter would be more powerful. The 3DO came out in 1993 and it smoked the SNES.

I'm not sure how many here actually lived through the Genesis era. But, back then, I recall it was the console of choice for sports games. Most jocks I knew who had a console had a Genesis. The SNES tended to be the favorite for platformers.

Plus, in fighting games such as MK, the Genesis was uncensored, hence plenty of blood and guts. Nintendo tended to keep that happy family image and kept their games clean.

Those who actually experienced the era would say the same thing.

Edit:

The Genesis was the "bro gamer" console of its time.

@mwright469:

You already sunk there when you claimed the N64 was the greatest system of the 90's. lol I can see this really bothers you, trying to prove I'm wrong and you're right, which at this point is more funny than anything since I've been trolling you for the past 4 replies now. lmao