One year later: Twilight Princess

I remember the controversy that came about with the whole 8.8 deal, and I admit to being surprised and ticked off at that number as well. So almost a year later, I've played through the game 100% and decide to check out the review again.

And I feel that the score was completely justified in the end. Twilight Princess is a "Great" game, but it could have been so much more.

The main complaint that the game was too familiar for it's own good definately rings true. The game simply lacked a lot of the surprise and delight I felt frome experiencing the worlds in OoT. And even the Wind Waker was stronger in this feeling of freshness, thanks to the unique and charming art style.

I can't vouch for controls since I played the Gamecube version, but overall the game felt structured almost exactly like OoT. The dungeons were excellent and definately the strongest area of the entire game, but again they religiously followed the elemental theme.

I also felt the story could've been improved.Despite the massive size of the game, I actually felt that the story lacked in epicnesscompared toOoT or WW. I dunno, but that's how I feel.

So while many other reviews praised this game to heaven, Gamespot 8.8'd it, and I agree with Gamespot. It's an excellent game, but I don't think it'll be remembered as a classic.

afterbeatingthe game and playing both versions, i can say the rating was deserved.

the gamecube scored higher becuase of the crappy sound coming out of the wii-mote, if i reviewed it, i would have taken off 2 or 3 points, not 1. it really does sound like crap.

Well i recently got my Wii, and the first game i played was TP. This was my first 3d zelda so my experience was probably less stale. My main gripes with the game were the music,saving system, and some camera issues. Besides that there is one more reason why i feel that it didn't deserve 9/10. That reason is

Twilight Princess? That game I played and beat earlier this year and then forgot about?

It was a good game, but unlike Ocarina of Time or The Wind Waker, I don't imagine myself replaying it any time soon.

One year later TP is still one of the greatest games ever made and the GS review is fine for some but everyone else got it right, Zelda: TP is not just an excellent game, its one of the best ever. I dont know what weird world GS lives in where games like Zelda: TP apparently get made all the time, yeah I always see those 50+ hour adventures that are expertly paced with some of the best level design in all of gaming, with constant new items, excellent boss fights, just overall a gameplay experience that is unmatched, where are they, cause I dont see them.

dvader654

Hmm i could swear that i just posted a picture of Okami's cover. Okami>>>Zelda:TP

The game is great and I enjoyed it on GC but if I were to have invested in a Wii for it, I would have been disappointment. It doesn't do anything new to the series and follow the Wii's philosophy of changing gaming. It's a last gen game that should have came out way earlier than it did.

At the time I agreed with the review and I still do.

Twilight Princess? That game I played and beat earlier this year and then forgot about?

It was a good game, but unlike Ocarina of Time or The Wind Waker, I don't imagine myself replaying it any time soon.

LordAndrew

Agreed. Twilight Princess is almost too long for its own good. I thought about replaying it but the prospect of going through that painfully long intro sequence, the fetch quests, and what almost amounts to too many dungeons...I don't think I could bear all that.

This always happens with Zelda. First everyone loves it. Than everyone bashes it. The next Zelda is released and than you all be loving the previous one again.

This happened to Majora's Mask and the same thing happened to Windwaker. The same thing will probably happen to Twilight Princess. I remember how Windwaker was bashed, and now everyone likes it.

One year later TP is still one of the greatest games ever made and the GS review is fine for some but everyone else got it right, Zelda: TP is not just an excellent game, its one of the best ever. I dont know what weird world GS lives in where games like Zelda: TP apparently get made all the time, yeah I always see those 50+ hour adventures that are expertly paced with some of the best level design in all of gaming, with constant new items, excellent boss fights, just overall a gameplay experience that is unmatched, where are they, cause I dont see them.

