Saints Row 3 - what do you want?

saints row 3:

1.what improvements do you want from the game?

2.what things need to remain from SR2?

3.what sort of story do you want?

1.in SR3 im hoping that they will update the graphics a fair bit, i didn't have a problem with the state of SR2 i just want more...there's not much else that needs to be improved, but a bigger arsenal with more outlandish weapons would be great and i would prefer a bigger world, maybe the ability to go to other cities and expand saints row even more. it would also be good, but not necessary for them to expand the play time with more missions, or make the missions longer.

2.one thing that needs to remain of coarse is the random glitches...the ones where random pedestrians get trapped under your wheels, or inside your car with the best way of getting them out being doing a power-slide and flinging them across the street. its these random occurrences that made SR2 so great...along with the random fights that break out for no reason. obviously the cockney voice is something that has to remain.

3.i want the story to go into even more depth and be a little darker, but still keep all the humour, and i would prefer there not to be any deaths of players i grow to like...the death of Carlos was one of my worst video game moments of all time...i knew it was coming, i actually got closer to the tv, willing there to be a way to save him...:cry:

the questions are just some i made up on the spot, feel free to just write anything about SR3 or even SR2, im not that bothered

I want there not to be a saints row 3.

I just thought saints row was a terrible game. :)

Better graphics...

way better driving thats what i want, also i want better graphics and a better multiplayer feature

Here are the things I want from Saints Row 3.

1. New Game +

I hate it how games gives you cool stuff at the end of the game and have no place to use it. Let me start the game over so there are some conflicts in the game for me to use those cool stuff.

2. Difference between male and female characters.

Saints Row 2 does good job with it by making the story gender neutral and support it with great acting, but I'd like story to branch it a little by making it gender specific. Love interest, prositution, way to solve conflict, whether enemy wants you dead (if you're male) or force you into the bed (if you are female), etc. Also gender specific side quests.

I can't think of anything else right now. I'll add more when I do.

More of the same but better is what I want for the sequel to one of the best games of the generation. Seriously, there wasn't alot wrong with SR2 imo. It was amazing. I'd say the story missions could be alot better though. What they need to do is look at the best missions in GTA San Andreas, and to a lesser extent Vice City for inspiration. Also a few of the missions for GTA IV as well, most notably the bank robbery mission. To be honest unlike the GTA games there weren't many missions in Saints Row 2 that made me say "Wow this is so freaking awesome!" As far as the side missions go they've already got the right idea and the structure for these is perfect imo. Come up with some more crazy fun ideas for new activities whilst improving upon the ones from saints row 2, much like sr2 did with the acticities from sr1. Do the same with new diversions.

Also a new location is a must. They absolutely cannot go back to stilwater again. I want a game like San Andreas, where you've got several different cities in the game. I also want some big open areas like the countryside and desert in San Andreas. It's just fun to drive around in open areas like that as opposed to being on roads with traffic all the time. I also think the driving controls need to be changed. As far as the button layout goes, GTA IV had the right idea because it was easy to drive and shoot at the same time. As for the way the cars actually control they should be nothing like GTA IV. The driving shouldn't be quite as arcadey as SR2 but also not as realistic and just plain annoying as GTA IV. I felt the older GTA games driving controlled fine, especially San Andreas. I also wouldn't be complaining if the game actually had a good story. Gameplay first but a great story would just be the icing on the cake, much like San Andreas.

So yeah, I basically want San Andreas 2 lol. I want everything good about Saints Row 2 combined with everything good about San Andreas. The thing is, everything bad about San Andreas Saints Row 2 doesn't really have and vice versa imo so if they do this then you've got my favourite game ever made.

• Custom soundtracks
• I loved the brutality of the main character. Make the next main character even more unforgiving.
• Better graphics.
• DO NOT go the way of GTA IV. We don't want realism, we want fun.
• Can we have a little more sex in the game? It is a mature game after all.
• Again, custom soundtracks.

