Remember Konami and SE said 'PS3 price after cut is still too high'?

[QUOTE="jedigemini"][QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]Advertising does matter if it makes an interested audience aware of a product, but it doesn't create demand. One won't convince people who have no interest in a product to buy a product merely because one puts it one tv (advertising Saw 2 didn't cause people with no stomach for such material to run to the theaters). No traditional game on the Wii has put up the type of numbers that would convince anyone that a big, expensive tv ad campaign could pay off.

CarnageHeart

I don't know where you're going with this...my guess is no where... just some after-math backpedaling after your usual unsubstantiated anti-Nintendo spin that backfired once more when you mistakingly claimed that RE4 Wii editions sales were low because you thought they hadn't passed 250 k worldwide (which still would be impressive fyi).

Skylock sought to excuse RE4's sales by stating it wasn't advertised on tv enough, I pointed out that advertising doesn't create demand only awareness (which may or may not lead to demand) , you replied that trillions are spent on advertising, I supported my claim with concrete examples, and thus we arrived here.

400K is better than 250K but still not as good as RE4 would have done on a system with a larger base of hardcore gamers such as the X360.

400 k... in less than 2 months... for a virtually unadvertised port... of a 2 year old game?

Do you inhabit some kind of strange dimension where everything Nintendo is wrong and everything not Nintendo is right?

btw ;)...

... you are aware that RE4 Wii edition has sold so well that Capcom raised their income forecast because they were caught off gaurd by its success?

http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/Resident_Evil_4_For_Wii_Increases_Capcom_Results_11939_6573_0.htm

... oh and your claim that it would have sold better on the 360 is completely unsubstantiated.

I try not to work off assumed sales (European sales figures are kind of hard to come by).

CarnageHeart

In that case, perhaps "global" was the wrong word for you to use. I think most would agree, however, that combined sales of even 100,000 units in the territories I mentioned is a rather conservative estimate to make, considering the fact that Biohazard 4 Wii Edition has sold more than that in Japan alone.

I'm certainly not saying that an X360 version of RE4 couldn't have been even more successful, but the Wii Edition is selling quite well on a system that currently has a smaller userbase. Capcom predicted that the game would sell 420,000 copies worldwide throughout this fiscal year. With 7 months to go, it has already passed that mark, and will likely be one of the company's best-selling titles for the year. Personally, I think it would be foolish to expect such a game to move as many units as brand new, heavily-advertised projects such as Dead Rising and Lost Planet, no matter what platform it was released for.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

I try not to work off assumed sales (European sales figures are kind of hard to come by).

Progenitor

In that case, perhaps "global" was the wrong word for you to use. I think most would agree, however, that combined sales of even 100,000 units in the territories I mentioned is a rather conservative estimate to make, considering the fact that Biohazard 4 Wii Edition has sold more than that in Japan alone.

I'm certainly not saying that an X360 version of RE4 couldn't have been even more successful, but the Wii Edition is selling quite well on a system that currently has a smaller userbase. Capcom predicted that the game would sell 420,000 copies worldwide throughout this fiscal year. With 7 months to go, it has already passed that mark, and will likely be one of the company's best-selling titles for the year. Personally, I think it would be foolish to expect such a game to move as many units as brand new, heavily-advertised projects such as Dead Rising and Lost Planet, no matter what platform it was released for.

I think a lot of the draw of RE4 Wii edition was being able to play the game with the Wiimote, something a 360 version obviously would have.

"Excuse" RE4's sales? :|

400 k... in less than 2 months... for a virtually unadvertised port... of a 2 year old game?

Do you inhabit some kind of strange dimension where everything Nintendo is wrong and everything not Nintendo is right?

btw ;)...