The biggest complaint toward TP is that its too similar to what is considered the greatest game by many, OoT, what kind of compaint is that? TP is a better game than OoT, better dungeons, better overworld, better paced, better combat, it did most of what OoT and did it better. I would say OoT had better side quests, was more difficult and had better bosses though they were about even. Yes it did feel very familiar overall but that doesn't stop most from loving other big time franchises like Halo, GTA, etc. Everyone just looks at this as a Zelda game, comparing it to other Zelda games, take it out of that boundary and compare it to the rest of the games in the genre, this game makes everyone else look lazy in comparision, it is so much better than most games out there.

dvader654

Most franchises evolve but Zelda has not. The combat alone is some of the worst I've ever played in a supposedly AA or AAA game. That type of stiff, dull hack n' slash was maybe acceptable 10 years ago but not this day and age.

It's cool that you love the game as much as you do but your passion doesn't negate the glaring problems that come with playing atitle that uses 10 year-old mechanics. Zelda:TP doesn't really shine in any one area and rather just manages to be decent with everything it does.

One year later, I still think the score is ridiculous and I still think that Twilight Princess is one of the finest games ever made. I remember Nintendo fans asking for a "modern" Ocarina of Time for years and when they finally got it they disapproved of it for being "not different enough" when previously they disliked Windwaker for being too "different". But I will admit the waggle has definately worn off though.

Exactly. Twilight Princess brought nothing new to the Zelda series. I'm a Zelda fanboy, but ever since finishing TP, I've been praying that Nintendo will mix up the formula next time. The series is getting stale, and for me, TP was the first major indicator of that.RyanWare

It's been told since as early as 2005 that Twilight Princess was going to be the last console Zelda as we know it.

With this and Super Mario Galaxy, it seems that Nintendo is listening to the constant complaints of how they don't change their franchises enough.

One year later TP is still one of the greatest games ever made and the GS review is fine for some but everyone else got it right, Zelda: TP is not just an excellent game, its one of the best ever. I dont know what weird world GS lives in where games like Zelda: TP apparently get made all the time, yeah I always see those 50+ hour adventures that are expertly paced with some of the best level design in all of gaming, with constant new items, excellent boss fights, just overall a gameplay experience that is unmatched, where are they, cause I dont see them.

The biggest complaint toward TP is that its too similar to what is considered the greatest game by many, OoT, what kind of compaint is that? TP is a better game than OoT, better dungeons, better overworld, better paced, better combat, it did most of what OoT and did it better. I would say OoT had better side quests, was more difficult and had better bosses though they were about even. Yes it did feel very familiar overall but that doesn't stop most from loving other big time franchises like Halo, GTA, etc. Everyone just looks at this as a Zelda game, comparing it to other Zelda games, take it out of that boundary and compare it to the rest of the games in the genre, this game makes everyone else look lazy in comparision, it is so much better than most games out there.

dvader654

You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth Dvader. I don't see people nagging GTA, Call of Duty, Guitar Hero (though we will soon), and others for being too similar to their predecessors yet Zelda does. Not only that but they were similar to games that came out a couple years or even a year ago, the game Twilight Princess was similar to came out 8 years ago on last gen tech.

Most franchises evolve but Zelda has not. The combat alone is some of the worst I've ever played in a supposedly AA or AAA game. That type of stiff, dull hack n' slash was maybe acceptable 10 years ago but not this day and age.

It's cool that you love the game as much as you do but your passion doesn't negate the glaring problems that come with playing atitle that uses 10 year-old mechanics. Zelda:TP doesn't really shine in any one area and rather just manages to be decent with everything it does.

Grammaton-Cleric

Well Grand Theft Auto has some of the worse gunplay and combat ever seen in a game yet it constantly gets praised, and don't even get me started on Oblivion. Obviously though those games were never suppose to have great combat systems and neither has Zelda, as for excelling at something, Twilight Princess shines in terms of the dungeon designs and puzzles.

[QUOTE="dvader654"]

One year later TP is still one of the greatest games ever made and the GS review is fine for some but everyone else got it right, Zelda: TP is not just an excellent game, its one of the best ever. I dont know what weird world GS lives in where games like Zelda: TP apparently get made all the time, yeah I always see those 50+ hour adventures that are expertly paced with some of the best level design in all of gaming, with constant new items, excellent boss fights, just overall a gameplay experience that is unmatched, where are they, cause I dont see them.