Oh I almost forgot. The wanted system needs a complete revamp. Well not so much the system, but the difficulty as the wanted level gets higher. I can survive pretty much forever on the highest wanted level with ease. That should not be possible without cheating. What the GTA games do well with their wanted levels is add in the "how long can I survive" factor when it comes to the police. Saints Row does not do this at all. If they make the wanted levels more like GTA and make them hard to survive in the game will have even more replayability. We all know how fun it is to just pop in a GTA game every now and then, cause some mayhem and try to evade the police as long as possible. Just causing mayhem forever with no challenge gets old alot quicker.

Oh I almost forgot. The wanted system needs a complete revamp. Well not so much the system, but the difficulty as the wanted level gets higher. I can survive pretty much forever on the highest wanted level with ease. That should not be possible without cheating. What the GTA games do well with their wanted levels is add in the "how long can I survive" factor when it comes to the police. Saints Row does not do this at all. If they make the wanted levels more like GTA and make them hard to survive in the game will have even more replayability. We all know how fun it is to just pop in a GTA game every now and then, cause some mayhem and try to evade the police as long as possible. Just causing mayhem forever with no challenge gets old alot quicker.

burgeg

Better graphics.

MUCH improved driving.

More parody. As long as they're going to make fun of the "Thug 4 Life" crowd they might as well take it even more over the top.

I disagree. I don't like the challenge of the Wanted system in GTA. I actually prefer the one in SR2. I could actually get away from the cops. With a Wanted level of anywhere about 2 in GTA, you were done. There was no way to get away, except for the paint shops in SA. To me, that's not fun. In SR2, I could actually escape and then continue playing the missions and activities. I don't want a "How long can I survive" scenario. I want a "How can I escape" scenario.muthsera666

Seriously? I thought the wanted system in GTA IV was really good. I could get away from the police at any wanted level and I have the achievements to show for it. Learn to drive. :)

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

Oh I almost forgot. The wanted system needs a complete revamp. Well not so much the system, but the difficulty as the wanted level gets higher. I can survive pretty much forever on the highest wanted level with ease. That should not be possible without cheating. What the GTA games do well with their wanted levels is add in the "how long can I survive" factor when it comes to the police. Saints Row does not do this at all. If they make the wanted levels more like GTA and make them hard to survive in the game will have even more replayability. We all know how fun it is to just pop in a GTA game every now and then, cause some mayhem and try to evade the police as long as possible. Just causing mayhem forever with no challenge gets old alot quicker.

muthsera666

The game that does get the "how can I escape" factor right is GTA IV. Now that was a great wanted system. This is a game that had both that and the "how long can I survive" factor. They made it harder to escape the cops as the wanted level got higher and made the cops harder to survive against. I wouldn't be complaining at all if Saints Row 3 copied this system. In fact I'd love it. If you dont want a cop chase you can easily lose your wanted level of 1 or 2 stars within a few seconds and if you want a fun "how long can I survive" or "how can I escape" cop chase on the higher wanted levels you can kill some people and raise your wanted level.

I just thought saints row was a terrible game. :)

scdorrell0422

how can you not like saints row?? no-one can fail to enjoy a game this good, and if saints row 3 only makes half the improvements it could its going to be one of the greatest games ever made...I've already got it down as a first day buy.

[QUOTE="scdorrell0422"]

I just thought saints row was a terrible game. :)

Dr_Manfattan

how can you not like saints row?? no-one can fail to enjoy a game this good, and if saints row 3 only makes half the improvements it could its going to be one of the greatest games ever made...I've already got it down as a first day buy.

[QUOTE="scdorrell0422"]

I just thought saints row was a terrible game. :)

Dr_Manfattan

how can you not like saints row?? no-one can fail to enjoy a game this good, and if saints row 3 only makes half the improvements it could its going to be one of the greatest games ever made...I've already got it down as a first day buy.

I dumpedSR2 soon after purchasing it because I found it to be derivative, ugly, clunky and tired.

By contrast, Volition's Red Faction sequel was infinitely better and actually managed to do something other than poorly rip off GTA.