... you are aware that RE4 Wii edition has sold so well that Capcom raised their income forecast because they were caught off gaurd by its success?

http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/Resident_Evil_4_For_Wii_Increases_Capcom_Results_11939_6573_0.htm

... oh and your claim that it would have sold better on the 360 is completely unsubstantiated.

jedigemini

Its funny but unsurprising you ignored the fact that Capcom's conference call also cited Phoenix Wright (500K)and Monster Hunter 2 (which sold a million+ units) as reasons for the increase and attribute the jump solely to RE4. Also, RE4 hit Japan 4 months ago, not 2. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

Its funny but unsurprising you ignored the fact that Capcom's conference call also cited Phoenix Wright (500K)and Monster Hunter 2 (which sold a million+ units) as reasons for the increase and attribute the jump solely to RE4. Also, RE4 hit Japan 4 months ago, not 2. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

CarnageHeart

RE4 Wii edition has been available worldwide for less than two months (the fact that it was released in japan beforehand is of little significance to its current sales position).

... and I wasn't aware that we were discussing Monster Hunter's or Phoenix Wright's sales so I didn't feel compelled to mention them. All of the data necessary to make your own conclusions was available in the link I provided for you, and rather than trying to tackle the losing argument your currently involved in, I'm equally unsurprised to see you taking the easy way out by trying to use these percieved inadequacies in my argument as reasons to discredit me.

RE4 Wii editions sales were at least partially responsible for Capcoms surprise increase in revenues (not to mention that it's actually the focal point of the article).

You're right though, everybody is entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts... and the fact is that RE4 Wii editions sales have been extremely impressive by any measure... regardless of your... ummm... opinion.

I'm still half expecting konami to announce a 360 port of MGS4. Sony really needs to get their act together, and fast.

Also, RE4 hit Japan 4 months ago, not 2. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

CarnageHeart

Actually, Biohazard 4 Wii Edition was released in Japan on 5/31/07, so you were both incorrect. No offense, but I think you should have your facts straight before calling others out.

I don't expect MGS4 to be proted. Especially after some Konami people saying it isn't, Kojima himself saying it isn't (Kojima didn't make that joke, Ken did). Also someone told me that Kazumi isn't even in the video game system department. If that's true, his word really doesn't matter. Especially since Kojima productions is Japanese and not NA or Europe. Kojima also is in board of directors so he has a say if it goes. For those say that it would sell better if put multi plat. No duh. Any game could. However look at their history. They made MGS: Twin snakes for GC only, even though GC was the worst selling console. MGS2 didn't sell well on the 360 either.

As for FF13. Take this into consideration: Look at the record of Square enix and they have a 20+ year record of not straight out lieing to the public. i'll take their word for it. Especially if Nomura is commenting that he prefers the PS3 over 360 so he ca make bigger games.

400K is better than 250K but still not as good as RE4 would have done on a system with a larger base of hardcore gamers such as the X360.

CarnageHeart

[QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

So, now that we see evidence that, even with a big price cut, the PS3 has not gotten out of 3rd place in the next gen race and the install base is only growing slightly (hey, I'm just being honest), what are the realistic responses that are likely on the table for both 3rd party publishers?

Dire_Weasel

Hey, I'm not making any predictions or anything. I'm just saying to take a look at the sequence of events, the statements that were made and to what conclusions could they lead to.

I'm a satisfied owner of a 360. Last gen I owned all 3 so I don't have a manufacturer preference (its all silliness to me). While I'm not really into FF anymore, I do want to play MGS4. But the price of the PS3 is just still too high for me.

That statement should be interesting because it is exactly in line with what was stated by two high ranking individuals in Konami's and SE's organizations. And, as was stated earlier, the public too is saying that $500 is still too high even though the console sold somewhat better.

Again, if you are them and have invested untold millions (seriously, I mean look how much LAST GEN'S versions of these games cost) in two games that are expected to make up a large portion of your company's revenues, how would you feel if the console the games are exclusively planned for release on is just not selling near enough for you to likely reach your projected profit margins .......... ?

a lot of people say that the ps3 doesn't have a big install base but neither does the 360. After almost two years ms only has about 10 million sold world wide. i remember back in december ms was gloating about the 360 having 10 million sold. 6 months later it was 11.6 shipped which they called sold. Thats not very impressive. 360 has only been selling well in the us. Ps3 sells everywhere not just one region. yes its not impressive but with no games and a high price thats pretty good. europe is anyones game but i heard the ps3 is outselling it there too. jessie5788

I think you forgot the part where 360 owners buy a butt-load of games. That is more important than the size of the install base in this case...