The biggest complaint toward TP is that its too similar to what is considered the greatest game by many, OoT, what kind of compaint is that? TP is a better game than OoT, better dungeons, better overworld, better paced, better combat, it did most of what OoT and did it better. I would say OoT had better side quests, was more difficult and had better bosses though they were about even. Yes it did feel very familiar overall but that doesn't stop most from loving other big time franchises like Halo, GTA, etc. Everyone just looks at this as a Zelda game, comparing it to other Zelda games, take it out of that boundary and compare it to the rest of the games in the genre, this game makes everyone else look lazy in comparision, it is so much better than most games out there.

Grammaton-Cleric

Most franchises evolve but Zelda has not. The combat alone is some of the worst I've ever played in a supposedly AA or AAA game. That type of stiff, dull hack n' slash was maybe acceptable 10 years ago but not this day and age.

It's cool that you love the game as much as you do but your passion doesn't negate the glaring problems that come with playing atitle that uses 10 year-old mechanics. Zelda:TP doesn't really shine in any one area and rather just manages to be decent with everything it does.

the combat is about as deep as oblivion's run-in-circles-and-slash-ftw combat. the combat was never the focus of zelda anyway. its the puzzles. and using the items to defeat bosses or progress trough an area. ill give you the combat could be better but it was never the focal point of zelda.

[QUOTE="Iga_Bobovic"]

This always happens with Zelda. First everyone loves it. Than everyone bashes it. The next Zelda is released and than you all be loving the previous one again.

This happened to Majora's Mask and the same thing happened to Windwaker. The same thing will probably happen to Twilight Princess. I remember how Windwaker was bashed, and now everyone likes it.

dvader654

:lol: Yeah where did all these WW lovers come from?

Pfft, WW wasn't that good. Sure it had it's charm and the non dungon parts were pretty much awesome, however the dungons were seriously lacking and looking at a boat, sailing for 10 minutes before you reach your destination is not my idea of fun.

Edit: And yeah, the combat was a drag. At first it was cool to press A to counter attack, but that wore out fast. In fact I think the combat system in Oot is deeper, there having a shield actually means something and combat requires some skill.

Pfft, WW wasn't that good. Sure it had it's charm and the non dungon parts were pretty much awesome, however the dungons were seriously lacking and looking at a boat sailing for 10 minutes before you reached your destination is not my idea of fun.

kort-nilsen

Ugh the sailing, they kept it in Phantom HourGlass too (which I think has it's ups and downs but still a solid game and I don't get this whole "the game was casualized fiasco". Seems more like it was "handheldilized" to me) and seriously it gets so boring.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Most franchises evolve but Zelda has not. The combat alone is some of the worst I've ever played in a supposedly AA or AAA game. That type of stiff, dull hack n' slash was maybe acceptable 10 years ago but not this day and age.

It's cool that you love the game as much as you do but your passion doesn't negate the glaring problems that come with playing atitle that uses 10 year-old mechanics. Zelda:TP doesn't really shine in any one area and rather just manages to be decent with everything it does.

Gunraidan

Well Grand Theft Auto has some of the worse gunplay and combat ever seen in a game yet it constantly gets praised, and don't even get me started on Oblivion. Obviously though those games were never suppose to have great combat systems and neither has Zelda, as for excelling at something, Twilight Princess shines in terms of the dungeon designs and puzzles.

The gunplay was a tad rough inGTAIII but became more polished over time. Generally speaking, people seemed to like the gunplay in GTA just fine.

The real difference between these two franchises however is that when GTAIV comes out the gunplay will have been overhauled entirely.

Ten years after OOT we are still using auto-jump and the same hack n' slash tedium.

Zelda: TP could hve been and should have been so much more than just a prettier OOT.

the combat is about as deep as oblivion's run-in-circles-and-slash-ftw combat. the combat was never the focus of zelda anyway. its the puzzles. and using the items to defeat bosses or progress trough an area. ill give you the combat could be better but it was never the focal point of zelda.

OneWingedAngeI

It's a shame some of you feel the need to take swipes at other games simply because this franchise has grown stale.