Here's a question for you. Why would you not want it to be made? It's one thing not liking the game, but why would you not want others to be able to play a game they enjoy? That's like me saying I wish they never made another metal gear solid game, another final fantasy or another call of duty.

Some different game play elements to be added for both genders, maybe the option to be able to customise weapons - not heavily - to where say for example you could learn how to have a shotgun in one hand and a machine gun in the other.

Also an even bigger area to fully explore and have fun in, more silly things to do, even more clothing of all kinds, a height adjustment system since it can be annoying when your character is taller than everyone else.
And no more of these boring and pointless 'GTA or Saint's Row' nonsense. GTA has it's pros and cns, Saint's Row has it's pros and cons. If GTA continues with the realism approach which frankly made GTA4 very boring once you unlocked the full city, then I hope Saint's Row will continue to be as silly and unrealistic as possible so that the sandbox genre can continue to be fun instead of tedious.

R/T

Less bugs. My game keeps freezing up on me after I complete a few missions or it won't load up after the mission is over so I'm stuck staring at a black screen that I can pause. My 360 rarely ever freezes up on me when I play other games, except for Saints Row 2.

Here's a question for you. Why would you not want it to be made? It's one thing not liking the game, but why would you not want others to be able to play a game they enjoy? That's like me saying I wish they never made another metal gear solid game, another final fantasy or another call of duty.

burgeg

Normally I'd agree with you but my problem with the SR franchise is that it did nothing more than ape GTA. There is very little in the game that feels original and while I actually enjoyed the first game the second seemed like a serious step back, especially with the horrible driving mechanics. The whole endeavor feels like a (sort of) next gen San Andreas, which just comes off as tired. That's why I'd rather see Volition, a talented developer, do something more original, like a sandbox game set in the future with a setting similar to BladeRunner or the Syndicate games.

They need to quit trying to outclass or out perform GTA and make their own mark with their own style, similar to what they accomplished with Red Faction.

I'd like my copy not to freeze every two missions.

for Saints Row 3...hmmm...how bout a different setting...after beating both 1 & 2..if someone would turn on a game and start at a random spot..I would have trouble telling the two apart at first..to me the first 2 were nearly identical...also the reputation missions, or so called side quests got kinda annoying..they should scrap the whole idea of building up rep to do missions, and put in actual side quests that feel more like a mission..or a combination of both, but not forcing the player to do any of them...eventually they will have to do it the way of GTA...GTA has similar gameplay between them (recent ones anyway), but at the same time it had enough differences to make it just as, or more, enjoyable than the previous...I liked Saints Row 1 a lot, but when I got 2, it just seemed like an extension of the first, with very little change, and got a little boring half way through..just my opinion I geuss...if they make 3 just like 1 and 2...I might rent it..and if it is set in Stilwater...I won't even look at the back cover...

All I want is for the game to be playable on PC. The PC port was so bad I actually threw the game out. Its a piece of trash for which the studio should be shut down.

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

Here's a question for you. Why would you not want it to be made? It's one thing not liking the game, but why would you not want others to be able to play a game they enjoy? That's like me saying I wish they never made another metal gear solid game, another final fantasy or another call of duty.

Grammaton-Cleric

Normally I'd agree with you but my problem with the SR franchise is that it did nothing more than ape GTA. There is very little in the game that feels original and while I actually enjoyed the first game the second seemed like a serious step back, especially with the horrible driving mechanics. The whole endeavor feels like a (sort of) next gen San Andreas, which just comes off as tired. That's why I'd rather see Volition, a talented developer, do something more original, like a sandbox game set in the future with a setting similar to BladeRunner or the Syndicate games.

They need to quit trying to outclass or out perform GTA and make their own mark with their own style, similar to what they accomplished with Red Faction.