[QUOTE="jessie5788"]a lot of people say that the ps3 doesn't have a big install base but neither does the 360. After almost two years ms only has about 10 million sold world wide. i remember back in december ms was gloating about the 360 having 10 million sold. 6 months later it was 11.6 shipped which they called sold. Thats not very impressive. 360 has only been selling well in the us. Ps3 sells everywhere not just one region. yes its not impressive but with no games and a high price thats pretty good. europe is anyones game but i heard the ps3 is outselling it there too. AtomicTangerine

I think you forgot the part where 360 owners buy a butt-load of games. That is more important than the size of the install base in this case...

most people talk about install base for games going to a different console. but that could work too. but will they buy them is the question. 360 and ps3 both have a different crowd

...the Wii's user base is now larger than the 360's according to VGchartz and more accurately Neogaf.

jedigemini

You are apparently correct, but, going by NeoGAF's data, the Wii is still behind the Xbox 360 in the US, Canada, Europe and Australia. CarnageHeart probably doesn't think that an X360 release of 4 would have sold better than the Wii version in Japan, so whether or not those 3,424,139 Japanese Wiis are enough to put Nintendo's latest console ahead of Microsoft's on a global level is somewhat irrelevant in this case.

it being at silly buggers price i'm surprised at there are PS3 exclusives that are coming out i see the PS3 being a flop.

360 may have its hardware problems but microsoft are sorting that out but at least more than six people in the world have one.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Its funny but unsurprising you ignored the fact that Capcom's conference call also cited Phoenix Wright (500K)and Monster Hunter 2 (which sold a million+ units) as reasons for the increase and attribute the jump solely to RE4. Also, RE4 hit Japan 4 months ago, not 2. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

jedigemini

RE4 Wii edition has been available worldwide for less than two months (the fact that it was released in japan beforehand is of little significance to its current sales position).

... and I wasn't aware that we were discussing Monster Hunter's or Phoenix Wright's sales so I didn't feel compelled to mention them. All of the data necessary to make your own conclusions was available in the link I provided for you, and rather than trying to tackle the losing argument your currently involved in, I'm equally unsurprised to see you taking the easy way out by trying to use these percieved inadequacies in my argument as reasons to discredit me.

RE4 Wii editions sales were at least partially responsible for Capcoms surprise increase in revenues (not to mention that it's actually the focal point of the article).

You're right though, everybody is entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts... and the fact is that RE4 Wii editions sales have been extremely impressive by any measure... regardless of your... ummm... opinion.

That is a fascinating excuse and a big step back from your initial statement. As for your weird claim that RE4 was the focal point of the article means something, I would have thought that being the focal point of Capcom's revenue gains was more significant. But if being the focal point of an article is good enough for you, so be it.

[QUOTE="AtomicTangerine"]

[QUOTE="jessie5788"]a lot of people say that the ps3 doesn't have a big install base but neither does the 360. After almost two years ms only has about 10 million sold world wide. i remember back in december ms was gloating about the 360 having 10 million sold. 6 months later it was 11.6 shipped which they called sold. Thats not very impressive. 360 has only been selling well in the us. Ps3 sells everywhere not just one region. yes its not impressive but with no games and a high price thats pretty good. europe is anyones game but i heard the ps3 is outselling it there too. jessie5788

I think you forgot the part where 360 owners buy a butt-load of games. That is more important than the size of the install base in this case...

most people talk about install base for games going to a different console. but that could work too. but will they buy them is the question. 360 and ps3 both have a different crowd

I don't know about that. I'd say the PS2 and the Xbox appealed to different crowds, but MS and Sony seem to be trying to eat into the markets the other dominated last gen this gen. The X360 has had more jrpgs announced for it than the PS3 has (everybody not named Level 5 is working on an X360 rpg) and Sony's biggest game at this stage in the game is a first person shooter, they clearly have thrown a ton of money behind the upcoming Killzone, and they puchased windows of exclusivity for Unreal Tournmant 3 and Haze.