I've been playing the Zelda games since the original so I'm aware of what Zelda is about. Regardless, combat is a significant portion of the game and it flatly sucks. The rest of the game is a collection of uninspired level designs, stiff animations, and some poorly realized ancillary gameplay mechanics.

It's a decent enough game but without the Zelda tag nobody would remeber this game six months after release.

The gunplay was a tad rough inGTAIII but became more polished over time. Generally speaking, people seemed to like the gunplay in GTA just fine.

Grammaton-Cleric

One could say the exact same thing about Twliight Princess. In it you learn many new sword moves like the finishing blow, back swing, etc.

Ten years after OOT we are still using auto-jump and the same hack n' slash tedium.

Zelda: TP could hve been and should have been so much more than just a prettier OOT

Grammaton-Cleric

TP came out 8 years after OoT. That would be like saying how Halo 3 hasn't gone too far apart from the game mechanics of the original Halo which came out 6 years ago.

Yes i agree the combat was very simple but look at other action/adventure games like it, the Okami's, BG&E, Zelda's combat is better. I think a big issue is Nintendo's need to make games so easy a baby can play, if you take away the mountain of health you have you would have a game where the combat was that much more intense. Have you ever done the cave of ordeals, holy crap if the whole game was like that not many would be complaining about the combat. In there it tests your use of all your items, of your block skills, and you will be in danger of dying, the combat system is good, its just never used well in the main game.

I think you guys are looking at it backwards, remove the name Zelda from the title and the praise for this game would be huge. Again how many games offer 50+ hours of solid, excellently designed gameplay, practically none. Its just that it is a Zelda game, you have seen it before so its easy to pick on it.

I agree its time for a change, I think TP is the last of that OoT formula before it starts hurting the overall game. But many act like this game did nothing well, TP mixed the best aspects of the last three Zelda games into one huge game, had the best dungeons the series has ever had, had some of the most exciting story elements that lead to fast paced Zelda game like no other. TP is like the REmake in that it took a formula that isin its last breath and took it to the max and capped it off by making a game that had all the bestelements that made that formula work. The next Zelda game maybe like RE:0 in that it just went too far.

I can kind of see your guys view is what bugs me is that so much weight is placed on the fact that its simliar its like you guys forget to look at how well designed this game is. I'm sorry but I will take an old formula that works over something fresh that just is not as fun, case in point Phantom Hourglass. There you go a different Zelda, wow its fresh and unique... but it stripped away so much of what makesa Zelda game great that its just like any other game out there, for the first time in years I was bored of a Zelda game.

dvader654

Yep.

Twilight Princess is the pinnacle of the Zelda experience in many ways, yet it also suffers from quite a few shortcomings that hold it back from being a true classic. Enemies barely hurt you, there's not much to do outside the storyline, the MIDI music is underwhelming, nothing worth buying with all those rupees so no real rewards for doing anything out of the way. It feels too derived and limited at times, and parts of the game that were supposed to be emotional did nothing for me. There is plenty of room for improvement and it's not deserving of a 10 or even a low 9 in my book, so GS got it right.

Yet it's still a great game full of fan service, excellent level design, wow moments, cinematic direction and patented Zelda charm. Everyone that is slightly interested in Zelda should probably play it.

But it's time to put the OoT formula to bed, or at least switch things up a bit. The Zelda series is in need of a Mario Galaxy-like reinvention IMO. Wind Waker+Twilight Princess are a great complimentary package for the Gamecube-era, but one is not that much better than the other to me. In fact I probably put more time and got more enjoyment out of Wind Waker because there was so much more to do.

The more I see of Assassin's Creed, the more I feel that's the direction Zelda needs to move towards. I can just picture Link as Altair, scaling cathedral walls and riding Epona through gorgeous sandbox environments. I have faith Nintendo can deliver whatever it ends up being, even if it takes them until the end of the Wii's cycle to do it.

Twilight Princess is the pinnacle of the Zelda experience in many ways, yet it also suffers from quite a few shortcomings that hold it back from being a true classic. There's not much to do outside the storyline, the MIDI music is underwhelming, nothing worth buying with all those rupees, no real rewards for doing anything out of the way. It feels too derived and limited at times, and parts of the game that were supposed to be emotional did nothing for me. There is plenty of room for improvement and it's not deserving of a 10 or even a low 9 in my book, so GS got it right.