How can the second feel like a step back? It's the same thing but better in just about every way. I'll give you the driving mechanics, but other than that it was undeniably superior in every single way. The shooting was better, the activities were better and there were much more of them, loads of new diversions and random stuff outside the missions were better. The story missions were better, there were more and better vehicles to use, way more fun weapons to choose from, much more unlockables to try and get, it was longer, it was funnier, had a much better soundtrack, cruise control made shooting out of your car while driving easier. There was way more customisation for your character to mess around with including taunts and stuff. It was a better looking game and had co op. Theres also other new features I could mention. Seriously, how in the world is the original better? Thats like saying GTA3 is better than San Andreas.

You could say the same thing about tons of other games out there. Not everything has to be original. There's something to be said for something that uses and improves upon a formula that already works. In fact to be honest thats where the best games usually come from. Sequels are almost always better than the original. Why? Because most of the time they just use the same formula whilst making improvements. If every game had to come up with an original concept Rockstar would have ended the GTA series at GTA3. I think of Saints Row 1 and 2 as GTA games. There's no question Saints Row 1 shamelessly copied GTA, but is that really a bad thing? There should be more games like GTA out there. Naughty dog shamelessly copied Nintendos Mario Kart when they created Crash Team Racing for the PS1, but in doing that they created the best kart racer ever made by improving upon an already existing formula. Saints Row has done a similar thing. I dont think San Andreas has been beaten just yet, but just about every other GTA game has imo and Saints Row 3 just might manage the impossible and dethrone San Andreas.

How can the second feel like a step back? It's the same thing but better in just about every way. I'll give you the driving mechanics, but other than that it was undeniably superior in every single way. The shooting was better, the activities were better and there were much more of them, loads of new diversions and random stuff outside the missions were better. The story missions were better, there were more and better vehicles to use, way more fun weapons to choose from, much more unlockables to try and get, it was longer, it was funnier, had a much better soundtrack, cruise control made shooting out of your car while driving easier. There was way more customisation for your character to mess around with including taunts and stuff. It was a better looking game and had co op. Theres also other new features I could mention. Seriously, how in the world is the original better? Thats like saying GTA3 is better than San Andreas.

burgeg

Well, I hold originality in high regard so I can't really agree that Volition gets a pass because other developers are similarly unoriginal. There's nothing wrong with making an open-word game like GTA but considering how many different themes and settings exist, why go with yet another stale gangsta theme? It's tired and shows that Volition is just being lazy.

As to SR2, the driving alone destroyed the game. As a point of fact, none of the vehicles handled very well and considering that vehicle handing is a huge component of the game, that's a pretty major flaw. As to the combat, it felt incredible shallow, especially after the deliberate and methodical combat of GTAIV. Also, the physics on GTAIV, along with Euphoria, gives everything in that game tangible weight where by contrast everything in SR2, from the cars to the characters, felt like they had no weight at all. SR2 certainly had more variety than GTAIV but even within that variety, it was such a shallow experience that I really can't fathom how it held anybody's interest. The thing that impressed me about GTAIV is that it focused on improving the two main components of the franchise, namely driving and shooting, both of which were executed incredibly well. For me personally, I'd rather have quality and substance versus a heap of mediocre content, which is what I feel SR2 offers.

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

You could say the same thing about tons of other games out there. Not everything has to be original. There's something to be said for something that uses and improves upon a formula that already works. In fact to be honest thats where the best games usually come from. Sequels are almost always better than the original. Why? Because most of the time they just use the same formula whilst making improvements. If every game had to come up with an original concept Rockstar would have ended the GTA series at GTA3. I think of Saints Row 1 and 2 as GTA games. There's no question Saints Row 1 shamelessly copied GTA, but is that really a bad thing? There should be more games like GTA out there. Naughty dog shamelessly copied Nintendos Mario Kart when they created Crash Team Racing for the PS1, but in doing that they created the best kart racer ever made by improving upon an already existing formula. Saints Row has done a similar thing. I dont think San Andreas has been beaten just yet, but just about every other GTA game has imo and Saints Row 3 just might manage the impossible and dethrone San Andreas.