I don't expect MGS4 to be proted. Especially after some Konami people saying it isn't, Kojima himself saying it isn't (Kojima didn't make that joke, Ken did). Also someone told me that Kazumi isn't even in the video game system department. If that's true, his word really doesn't matter. Especially since Kojima productions is Japanese and not NA or Europe. Kojima also is in board of directors so he has a say if it goes. For those say that it would sell better if put multi plat. No duh. Any game could. However look at their history. They made MGS: Twin snakes for GC only, even though GC was the worst selling console. MGS2 didn't sell well on the 360 either.

As for FF13. Take this into consideration: Look at the record of Square enix and they have a 20+ year record of not straight out lieing to the public. i'll take their word for it. Especially if Nomura is commenting that he prefers the PS3 over 360 so he ca make bigger games.

Scarletred

Its true that MGS2 on the Xbox didn't put up the type of numbers which made Kojima feel that the 6 months struggling to port it (as opposed to working on MGS3) was time well spent. Its telling that the next MGS remake was same-system. While Kojima hasbeen open about his dislike of ports (Twin Snakes was an MGS remake coded by Rare)as Mikami and RE4 proved, if the corporation funding the game decides that going multiplatform is a necessary step, it will happen even if that means alienating the programmer who created the game.

As I said in the case of RE4, in such situations I tend to side with the corporation since they are the ones who funded the game. If a guy wants to make a game and own it (thus dictating its fate), he should set up his own company and raise his own capital (kind of like David Jaffe has done).

As for Squenix, they simply aren't the company(ies) they use to be. There are three Final Fantasy 13s in the pipeline, one a cellphone game. That certainly isn't the type of stunt Square or Enix pulled in the old days.

I'm not saying either port is bound to happen, but lots of Japanese developers are going multiplatform and making that other platform the X360, so it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyone using the MGS2: Substance XBOX port as a means to argue why MGS4 would be a poor fit on the X360 or why it shouldn't be ported, or wouldn't sell, isn't putting up an honest argument.

How many XBOX owners at that time had actually played a Metal Gear game? Not many. You can't possibly convince me that all X360 owners are merely XBOX owners from last gen. The circumstances with the userbase have radically shifted.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

400K is better than 250K but still not as good as RE4 would have done on a system with a larger base of hardcore gamers such as the X360.

Dire_Weasel

Larger user base doesn't automatically mean more sales, PS2's 100 million plus userbase proved that time and again last gen. It depends on the tastes of said userbase, which is why despite the larger Wii userbase, Madden is now and will continue to sell better on the 360.

[QUOTE="jedigemini"][QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Its funny but unsurprising you ignored the fact that Capcom's conference call also cited Phoenix Wright (500K)and Monster Hunter 2 (which sold a million+ units) as reasons for the increase and attribute the jump solely to RE4. Also, RE4 hit Japan 4 months ago, not 2. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts.

CarnageHeart

RE4 Wii edition has been available worldwide for less than two months (the fact that it was released in japan beforehand is of little significance to its current sales position).

... and I wasn't aware that we were discussing Monster Hunter's or Phoenix Wright's sales so I didn't feel compelled to mention them. All of the data necessary to make your own conclusions was available in the link I provided for you, and rather than trying to tackle the losing argument your currently involved in, I'm equally unsurprised to see you taking the easy way out by trying to use these percieved inadequacies in my argument as reasons to discredit me.

RE4 Wii editions sales were at least partially responsible for Capcoms surprise increase in revenues (not to mention that it's actually the focal point of the article).

You're right though, everybody is entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts... and the fact is that RE4 Wii editions sales have been extremely impressive by any measure... regardless of your... ummm... opinion.

That is a fascinating excuse and a big step back from your initial statement. As for your weird claim that RE4 was the focal point of the article means something, I would have thought that being the focal point of Capcom's revenue gains was more significant. But if being the focal point of an article is good enough for you, so be it.

Back to the topic at hand (the one we were having before all your damage control)... RE4 Wii edition selling 400 k so far is an impressive feat regardless of your opinion, which coincidently nobody else seems to agree with.... and by the looks of Capcom's revised financial forecast, niether do they ;)