Yet it's still a great game full of fan service, excellent level design, wow moments, cinematic direction and patented Zelda charm. Everyone that is slightly interested in Zelda should probably play it.

But it's time to put the OoT formula to bed, or at least switch things up a bit. The Zelda series is in need of a Mario Galaxy-like reinvention IMO. Wind Waker+Twilight Princess are a great complimentary package for the Gamecube-era, but one is not that much better than the other to me. In fact I probably put more time and got more enjoyment out of Wind Waker because there was so much more to do.

The more I see of Assassin's Creed, the more I feel that's the direction Zelda needs to move towards. I can just picture Link as Altair, scaling cathedral walls and riding Epona through gorgeous sandbox environments. I have faith Nintendo can deliver whatever it ends up being, even if it takes them until the end of the Wii's cycle to do it.

viberooni

Well you're in luck.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=60754

After Mario Galaxy I'm begining to trust whatever Nintendo can think of and dish out knowing it will be amazing.

To me TP was a huge disappointment in more ways than I'm willing to spell out here in a forum post. For all the praise Nintendo gets about being innovative they sure know how to play it safe with their old franchises. I've quite simply had enough of pushing blocks onto buttons that open doors, or collecting the boomerang in a dungeon and using that on the boss, or rescuing Zelda from Ganon. Having played games like SotC and Okami previous to TP didn't help either, as it just made the uninspired visuals and midi soundtrack stand out even moreso.

Also porting it to the Wii with the tacked-on motion controls was just tacky, and as an owner of a GameCube (who ended up buying the game on GameCube) it was a slap in the face to have to get the game after everyone was playing it on the Wii.

For me, TP's greatness has not diminished a year later. It's still a fantastic experience. Technically a much better game than Ocarina of Time, though Ocarina retains a much revered spot for me. The only thing I found underwhelming about TP was the soundtrack. Ocarina, Majora, and WW all had great music that stayed with me long after I beat the game... With TP I really don't remember any original music.Heathcliff

That was my biggest gripe about Twilight Princess, among other matters. The audio for the game was so underwhelming compared to rest of the game's design and production that it felt, to me, almost insulting, aside from a few moments throughout the game. Yes, I feel that srongly about the audio work in the game.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

The gunplay was a tad rough inGTAIII but became more polished over time. Generally speaking, people seemed to like the gunplay in GTA just fine.

Gunraidan

One could say the exact same thing about Twliight Princess. In it you learn many new sword moves like the finishing blow, back swing, etc.

Ten years after OOT we are still using auto-jump and the same hack n' slash tedium.

Zelda: TP could hve been and should have been so much more than just a prettier OOT

Grammaton-Cleric

TP came out 8 years after OoT. That would be like saying how Halo 3 hasn't gone too far apart from the game mechanics of the original Halo which came out 6 years ago.

Indeed, complaining about the game mechanics for this game is like complaining about every game released the last 6 years or so. If you are going to complain about TP, find some valid points like:

1.The game is too long for it's own good, resulting in distraction from the story and characters. 2. The characters are not very memorable, and you don't bond with them in any meaningful way. 3. The sound and music is lacking, and remakes of old tunes are actually worse than the orginal. 4. Wolf combat is rather weak. 5. Some of the cinematics are very cliche, making Link look a hero from a hollywood production instead of the down to earth boy we all know and love from Oot and other zelda games. 6. Midna has some kind of voice while others don't, making the game seem rather inconsistent. 7. The first few hours are a drag.

I'm sure you could find more and better examples like these.

[QUOTE="viberooni"]

But it's time to put the OoT formula to bed, or at least switch things up a bit. The Zelda series is in need of a Mario Galaxy-like reinvention IMO.

dvader654

Isnt Mario Galaxy just taking Mario back to what made it so great in the SMB 3/SMW days. I personally dont see it as a reinvention, you still are just running and jumping, its just that the formula worked so why change it. ;)

Point taken, it is still another platformer at heart and the formula is on full display.