How can the second feel like a step back? It's the same thing but better in just about every way. I'll give you the driving mechanics, but other than that it was undeniably superior in every single way. The shooting was better, the activities were better and there were much more of them, loads of new diversions and random stuff outside the missions were better. The story missions were better, there were more and better vehicles to use, way more fun weapons to choose from, much more unlockables to try and get, it was longer, it was funnier, had a much better soundtrack, cruise control made shooting out of your car while driving easier. There was way more customisation for your character to mess around with including taunts and stuff. It was a better looking game and had co op. Theres also other new features I could mention. Seriously, how in the world is the original better? Thats like saying GTA3 is better than San Andreas.

Grammaton-Cleric

Well, I hold originality in high regard so I can't really agree that Volition gets a pass because other developers are similarly unoriginal. There's nothing wrong with making an open-word game like GTA but considering how many different themes and settings exist, why go with yet another stale gangsta theme? It's tired and shows that Volition is just being lazy.

As to SR2, the driving alone destroyed the game. As a point of fact, none of the vehicles handled very well and considering that vehicle handing is a huge component of the game, that's a pretty major flaw. As to the combat, it felt incredible shallow, especially after the deliberate and methodical combat of GTAIV. Also, the physics on GTAIV, along with Euphoria, gives everything in that game tangible weight where by contrast everything in SR2, from the cars to the characters, felt like they had no weight at all. SR2 certainly had more variety than GTAIV but even within that variety, it was such a shallow experience that I really can't fathom how it held anybody's interest. The thing that impressed me about GTAIV is that it focused on improving the two main components of the franchise, namely driving and shooting, both of which were executed incredibly well. For me personally, I'd rather have quality and substance versus a heap of mediocre content, which is what I feel SR2 offers.

That quality over quantity argument is absolute bull imo. I thought Rockstar dispelled this theory in 2004 when they released the masterpiece that is San Andreas. San Andreas is a game with an incredible amount of content and an incredible amount of quality. It has more quality and more quantity than GTA IV. The best missions in San Andreas are better than the best missions in IV. The best side missions in SA are better than the best ones in GTA IV. The best races are better than the ones in IV. SA has the best weapons, the best vehicles, the better soundtrack despite it being smaller than IV and is just overall a better quality game. The way better quantity only helps there be more quality. Quality beats quantity. Quality and quantity beats quality alone.

Saints Row 2 has better quality than IV in similar ways, though not to the same degree. Saints Row 2 has better quality side missions and is just a better quality game when it comes to just about everything in the singleplayer outside the story missions. It's just a more fun game to play, whereas in GTA IV there was very little fun to be had in the singleplayer outside the main story. Sure it was prettier and the city was more detailed, but I dont really care. I play games to have fun, not to look at how pretty, realistic and detailed it is. Thats where the multiplayer comes in for GTA IV. The mulitplayer rescues GTA IV. It was absolutely outstanding and that combined with the great singleplayer(never said IV didn't have a great single player, it's just lacking in entertainment value compared to San Andreas and Saints Row 2) is what makes it one of the best games of the generation.

For it to not be made........ *Runs*UT_Wrestler

I dont think GTA IVs driving was very good to be honest. Actually it was pretty terrible and even worse than Saints Row 2s, which actually wasn't so bad for the fact driving didn't feel like a chore because you could actually get around easily rather than wrestle with the awful handing like GTA IV.

burgeg

I lost you right there. GTA's cars have always felt like _cars_. I'm a racing game fan, and it can't be something that's that difficult to get right. GTA IV's cars were probably the best in the series, and their motorcycles were actually improved in TLAD.

Saint's Row's got the physics on the automobiles wrong. They feel light, insubstantial, and twitchy, and the center of gravity is way off.

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

I dont think GTA IVs driving was very good to be honest. Actually it was pretty terrible and even worse than Saints Row 2s, which actually wasn't so bad for the fact driving didn't feel like a chore because you could actually get around easily rather than wrestle with the awful handing like GTA IV.

Dire_Weasel

I lost you right there. GTA's cars have always felt like _cars_. I'm a racing game fan, and it can't be something that's that difficult to get right. GTA IV's cars were probably the best in the series, and their motorcycles were actually improved in TLAD.

Saint's Row's got the physics on the automobiles wrong. They feel light, insubstantial, and twitchy, and the center of gravity is way off.

The main problem GTA4 had was the fact that it took the franchise, which was meant to be wacky and out off control and just made it too realistic. What would you rather have when hitting into a pedestrian? gta4, where the body realistically rolled over the roof, or sr2 where it got shot into the sky or randomly fell into your back seat? The whole point of SR is just to have fun, who wants a completely realistic game anyway, i prefer being able to run around in a hot dog suit running over pedestrians in a customized monster truck and smashing into whatever i want, to just going around in pretty boring clothes hitting into a lamppost and flying out of the windscreen. Also i didn't like the fact that getting shot made you put down your phone, that was unnecessary and annoying.

GTA4 was a good GTA game, but compared to San Andreas it was shocking

The main problem GTA4 had was the fact that it took the franchise, which was meant to be wacky and out off control and just made it too realistic. What would you rather have when hitting into a pedestrian? gta4, where the body realistically rolled over the roof, or sr2 where it got shot into the sky or randomly fell into your back seat? The whole point of SR is just to have fun, who wants a completely realistic game anyway, i prefer being able to run around in a hot dog suit running over pedestrians in a customized monster truck and smashing into whatever i want, to just going around in pretty boring clothes hitting into a lamppost and flying out of the windscreen. Also i didn't like the fact that getting shot made you put down your phone, that was unnecessary and annoying.

GTA4 was a good GTA game, but compared to San Andreas it was shocking

Dr_Manfattan

more gang wars :D like ones in crime life gang wars

I dont think GTA IVs driving was very good to be honest. Actually it was pretty terrible and even worse than Saints Row 2s, which actually wasn't so bad for the fact driving didn't feel like a chore because you could actually get around easily rather than wrestle with the awful handing like GTA IV. GTA IV was a great game and I loved it, but the driving sucked. Also having niko shoot out of your car after every crash was freaking annoying. It's cool when it happens the first few times, but it gets old and annoying. The shooting of GTA IV was way better than Saints Row and all the other GTA games. In fact I think that's the single biggest improvement GTA IV made. But shallow combat didn't stop the older GTAs being fun as hell and they certainly dont stop Saints Row 2 from doing the same. Unfortunately for every improvement like this that GTA IV made they made about 5 things worse. Actually I think I'm being a little kind to GTA IV there.

That quality over quantity argument is absolute bull imo. I thought Rockstar dispelled this theory in 2004 when they released the masterpiece that is San Andreas. San Andreas is a game with an incredible amount of content and an incredible amount of quality. It has more quality and more quantity than GTA IV. The best missions in San Andreas are better than the best missions in IV. The best side missions in SA are better than the best ones in GTA IV. The best races are better than the ones in IV. SA has the best weapons, the best vehicles, the better soundtrack despite it being smaller than IV and is just overall a better quality game. The way better quantity only helps there be more quality. Quality beats quantity. Quality and quantity beats quality alone.

Saints Row 2 has better quality than IV in similar ways, though not to the same degree. Saints Row 2 has better quality side missions and is just a better quality game when it comes to just about everything in the singleplayer outside the story missions. It's just a more fun game to play, whereas in GTA IV there was very little fun to be had in the singleplayer outside the main story. Sure it was prettier and the city was more detailed, but I dont really care. I play games to have fun, not to look at how pretty, realistic and detailed it is. Thats where the multiplayer comes in for GTA IV. The mulitplayer rescues GTA IV. It was absolutely outstanding and that combined with the great singleplayer(never said IV didn't have a great single player, it's just lacking in entertainment value compared to San Andreas and Saints Row 2) is what makes it one of the best games of the generation.

burgeg

The very notion that SR2 had better driving is ridiculous in my opinion. Every car in SR2 handles like a box, end of story. None of the vehicles have any viable mass, which makes their interaction with the environment artificial and clunky. The fact that you didn't want to bother to learn the driving mechanics in GTAIV isn't a flaw of the game but rather your own personal inability or unwillingness to evolve along with the franchise. The cars handle in GTAIV the way they do because every aspect of the vehicle mass has been factored into the game so that the cars handle accordingly. That isn't a flaw, that's advancement.