I've only played it at a kiosk, but the gist of the GS review for Galaxy tells me the game is great not just because it's a culmination of all things Mario but because of the gravity/perspective hook, unique appoach to level design, and the variety (and difficulty) of challenges on display. It's not just Mario 64 with better graphics and presentation, which would still probably be excellent but maybe not on the level Galaxy seems to be at. Kind of like how NSMB was for DS. Great and polished, but nothing mind blowing. I want a mind blowing Zelda damnit! :)

The series does reuse the same plot over and over but who cares about the plot of a Zelda game really. In terems of everything else, yes all Zelda games follow the same underlining gameplay rules the series has had, but that is the same as every single franchise out there, they all play with the same ground rules. All Halo games play alike, all GTA games play alike, all Ratchet games play alike, all DMC games play alike, castlevania, god of war, gran turismo, mario, sonic, you name a franchise and most of the times all games in that franchise follow the same base gameplay elements, Zelda is no different.

What makes each game different is what you do with those mechanics and Zelda is a franchise that mixes it up better than almost any. Look at the huge difference from OoT to MM, or MM to WW, all extremely different from the last, totally different themes, different environments, different gameplay elements added. Whats funny, MM and WW get criticized for being too different than OoT, so nintendo makes TP the ultimate homage to OoT and then people criticize it for being too similar to OoT.

Every single franchise sticks to its basic formula, RE is one of the few to actually reinvent itself, that does not happen often. Zelda does more than most franchises to make each game very different and unique compared to the last.

dvader654

...

Indeed, complaining about the game mechanics for this game is like complaining about every game released the last 6 years or so. If you are going to complain about TP, find some valid points like:

1.The game is too long for it's own good, resulting in distraction from the story and characters.kort-nilsen

I disagree I love long games, especially when games nowadays are like what 8 hours longs?

2. The characters are not very memorable, and you don't bond with them in any meaningful way.kort-nilsen

Yes and no, I got attached to some and didn't to others. That's how it was to me in many Zeldas though.

3. The sound and music is lacking, and remakes of old tunes are actually worse than the orginal.kort-nilsen

Well they weren't worse, but I completly agree the tunes were just reused and compressed resulting in low quality and less catchyness.

4. Wolf combat is rather weak.kort-nilsen

True.

5. Some of the cinematics are very cliche, making Link look a hero from a hollywood production instead of the down to earth boy we all know and love from Oot and other zelda games.kort-nilsen

Ehh don't see what you're saying but I've heard this complaint before.

6. Midna has some kind of voice while others don't, making the game seem rather inconsistent.kort-nilsen

Nope I love her voice. :)

7. The first few hours are a drag.kort-nilsen

True, it takes a while just to get to the first dungeon if I'm not mistaken.

I'm sure you could find more and better examples like these.

kort-nilsen

Probably, anyway you made some good points. :)

[QUOTE="kort-nilsen"]6. Midna has some kind of voice while others don't, making the game seem rather inconsistent.Gunraidan

Nope I love her voice. :)

[QUOTE="Gunraidan"]

[QUOTE="kort-nilsen"]6. Midna has some kind of voice while others don't, making the game seem rather inconsistent.Skylock00

Nope I love her voice. :)

Not just the voice. Midna was a better developed character than most secondary characters in previous Zeldas. She had a sarcastic sense of humour that went beyond what we'd seen before (in Tetra, for example) and her personal story had more resonance than that of any other supporting character before her.

GS review score for Zelda TP is still off the mark, IMO. Zelda TP is a fantastic game and it deserved a 9.0 at least (same with MP3). I've spent nearly 100 hours playing it, and I still go back to it occasionally just for fun. That being said, I do prefer Zelda WW more. I absolutely loved the art style and humor that WW had.

I do hope Nintendo really changes things up for the next Zelda game, though; it's become a little to formulaic, and needs something new to freshen it up abit. Perhaps they could go with a similar style as Zelda II: Adventure of Link with hit points, Eperiance level increases, various magic potions, and a seriously hard difficulty setting. Ah, one can dream. . .