The bottom line is that the GTA franchise has evolved but fans like you don't care about refinements and quality; you just want lots of content and variety even if that variety is mundane. SR2 does very little well but merely tosses in plenty to do in a boring, lifeless world with stiff animations, clunky combatand mechanics. GTAIV was all about pulling back the reigns from GTA:SA and making some sweeping improvements in crucial areas, which is precisely what it accomplished. At some point I expect Rockstar will add larger portions of content, rivaling what they offered in SA but for now I'm content with quality over quantity.

Driving...burgeg

[QUOTE="burgeg"]

I dont think GTA IVs driving was very good to be honest. Actually it was pretty terrible and even worse than Saints Row 2s, which actually wasn't so bad for the fact driving didn't feel like a chore because you could actually get around easily rather than wrestle with the awful handing like GTA IV. GTA IV was a great game and I loved it, but the driving sucked. Also having niko shoot out of your car after every crash was freaking annoying. It's cool when it happens the first few times, but it gets old and annoying. The shooting of GTA IV was way better than Saints Row and all the other GTA games. In fact I think that's the single biggest improvement GTA IV made. But shallow combat didn't stop the older GTAs being fun as hell and they certainly dont stop Saints Row 2 from doing the same. Unfortunately for every improvement like this that GTA IV made they made about 5 things worse. Actually I think I'm being a little kind to GTA IV there.

That quality over quantity argument is absolute bull imo. I thought Rockstar dispelled this theory in 2004 when they released the masterpiece that is San Andreas. San Andreas is a game with an incredible amount of content and an incredible amount of quality. It has more quality and more quantity than GTA IV. The best missions in San Andreas are better than the best missions in IV. The best side missions in SA are better than the best ones in GTA IV. The best races are better than the ones in IV. SA has the best weapons, the best vehicles, the better soundtrack despite it being smaller than IV and is just overall a better quality game. The way better quantity only helps there be more quality. Quality beats quantity. Quality and quantity beats quality alone.

Saints Row 2 has better quality than IV in similar ways, though not to the same degree. Saints Row 2 has better quality side missions and is just a better quality game when it comes to just about everything in the singleplayer outside the story missions. It's just a more fun game to play, whereas in GTA IV there was very little fun to be had in the singleplayer outside the main story. Sure it was prettier and the city was more detailed, but I dont really care. I play games to have fun, not to look at how pretty, realistic and detailed it is. Thats where the multiplayer comes in for GTA IV. The mulitplayer rescues GTA IV. It was absolutely outstanding and that combined with the great singleplayer(never said IV didn't have a great single player, it's just lacking in entertainment value compared to San Andreas and Saints Row 2) is what makes it one of the best games of the generation.

Grammaton-Cleric

The very notion that SR2 had better driving is ridiculous in my opinion. Every car in SR2 handles like a box, end of story. None of the vehicles have any viable mass, which makes their interaction with the environment artificial and clunky. The fact that you didn't want to bother to learn the driving mechanics in GTAIV isn't a flaw of the game but rather your own personal inability or unwillingness to evolve along with the franchise. The cars handle in GTAIV the way they do because every aspect of the vehicle mass has been factored into the game so that the cars handle accordingly. That isn't a flaw, that's advancement.

The bottom line is that the GTA franchise has evolved but fans like you don't care about refinements and quality; you just want lots of content and variety even if that variety is mundane. SR2 does very little well but merely tosses in plenty to do in a boring, lifeless world with stiff animations, clunky combatand mechanics. GTAIV was all about pulling back the reigns from GTA:SA and making some sweeping improvements in crucial areas, which is precisely what it accomplished. At some point I expect Rockstar will add larger portions of content, rivaling what they offered in SA but for now I'm content with quality over quantity.

I dont care about refinements? Thats just it, I do. I loved the change to the combat controls, I loved the gps system, I loved the ability to replay a mission straight away and I loved the multiplayer. The content in San Andreas and Saints Row 2 is not mundane. It's ****ing fun! Fun. You know, that little reason we play games in the first place. Maybe you've forgotten that. GTA IV was worse not just because it had less content. The missions were just not as entertaining as San Andreas and there's very few side activities that are any fun at all, whereas I could name tons of entertaining things to do in San Andreas and Saints Row 2. The quality was just not up to the standard of San Andreas. Even if San Andreas had just as few side activities as GTA IV it would have been a better game for it's story missions alone. GTA IV improved very little to be truthful and took a crap load of fun away. In terms of what actually matters to me all they made better was what I mentioned at the start of this paragraph, yet I could write an essay on what they've made worse.

I hope you're right and believe me I've tried to tell myself that Rockstars next GTA game will be everything San Andreas was only with the few improvements IV made. But to be honest I'm starting to doubt that. I actually fear they wont even release another GTA game this gen. Its just a good thing then that we've got the Saints Row series to give me my GTA fix that Rockstar isn't going to be providing anytime soon.

I can't believe you guys are arguing over these things.

I can't believe you guys are arguing over these things.

Raikoh_

What's surprising about finding a debate about videogames in a forum for debate about videogames?

[QUOTE="Raikoh_"]

I can't believe you guys are arguing over these things.

CarnageHeart

What's surprising about finding a debate about videogames in a forum for debate about videogames?

Because the topic they chose to argue in has nothing to do with their arguement and if this is a forum for debating about video games, why does every other topic for arguing get locked?

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

[QUOTE="Raikoh_"]

I can't believe you guys are arguing over these things.

What's surprising about finding a debate about videogames in a forum for debate about videogames?

Because the topic they chose to argue in has nothing to do with their arguement and if this is a forum for debating about video games, why does every other topic for arguing get locked?

Arguing about the driving in SR2 doesn't have anything to do with the improvements to be made from SR2 to SR3?muthsera666

Saying better driving is neccessary for SR3 and going back forth with one another over how someone didn't bother to learn to drive in GTA or how SR is a big GTA rip off are two entirely different things.

[QUOTE="muthsera666"]Arguing about the driving in SR2 doesn't have anything to do with the improvements to be made from SR2 to SR3?Raikoh_

Saying better driving is neccessary for SR3 and going back forth with one another over how someone didn't bother to learn to drive in GTA or how SR is a big GTA rip off are two entirely different things.

More weapons. Unique weapons that are hard to get.

.Average White guy voice(yes I'm black and I want that) I went through the game 3 times, once with a black guy, then an Hispanic guy, and then a white guy. It had a British voice, yeah... And I get it's funny and add's more character, but wanted a average white voice.

.More clothing options like skinny jeans, better sneakers, and Zippable hoodies.

.Make the cars look better the cars in the game drove good, but they we're really ugly and toonish.

.The 90's potrayl of gangs, gang slang, and music was a little too corny on the rap ground. If you can't get good current hip-hop, then get good current underground hip-hip.

.fix the character design, the design was very ugly imo.

. It had a great sense of freedom, but I would like a bigger suburban area and more satire. The thing about GTA games have been that the humour was always funny satire. The thing about Saints Row is that it was humour, but you never wanted to sit and listen to even the talk radio stations like GTA.

.Better gang member A.I. The A.I in this game was terrible with your homies, they we're getting trapped behind things, and not to mention they could turn on you. Also I would like to have 5 or more of those guys, also being able to pick their melee and projectile weapons would be great. I made my guys into ninjas, I don't want them carrying around bats, they need KATANAS!

.The option to pick your gang members colors. I hate purple it makes me sick, I would rather have the option to pick my own color than to use another gang's colors. This would also give all of the lead story driven homies different clothing options, rather than being confined to purple.

.Custom SOUNDTRACKS! Nuff said

.Pick your own hideout location, a main hide out choice of your own. And also the option to do more in the house than just get money, weapons, and clothes.